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09-15-13 05:35 PM
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  1. seemsixty7's Avatar
    That is a pretty significant process upgrade! First 64 bit processor and OS for a Smartphone. Killer GPU. Fingerprint scanning technology built into the phone, (others have done this, but not as elegantly). There were other enhancements via the OS. In comparison when you compare a 5s to a Q10, or even the Z10, it makes the BlackBerry pricing look even more silly IMHO. 5c was a disappointment as many were hoping for a lower price, but the 5s seems like they did some good work on. Z30 will still be 32 bit processing/processor, and probably equal pricing.

    Question: When developing for Desktop systems and the difference between 32 bit and 64bit systems. Yes the 64 bit system smokes the 32 bit system when running all 64bit apps, but is actually slower when running 32 bit apps. I'm not sure if this is the case with iOS apps, but why wouldn't it be. Apple prides itself on the huge number of apps. How many of those apps are going to be recompiled for 64bit processing? It has taken years for the desktop to get a majority of programs to run in true 64bit mode and there have been a huge number of bugs issues and incompatibilities come up. Someone educate me about this in regards to iOS development. I see the 64bit processor as being a negative in reality, if the 32 bit apps run slower on it. Marketing wise with Apple's machine it won't matter until enough people complain about it much like they did with Apple Maps.
    09-10-13 02:19 PM
  2. LewLew23's Avatar
    Just the fact that it's an Apple product, it's gonna sell. A lot at that. Yeah, people can say that it was just an incremental update, but in reality, the A7/M7 chips with the ability to do 64-bit processing, the fingerprint scanner, and the "budget" iPhone (the 5C) is incentive enough for people to buy it. iOS 7 I don't think is a game changer for most people. But it's still brings a couple of new features to consider.

    And before I get called a "troll" and a "BlackBerry" hater, I own a Z10. I'm just stating my observations.
    bb10_fan and FastLane228 like this.
    09-10-13 02:19 PM
  3. fromlid's Avatar
    Convenience is more of an issue with logging into your smartphone vs your laptop.
    09-10-13 02:19 PM
  4. qbnkelt's Avatar
    what I don't get is this... if fingerprint id is truely more convenient, (which I don't disagree with.. when it works right at least) why haven't they added it to their laptops? It's not like IBM hasn't been doing it for years already. I think that Apple just wanted to add something to the phone to sell it, without a true belief in it.. if they believed in it, we'd see it in the laptops. Or maybe i'm just crazy!
    This event was specifically targetted to iOS7 and iPhone..
    09-10-13 02:20 PM
  5. birdman_38's Avatar
    Just the fact that it's an Apple product, it's gonna sell. A lot at that. Yeah, people can say that it was just an incremental update, but in reality, the A7/M7 chips with the ability to do 64-bit processing, the fingerprint scanner, and the "budget" iPhone (the 5C) is incentive enough for people to buy it.
    Don't forget the new Champagne Gold color.
    09-10-13 02:21 PM
  6. seemsixty7's Avatar
    The door has been left open since the iPhone 5 was released but BlackBerry hasn't been able to take advantage due to lack of apps and mediocre marketing.
    YEP!
    09-10-13 02:22 PM
  7. MPLexus301's Avatar
    How does the Z30 look competitive?
    Larger screen size, similar 8MP camera, possibly better battery life, ? Still some unknown with Z30, obviously.

    Considering the knowledge and user expectation of the general phone-buying public, I think the 5S and Z30 will be relatively competitive. Maybe it's just me.

    Does BB still lack apps and some functionality? Oh yea, but...Apple has not blazed past the Z30 in terms of specs or user experience, from what I can tell. Again, maybe it's just me.
    09-10-13 02:22 PM
  8. southlander's Avatar
    The reality is that the general public has no idea what processor is inside any phone, and many don't care. How do they measure performance? With words like "fast" and "slow". 64 bit processor is a big deal, but to the general public, that number means nothing. More importantly, it will make the phone very fast, but "fast" is not really a measurable spec that many people care about. Screen size, camera megapixels, screen clarity/PPI...those are the specs that the general public bases their opinion on, and a big part of why Samsung has been so successful.
    The general public doesn't have to know. Only the sales rep at the carrier store needs to know in order to convince the average person how great it is. BlackBerry has been losing in the carriers' stores for what seems like forever now. That tradition will continue. All the rep has to tell everyone that comes in is the iPhone is the first ever 64 b... blah blah and that everything else is still a 32 b... blah blah blah. 64 = TWICE 32 = better. SOLD! Lol.

    Apple just released another on time device (albiet with some modest innovations), with the new OS being available to everyone in about a week on lots of iOS devices. They didn't run their mouths in advance and make promises they could not keep. Meanwhile BlackBerry is trying to figure out how to sell itself in pieces, perhaps. No the door did not open.

    And I do not use or even really like Apple products. But the truth is the truth.
    h20work, howards, Uzi and 3 others like this.
    09-10-13 02:23 PM
  9. Bbnivende's Avatar
    I am sensing a lot of jealousy here... like one of those teen angst movies when the new girl in school is the best looking.
    richardat likes this.
    09-10-13 02:23 PM
  10. Bolderholder's Avatar
    Apple...meet BlackBerry :-)

    Honestly, I'm not even sure Samsung can avoid this pitfall that eventually comes up on all smartphone makers.

    They eventually become a victim of their own success.

    Hardware only advances such much, so fast.

    Same with OS.

    It's hard to sustain the significant advances everyone realized earlier in their respective product life cycles.

    I guess the "S" is starting to look more like iPhone 5 Same as many predicted.

    Honestly I think consumers at large are expecting to be wowed by Samsung and Apple every time they release a new device...and there in lies the problem. Expectations continue to exceed realistic applications...all smartphone makers are having trouble reaching the bar set so high...

    Samsung will encounter the same thing...imo
    09-10-13 02:23 PM
  11. anon1727506's Avatar
    The sensor size (per pixel) is really important. I'm glad that Apple keeps sticking to the point that this is more important than the number of pixels, because they are absolutely right. I think pictures on the 5S will prove that.

    The fingerprint id is more convenient than putting your passcode or swipe each time, so I'm looking forward to that.

    But other than that, I'm not sure the speed increases will be that much of a selling point. I think the whole upgrade from 4S/5 to 5S is small enough overall that people who are upgrade-eligible will probably at least look at Microsoft/Nokia, etc.
    Most people who own an Apple are happy with Apple and will stick to Apple. Where Apple will have difficulty is with new smartphone users that have no experience with any platform. One look at a Samsung device is going to turn some buyers away from Apple.


    Of course none of this helps BlackBerry....
    09-10-13 02:24 PM
  12. qcbarry25's Avatar
    And where, pray-tell did you get the info for the load of bs you just puked? Another barstool prophet?
    you might want to be more specific with your post. which part is bs? that sales of z10 is crap compared to iphone 5 ? or the part that z30 is basically a bigger version of the unpopular z10? or the part about z30 unspecfic released date? which info is bs?
    09-10-13 02:24 PM
  13. pantlesspenguin's Avatar
    And where, pray-tell did you get the info for the load of bs you just puked? Another barstool prophet?
    What's wrong about what he stated? Isn't it true that the Z30 will basically be the Z10 with a bigger screen and 10.2 out of the box? And isn't it true that we don't have a set launch date for the Z30? The one thing I don't agree with what he said was that only CB users know about the Z30. As far as I can tell, tech blogs are doing a good job reporting Z30 news, leaks, etc and they're getting some good discussion in the comments.
    09-10-13 02:24 PM
  14. birdman_38's Avatar
    what I don't get is this... if fingerprint id is truely more convenient, (which I don't disagree with.. when it works right at least) why haven't they added it to their laptops? It's not like IBM hasn't been doing it for years already. I think that Apple just wanted to add something to the phone to sell it, without a true belief in it.. if they believed in it, we'd see it in the laptops.
    What does believing in it have to do with anything? Apple is responding to a real concern in today's mobile market. If it works they'll be sure to add it to their iPads and other products.
    09-10-13 02:25 PM
  15. bigglybobblyboo's Avatar
    The door has been left open since the iPhone 5 was released but BlackBerry hasn't been able to take advantage due to lack of apps and mediocre marketing.
    Bang on. There is an achingly large gap in the market right now and BlackBerry only need a tiny segment of it, that's the saddest part.

    What an opportunity.

    Here's a quick formula for success I think many of us would agree with...

    BB10 + top apps + decent marketing = loads of cash!

    Feel it, Swipe it, Love it. BlackBerry Z10...
    MPLexus301 and BB10QNX like this.
    09-10-13 02:26 PM
  16. app_Developer's Avatar
    Question: When developing for Desktop systems and the difference between 32 bit and 64bit systems. Yes the 64 bit system smokes the 32 bit system when running all 64bit apps, but is actually slower when running 32 bit apps. I'm not sure if this is the case with iOS apps, but why wouldn't it be.
    You're talking about systems where there significant API and/or ABI differences going from 32 to 64 bit system. That should not be the case in going from A6 to A7. I would not expect any 32-bit app to be slower. We'll of course confirm this in a couple of weeks.
    Apple prides itself on the huge number of apps. How many of those apps are going to be recompiled for 64bit processing? It has taken years for the desktop to get a majority of programs to run in true 64bit mode and there have been a huge number of bugs issues and incompatibilities come up. Someone educate me about this in regards to iOS development.
    Again, for most apps I don't think this will be a major issue. There may a few exceptions, but the good thing about mobile application stores in general (not just Apples) is that you use the tool to recompile your app and upload it to the store and people see an update available. It shouldn't be a very big issue (again for most apps), especially when you consider how well defined and narrow the APIs are in a mobile OS versus a desktop one.

    I see the 64bit processor as being a negative in reality, if the 32 bit apps run slower on it. Marketing wise with Apple's machine it won't matter until enough people complain about it much like they did with Apple Maps.
    Again, I think that's a poor assumption. I think the apps that would benefit from 64-bit (games, instagram type apps, etc.) would probably be updated within weeks of the launch of the phone. Look how quickly everyone updated their apps for the iPhone 4 and 5 screens. Or how quickly we all supported iOS6.

    It's not possible to crank clock speed in these devices. So Apple has the right idea is going wider (multiple 64-bit cores). It's hard to spin this one as a negative really.
    Last edited by app_Developer; 09-10-13 at 05:02 PM.
    westcoastit likes this.
    09-10-13 02:27 PM
  17. sjmartin007's Avatar
    The question should be what are you going to do with 64bits beyond the normal app usage?

    Posted via CB10
    09-10-13 02:29 PM
  18. undone's Avatar
    Question: When developing for Desktop systems and the difference between 32 bit and 64bit systems. Yes the 64 bit system smokes the 32 bit system when running all 64bit apps, but is actually slower when running 32 bit apps. I'm not sure if this is the case with iOS apps, but why wouldn't it be. Apple prides itself on the huge number of apps. How many of those apps are going to be recompiled for 64bit processing? It has taken years for the desktop to get a majority of programs to run in true 64bit mode and there have been a huge number of bugs issues and incompatibilities come up. Someone educate me about this in regards to iOS development. I see the 64bit processor as being a negative in reality, if the 32 bit apps run slower on it. Marketing wise with Apple's machine it won't matter until enough people complain about it much like they did with Apple Maps.
    Yeah, I am thinking the same thing. How well will the 32bit app catalog work with the 64bit processor. All it will take is a handful of popular apps not working quite right to make it a nightmare. It all boils down to the chip set and how its engineered and if they coded there libraries well enough that at the processor speed its little to no difference.
    09-10-13 02:31 PM
  19. fromlid's Avatar
    If the fingerprint scanner works and eliminates the need to enter in your passcode every time you pull your phone out then I imagine it would seal the deal for most users doing a side-by-side comparison. More than half of smartphone users don't use a passcode, presumably, because of the inconvenience.

    The Z30 may be comparable, whenever it is released but features like a fingerprint scanner will win over a lot of customers just because it's a great demo feature.
    09-10-13 02:32 PM
  20. MPLexus301's Avatar
    Isn't this contradictory? In your opening post you posited the idea that the iPhone 5S left the door open due to lackluster upgrades. But when significant upgrades are mentioned (64-bit is a beast on a phone) you state that the public doesn't know and doesn't care.
    No, I think that's still pretty much correct. The mass of people that I spoke to (friends, coworkers, social media comments, even my own mother) were all sure that Apple was going to release a larger phone with a better camera as that seems to be what it takes to get ahead in the smartphone game. Phone enthusiasts like us on CB, iMore, Android Central, etc. knew that none of this was going to happen so we tampered our expectations. However, thank Samsung for making the spec race look like the measuring stick for a phone's abilities, whether good or bad.

    However, the general public is pretty well aware that the iP5 was a "meh" upgrade over the 4S, and it seems that most now view the 5S and 5C as a "meh" upgrade over the 5. Why? The spec sheet doesn't look a whole lot different - the phone is still the same size and shape, and the camera still has 8 megapixels, just like it did back with the iPhone 4S. We can see that Apple changed the aperture and went from f2.4 to f2.2, but again, to the general public, what does that mean? Not much. They see "8MP" and think - "oh, ok, same camera"..."same size phone"..."what changed?"

    We all know that Apple is about to come out guns blazing with a marketing campaign that makes all of these relatively tame upgrades look like God's gift to man, BUT the reality is that they move the needle forward marginally. 64 bit processor? Try explaining that to a person walking down the street and see if they care.
    undone, DoktorFace and jafrul like this.
    09-10-13 02:33 PM
  21. Dirtymike14's Avatar
    Just the fact that it's an Apple product, it's gonna sell. A lot at that. Yeah, people can say that it was just an incremental update, but in reality, the A7/M7 chips with the ability to do 64-bit processing, the fingerprint scanner, and the "budget" iPhone (the 5C) is incentive enough for people to buy it. iOS 7 I don't think is a game changer for most people. But it's still brings a couple of new features to consider.

    And before I get called a "troll" and a "BlackBerry" hater, I own a Z10. I'm just stating my observations.
    You're the complete opposite of a troll, you're just a realist. You could slap an apple logo on a piece of dog ****, call it the ish*t, and it would still sell

    My z10 is a Leafs fan
    09-10-13 02:34 PM
  22. app_Developer's Avatar
    The question should be what are you going to do with 64bits? And what does it mean for the average consumer?

    Posted via CB10
    That's up to developers. People used to say why did companies add GPUs to phones. Well, over time developers wrote games that people really like. People wrote Instagram and mobile check deposit and such.

    Any app that needs to do a lot of processing of data could benefit. Things like iMovie editing should be much smoother. And by getting developers to update their apps to 64-bit now, Apple is setting themselves up to more easily go beyond 4GB of RAM in the future if needed.
    09-10-13 02:34 PM
  23. cgk's Avatar
    Didn't everyone say the same thing about the Z10? that unhappy Apple users would not get the iphone 5 and instead get that; How did that turn out?
    21stNow, richardat, JeepBB and 1 others like this.
    09-10-13 02:36 PM
  24. Zathis's Avatar
    Since this phone will have a 64 bit OS and Processor (unless it is running a 32 bit emulator that will basically make having 64 bit a mute point) does this mean the iPhone app ecosystem will be starting from scratch? I remember when Windows 7 64 bit came out and all the issues people had with programs not working.
    09-10-13 02:39 PM
  25. alternator77's Avatar
    lol this gotta be a joke
    Actually not really
    The retina display that was boasted about not too long ago has been surpassed by everyone even BlackBerry. With the advent of 720p and even 1080p resolutions

    App ecosystems are growing for most major operating systems slowly eroding the app store as an excuse to stay.i realize how yhis sounds coming from a BlackBerry user but numbers dont lie.


    Processing power that is explained in a tangible way "quad core /octacore " and in ghz per core is drawing people as opposed to "its twice as fast"


    Im not bashing apple at all the fact is they've got a user base thats loyal and for good reason. The product is good and they like it and for the loyal thats all they need.
    But much like BlackBerry the keyboard was good enough for a time until they realized they needed to up their game hence bb10.
    Apple will have an installed user base for many years to come. Again much like BlackBerry and the many legacy users who are still loyal to the brand.

    Im not saying its doom and gloom far from it im just saying out loud what many feel this update isnt much to brag about.



    Posted via CB10
    MPLexus301 likes this.
    09-10-13 02:42 PM
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