04-05-10 12:23 PM
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  1. spaz1234's Avatar
    Hello Exactly!!!

    If he recieved a replacement than he has nothing to ***** about. Since he is dodging the question and refuses to give anymore details i am thinking he just likes to ***** about nothing.

    Maybe he should be more careful with his phone in the future and he wont lose it.
    You seem to be missing the point. It isn't about whether or not they have given me a new phone or a old phone, or whatever... The ISSUE the CRUX the KEY, is whether or not they are knowingly engaging in the transfer of property from one owner to another without the consent of those owners. Just because I found out and they gave me a new phone, does not mean that:

    1. they will change the practice
    2. this isn't happening to a bunch of other people
    08-26-08 11:09 AM
  2. spaz1234's Avatar
    Like I said though, your CARRIER would not sell it. I see that you're on Tmobile. Damn near every TMobile store you see is privately owned by someone else who sells TMobile products and compatible devices. Your CARRIER wouldn't do that to you. Joe Shmo who owns his own "Wireless Warehouse" will do whatever he wants.
    The carrier has a record of receiving my phone at their warehouse and then a record of shipping it out to someone else. Please see my original post regarding record of receipt and record of re-shipment.
    08-26-08 11:10 AM
  3. harrisondisc's Avatar
    The carrier has a record of receiving my phone at their warehouse and then a record of shipping it out to someone else. Please see my original post regarding record of receipt and record of re-shipment.
    OK, ok, I see what you mean....the problem with all of it (as others have said) is that you don't say how you had your "lost phone" issue resolved. Did you claim it with Insurance? Did the carrier feel your pain and ship YOU a refurb as a replacement (Oh the irony...) or did you just buy another damn phone? It only matters to the rest of us because you're trying to say that you got ripped off somehow. We don't see it. I will tell you that if someone brought the phone into a store and the store didn't look it up to see that it at one point belonged to you so they could see what you wanted to do with it, then that's kinda weak. I know I would have done that.
    08-26-08 11:17 AM
  4. spaz1234's Avatar
    OK, ok, I see what you mean....the problem with all of it (as others have said) is that you don't say how you had your "lost phone" issue resolved. Did you claim it with Insurance? Did the carrier feel your pain and ship YOU a refurb as a replacement (Oh the irony...) or did you just buy another damn phone? It only matters to the rest of us because you're trying to say that you got ripped off somehow. We don't see it. I will tell you that if someone brought the phone into a store and the store didn't look it up to see that it at one point belonged to you so they could see what you wanted to do with it, then that's kinda weak. I know I would have done that.
    Whether or not my carrier provided me with another phone after I revealed this to them is beside the point, my questions are: is this a mistake? is this a general practice? Has anyone else out there had a similar experience?
    08-26-08 11:29 AM
  5. spaz1234's Avatar
    Did you receive a replacement? Did you get a discount? details mean everything!!! And selling a lost phone is very different from selling a stolen phone!

    And also: GSM carriers are supposed to disable the IMEI, thus disabling the entire phone. CDMA carriers (Verizon, alltel, and the like) don't use SIMs. So they have to disable the entire phone to prevent "unauthorized usage".
    Maybe the carrier forgot to disable the IMEI. If that is the case, then them re-issuing my phone is just a big mistake. Not sure... does anyone else have comments along those lines?
    08-26-08 11:33 AM
  6. harrisondisc's Avatar
    Whether or not my carrier provided me with another phone after I revealed this to them is beside the point, my questions are: is this a mistake? is this a general practice? Has anyone else out there had a similar experience?

    It just sounds like a mistake. And to simply answer the question you posted...NO. They don't resell lost or stolen blackberries.
    08-26-08 11:55 AM
  7. KINetics's Avatar
    Whether or not my carrier provided me with another phone after I revealed this to them is beside the point, my questions are: is this a mistake? is this a general practice? Has anyone else out there had a similar experience?
    But that is the point. If they provided you a phone, especially if it was the same model as the one you lost, then they basically "bought" your lost phone and ate the cost of issuing you a new phone. The chances of them recouping that cost was minimal, however, it so happened that the phone was somehow turned back in at which point, it's the property of T-mobile.

    It's just like if you had insurance on a phone. Lost it, and the insurance company issuing you a new phone. Let's say a month down the line, you found your phone because it was just misplaced. Per the terms and conditions of your policy with the insurance company, you are to return the phone you claimed as lost to them. If you don't, it's considered fraud.

    Also, US GSM carriers don't blacklist IEMI's. So yeah, it's general practice.
    08-26-08 01:39 PM
  8. hvnlybodies's Avatar
    You seem to be missing the point. It isn't about whether or not they have given me a new phone or a old phone, or whatever... The ISSUE the CRUX the KEY, is whether or not they are knowingly engaging in the transfer of property from one owner to another without the consent of those owners. Just because I found out and they gave me a new phone, does not mean that:

    1. they will change the practice
    2. this isn't happening to a bunch of other people
    Actually it does matter. If you replace your phone lost/stolen and they send you a replacement at no cost to you then the new phone becomes you phone and the old phone becaomes the property of the company.
    08-26-08 01:49 PM
  9. hvnlybodies's Avatar
    Oh an I hate to point this out but the fact is that there are plenty of "sketchy" things going on in the world, especially the business world, just because its not nice or ethical doesnt mean it is illegal.
    08-26-08 01:50 PM
  10. dhall13's Avatar
    i tend to agree with KINetics "If they provided you a phone, especially if it was the same model as the one you lost, then they basically "bought" your lost phone and ate the cost of issuing you a new phone. The chances of them recouping that cost was minimal, however, it so happened that the phone was somehow turned back in at which point, it's the property of T-mobile.", It's just like if you had insurance on a phone. Lost it, and the insurance company issuing you a new phone. Let's say a month down the line, you found your phone because it was just misplaced. Per the terms and conditions of your policy with the insurance company, you are to return the phone you claimed as lost to them. If you don't, it's considered fraud." and with hvnlybodies's "Actually it does matter. If you replace your phone lost/stolen and they send you a replacement at no cost to you then the new phone becomes you phone and the old phone becaomes the property of the company."

    the original question that was asked way back in the beginning by jenaywins is very valid as to whether you received any discount on a new phone or did they issue you a refurb to keep you as a customer. if they did either, give you a discount or a refurb, then consider that payment for the lost phone and there luck for getting it sent into them to reuse.

    this is funny to read though, keep it up. i enjoying hearing right/wrong opinions.

    my 2 cents.
    08-26-08 03:00 PM
  11. coolbrett007's Avatar
    If someone brought you a phone they found, would you sell it or try to return it?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-27-08 12:03 AM
  12. exelant's Avatar
    Right. If the op paid full price for a new device, then the carrier in fact sold stolen property. They had a respsonsibility to return the op's property to him. But if the company replaced the device, it then becomes the company's property.

    If you paid full price for a new one and they didn't tell you they recovered your property, take them to small claims court. You will win and recover expenses - including what you paid for a berry.

    But if they paid for a new berry, then they have a right to recover their loss. I think it is pretty straightforward, and it all depends on what the OP received from the company. Neither party should be able to "double dip."

    Did I mention my middle name is Soloman?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-27-08 07:02 AM
  13. lnichols's Avatar
    If the carrier gave you a replacement phone at no cost, or at a discount, then what did they do wrong? If they came back to you a few weeks after getting the replacment and said "We found your phone, you need to pay us to ship it to you and you need pay to ship the replacement back within X days or we will turn off the replacement." what would you say to that. If your phone comes in and they have in their records that you have a working replacement from them then the phone is theirs, and sending it out as a refurb is perfectly acceptable IMHO. They made things right with you and now are just trying to recoup money that they may have lost trying to help you out with you losing your phone.

    This is a based on a lot of assumptions since you aren't providing details, but it almost sounds like you think that they should give you a replacement and give you the lost one back if they find it so you have two phones.
    08-27-08 12:04 PM
  14. spaz1234's Avatar
    Again, I would emphasis that this discussion is not about whether or not my Service Provider made things right with me, they did but, this discussion it is more about whether or not they are engaged in a practice that is a bit shady.

    If you call them and register with them that your property specific to serial number / IMEI is missing and they find it and re-issue it they are engaging in what is considered a transfer of property from one owner to another. At the same time, their systems are fully capable of being modified to prevent such an occurrence.

    Don't get hung up on whether or not they have made things right with me, one user (they have and I am happy that they have), but that is because I investigated the whereabouts of my property to find that they had given it to someone else without my knowledge.

    Making 1 wrong right is something but continuing to "mistakenly" commit a wrong when it is completely avoidable is another.

    We should all get hung up on the idea that there might be thousands of users out there that haven't had things made right.

    Has anyone else had this happen to them? Has anyone else ever tried to track down a Blackberry that they had lost?
    Last edited by spaz1234; 08-27-08 at 12:12 PM. Reason: typo
    08-27-08 12:11 PM
  15. jenaywins's Avatar
    Right. If the op paid full price for a new device, then the carrier in fact sold stolen property. They had a respsonsibility to return the op's property to him. But if the company replaced the device, it then becomes the company's property.

    If you paid full price for a new one and they didn't tell you they recovered your property, take them to small claims court. You will win and recover expenses - including what you paid for a berry.

    But if they paid for a new berry, then they have a right to recover their loss. I think it is pretty straightforward, and it all depends on what the OP received from the company. Neither party should be able to "double dip."

    Did I mention my middle name is Soloman?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    My point exactly exelant.
    08-27-08 12:19 PM
  16. LiliC's Avatar
    Put that Find my blackberry program on your phone so you can find it if you ever lose it again.

    I agree, if the company provided you with a replacement, your lost one is no longer yours.

    Just my 2 cents.
    08-27-08 12:32 PM
  17. spaz1234's Avatar
    Put that Find my blackberry program on your phone so you can find it if you ever lose it again.

    I agree, if the company provided you with a replacement, your lost one is no longer yours.

    Just my 2 cents.
    Umm... again, I restate that this discussion is not about whether or not they give me another phone. Have they given new phones to everyone else that hasn't found out that their phones have been knowingly transferred to someone else???????????

    Some of the posts are very hung up over whether or not the provider has made things right with me... they have to some degree made things right, but that is not what this discussion is about. PLEASE!!! Has this happened to anyone else?
    08-27-08 12:38 PM
  18. holvey's Avatar
    This is just a guess, (an goes along with others), but as soon as they issued you a new phone, whether they gave you a deal or not, the IMEI is no longer tagged to your account unless you added a phone to your existing account.

    Look at it from T-mobiles perspective... You reported it as lost, they gave you a new phone. What would you have done if T-mobile called you up and said "we have found your old phone, so you have options, you can keep your current phone, or you can give us back your new phone, and take back your old phone...without it being refurbished.

    One can argue that they need to give you this option, but if I lost my phone, and my carrier gave me a deal on a new one, then they found my old phone, I wouldn't want it back.
    08-27-08 12:42 PM
  19. spaz1234's Avatar
    This is just a guess, (an goes along with others), but as soon as they issued you a new phone, whether they gave you a deal or not, the IMEI is no longer tagged to your account unless you added a phone to your existing account.

    Look at it from T-mobiles perspective... You reported it as lost, they gave you a new phone. What would you have done if T-mobile called you up and said "we have found your old phone, so you have options, you can keep your current phone, or you can give us back your new phone, and take back your old phone...without it being refurbished.

    One can argue that they need to give you this option, but if I lost my phone, and my carrier gave me a deal on a new one, then they found my old phone, I wouldn't want it back.

    Nooo... They only gave me a new phone after I found out they had found mine and re-issued it to someone else. Even then I had to BEG them and tell them I was upset they had found my phone and given it to someone else. I found out someone else had it 5 months after I lost it. Only after I begged them to give me another did they actually bend and issue me a replacement for the one that they had found and re-issued.
    Last edited by spaz1234; 08-27-08 at 12:46 PM. Reason: added some stuff
    08-27-08 12:45 PM
  20. spaz1234's Avatar
    This is just a guess, (an goes along with others), but as soon as they issued you a new phone, whether they gave you a deal or not, the IMEI is no longer tagged to your account unless you added a phone to your existing account.

    Look at it from T-mobiles perspective... You reported it as lost, they gave you a new phone. What would you have done if T-mobile called you up and said "we have found your old phone, so you have options, you can keep your current phone, or you can give us back your new phone, and take back your old phone...without it being refurbished.

    One can argue that they need to give you this option, but if I lost my phone, and my carrier gave me a deal on a new one, then they found my old phone, I wouldn't want it back.
    I agree on the tagged to my account part, but as long as you report to them that you lost a specific IMEI, if that IMEI shows back up in their inventory, it is ethical for them to notify you that they have it. I would like to differentiate an IMEI showing up in their inventory versus an IMEI showing up on their network. If it shows up on their network it doesn't mean much, if it shows up in their inventory then it means a lot.
    08-27-08 12:49 PM
  21. holvey's Avatar
    Nooo... They only gave me a new phone after I found out they had found mine and re-issued it to someone else. Even then I had to BEG them and tell them I was upset they had found my phone and given it to someone else. I found out someone else had it 5 months after I lost it. Only after I begged them to give me another did they actually bend and issue me a replacement for the one that they had found and re-issued.
    Now we are getting somewhere. I was under the impression that you...

    lost your phone, then went to t-mobile and got a replacement, then they found your phone, then sold it as a refurb.

    Now, I would suggest going to some consumer advocacy group (BBB, Consumer reports...) and telling them about your experience. You are straight with T-mobile, since you accepted a replacement phone. Were you using T-mobile for phone service for the 5 months before you got your replacement phone? (I am assuming you used your old phone or something)

    It is a shame that they did this, but all you can really do now is get it to the attention of T-mobile and consumers
    08-27-08 01:14 PM
  22. jenaywins's Avatar
    Now we are getting somewhere. I was under the impression that you...

    lost your phone, then went to t-mobile and got a replacement, then they found your phone, then sold it as a refurb.
    As was I. Had the OP simply provided more detail initially, this would have been a totally different situation in my eyes.... For the carrier to only give the OP a replacement because they essentially were caught up doing something unethical is unacceptable.
    08-27-08 01:21 PM
  23. hvnlybodies's Avatar
    As was I. Had the OP simply provided more detail initially, this would have been a totally different situation in my eyes.... For the carrier to only give the OP a replacement because they essentially were caught up doing something unethical is unacceptable.

    EXACTLY! I have read some rather interesting posts on here in general. Its important to give all the information you have in order to make sure we can assist or give our opinion. I understand that your questions was wether or not it was legal or ethical...OUR collective point was not that they had made things right with you but rather ONCE they made things right with you they no longer had any LEGAL obligation since we all thought you had been given a replacement.

    Now, that after all this time we understand the ENTIRE story, you can see that everyone came to understand your point. That being that you were only given a replacement AFTER you found out they had reburbed your phone and sold it to someone else...the time line of things is very important.
    08-27-08 01:45 PM
  24. jenaywins's Avatar
    Hvnly, you are right on point. I'm not exactly sure why the OP had such a problem with providing all information about his situation... It isn't as if anyone here was asking him to cosign on a mortgage for us..

    IMHO, this is the same as when people need help troubleshooting... When you don't provide all information and details of the circumstance, there is nothing anyone can do to help.
    08-27-08 01:53 PM
  25. hvnlybodies's Avatar
    Oh...but I could use a co-signer....any takers??
    08-27-08 02:06 PM
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