Do you believe RIM must consider their platform altogether?

Hello,

Before continuing to read please understand that this thread serves only for the sole purpose of attracting civilized discussion and is not meant to be a rant or anything similar in that direction. I am conducting personal research on this matter and would like to know what loyal CrackBerry.com members think about the issue. Keep it clean, that is all I am asking. Thank you.

RIM have built a solid base on which they currently are standing and this base was made possible after a long and complex process of expertise and dedication. To us, this base is BlackBerry Internet Service, (BlackBerry Enterprise Server) and the Network Operations Center combined. To RIM it is what they have invested more than money in and became popular with the associated services of this base. I am of course talking about push e-mail and to a lesser extent BlackBerry Messenger.

Understandably nothing is forever and there is always an end to something. I'm not one to speculate the fall of RIM and rise of competitors, but I am one to consider whether or not this base RIM have built for many years is any more stable as it was back then. Maybe we, the consumers, have needs exceeding the capabilities of what RIM is standing on and in order for RIM to satisfy our needs, they might need to abandon this very base I am talking about -- or at the very least, do something to support the heavy weight our needs put on it.

Do you believe RIM must consider their platform altogether?

With this question I am asking you, whether or not you want RIM to continue with BlackBerry, but abandon its very reason it became popular in the first place. Imagine the possibility to use a BlackBerry without a dedicated data plan, no fear of outages, no restrictions of any kind. As if a BlackBerry was like any other smartphone. However, also imagine a BlackBerry without push e-mail or BlackBerry Messenger and no extra security.

Would you be happy with a BlackBerry that you could use just like any other smartphone? Please tell me your thoughts below. Thank you.

- afropoika

Honestly I have to say there are some things I really think that RIM could improve, but I can live with them. RIM is not the best not even close, but they are not the worse.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Myself, I like the current OS and the current infrastructure. Do I think programmers should have more access to the APIs, yes. But at what cost. I don't think being able to circumvent what IT departments have implemented as secure devices should be bypassed. Do I think customization should be allowed, absolutely. As long as the devices remain secure I say go for it.

For the using a BB without a dedicated data plan, that is carrier dependent. I like the fact that RIM handles the data side of email, do NOT change this.

For those wanting to use the device strictly as a PDA, sure thing. The device should be able to be set as a PDA only with "0" data access, but if any data is needed then require the BB Data plan.

Research in Motion continues to build on success. I am confidant they will continue to improve the product, while not compromising the core values that put them on top.

I like that RIM caters to business use, it's becoming more of a niche market though. There are plenty of other Smartphones/ Operating systems out there that are great general use systems, why should RIM just be another one?
BUT, giving RIM credit for what they are, they also need to get up to speed by offering an outstanding Web Browser and we really should be able to download BIG files with the e-mail service, at least on the high end devices.
I also like the fact that RIM still let's us back up everything through their Desktop software to our personal computer. Using over air back up by Google, and others that data mine for advertising doesn't give me a warm, fuzzy feeling. I'm glad RIM has BES for large business, even though I don't use it.
As far as Devices/ Operating systems, there has been plenty of rants about making it simpler and easier, but I like the fact that Blackberrys are so customizable, I wouldn't want to see that change. The i-phone has a fantastic simple, elegant OS, I invite all that think the Blackberry OS has too many options, ect to get an i-phone.

Mostly this thread is directed towards those, who jump ship (of course they can just as well be trolling). I am confident the BlackBerry platform is a good one, but recently has proven not to be as stable as many would like it to be. Given that most professionals use BlackBerry, even the slightest outage can be harmful to their business.

I don't think they need to abandoned the things that have made them a good company with good products. Just add to it and improve, that's all I want.

Considering the only disadvantage of RIM's set up to me is the rare downtime, the advantages easily outweigh it:

Pros
- Efficient use of battery power with push technology (not having to poll multiple e-mail servers, etc...), especially when coming from multiple sources
- BBM
- [Proxy based internet browsing in the future browser that will help improve speeds]
- Lower data usage (unlimited data plans are rare in Canada)

Cons
- BIS outages
- Truncated e-mail (never a factor for me)

Originally Posted by afropoika

Mostly this thread is directed towards those, who jump ship (of course they can just as well be trolling). I am confident the BlackBerry platform is a good one, but recently has proven not to be as stable as many would like it to be. Given that most professionals use BlackBerry, even the slightest outage can be harmful to their business.

This is a public forum, it is by definition, directed at everybody.

We all know the impact of success, it attracts detractors. The results continue to speak for itself.

You make a good point about reliability. The reliability is so good, it makes international headline news when it hiccoughs. Research in Motion has even delayed scheduled maintenance downtime in times of natural disaster, when the first responders were counting on them.

Even 99.99% uptime can be improved on. It does not take a Waterloo Computer Science degree to acknowledge the value of redundant and geographly diverse NOC.

Their network helps us conserve battery power. Yes, sometimes, not very often, there is an outage.

But looked at it another way, running out of battery power is another form of outage that you have to deal with daily. I much prefer having great battery life without worrying daily about getting stuck without power and having to ration my usage.

I think, if they are not, they should be considering an overhaul of their UI. I loved it when I got my curve 8330 a ways back, but now am finding it lacking behind other available smartphone UIs. They should be able to make it a little smoother, cleaner, and usable without sacrificing all their strengths. I know most people think that "sleek" and things of that nature are reserved for the consumer market, but there is no reason a business user should have to deal with an outdated UI.
Functionally, they need to work on their browsing experience. Even though internet is not a priority of mine, the superior performance in this realm for the Droid made it a tough decision to return to the Blackberry.
All that being said, I love what RIM is doing. It seems like they put a lot of the functionality and solid use-ability higher in their priorities than some others. Their email experience is the stuff of legends. The inbox UI may not be pretty, but it does everything I want it to do. Android looks great and navigates wonderfully through the folders, but lacks some features that I very much need.

So do I think they need to reconsider their whole platform? I can't say. I don't know much about the underlying (core) platform, but I would like to see them make some serious "ground up" changes to their UI. As someone on this board mentioned the other day, it's a tough endeavor. There are a lot of die-hard addicts that will not want to see UI changes. But I think, if done right, they will attract far more users than they will lose.

All my own opinions, of course.

-Randy

Originally Posted by rlevine

As someone on this board mentioned the other day, it's a tough endeavor. There are a lot of die-hard addicts that will not want to see UI changes.

-Randy

And this is EXACTLY the biggest problem RIM faces, I think. How to advance the OS and UI to attract new people while not alienating their long-time customers? This is why I highly doubt we're going to see a sudden change. RIM is going to move slowly with this progression. Personally, the UI is great for me except for a few minor complaints. If they were to just streamline what they have a bit I'd be a happy camper.

And you can't use the iPhone, Android phones, or anything else as a basis for how successful this transition would be. All the others are new and started out pretty much the way they are. It's much easier to introduce your first OS as "yours" and have people adapt to it rather than having people RE-adapt to something. RIM doesn't have that advantage of being able to just toss out a completely new OS and say "here ya go, this is our OS" because it's NOT their OS.

Originally Posted by afropoika

Mostly this thread is directed towards those, who jump ship (of course they can just as well be trolling). I am confident the BlackBerry platform is a good one, but recently has proven not to be as stable as many would like it to be. Given that most professionals use BlackBerry, even the slightest outage can be harmful to their business.

What do you think about RIM having 2 devises? One for the Business professionals that would continue on the path of current OS and phone, and then On e for media hungry consumers. I would have something between an android and apple iphone Os. With better web and integrated social networking like Moto Blur.

I think a lot of people don't understand how much of a pyramid design the whole BB experience is really built on. I've always said that if you build a channelized and purpose built device with non-dynamic roots, sooner or later, it'll backfire on you. People's needs change constantly and when someone sees something new or a new way of doing things, they want that same capability. The last thing you want is to tell them they can't do it because of the way their existing platform works. Unlimited email sizes?... sorry, can't be done... RIM has a hardset limitation they won't remove. Full HTML browsing experience as close as possible to your PC experience on the go so you don't need to lug a heavy device along... can't be done by RIM. It's seems to be a constant compromise with RIM on what most tech savvy users want. I'm not saying everything is perfect somewhere else, far from it, but as you look at other platforms, the limitations are lesser. RIM cannot afford to have a non-diverse and non-dynamic platform in their park. Today's needs far surpass what RIM was good at in the 90's. LTE will allow 2-5MB speeds at release time with 50MB already tested and no longer just theoretical on paper. Times are moving fast and if you can't change with them, you'll be left in the dust. Market saturation is no longer a comfort they can afford to have. Sooner or later that buffer will get smaller and smaller. They need to change and they need to change fast. They need to stop making several different handsets that do the same thing they did 2 years ago with no drastic improvement. Pong (Brickbreaker) is gone! 3D gaming is where it's at for those that want it. Business types and consumers alike believe it or not. The time is here where all consumers are no longer "happy and content" with limitations and compromizes. You don't hit home runs with compromizes and you don't set a market trend with compromizes. You do it by building an amazing product that everyone will do ANYTHING to get their hands on it. This is why the Storm was such a big expectation from RIM and everyone was dying to get their hands on one when it released. Unfortunately for RIM, it was a flop from certain aspects, despite how many they say they sold. You cannot tease people with a product that should be amazing and then put a POS in their hand and blame its quality on the fact that your carrier contract forced you to release it early and you didn't really have enough time to produce the product you were contracted to build. Don't toot your own horn if you can't produce... I believe that's referred to as "Bullisht walks...".


Now is really the last time RIM has to turn their company around. They know it because now more then ever their workforce is pushed and overworked and it's a constant rush rush to get things done. Unfortunately for them, these are the tell signs of procrastination at its best. They waited too long and now are in panic mode. Despite what their stock and bottom line figures are, if you know how to read between the lines, you'll see RIM is trying very hard to buy time because of the walled garden they have built their platform to be. The whole "Bandwidth Conservation" speech from Mike last month is nothing more then a tactic to justify the BB platform's lacking abilities to not trucate email and to not limit your web M/M capabilities. "Oh, our handsets don't do that because we're concious about your bandwidth usage." :rolleyes: Ya, ok... fill my cup back up with some of that warm sugarless koolaid please Mike.

Clock's ticking guys...

Originally Posted by philbert81

What do you think about RIM having 2 devises? One for the Business professionals that would continue on the path of current OS and phone, and then On e for media hungry consumers. I would have something between an android and apple iphone Os. With better web and integrated social networking like Moto Blur.

Despite what hardcore BB campers would have you believe, business people ARE media hungry as well. Remember how a couple of years ago self-respecting companies thought Facebook and YouTube were silly teenage social sites. Guess what... fast forward to today and those same companies have Facebook, Twitter, YouTube channels, etc. sites/accounts that they use to share their services and products with their "would be" customers out anywhere in the world.

Trust me guys... EVERYONE wants a dynamic device with unlimited capabilities, they just don't want to admit it because they feel the need to justify the shortcomings of the platform they are currently using, regardless of what that platform is.

Originally Posted by JRSCCivic98

Trust me guys... EVERYONE wants a dynamic device with unlimited capabilities, they just don't want to admit it because they feel the need to justify the shortcomings of the platform they are currently using, regardless of what that platform is.

That's a rather bold statement, Civic. ;P

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Well it is kind of true. Civic made a very good point that a lot of businesses who laughed at twitter and facebook as a kiddie fad maybe a year or 2 ago are now using them to gain business and reach out to customers.

Times change, and so do people. Even the hardcore businessman is only a businessman on the job, they still have a life outside of work where entertainment on phones is becoming a big sector.

And while RIM shouldnt alienate their core base, but they are going to HAVE to eventually to improve their OS. It cant sit where it is for even another 5 years because other platforms will be way too advanced by then.

I never understood why they dont just do a core platform how it is, and then a consumer version. I get that supporting 2 OSs is difficult, but if, as people say around here, the hardcore users simply dont care about browsing or apps then they wont care if the devs do it for the consumer side. If thats not true, then it goes to show that even the hardcore business user is changing and want to do more with their phones too. There's only 2 sides of the argument, theres no 3rd side- either businessmen are changing and want more, or they dont and a consumer OS wouldnt bother then with less developing for their OS.

Hypothetically, if RIM were to develop a UI similar to the likes of WebOS, Android, iPhone, etc..., along side their current "business" OS, there'd be a couple problems:

- Most likely it would require a touch screen, as navigation is more linear with a trackpad. Imagine using Windows without a mouse. Obviously it's very possible to navigate the UI, but it's built with a mouse taken into consideration.
- More graphics require a faster processor, something BlackBerrys aren't exactly known for. The current OS simply doesn't rely on a faster processor as much as a Nexus One does.
- It's not just RIM that has to maintain two different OS'. App developers would also face the same challenge.

In the end, why bother creating another iClone if that segment of the market already has fierce competition? Instead, RIM could focus their efforts on their segment of the consumer market that they remain virtually dominant in. That segment of the market includes consumers that may prefer keyboards, may not like using touchscreen devices, may like plain and simple UIs, may not care much for browsing, may not obsess over the internal hardware of a phone, may just want a devices made for communication above all else, etc... They're out there, because if they weren't, no consumer would choose to use a BlackBerry (key word, "choose").

Let the BB's alone. Don't fix what is not broken.

Originally Posted by JRSCCivic98

Trust me guys... EVERYONE wants a dynamic device with unlimited capabilities, they just don't want to admit it because they feel the need to justify the shortcomings of the platform they are currently using, regardless of what that platform is.

Exactly. It's like a football team that says "No, we don't need better wide receivers, the ones we have are good enough". And then they go out a get a really good. At first they didn't want to admit their shortcomings. It's like how a lot of BB users call something a "toy" or say "blackberries are for grown ups" and etc... They are justifying the fact that their platform has a bunch of shortcomings by saying the other stuff is irrelevant and serious users don't need that stuff. That's a bunch of bull.

If RIM was to really update the OS and keep everything it does well and combine that with a device that has multimedia features like the iPhone on a slick UI, BB users will gush all over this site about how great is it when before they were saying "RIM doesn't need to fix anything".

Originally Posted by scorpiodsu

If RIM was to really update the OS and keep everything it does well and combine that with a device that has multimedia features like the iPhone on a slick UI, BB users will gush all over this site about how great is it when before they were saying "RIM doesn't need to fix anything".

More baseless and delusional assumptions...

Originally Posted by Masahiro

More baseless and delusional assumptions...

How can you even argue that point?

Originally Posted by TheOne01

How can you even argue that point?

You're right. I can't. I concede that I am a hypocrite that is lying about my personal preference for the BBOS and secretly wish for BlackBerrys to become just like an iClone.

Originally Posted by Masahiro

That's a rather bold statement, Civic. ;P

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

I LIKE THAT IN A FORUM MEMBER.