The demise of RIM's empire. Time to accept it.

Originally Posted by deRusett

I do agree that is it pointless to hate something purely because it is popular.

as for your use of google everything...
I pay for google apps, and google services. but because of googles poor privacy track record, I do not use all of their services, my emails are divided across 3 providers, though my main hosted email is google apps. my search usage is divided across 3 engines, though I have nothing to hide, I don't want the data miners to get everything, and google is the biggest data miner of them all,
I actually have started to move my mapping needs away from google to Microsoft though that is a very slow transition.

Put all your personal information and usage patterns in ONE place, and you risk if a site goes down losing everything, it hasn't happened in a while, but google outages are not unheard of.

I only use Google because I need an account for my Android Phone.

Windows Live is better for working on a desktop, and SkyDrive/Office Web Apps is much superior to Google Docs. I don't really care about their privacy record. It's not any worse than Facebook's, and their servers are for sure more secure than my network and/or computers.

What I hate is the rate at which they develop and kill services, and they love automatically opting you into them as well (they got Sued over Buzz, so they may not be doing that much in the future). A lot of their services are nothing more than beta products with the sole aim at farming information from users, like GOOG-411 just pharming voice data for their Voice Search apps, etc.

Also, I'm pissed that they don't allow you to delete Google Voice from your Google Account, and I had to change my cell phone number because they would not allow me to remove it without putting in another (valid) phone number in its place.

Originally Posted by howarmat

i agree xda is great too, just a little much for newbies i think lol

Yea, the modders there are a bit... disgusting. They think you don't belong there if you're not into voiding warranties and commiting insurance fraud when your phone gets bricked...

Unfortunately Cameron most of us BB users are tired of waiting to see while android and iPhone storm (no pun intended) past us. If RIM wants to keep us hanging on they need to give the BB faithful something to look forward to other than some sill tablet.

So far RIM hasn't done anything to keep us interested and come February they might regret it.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Originally Posted by Valhalla1759

TL;DR - RIM has given up on it's users and taken itself out of the fight. Therefore I have given up on RIM

First of all let me just point out...I'm a fairly seasoned BB user. First BB was the 8703e and today I use the storm 2. I'm not an android, iPhone, or WM7 fanboy. The best way to describe me as a once loyal customer of RIM who decided he can't take it anymore.

I remember the days when RIM was on top (as I'm sure most of us do). The days where blackberry represented cutting edge tech used by the professional elite. Then it slowly trickled into the mainstream. More and more companies adopted them, **** even my high school issued them out to teachers. Next thing you know high school and college students are rocking blackberries in all sorts of colors and designs. Basically you weren't cool unless you had one.....you laughed at the kids still using their sidekicks and razors. Unfortunately those days are long gone. Today it seems we BB users are the ones being laughed at....and I can't help but think it's for good reason.

First came the iPhone...I'm sure we all remember the day. An outstanding device when it first came...completely shook the world of cellphones. To deny the truth in that is to embrace ignorance. Clearly a threat had emerged to Blackberry....a large one at that. However even after all the ship jumpers blackberry held it's ground with it's loyal users and as a thank you they stepped up their game and gave us some pretty good devices. For the time being...

The iPhone took the mobile market by storm, it was the new thing to have. It was trendy. This was the start of RIM's downward spiral...

Blackberry had a few things going for it, the biggest was it's carriers. Clearly Verizon and Sprint would back up blackberry and not give into AT&T. Until one day we all started hearing about "droid". Now most of us here on CB are familiar with android....but to my surprise a lot of people didn't know what it was. Then I was even more surprised by Verizon and the onslaught of droid marketing it launched. Another contender had entered the market and it looked as though it would put up a fight....and it sure as **** did.

At this point I couldn't wait to see what RIM would release....these 3 big contenders fighting it out to deliver the best product and service. For consumers this was great! Unless of course your were in RIM's corner during the fight. RIM apparently threw in the towel early...they decided they didn't want to fight...

As a loyal BB user for quite sometime I was pretty disappointed. But I continued to hold out and wait and see...to which I'm still waiting. Of course they released the torch which I wasn't impressed enough with to leave Verizon...and the Style....seriously RIM....the Style? Thanks for the slap in the face....

The empire RIM once had is dead and gone. Now they seem to only care about doing just enough to get by. They've given up on us loyal users and have defended them for years. They simply stopped caring. Their idea of competing is a joke! Just look at the playbook! What a POS device that will be....I love the video where the guy talks about reliability and ease of use and the thing starts lagging horrendously. Now I'll admit I own an iPad and I love it, it's a fantastic device. Is it the best out right now? I think so. Can someone make a better one? I believe someone can. However I don't believe that someone is RIM....the playbook just screams half baked idea being rushed out...wonder if they got the battery problem fixed. Once again RIM does just enough to get by....loyal diehard blackberry users will buy the playbook just because of the blackberry logo (which is amusing as they flame apple gambits for doing the same damn thing).

So I'm tired of waiting....I'm tired of being disappointed by RIM. I devoted myself to a product I believed in...to a company I believed in...only for them to turn their back on the users. They've made no effort to keep us on their team. Storm 3? Maybe...but I'm tired of waiting to find out....and I know I'm not the only one.

The only thing I can really say I enjoy about my BB is BBM. Thats it! And I'm slowly losing contacts because they're ditching the BB. The app world is crap...my storm 2 is decaying on me and every time I bring it up to Verizon they just offer to send me a refurbished one...I'm sick of it...and I refuse to put up with it any longer.

So long RIM, thanks for the good years...but you just can't keep up anymore. You're a shadow of what you used to be. Now you're a joke...even in the business world. Now companies have left you for droid and iPhone, and I don't blame them.

My contract expires end of this month and since I'm with Verizon I'll be going for either a droid or iPhone. The iPhone makes sense as I own an iPad and iPod touch so it will be easy to get use to. Although two of my friends own android phones that I find pretty impressive.

As such I expect flames and what not to occur but say what you will. I know I'm not the only one that feels this way. All of you BB fanboys can make all the excuses you want but you're living in denial and I pity you. I hope RIM comes to their senses but I feel by the time they do it will be too late....with the iPhone now on Verizon they have little ground left and I see them being pummeled this year by the iPhone and the very impressive new android phones coming out.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Who cares if they go out of business? You can just buy another cell phone. Who cares if they all go out of business? You can just wait until you get home to make a phone call.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Originally Posted by Valhalla1759

Like I said I think the iPad is the best offering at the moment in my opinion. I don't believe the playbook will be able to even come close to the iPad. With that being said I do believe that somewhere down the road someone will make a better tablet.

Yep, and it will be Apple, with the iPad2, LOL.

@ Mike

Actually I think a lot of users care, myself included. I don't want RIM to go out of business or disappear. I want them to step it up and let others know they won't be over looked or dismissed easily. I personally believe strong competition between manufacturers yields great opportunities for consumers. However it would seem at this point the strong competition is between android and apple.

But something tells me you've missed the point of this discussion entirely...

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Look, Blackberry is evolving and it is just taking form and we are only seeing the tip of the ice berg. Why don't you try another phone for this year, maybe next and come back when BB has evolved into QNX. No need to be all down about it, the grass always looks greener on the other side.

As for excuses, I am surrounded by iphone and android phones in my family and get my hands on them regularly. Nice phones but I love my blackberry more. Good luck my friend and don't be so down, you'll be back.

Originally Posted by howarmat

http://www.itworld.com/sites/default...artphoneQ3.jpg

Does any one have any relavent information on handset sales?

Of course units with Android OS sell so much, there are a dozen manufacturers of units that run the same OS.

I feel this is like comparing apples and pears if i'm honest.

What are the unit sales for Samsung, Sony E, Nokia, LG, HTC, Motorola, RIM, Apple etc?

Then you can compare how successful the manufacturers are or are not.

Originally Posted by N8ter

I only use Google because I need an account for my Android Phone.

Windows Live is better for working on a desktop, and SkyDrive/Office Web Apps is much superior to Google Docs. I don't really care about their privacy record. It's not any worse than Facebook's, and their servers are for sure more secure than my network and/or computers.

What I hate is the rate at which they develop and kill services, and they love automatically opting you into them as well (they got Sued over Buzz, so they may not be doing that much in the future). A lot of their services are nothing more than beta products with the sole aim at farming information from users, like GOOG-411 just pharming voice data for their Voice Search apps, etc.

Also, I'm pissed that they don't allow you to delete Google Voice from your Google Account, and I had to change my cell phone number because they would not allow me to remove it without putting in another (valid) phone number in its place.

Windows Live is my secondary provider, I moved to google apps because it allowed me the easiest and cheapest porting of my domain once I stopped running the site I didn't want to give up the email address so I ported it to google apps. Windows Live doesn't offer the same ease, but I do agree, Office Live is 1000 times better than Google apps.

RIM is most definitely suffering from their decision to sit idly by and allow the other companies to catch, and in some cases, pass them by. They had a great, innovative technology and they sat on it feeling we had all we needed. To be fair, Apple re-defined the cell phone market and caught everyone by surprise. Most companies adapted, some did not.

Now we see the result of that decision; half-baked products, "refreshed models" and announcements for products that won't be available for months to come. QNx is an exciting acquisition for RIM and will likely provide some fantastic products in the future, but the issue remains the same...they're playing catchup.

It's difficult to be innovative when you're constantly having to be reactionary. OS6 is getting mixed reviews at best (even from the CrackBerry crew) and really wasn't designed to be used on non-touchscreen devices. Again, a stop gap measure to placate the masses and make them feel they're getting something new and cool. It was if you have a Torch, but not so much for anyone else...HELLO VZW

RIM has repeated the same behavior time and again (i.e. 9650 to placate the Tour users who had crappy trackball issues), now they're releasing a Torch2 for apparently the same reasons. Zzzzzzzz......

RIM will not die anytime soon; too many loyal fans to allow for that. I have enjoyed and been frustrated by various things about the several BlackBerry devices I've had as I progressed thru them 8830 -> 8330-> 9550-> Tour-> 9650, but it appears it's time for me to move on.

QNx may save RIM's bacon. The PlayBook looks very promising. Hopefully they'll get it out to the masses and it performs better than the iPad. It certainly has better features, but the iPad2 is coming and once again RIM will likely be left pulling up the rear.

Good luck RIM and all of my brethren in the CrackBerry Nation. The time has come for this foot soldier to take leave and try out another platform. Hopefully RIM will shift out of 2nd gear and get the company moving forward at a better pace.

I feel for your pain. (picture me playing a violin)

Originally Posted by Valhalla1759

Unfortunately Cameron most of us BB users are tired of waiting to see while android and iPhone storm (no pun intended) past us. If RIM wants to keep us hanging on they need to give the BB faithful something to look forward to other than some sill tablet.

So far RIM hasn't done anything to keep us interested and come February they might regret it.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Amen and I agree 100%.This is the only point I have been trying to make all along. Good comment.

Originally Posted by MooseBerry

Yep, and it will be Apple, with the iPad2, LOL.

Has anyone watched the video of the CB founder Kevin at CES using the Playbook. I would not want one and you can tell that he had mixed feelings on some of the operation of it and to me it just looked plain awkward on some of the functions he was going through.

Originally Posted by Valhalla1759

@ Mike

Actually I think a lot of users care, myself included. I don't want RIM to go out of business or disappear. I want them to step it up and let others know they won't be over looked or dismissed easily. I personally believe strong competition between manufacturers yields great opportunities for consumers. However it would seem at this point the strong competition is between android and apple.

But something tells me you've missed the point of this discussion entirely...

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Once again you make an excellent point Valhalla on the same way I feel and what I have been posting.... Hey can I just copy ans paste your comments and save the writing? ...LOL :)

Really? Wow. Where would Rim go? I think Rim has kept true to its users. The users that use the BB for what its designed for. Its as if there is a base standard that has to be meet 1st then the rest fall in place. Ie. The touch screen version BBs having to comply with the base communication standard then all the goodies added next. Its been said many times if you like playing games and running useless apps iphones and droids are for you

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Originally Posted by 13echo4

Really? Wow. Where would Rim go? I think Rim has kept true to its users. The users that use the BB for what its designed for. Its as if there is a base standard that has to be meet 1st then the rest fall in place. Ie. The touch screen version BBs having to comply with the base communication standard then all the goodies added next. Its been said many times if you like playing games and running useless apps iphones and droids are for youPosted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Well I don't know who said this but whoever it was has not gone into the app stores for these phone and as I dont mind saying it even the iphone app store on itunes. There are so many free and paid productivity apps for business it is rediculous and I know because I have many of them on my Ipod Touch and they are very useful.

There are more calculator apps in iTunes App Store alone than BlackBerry apps available from anywhere. I think the iTunes App Store is on about 7.5 million apps now. BlackBerry is a one trick pony, iPhone has revolutionised the smartphone, and Android has surpassed it, but RIM's culture of "Oh, it's not ready to be in a phone yet" is going to prove their ultimate company-busting downfall. Someone needs to go to them, and slap them repeatedly in the face until they realise they have to get out of that mode if they want to survive.

Originally Posted by deRusett

I think it is the shift of the Empire, not so much the demise...

Couldn't agree more... I don't think most professional elite would be happy with the email capabilities and the office capabilities of a iPhone, Windows Phone, or Droid... The Curve Series has stayed true to the core of Blackberry phones, and has had to adapt over time to current trends...

I felt the same when they got rid of the sidescroll for the trackball and now the trackball for the track pad... I feel your pain, but Blackberries can still bring home and office pleasure <3

-Love a past 8520 and now 9800 user :)

Originally Posted by Jaguarr40

Well I don't know who said this but whoever it was has not gone into the app stores for these phone and as I dont mind saying it even the iphone app store on itunes. There are so many free and paid productivity apps for business it is rediculous and I know because I have many of them on my Ipod Touch and they are very useful.

Just because apps stores have good productivity apps doesn't mean they don't also have game apps

iPhone and Android are much more gamer friendly, and RIM seems fine to not be gamer friendly, Yes Android and iPhone CAN do business, but that isn't their target market, RIM's target market has been Business, and messaging phones, NOT mediaphones, they never claimed to be a media phone,

RIM's empire never was a consumer empire, they just need to create some phones that will keep businesses from dropping BES, because users will enjoy using their BB's for more than just work again.

Originally Posted by Yasmeenabeena

Couldn't agree more... I don't think most professional elite would be happy with the email capabilities and the office capabilities of a iPhone, Windows Phone, or Droid... The Curve Series has stayed true to the core of Blackberry phones, and has had to adapt over time to current trends...

I felt the same when they got rid of the sidescroll for the trackball and now the trackball for the track pad... I feel your pain, but Blackberries can still bring home and office pleasure <3

-Love a past 8520 and now 9800 user :)

--Love a past 7520m 9800 and now 9800 user :)

was thinking too fast :)

Originally Posted by deRusett

RIM's empire never was a consumer empire, they just need to create some phones that will keep businesses from dropping BES, because users will enjoy using their BB's for more than just work again.

I find that they have with the Torch... has enough memory to do work and play at once... I find RIM very satisfying... with the Torch 2, you can have one (original Torch) for work and one (Torch 2) for play... RIM is NOT slacking in any way...

Originally Posted by Yasmeenabeena

--Love a past 7520m 9800 and now 9800 user :)

So you upgraded from a 9800 to another 9800?

LOL i'm mid day drunk! 7520, 8900, and 9800! :) Thanks

Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

There are more calculator apps in iTunes App Store alone than BlackBerry apps available from anywhere. I think the iTunes App Store is on about 7.5 million apps now. BlackBerry is a one trick pony, iPhone has revolutionised the smartphone, and Android has surpassed it, but RIM's culture of "Oh, it's not ready to be in a phone yet" is going to prove their ultimate company-busting downfall. Someone needs to go to them, and slap them repeatedly in the face until they realise they have to get out of that mode if they want to survive.

I do agree with the bolded statement I highlighted and don't know completely about what is going on with RIM but I will just say that calculators or other very useful business and productivity apps even if something like a bar scanner from Amazon so if you are out at Best Buy you can scan a price which will compare it to Amazon for you to make up your mind on purchase... Now I ask you, When is a dev going to present something like this to RIM for approval to go into App World?

Oh yeh RIM don't forget R&D on your phones too. That would be very important as well to keep up with the killer devices coming out on ANdroid and iphone to VZW.

I'm a new BB owner with the Torch. Been around and seen them for years but was steadfastly Windows Mobile until Windows Phone 7.

I finally switched to BB not because of any shortcomings I saw in WP7 OS but simply because I didn't like the form factor of the available phones. Really that simple. No need for me to hate on Microsoft or WP7. I didn't want a ginormous touch screen phone or a horizontal slider. Everything else would have been compelling enough for me to stay had there been a phone the size of the Torch with a sliding portrait qwerty. There wasn't that option so I switched.

I think RIM will be around for awhile. I think it's marketing that has convinced us we need to have the fancy new whatever running at a gajillion hertz and a 40 inch screen with an app to cut your toenails for you.

I'm happy I switched to BB after all of this time. It's tweakable, stable, an improvement over my old WM phone and it's the coolest slider I've seen/used. As long as RIM continues to make devices in the form factor I want, I'll be with them until the end.

Dead? I don't think so. They make a product that appeals to a vast number of people. What does (or should it) matter to me how high is their market share as long as they are making a product that I find compelling?