1. markphr's Avatar
    I run a small law firm with BES, 13 Blackberry Bolds of a variety of flavours but mine is the only 9900 and the usual assortment of tablets. Recently we moved over to BES Express without any problems because control was not really an issue for me - I just want good synchronisation with Exchange Server.

    Our contract is expired and I am considering our options.

    Firstly I have to say in an ideal world I would like to stay with Blackberry. I feel more secure and efficient in terms of the general PIM side of things. However my experience over the past year has been very frustrating and I am now considering jumping ship.

    Why? Well the 9900 has been a dog for me. I'm talking about my personal experience and I know there are plenty of people that love it out there. I am on my 3rd 9900, it still needs constant battery pulls but I just put up with it now because I cant see the point in changing it yet again.

    Applications I used to enjoy using regularly are either gone or no longer work as they should. I assume because developers no longer want to be bothered with RIM. Examples are Viigo, Bolt, Accu Weather (keeps crashing never did before) and my dictation software which stopped being supported after os 4.

    I no longer have auto focus so I can't use any document scanning apps such as that I used for business cards. I no longer have 2 side convenience keys so my shortcuts in day to day operation are limited.

    I have a Blackberry Playbook however despite repeated attempts, by reasonable standard engineers I cant get access through my Cisco Firewall whereas the iPad configuration took a few seconds. The Playbook WOULD be fantastic for use with apps such as Skype and V1 Video golf analysis however these guys can't be bothered to write for Blackberry. My Playbook just sits in my laptop bag and I never use it. I use a laptop and a 10.1 tablet - that suits my needs. The Blackberry App World on Playbook looks pathetically amateurish and is overpriced.

    All in all I'm thinking why wait around any longer? I hate to think of joining Apple but they get the apps and generally those apps work. Android seems to have too many flavours but again they also seem to get the apps and they are a lesser evil to Apple. I know plenty of people who have switched to Apple and they are happy. I don't know any the other way round.

    Somebody please persuade me to stay with RIM, I'm on my last legs!

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    08-01-12 10:38 AM
  2. kill_9's Avatar
    If you manage a law firm and choose a communications channel which does not protect client information are you not opening your law firm to lawsuits? What model of Cisco VPN do you have deployed?
    08-01-12 10:53 AM
  3. JasW's Avatar
    Somebody please persuade me to stay with RIM, I'm on my last legs!
    Sounds like you've already persuaded yourself to abandon ship. And I'm not going to be the one to convince you to stay.

    Just a few minutes ago, yet another colleague -- a looong time BB user like me -- told me that he had bailed on BB and had bought a Samsung Galaxy S3. Now I don't know anyone at my firm who uses a BB anymore. The iPhone 4S pulled a whole bunch away, and now the S3 has pulled away the rest. Our firm has no problem supporting either, given that it added Good Technology to the server (to complement the existing BES) two years ago. I would suggest you look into the same. Given what you wrote, it seems you would be happier, and I bet the others would be as well.

    If you manage a law firm and choose a communications channel which does not protect client information are you not opening your law firm to lawsuits? What model of Cisco VPN do you have deployed?
    This is not 2007. Untold law firms across the country allow use of iOS and Android devices -- the technology is certainly secure enough. I've not heard of any client suing a law firm because its use of Android or iOS devices divulged privileged information that harmed the client.
    08-01-12 11:22 AM
  4. dew066's Avatar
    I am not sure how your plans are structured there but my relative who owns a business with 11 phones recently went to Apple because BB didn't have an App that was cruicial to the product he sells.

    He dislikes Apple and his data costs increased by a lot. He is a small business and this increase was felt.

    Check out the "actual" cost difference in your area before jumping ship.
    08-01-12 11:58 AM
  5. kraski's Avatar
    Why? Well the 9900 has been a dog for me. I'm talking about my personal experience and I know there are plenty of people that love it out there. I am on my 3rd 9900, it still needs constant battery pulls but I just put up with it now because I cant see the point in changing it yet again.
    I had a similar experience with my 9800. Number 4 is in a drawer as a backup. I now have a 9810 that's been pretty much rock solid. Have you thought of trying a different model?

    Applications I used to enjoy using regularly are either gone or no longer work as they should. I assume because developers no longer want to be bothered with RIM. Examples are Viigo, Bolt, Accu Weather (keeps crashing never did before) and my dictation software which stopped being supported after os 4.
    Let's see.

    1) Viigo is owned by RIM, so they're not likely to stop developing for RIM. Have you tried support? Or the app section of various Blackberry related forums?

    2) Bolt. Since they terminated service for everyone and went belly up as a company, it's not surprising that it's no longer working on your 9900. But don't expect that to change by switching to Apple or Android. A dead company is a dead company.

    3) AccuWeather. Works fine on my 9810. Again, have you tried the forums and support?

    4) Since you neglected to mention which dictation software, I can't address that directly. But Vlingo and Evernote allow voice dictation, among others. You could try something newer and possibly better.

    I no longer have auto focus so I can't use any document scanning apps such as that I used for business cards. I no longer have 2 side convenience keys so my shortcuts in day to day operation are limited.
    The lack of autofocus was a known shortcoming when the phone hit the street. You could have chosen a phone with autofocus.

    The loss of one convenience key might lose several shortcut variations. Add the menu feature of Advance OS & LED and/or Quicklaunch tied to a key. You get a multitude of additional shortcuts.

    I have a Blackberry Playbook however despite repeated attempts, by reasonable standard engineers I cant get access through my Cisco Firewall whereas the iPad configuration took a few seconds. The Playbook WOULD be fantastic for use with apps such as Skype and V1 Video golf analysis however these guys can't be bothered to write for Blackberry. My Playbook just sits in my laptop bag and I never use it. I use a laptop and a 10.1 tablet - that suits my needs. The Blackberry App World on Playbook looks pathetically amateurish and is overpriced.
    Get what works for you. In order to do what I need to do, I mostly use an Android tablet and use the 9810's hotspot feature instead of bridging. There are still things THAT won't do, too. But, like all phones and tablets, you live with it, find work arounds or alternative apps, or move on without whining.

    BTW, the Playbook does run Android apps. Have you tried Android versions of those apps?

    As for the Cisco firewall, I'm not sure what to tell you. I have a Linksys router/firewall that works perfectly well with everything I own, including the Playbook. And Linksys is owned by Cisco. Setup was pretty much a no brainer, done without the aid of external engineers.

    All in all I'm thinking why wait around any longer? I hate to think of joining Apple but they get the apps and generally those apps work. Android seems to have too many flavours but again they also seem to get the apps and they are a lesser evil to Apple. I know plenty of people who have switched to Apple and they are happy. I don't know any the other way round.
    Either way, there goes your security. And you make the entire firm switch phones, apps, etc.. Just so you get something other than the 9900 you chose? You CAN get a different BB. Which one depends on who your carrier is.
    Last edited by kraski; 08-01-12 at 12:52 PM.
    08-01-12 12:48 PM
  6. markphr's Avatar
    I see. So basically it's my fault. The 9900 was sold as flagship BB model and its crap but I should just get another model.

    Viigo was bought by RIM and promptly dropped. They wanted to push their own offering which is based around social media convergence. Not news and subscriptions etc. Typical of a company that started to believe their core customer wanted to live on Facebook and BBM.

    Bolt was a better browser in my opinion. For a start the UI string could manipulated to give a desktop browser experience for sites that insist on delivering stupid app/wap style pages. I can't say what other os phones deliver in this respect.

    I can assure you that the software company that deliver the professional dictation app point blank refuse to develop with RIM any longer, they happily roll out Android and IOS apps.

    I was frankly astonished that a phone sold to me as an upgrade lost autofocus. No I didn't check - silly me for not checking for all the bits downgraded on a supposed upgrade.

    We use a Cisco Pix firewall, its hardly the same thing as a Linksys router. Plenty of large corporate law firms and Government organisations now support full network access by IOS devices, RIM themselves have now introduced Fusion to support BES style access for android and IOS phones.

    I bought the PB in the expectation RIM would support it with a fine array of software that would showcase its undoubted ability as a gadget. If I had wanted to run Android games I would have bought a Galaxy or the like.

    Frankly, I don't want to research the out of every product I buy. Nor do I want to have to contact support for things that should work but don't. Rather I want a solution provider I can trust. I guess the point is I feel I have lost faith in RIM.


    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    08-01-12 02:41 PM
  7. hpjrt's Avatar
    I would weigh the ramifications of using either iOS or Anfroid with regard to your clients' security very carefully before instituting a change. If I were a client of your firm I might be concerned with the security of my information. Given that despite media references to the contrary, governments still require that mobile devices meet their criteria for security and that several BB phones as well as the PB has passed their tests, whereas iOS and Android have not, suggests that the security of other platforms is in question.

    I can understand your frustration with your current phone but someone obviously steered you in the wrong direction. Isn't research rather a large part of what a lawyer does? I would think that researching products would be second nature to a good lawyer.
    Last edited by hpjrt; 08-02-12 at 06:55 AM.
    08-01-12 03:19 PM
  8. Moonbase0ne's Avatar
    While I understand not wanting to look up research all the features you may need when deciding what phone/tablet/etc.. to go with, in the end, that is exactly what you have to do to make sure you know what you are getting and if it will fit your needs.

    I agree that the lose of Auto Focus in the 9900, for example, was a big suprise , but if Auto Focus is something you really need and use, it's really up to you to make sure the phone you are upgrading to still has it.

    I think you might be happier with the offerings of Android or Apple.
    08-01-12 03:22 PM
  9. southlander's Avatar
    Applications I used to enjoy using regularly are either gone or no longer work as they should. I assume because developers no longer want to be bothered with RIM. Examples are Viigo, Bolt, Accu Weather (keeps crashing never did before) and my dictation software which stopped being supported after os 4.

    I no longer have auto focus so I can't use any document scanning apps such as that I used for business cards. I no longer have 2 side convenience keys so my shortcuts in day to day operation are limited.
    Accuweather when I used it had some stability issues on OS7 with a couple of devices I have. Dumped it and got BeWeather when RIM offered it for free. Much better and stable.

    There is no good way around the camera thing. You can adapt a bit by your technique but RIM really kind of messed up there.

    Security would be important for you more so than for many. I'd avoid Android if you jump. I am using a Droid RAZR MAXX right now and while it is a nice phone a lot of apps seem to want very wide privileges on the device. I will give you one example. I am heading to Busch Gardens in Tampa this week. I thought it would be nice to install the Busch Gardens app. I was like hey this is something I could not get on my BlackBerry. When I went to install it it asked for permissions to modify/remove system system area resources or something like that. Wow.

    Anyway. If I had a law firm I would not be using Android for business.
    08-01-12 03:35 PM
  10. kraski's Avatar
    I see. So basically it's my fault. The 9900 was sold as flagship BB model and its crap but I should just get another model.
    You're talking about a several hundred dollar device that is important to your business. It seems pretty naive not to research it.

    Viigo was bought by RIM and promptly dropped. They wanted to push their own offering which is based around social media convergence. Not news and subscriptions etc. Typical of a company that started to believe their core customer wanted to live on Facebook and BBM.
    So, what other options are available? You can sit and complain or you can look for an alternative. It sounds like you're very much looking for an excuse to switch. So, go for it and enjoy. But don't make RIM the villain because you didn't properly research.

    Bolt was a better browser in my opinion. For a start the UI string could manipulated to give a desktop browser experience for sites that insist on delivering stupid app/wap style pages. I can't say what other os phones deliver in this respect.
    I liked Bolt, too. Just like I would really like Chrome on my Galaxy Tab. But I won't see that till Samsung pushes out the ICS upgrade. Such is life.

    I can assure you that the software company that deliver the professional dictation app point blank refuse to develop with RIM any longer, they happily roll out Android and IOS apps.
    If you really need that particular app, then research would have let you know it could be had on other platforms. Or shown you what alternatives are available and whether they fit your needs.

    I was frankly astonished that a phone sold to me as an upgrade lost autofocus. No I didn't check - silly me for not checking for all the bits downgraded on a supposed upgrade.
    We use a Cisco Pix firewall, its hardly the same thing as a Linksys router. Plenty of large corporate law firms and Government organisations now support full network access by IOS devices, RIM themselves have now introduced Fusion to support BES style access for android and IOS phones.
    OK. If iOS is what you want, do it. If Android is what you want, do it.

    I bought the PB in the expectation RIM would support it with a fine array of software that would showcase its undoubted ability as a gadget. If I had wanted to run Android games I would have bought a Galaxy or the like.
    It was pretty obvious that the PB didn't start with a stellar array of apps. And it was pretty clear that wasn't changing much over time. At least till BB10 comes to the PB. Maybe it's because I'm not big on predictions. And I don't buy much of anything costly or important without lots of research. I just don't like disappointment. If something still doesn't cut it after I've studied my options, it may be that nothing does or it may be my research was faulty. Either way, my next step is to figure out how to make what I have do what I want. If it can't, THEN I look at where to move on to. If I've invested time and money, I don't just throw it away; I work on fixing it.

    Frankly, I don't want to research the out of every product I buy. Nor do I want to have to contact support for things that should work but don't. Rather I want a solution provider I can trust. I guess the point is I feel I have lost faith in RIM.
    If you don't research, then you are stuck with manufacturer's hype. That's not often a true picture of the product. And, no, you don't need to research the H out of it. But a quick glance at the 9900 specs on Phonescoop would have told you there was only one convenience key and that the camera was fixed focus. And you could have checked out available alternatives before you bought.

    Whether you stay with RIM products or not, research is something I'd suggest in any case. If you don't know what you're buying, you leave yourself open for future disappointment. No matter what platform you end up on.
    Last edited by kraski; 08-01-12 at 05:06 PM.
    08-01-12 05:03 PM
  11. Roo Zilla's Avatar
    Oh yes, the security boogieman again. I've said this before, and I'll say it again. You are much more likely to have security breaches via PC and WiFi than you will via mobile phone. Yes, there are news stories about security breaches in Android? Why? Because it's so rare that it's news. Security breaches on PCs and WiFi are so common it's not news any more. It happens every minute of every day somewhere in the world. The guys who can successfully hack into a smartphone are few and far in between, and they're pretty much the superstars of the hacker community. These guys have no problem hacking a PC. If you encounter one of these guys, believe me, they'll hack your PC before your phone because it's EASIER. If security is such a concern, than nobody should use a PC or WiFi, because both are less secure than a modern smartphone.

    EDIT: In the most recent news, NFC in Android and Meego were hacked. This is what the guy went through to do it:

    "Miller's demonstration is the culmination of more than six months of painstaking research. He ultimately chose the ACR122U and SCL3711 card readers. To automate the process, he placed his test phones on the computer-connected NFC reader devices and then turned the phone's NFC on and off thousands of times. Each time he made subtle changes to the data beamed to the handset. The process of "fuzzing"—in which software is exposed to data millions of times to isolate payloads to make them crash—has long been a core part of Miller's work.

    "The hard part was finding the right hardware and software where all this magic would work," Miller said. "It's a big, elaborate mess that eventually worked.""

    -Arstechnica

    Do people really think that every hacker in the world has this kind of dedication? The guy spent 6 MONTHS cracking this puzzle! The only reason Miller has this kind of dedication is because it's his job. He's a research consultant at a security firm.
    Last edited by Roo Zilla; 08-01-12 at 05:42 PM.
    08-01-12 05:09 PM
  12. PineappleUnderTheSea's Avatar
    I would switch it iOS, you are obviously frustrated with RIM, and I don't see anything changing until early next year. Another 6 months of frustration isn't really worth it, IMO. You can always come back once BB10 is proven.

    As for security, let's just say that using iPhones doesn't seem to bother our corporate lawyers, and they deal with a lot of sensitive info for such a large corporation.
    08-01-12 05:42 PM
  13. Moonbase0ne's Avatar
    I agree. This whole "Ohh NO. Don't Buy Any Phone Other Than A BackBerry Or You'll Get Hacked!!!" really needs to stop. You pretty much only hear about it on sites/forums like this. And, I am pretty sure that if there was a mass Android and iOS hacking epidemic, many major companies, businesses, etc... would have the common sense not to use them, and thus, Only use a BlackBerry. But alas, they still do.

    Also, RIM needs to promote the security and data saving features if they really think it's the reason why people, in the US atleast, are leaving them. But, Promote with GOOD Ads. Not the Be Bold type of ....
    08-01-12 05:48 PM
  14. hornlovah's Avatar
    Oh yes, the security boogieman again. I've said this before, and I'll say it again. You are much more likely to have security breaches via PC and WiFi than you will via mobile phone. Yes, there are news stories about security breaches in Android? Why? Because it's so rare that it's news. Security breaches on PCs and WiFi are so common it's not news any more. It happens every minute of every day somewhere in the world. The guys who can successfully hack into a smartphone are few and far in between, and they're pretty much the superstars of the hacker community. These guys have no problem hacking a PC. If you encounter one of these guys, believe me, they'll hack your PC before your phone because it's EASIER. If security is such a concern, than nobody should use a PC or WiFi, because both are less secure than a modern smartphone. ...Snip...
    I don't believe that anyone is going to claim that your iPhone or Android device will be hacked tomorrow, but there are a number of tools and exploits already in the public domain that will certainly do the job. Certainly, no expert knowledge is required! Look at . It literally takes a couple of seconds to reveal an Android's pattern lock once you gain root access. ONE of the many forensic software vendors offers password bypass for 59 popular Android devices. Odds are, all your confidential data will belong to them. I can go on for a quite a while, but you get my drift

    In short, you can argue that that your chances of getting hacked are slim, but you cannot make a credible claim that the number of attacks and exploits are diminishing, or that superstar knowledge is required to compromise these devices.
    08-01-12 07:26 PM
  15. ajst222's Avatar
    Well hey...if BB isn't working for you, then go to something that does. But about the problems, just clean up your device every once in a while. Any phone (iPhone and Android too from experience) will run very unsmoothly if their memory is full and the phone is "dirty".
    08-01-12 07:36 PM
  16. Roo Zilla's Avatar
    I don't believe that anyone is going to claim that your iPhone or Android device will be hacked tomorrow, but there are a number of tools and exploits already in the public domain that will certainly do the job. Certainly, no expert knowledge is required! Look at . It literally takes a couple of seconds to reveal an Android's pattern lock once you gain root access. ONE of the many forensic software vendors offers password bypass for 59 popular Android devices. Odds are, all your confidential data will belong to them. I can go on for a quite a while, but you get my drift…

    In short, you can argue that that your chances of getting hacked are slim, but you cannot make a credible claim that the number of attacks and exploits are diminishing, or that superstar knowledge is required to compromise these devices.
    And in 30 seconds, you can find 10X more tools to hack a PC, yet, people still use PCs, and I never said the exploits are diminishing, if anything, they'll increase in numbers as more features are added.

    EDIT: As a comparison, since 1996, there have been approximately 27,000 known vulnerabilities found in various versions of Windows. How many in Android? A few dozen?? At any given time, there are literally several dozen of 0 day publically known exploits. For iPhone, in the jailbreaking community, it literally takes those guys months to find a new hole each time Apple plugs one up.
    Last edited by Roo Zilla; 08-01-12 at 08:03 PM.
    08-01-12 07:41 PM
  17. hornlovah's Avatar
    The guys who can successfully hack into a smartphone are few and far in between, and they're pretty much the superstars of the hacker community.
    I'm not here to discuss PC security. I was refuting the assertion above.
    08-01-12 07:47 PM
  18. Roo Zilla's Avatar
    I'm not here to discuss PC security. I was refuting the assertion above.
    They are few and far in between, compared to PC. Do you know anybody who has gotten any type of virus/trojan/malware on a PC? How about on a smartphone? Which number is greater.... Yet we still buy and use PCs and I think for the vast majority, much more sensitive data is stored on those.
    08-01-12 08:10 PM
  19. kraski's Avatar
    They are few and far in between, compared to PC. Do you know anybody who has gotten any type of virus/trojan/malware on a PC? How about on a smartphone? Which number is greater.... Yet we still buy and use PCs and I think for the vast majority, much more sensitive data is stored on those.
    But, if you talk to any of the security folks, smartphones become a much more appealing target as 'net access shifts from PC to phone. Along with a fact you seem to ignore. The PC has tons of tools to fight the hacks, trojans, malware and viruses. The quality and quantity of similar tools for phones is miniscule by comparison.

    P.S. -- In the last 5 years I've had fewer hacker/trojan/malware/virus issues with my PC than the iPhones of several people I know. And mine were all thwarted.
    Last edited by kraski; 08-01-12 at 09:37 PM.
    08-01-12 09:34 PM
  20. markphr's Avatar
    Bloody mate if you say RESEARCH one more time!

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9900 using Tapatalk
    08-02-12 01:57 AM
  21. Majestic Lion's Avatar
    Sheesh, the bait threads are all over the place in the last few days.
    08-02-12 02:05 AM
  22. JasW's Avatar
    I would weigh the ramifications of using either iOS or Anfroid with regard to your clients' security very carefully before instituting a change. If I were a client of your firm I might e concerned with the security of my information. Given that despite media references to the contrary, governments still require that mobile devices meet their criteria for security and that several BB phones as well as the PB has passed their tests, whereas iOS and Android have not, suggests that the security of other platforms is in question.

    I can understand your frustration with your current phone but someone obviously steered you in the wrong direction. Isn't research rather a large part of what a lawyer does? I would think that researching products would be second nature to a good lawyer.
    Spoken like the usual go-down-with-the-ship RIM defender who has little idea of what he or she is talking about. Obviously, you're not only a non-lawyer, you also have no concept of what strictures apply to lawyers in the U.S. vis--vis client information.

    Lawyers in the United States are generally governed by their individual state bar association's rules of professional conduct, which are essentially uniform, and which provide that with several exceptions (e.g., to prevent the client from committing a crime, to prevent injury or death to another, when required in court), a lawyer shall not reveal information pertaining to representation of a client.

    This, of course, is the attorney-client privilege. If a burglar breaks into an office building, breaks into a lawyer's office, breaks into a file cabinet in that office, and removes such privileged information, is the lawyer liable to the client? Almost certainly not.

    First of all, the lawyer did not reveal the information -- the release occurred by dint of a supervening cause. Second, the client has to suffer an adverse result to successfully sue his or her attorney. I'm hard pressed to think of a scenario in which a judge would allow the use at trial of privileged information obtained by criminal means, let alone where it would be the primary factor in causing the client in question to suffer an adverse result. (Judges sometimes allow the use of privileged information that is negligently disclosed in response to a request for production from the other side, but this is not such a scenario.)

    Further, in light of this, the odds that there are adverse parties to your client out there who would go to the trouble of hacking your wireless email system -- or hacking your PC-based email servers, or breaking into your office to steal files -- are about as good as the odds that we will see a video of you on YouTube burning the Canadian flag while dancing in a G-string.

    In short, it's an overblown bogeyman. We're not talking about matters of national security here. We're talking about attorney-client privileged information.
    08-02-12 06:22 AM
  23. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    I suggest Looking into Mobile Fusion by RIM

    and then offering your staff BlackBerry Bold 9900, 9790, 9860's and iPhones 4S, Samsung Galaxy 3's

    My company gave me an iPhone when I came over to them, and I've been using it they offered the first week to take the iPhone back and give me a BlackBerry seeing my frustration with how iOS did things and the things it was missing, but I'm stubborn and said I'd keep the iPhone and try and make it work, well by the end of this month I will no longer have an iPhone and will be moving to a Bold 9900.

    with today's device management options can pick more than just BlackBerry, but make sure you have the infrastructure in place for BlackBerry should people chose it.



    NOW I ask, do you use BlackBerry in your firm to it's fullest potential?
    Do you assess your data usage on a quarterly audit to ensure you're getting the best feature set for your usage?
    Does your firm use BBM, and BBM groups? BBM Groups are excellent for a team to be using, but so many firms/businesses don't even realize they exist.
    Do you or your staff travel internationally for business?

    IF you're not utilizing all that BlackBerry has to offer, then it is much easier to move to another platform, but as a BlackBerry user who has over the years taken the time to learn the ins and outs, both my iPhone4S, and my Samsung SG3 leave me frustrated and wanting, more often than satisfied.
    Give your staff choice, those who type a lot on their BlackBerry's are more likely to stay with BlackBerry, those who read a lot on their phone would be serviced well with an SG3, I really can't see a reason anyone would choose the iPhone4S for business over the Bold 9900 or SG3 given the 3 choices.
    jrohland and hpjrt like this.
    08-02-12 06:36 AM
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