[always3rd]

So I cant even remember the level of excitement I had with Blackberry. Not even waiting for a new device can compare. And its not just about the amazing updates that is exciting but the future that seems like is finally turning into the correct direction from updates, to ecosystem, to future line up of devices.....do you think 2012 is the fulcrum for Rims return to glory?

[anon(4021844)]

Yes.
Fingers crossed.

[anon3396357]

I like what I'm seeing so far, and not just on the surface too. Revealing a trove of functionality in OS 2.0 not only tells us that RIM is working hard... they have a pretty good idea of what they are doing. Everything screams "tight integration" between the PlayBook and the BB smartphone, something which longtime BB users have been enjoying for a while and even taken for granted. Is there ANY tablet+phone combination out there on the market at this moment which is on par with the PB+BB? Also, this reminds us of RIM telling us a while ago that OS 2.0 would be pushed back to February 2012. Plenty of naysayers and doubters flooded the chatter, and even some of the most faithful proponents started to point fingers at RIM. I'm glad they pushed it to February, because it seems like it is well worth the wait.

However, let's not get too excited about this. Take a step back and look at the big picture. What does all these good stuff mean to the average consumer? Being recognized that RIM outs solid products is one thing, but actually making people "want" them is wholly another. We'll find out when BB10 comes around. Meanwhile, just keep in mind that the competitors are not idle - we have the iPad3/iPhone5 allegedly coming out this year, and a slew of Tegra3 and quad-core Android smartphones coming on the scene. One thing that is possible of swaying the market is the fact that consumers are fickle - maybe this will give RIM the break it needs?

[always3rd]

One can hope.....you are indeed correct about the average consumer. To add to that, I would even go out to say your average "tech savvy" consumer is fickle enough to try out the latest and greatest. We all know someone like this....that person that seems to have a new device every 3-6 months. And of course since its marketed as "better" or construed as such because its quad-core or whatever.....it must be better. No matter what Rim does or how they turn around, I dont think they will ever get to the point of trendiness that Apple is. The iPad 3 and iPhone 5 could be EXACT replicas of their predecessors and they wouldnt catch the kind of flack Rim would for a lesser crime. Lets face it, Rim is the red headed stepchild of the smartphone and tablet world. They probably always will be too. However, its my experience that the amount of energy put into bashing and creating the negativity that most consumers NOW have about Rim says that there are those that are fearful of Rims return to the pedestal.

[anon3396357]

One can hope.....you are indeed correct about the average consumer. To add to that, I would even go out to say your average "tech savvy" consumer is fickle enough to try out the latest and greatest. We all know someone like this....that person that seems to have a new device every 3-6 months. And of course since its marketed as "better" or construed as such because its quad-core or whatever.....it must be better. No matter what Rim does or how they turn around, I dont think they will ever get to the point of trendiness that Apple is. The iPad 3 and iPhone 5 could be EXACT replicas of their predecessors and they wouldnt catch the kind of flack Rim would for a lesser crime. Lets face it, Rim is the red headed stepchild of the smartphone and tablet world. They probably always will be too. However, its my experience that the amount of energy put into bashing and creating the negativity that most consumers NOW have about Rim says that there are those that are fearful of Rims return to the pedestal.

Except that Apple caught a lot of flak for putting out the iPhone 4S. Yet consumer still flocked to buy it. This tells us 2 things; that Apple is not "buying" the media, and there will always be special niches in some markets where certain consumer products are somewhat immune to criticism. Remember the movie "Green Lantern"? Critics generally crapped the isht out of it but it turned a tidy $200 million profit. Did the producers "buy" the media and/or "debrand" the movie? Gosh, wild imagination we have these days.

[jamesbondOO7]

I hope so, because they produce very clever products. The problem is that another company also with a fruit name has managed to create a new religion which, like any religion, makes people not only blind to reality, but also followers.
It is very frustrating because again RIM has a very solid, clever approach to their products.

[bluetroll]

i think 2013 will be their year. this year will be spent rebuilding, advertising and innovating.

from what i've seen with qnx with html5 put in automobiles, the integration between qnx in automobiles and blackberry should play a huge role.

should be a fun ride for bb fans!

[palmless]

Except that Apple caught a lot of flak for putting out the iPhone 4S. Yet consumer still flocked to buy it. This tells us 2 things; that Apple is not "buying" the media, and there will always be special niches in some markets where certain consumer products are somewhat immune to criticism. Remember the movie "Green Lantern"? Critics generally crapped the isht out of it but it turned a tidy $200 million profit. Did the producers "buy" the media and/or "debrand" the movie? Gosh, wild imagination we have these days.

Exactly. The media went NUTS on Apple at iPhone 4S launch for three reasons:

1 - 40% Darn you Apple, it was supposed to be called iPhone V, why didn't you change the name?

2 - 20% Darn you Apple, it was supposed to be 4G, why didn't you put in one of the early 4G chipsets and ignore the consequences?

3 - 40% Darn you Apple, it was supposed to look DIFFERENT. Photos of a DIFFERENT LOOKING phone would sell more magazines and draw more page views.

Of course, #1 is irrelevant. When looking at #2, we need to consider that 4G networks aren't built out and the 4G user experience is AWFUL due to 1/2 day battery life, totally unacceptable to Apple customers.

I think #3 became moot when Samsung and everyone else continued to base design on the iPhone 4/4S ideal. Someone recently snarked that Jony Ive leads design at the TWO smartphone makers that capture almost all of the profit in the market.

So the media HATED it.

Users? Looked at it, compared it to all available alternatives, and bought it in record numbers, despite the media.

Product can trump media criticism if the media criticism is media-serving, not customer-serving. RIMM can beat any imagined or real media bias with great solutions and great products.

[rrrebo]

Well, in 2012, the RIMpire will either cover up the small thermal exhaust port, or they'll explode like the Death Star.

[Economist101]

Lets face it, Rim is the red headed stepchild of the smartphone and tablet world. They probably always will be too.

Whereby "always" you mean "since their financials began trending downward." By my count, their media coverage only turned negative when their results went south in 2010 and forward. Remember how the Storm was going to be an iPhone killer? That was late 2008, and though they were no longer perceived as bleeding edge in 2009, sales buoyed the company. But now, sales aren't that great, and neither is the coverage.

However, its my experience that the amount of energy put into bashing and creating the negativity that most consumers NOW have about Rim says that there are those that are fearful of Rims return to the pedestal.

There are people that believe the moon landing was faked and who put a lot of energy into advocating the point. There are also people who believe the Pentagon was hit by a missile, not an airliner. In other words, that people might be fearful of something (a premise I don't accept, but that's me) tells us nothing definitive beyond the fact that they're fearful.

[decypher44]

Honest opinion: NO.

[amazinglygraceless]

RIMM will NEVER return to their former glory. With the steady eroding of North American
market share, the delays in device rollouts, the repackaging of old devices, and the abject
lack of innovation RIMM will hold steady as a bottom tier player. Sad but true.

[Pilchard]

It all depends on them launching the BB10 phones in a timely manner and them being reliable from a hardware and software standpoint. They also need great functionality, to "leapfrog" the competition as Jim B indicated.

But as they aren't coming until towards the end of the year I think, as one poster says above, 2013 is more likely to be the year of the RIMpire rather than 2012.

[xandermac]

New devices aren't due until late 2012, so 2013 might be their year.

[always3rd]

There are people that believe the moon landing was faked and who put a lot of energy into advocating the point. There are also people who believe the Pentagon was hit by a missile, not an airliner. In other words, that people might be fearful of something (a premise I don't accept, but that's me) tells us nothing definitive beyond the fact that they're fearful.

I am actually meaning that its more like a "kick em while theyre down" kind of thing. I understand that business is business and the technology industry is extremely cutthroat. I for one believe that both my phone and tablet are equally on par with anything on the market today; ability wise. And its the fact of that ability by the first, and foremost in my opinion, manufacturer and developer of personal devices is what "scares" the competition. Not per se by the actual companies themselves but those that subscribe to them.

[NJPhilliesPhan]

In the US the new products may help slow the bleeding market share. Android and Apple have a strangle hold on the market and BB will find it hard even with QNX to rise again. Blackberry is no longer considered cool and that alone will make people look elsewhere.

[FlashFlare11]

RIMM will NEVER return to their former glory. With the steady eroding of North American
market share, the delays in device rollouts, the repackaging of old devices, and the abject
lack of innovation RIMM will hold steady as a bottom tier player. Sad but true.

I agree with your first statement. The smartphone market is now much larger than it was in RIM's glory days. Those days won't be back, at least, not to that scale.

However, what do you mean by "...the repackaging of old devices"? BlackBerry 7 is a huge improvement over previous iterations. The competition isn't exactly putting out brand new OSs and phone designs every year either (Apple).

The claim of a lack of innovation is absurd. BlackBerry Bridge is genius. Instead of paying extra for a data or tethering plan, RIM gave BlackBerry phone and tablet owners an option which let's them save a lot of money in the long run.

The PlayBook screams innovation. It's a really enjoyable tablet right out of the box. Simply navigating around the device is fun and is done in a way none of the other competitors did before (TouchPad came after the PB).

I honestly don't believe 2012 will be the year of the RIMpire, because I think it's going to be 2013. But I do believe we BlackBerry lovers will have a lot to brag about over the year, however, it'll just take a while to catch on to the average consumers.

RIM is on its way up, and nothing would make me happier to see RIM dominate again!

[amazinglygraceless]

I agree with your first statement. The smartphone market is now much larger than it was in RIM's glory days. Those days won't be back, at least, not to that scale.

However, what do you mean by "...the repackaging of old devices"? BlackBerry 7 is a huge improvement over previous iterations. The competition isn't exactly putting out brand new OSs and phone designs every year either (Apple).

OS7 is exactly that. An operating system. I am talking about actual devices. Devices
that on balance are not much removed from what preceded them.

The claim of a lack of innovation is absurd. BlackBerry Bridge is genius. Instead of paying extra for a data or tethering plan, RIM gave BlackBerry phone and tablet owners an option which let's them save a lot of money in the long run.

Again, this is a software thing and is ultimately meaningless to the average user.

The PlayBook screams innovation.

This is quite a stretch. It is a tablet and a middling one at best. The Playbook barely
whispers innovation.

I am not, never have been and never will be a RIMM basher, but reality does not paint
a rosy picture for them going forward. They will do very well in the emerging markets.
Not so much in North America.

[sleepngbear]

Hmmmm ... this thread too has taken a sudden turn toward the shallow and the pedantic. Shame.

"...a software thing and meaningless to the average consumer"??? The whole user experience is about how well the hardware and software are integrated. The bridge is a little-recognized feature that nobody else has, and that most BB and PB owners find quite useful and beneficial. WTF are you talking about?

[anon(757282)]

Unfortunately the OP and title may seek hopeful concurrence, but that is also a big juicy target for the other camp that hangs around these here parts. Seems like wherever these forums begin, they eventually get to the "us vs them" arguments with the facts and opinions de joure. This forum post subject kind of invites that.

It will be interesting to see the new sales numbers with the advertised pricing, new marketing, and modest upturn in opinion about RIM products and developments.

[chunt69]

I hope its a good year, the recent developments have made me want a playbook to go alongside my 9900 that's for sure! I think its very encouraging but rim need to raise there marketing and awareness game- so many good new features on os 7 and the playbook but most people have no idea about them :-(

[grahamf]

I just hope it happens before the end of the world.

[grahamf]

OS7 is exactly that. An operating system. I am talking about actual devices. Devices
that on balance are not much removed from what preceded them..

And how did you come to that conclusion? Glancing at product pictures isn't a very good way to compare the differences between the generations.

[Moonbase0ne]

They have no new phones nor a new tablet coming out until later in the year. Meanwhile, Samsung, Nokia, HTC, SONY, LG, and just about everyone are showing off something new, and in some cases exciting, NOW. Rumor has it that Apple plans to release the next iPad sometime in March and the next iPhone either the usual June-ish release date or maybe later on like the iPhone 4S. All RIM has that's really exciting is OS 2.0. And that's ink really exciting to those who are excited about RIM/Play Book.

Doesn't look like 2012 will be RIM's year but it looks good for "just about" everyone else.


War Is All We Know

[BEARD GANG]

Hopefully... But I doubt it