04-05-10 11:23 AM
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  1. spaz1234's Avatar
    SEND A PIN MESSAGE TO A DEVICE YOU LOST AND FIND OUT!!!

    Is this Legal?

    1. My carrier sells me a BB
    2. I report the BB to the carrier as "Lost or Stolen"
    3. My carrier receives BB at one of their facilities
    4. My carrier re-issues BB to another customer
    5. I send PIN message to phone saying it is my phone
    6. Other customer calls me to tell me carrier sent it to him as re-furb
    7. I report to my carrier that they re-sold my phone after I reported it to them as "Lost or Stolen"
    8. I call carrier and find out that steps 3 and 4 occurred.

    Send a PIN message to a device that you might have lost!!! Find out if your own carrier sold it!!!
    08-26-08 09:19 AM
  2. nick125's Avatar
    This doesn't sound ethical to me, let alone legal. Did you file a claim on your insurance by any chance?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    08-26-08 09:22 AM
  3. jenaywins's Avatar
    I would assume that this is legal, seeing as your carrier did it. Moral? Absolutely not. Legal? Most likely.
    08-26-08 09:22 AM
  4. spaz1234's Avatar
    no I did not have insurance
    08-26-08 09:23 AM
  5. jenaywins's Avatar
    Also, you aren't very specific as to what even really happened. Did you lose your phone? Was it stolen? How did your carrier get it back? Did you pay full retail for a new phone?
    08-26-08 09:25 AM
  6. spaz1234's Avatar
    I did lose the phone, but the specific details aren't needed to find out if this is a common occurrence. I reported it to them as "Lost or Stolen" the very next day.
    08-26-08 09:29 AM
  7. jenaywins's Avatar
    Actually, yes, specific details are needed. Your carrier reselling a LOST device is very different from reselling a STOLEN device. Hence, why I asked.
    08-26-08 09:31 AM
  8. ScandaLeX's Avatar
    Based on what the OP is saying, if the phone was reported lost/stolen, then why wasnt s/he contacted that there phone was found/turned in?

    As far as the carrier sending out phones that have been returned for whatever reason, sending them out as refurbs is very common; thats how they becone refurbs in the first place. But I didnt think lost/stolen fell under the category of reasons for refurbing the phone.

    At best, the rightful owner should have been contacted. - thats my opinion.
    08-26-08 09:31 AM
  9. spaz1234's Avatar
    Not if you report to them that it was lost... there is no difference, they re-sold my property while they had all the information available to them to know it was mine.
    08-26-08 09:32 AM
  10. jenaywins's Avatar
    Based on what the OP is saying, if the phone was reported lost/stolen, then why wasnt s/he contacted that there phone was found/turned in?

    As far as the carrier sending out phones that have been returned for whatever reason, sending them out as refurbs is very common; thats how they becone refurbs in the first place. But I didnt think lost/stolen fell under the category of reasons for refurbing the phone.

    At best, the rightful owner should have been contacted. - thats my opinion.
    I agree. However, the reason I asked for specific details is that perhaps the OP's carrier simply replaced the BB or at least gave them a discount on a new one in good faith, seeing as the OP didn't have insurance. I'm not saying what the carrier did was right, by any means, but also like I said... Reselling a stolen device is very different from reselling a lost device.
    08-26-08 09:33 AM
  11. spaz1234's Avatar
    I talked to a rep and instead of flagging the IMEI when you report a phone lost all they do is disable the SIM card. So, that way if the IMEI shows back up in their warehouse they don't have to report it to the owner. Net gain of a blackberry device to them plus replacement purchases, etc...!!!
    08-26-08 09:34 AM
  12. spaz1234's Avatar
    I agree. However, the reason I asked for specific details is that perhaps the OP's carrier simply replaced the BB or at least gave them a discount on a new one in good faith, seeing as the OP didn't have insurance. I'm not saying what the carrier did was right, by any means, but also like I said... Reselling a stolen device is very different from reselling a lost device.
    I disagree, the key is that they are transferring someone else's property. Not only that, but property of their own customer. Regardless of whether the phone was lost or stolen, if it ends up back in the Carrier's warehouse after the received a report that it was missing, they are liable.
    08-26-08 09:37 AM
  13. jenaywins's Avatar
    I disagree, the key is that they are transferring someone else's property. Not only that, but property of their own customer. Regardless of whether the phone was lost or stolen, if it ends up back in the Carrier's warehouse after the received a report that it was missing, they are liable.
    First of all, let me make it very clear that I am NOT defending your carrier's actions. That being said, did you receive a replacement from them? Did they discount a new device? Again, this is where specifics do become relevant in this case.

    And as far as your carrier reselling your device, on top of selling you a new one (which I'm not sure at this point whether they did or didn't,) you act like you are surprised. Really? Cell phone carriers are in business to make a PROFIT. This shouldn't shock you at all. Is reselling lost or stolen devices ethical? He*l no! But when it comes down to it, the business world is pretty dirty, and everyone does what they can to make a buck.
    08-26-08 09:44 AM
  14. spaz1234's Avatar
    First of all, let me make it very clear that I am NOT defending your carrier's actions. That being said, did you receive a replacement from them? Did they discount a new device? Again, this is where specifics do become relevant in this case.

    And as far as your carrier reselling your device, on top of selling you a new one (which I'm not sure at this point whether they did or didn't,) you act like you are surprised. Really? Cell phone carriers are in business to make a PROFIT. This shouldn't shock you at all. Is reselling lost or stolen devices ethical? He*l no! But when it comes down to it, the business world is pretty dirty, and everyone does what they can to make a buck.
    Knowingly transferring property without the permission of the owner is probably illegal in every state. Even if you are trying to make a profit.
    08-26-08 09:46 AM
  15. jenaywins's Avatar
    Look. Since you won't say whether or not you received a replacement or a discount, this arguement has no point.
    08-26-08 09:47 AM
  16. spaz1234's Avatar
    Knowingly transferring property without the permission of the owner is probably illegal in every state. Even if you are trying to make a profit.
    GETTING CAUGHT IS ANOTHER THING, PEOPLE SHOULD PIN BLACKBERRY DEVICES THAT THEY HAVE REPORTED TO THEIR CARRIERS AS LOST... SEE WHAT HAPPENS
    08-26-08 09:48 AM
  17. harrisondisc's Avatar
    Not if you report to them that it was lost... there is no difference, they re-sold my property while they had all the information available to them to know it was mine.
    I'm going to go out on a limb and say this. I'm betting you called your carrier and the esn was in fact reported missing. I'm also betting that you do your business at a private agent representing the carrier. They buy their own inventory, and in most cases, don't have the same access to the carrier's customer database. Someone either returned the phone to them, and they reissued it, or it was sent back to their supplier and was refurbed. All of which is perfectly legal. And if you don't do your business at an "agent store," then I just don't know. Maybe someone found it and put in their sim if you're gsm.
    08-26-08 09:49 AM
  18. spaz1234's Avatar
    Look. Since you won't say whether or not you received a replacement or a discount, this arguement has no point.
    Irrespective, they still need to change the practice. How many other people out there are getting ripped off without even knowing it?
    08-26-08 09:51 AM
  19. harrisondisc's Avatar
    GETTING CAUGHT IS ANOTHER THING, PEOPLE SHOULD PIN BLACKBERRY DEVICES THAT THEY HAVE REPORTED TO THEIR CARRIERS AS LOST... SEE WHAT HAPPENS
    Plus, "lost" doesn't mean a damn thing to the carrier. If you want it reported stolen and missing then you need to specify that. If you just tell them you lost your phone, what do you expect them to do? All they're gonna do is make sure you have another device.
    08-26-08 09:52 AM
  20. rameal999's Avatar
    As far as I know, for Verizon when you report a phone stolen then they shut down the phone entirely. Meaning if anyone was to try to activate the phone it would report as stolen to them and they would not be able to activate it. My boss told me this when I told him I was going to buy a curve off Craiglist. Anyways he told me that I should beware of people selling stolen phones because they might not be able to be activated.
    08-26-08 09:52 AM
  21. spaz1234's Avatar
    As far as I know, for Verizon when you report a phone stolen then they shut down the phone entirely. Meaning if anyone was to try to activate the phone it would report as stolen to them and they would not be able to activate it. My boss told me this when I told him I was going to buy a curve off Craiglist. Anyways he told me that I should beware of people selling stolen phones because they might not be able to be activated.
    Maybe my carrier doesn't do this.... not sure. Anyway, I still think that, if this is a common practice that it may be illegal or at least unethical. I just want to see if anyone else has had this happen to them.
    08-26-08 09:56 AM
  22. Andy90's Avatar
    Did you receive a replacement? Did you get a discount? details mean everything!!! And selling a lost phone is very different from selling a stolen phone!

    And also: GSM carriers are supposed to disable the IMEI, thus disabling the entire phone. CDMA carriers (Verizon, alltel, and the like) don't use SIMs. So they have to disable the entire phone to prevent "unauthorized usage".
    Last edited by Andy90; 08-26-08 at 10:01 AM. Reason: NONE
    08-26-08 09:59 AM
  23. b1gg134's Avatar
    Look. Since you won't say whether or not you received a replacement or a discount, this arguement has no point.
    Hello Exactly!!!

    If he recieved a replacement than he has nothing to ***** about. Since he is dodging the question and refuses to give anymore details i am thinking he just likes to ***** about nothing.

    Maybe he should be more careful with his phone in the future and he wont lose it.
    08-26-08 09:59 AM
  24. spaz1234's Avatar
    Plus, "lost" doesn't mean a damn thing to the carrier. If you want it reported stolen and missing then you need to specify that. If you just tell them you lost your phone, what do you expect them to do? All they're gonna do is make sure you have another device.
    If someone sells my lost phone on craigslist or ebay then I don't have a problem. IF my own carrier, that has the ability to know it is my phone, sells it... I have a problem. That is the issue... not that I expect them to do something. I don't, but if my phone ends up in their inventory, and it is the same phone that I reported to THEM as lost, I expect them to notify me. Seriously, its pretty simple. They track all this stuff by serial number and IMEI yet they won't tell me they found my phone and they have it at their warehouse.
    08-26-08 10:03 AM
  25. harrisondisc's Avatar
    If someone sells my lost phone on craigslist or ebay then I don't have a problem. IF my own carrier, that has the ability to know it is my phone, sells it... I have a problem. That is the issue... not that I expect them to do something. I don't, but if my phone ends up in their inventory, and it is the same phone that I reported to THEM as lost, I expect them to notify me. Seriously, its pretty simple. They track all this stuff by serial number and IMEI yet they won't tell me they found my phone and they have it at their warehouse.
    Like I said though, your CARRIER would not sell it. I see that you're on Tmobile. Damn near every TMobile store you see is privately owned by someone else who sells TMobile products and compatible devices. Your CARRIER wouldn't do that to you. Joe Shmo who owns his own "Wireless Warehouse" will do whatever he wants.
    08-26-08 10:08 AM
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