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08-26-19 01:20 PM
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  1. RK_BB's Avatar
    Well said. This morning, got a Twitter notification about a bunch of former BlackBerry Mobile execs following Alcatel USA, so they really don't even care about PR.
    Can you add a link to the tweet?
    08-20-19 09:31 AM
  2. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Can you add a link to the tweet?
    Bunch is generally 12.... I really only know of one former BBMo exec. But I don't know what his following Alcatel would mean?

    I suspect any current BBMo exec, are getting checks signed from TCL... it's one family, so they ought to be following.

    I do think knowing who these former BBMo execs are would be interesting.
    08-20-19 09:40 AM
  3. joshualebowitz's Avatar
    Can you add a link to the tweet?
    There is no tweet to link. When a group of accounts that you follow all follow a new account, you get a notification.
    08-20-19 09:46 AM
  4. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Any marketing advisor would tell you it's 100x easier to rehabilitate a well-known brand than it is to create one.

    TCL's problem is that they confused brand recognition (and BlackBerry is a global brand with strong recognition, as is Palm, to a lesser degree) with brand reputation (BlackBerry is perceived as antiquated, and most people don't really remember exactly what Palm did.)

    TCL did many of the things they needed to do to begin the process of rehabilitating BlackBerry. They produced good products consistently, created a DBA company focused on the brand, and secured global, if a bit inconsistent, distribution.

    But they never made the significant investments in product and marketing needed to actually change the public's perception of what a BlackBerry device actually is today. This would have required a LOT more money spent

    1) on R&D and product design in the case of their slab offering
    2) on supporting distributors with marketing subsidies and incentives to win back shelf space
    3) on "this is the new BlackBerry" communications campaigns, including advertising, product placement, etc.

    This would have been very expensive (on the order of $500 million to $1 billion a year for 2-3 years). I don't think they were EVER prepared to do that.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Its the product that is the problem. I personally only know one person who owns a new BlackBerry.

    They needed a great all touch phone and a fully retro PKB device.

    They ended up with a decent enough phone that did not fully appeal to purists and had no appeal to the broader market.
    08-20-19 10:05 AM
  5. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Its the product that is the problem. I personally only know one person who owns a new BlackBerry.

    They needed a great all touch phone and a fully retro PKB device.

    They ended up with a decent enough phone that did not fully appeal to purists and had no appeal to the broader market.
    There have been five "all touch" BlackBerry Android's....

    I'm sure a OnePlus like devices in quality, specs and price would have sold well. It's clear that's wasn't the plan...nor feasible within the licensing arrangement.
    ppeters914 likes this.
    08-20-19 10:18 AM
  6. Bbnivende's Avatar
    There have been five "all touch" BlackBerry Android's....

    I'm sure a OnePlus like devices in quality, specs and price would have sold well. It's clear that's wasn't the plan...nor feasible within the licensing arrangement.
    TLC thought Enterprise and “prosumers” would pay extra for the BlackBerry software and security. They might have paid some more but only if the phone was as good as a One Plus.

    The all touch market is kind of peculiar. They wanted minimum bezels and a very good camera. Who knew?

    The Indonesia and Indian markets are price driven . They would never pay extra for software features.

    So partially the BlackBerry tax but mainly the hardware in my opinion.

    Ultimately you can not brand your way into sales success, you have to build up the brand with hood products. If one plus or LG etc had licensed the brand and offered a BlackBerry that worked as well, they probably would have had carrier support and sales even with the “tax”.
    Last edited by Bbnivende; 08-20-19 at 11:42 AM.
    08-20-19 11:01 AM
  7. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Its the product that is the problem. I personally only know one person who owns a new BlackBerry.

    They needed a great all touch phone and a fully retro PKB device.

    They ended up with a decent enough phone that did not fully appeal to purists and had no appeal to the broader market.
    The product was one problem. It was not the only one.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    08-20-19 11:49 AM
  8. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    TLC thought Enterprise and “prosumers” would pay extra for the BlackBerry software and security. They might have paid some more but only if the phone was as good as a One Plus.

    The all touch market is kind of peculiar. They wanted minimum bezels and a very good camera. Who knew?

    The Indonesia and Indian markets are price driven . They would never pay extra for software features.

    So partially the BlackBerry tax but mainly the hardware in my opinion.

    Ultimately you can not brand your way into sales success, you have to build up the brand with hood products. If one plus or LG etc had licensed the brand and offered a BlackBerry that worked as well, they probably would have had carrier support and sales even with the “tax”.
    The biggest problem is that BBMo wasn't really supported by channel partners or it's parent company from the beginning. I've always suspected this was for the carrier relationships that BlackBerry had in the postpaid channel as the Alcatel license had the prepaid channel pretty well covered.

    Tariff wars have accelerated whatever long-term plans TCL had in order to cut expenses and protect it's consumer electronics businesses plus it's emerging consumer appliance business. In the short-term, I feel TCL has sights on disrupting LG space in various sectors.
    08-20-19 01:40 PM
  9. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    TLC thought Enterprise and “prosumers” would pay extra for the BlackBerry software and security. They might have paid some more but only if the phone was as good as a One Plus.

    The all touch market is kind of peculiar. They wanted minimum bezels and a very good camera. Who knew?

    The Indonesia and Indian markets are price driven . They would never pay extra for software features.

    So partially the BlackBerry tax but mainly the hardware in my opinion.

    Ultimately you can not brand your way into sales success, you have to build up the brand with hood products. If one plus or LG etc had licensed the brand and offered a BlackBerry that worked as well, they probably would have had carrier support and sales even with the “tax”.
    It's very tough to be competitive in the smartphone market these days. Bottom line the Android Secure product wasn't really needed (it was a good idea in 2014), and the Brand's been damaged goods for almost a decade now. There wasn't a path to this being done successfully.

    Look at LG... with their own brand and pretty good devices, they are just burning money in the smartphone business. OnePlus is a successful part of Oppo which is a successful part of BKK Electronics - thus they have the economy of scale that TCL could only dream of.
    08-20-19 01:44 PM
  10. Bbnivende's Avatar
    The upcoming TCL T1 seems to be following their TV strategy - cheap but good . $220 to $330 US.

    In the current market , I would agree that the BB OS has very little value.

    I think that TCL can turn around their phone business with the cheap but good strategy.
    08-20-19 02:08 PM
  11. conite's Avatar
    The upcoming TCL T1 seems to be following their TV strategy - cheap but good . $220 to $330 US.

    In the current market , I would agree that the BB OS has very little value.

    I think that TCL can turn around their phone business with the cheap but good strategy.
    Let see a T1K and T1K Pro!

    Kinda joking, but not really.
    08-20-19 02:10 PM
  12. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    The biggest problem is that BBMo wasn't really supported by channel partners or it's parent company from the beginning. I've always suspected this was for the carrier relationships that BlackBerry had in the postpaid channel as the Alcatel license had the prepaid channel pretty well covered.

    Tariff wars have accelerated whatever long-term plans TCL had in order to cut expenses and protect it's consumer electronics businesses plus it's emerging consumer appliance business. In the short-term, I feel TCL has sights on disrupting LG space in various sectors.
    TCL was definitely not very supportive, from what I could tell. All the evidence suggests that they treated BlackBerry Mobile like a third party customer and wanted firm orders for batches of product rather than manufacturing to stock with replenishment thresholds. That's why AT&T still has KEYone stock while Amazon and Best Buy are stocked out of all KEY2 variants.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    08-20-19 02:28 PM
  13. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Let see a T1K and T1K Pro!

    Kinda joking, but not really.
    I’m game...
    08-20-19 02:33 PM
  14. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    TCL was definitely not very supportive, from what I could tell. All the evidence suggests that they treated BlackBerry Mobile like a third party customer and wanted firm orders for batches of product rather than manufacturing to stock with replenishment thresholds. That's why AT&T still has KEYone stock while Amazon and Best Buy are stocked out of all KEY2 variants.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Seeing the remaining AT&T KEYone inventory explained them not offering Key2 or Key2 LE hardware. Similar to when the VZW CDMA KEYone ended up VZW certified but not sold through carrier. TCL showed real intent for my usual skepticism when BBMo ownership setup under TCT and partially owned by TCL from the beginning. TCT with Alcatel, BlackBerry and even Palm brand, suggests even real brand separation from TCL itself.
    08-20-19 02:46 PM
  15. joeldf's Avatar
    The upcoming TCL T1 seems to be following their TV strategy - cheap but good . $220 to $330 US.
    Had to look it up.

    Nope. Everything I DON'T want in an all touch phone - big ol' spot of dead pixels on-screen, no place for my finger tips to hold without touching something on the screen, bunch of pointless lenses on the back...

    Oh well...
    08-20-19 03:12 PM
  16. Emaderton3's Avatar
    To me, Palm is a PDA. I had one. My wife had one. We both moved on to the BlackBerry Pearl 8100 from there.

    I know that Palm made phones too, but I really don't generally equate Palm with smartphones. It was a relatively brief period for them. And I think time has made it even foggier. BB had phones for a much longer period of time and (maybe up to now) never completely quit. Instead, it's now a damaged brand that a lot of people think doesn't really exist.

    A hard case for either brand.
    And probably how most people viewed BlackBerry and phones once full screen smart phones came out.
    08-20-19 07:28 PM
  17. Bfalcon1's Avatar
    BlackBerry should try to get Hub Apps preinstalled on Samsung phones and others.
    08-21-19 12:49 PM
  18. conite's Avatar
    BlackBerry should try to get Hub Apps preinstalled on Samsung phones and others.
    What's in it for Samsung? Will it increased their sales buy even one unit?
    08-21-19 12:50 PM
  19. joeldf's Avatar
    BlackBerry should try to get Hub Apps preinstalled on Samsung phones and others.
    Samsung already has a whole set of PM apps that covers everything BlackBerry offers, and more. I just happen to prefer the BlackBerry Inbox because you can set it to see your sent mail in the main list without having to change to the sent mail folder.
    08-21-19 12:59 PM
  20. Bfalcon1's Avatar
    What's in it for Samsung? Will it increased their sales buy even one unit?
    Was just thinking out loud since Microsoft apps will be pre installed. I know the ship has sailed...
    08-21-19 01:13 PM
  21. Bfalcon1's Avatar
    Samsung already has a whole set of PM apps that covers everything BlackBerry offers, and more. I just happen to prefer the BlackBerry Inbox because you can set it to see your sent mail in the main list without having to change to the sent mail folder.
    I agree 100% on the sent mail option. I think if Microsoft, Gmail or even Samsung adds that feature Inbox is dead. Surprised it has not already happened.
    08-21-19 01:15 PM
  22. SteinwayTransitCorp's Avatar
    What's in it for Samsung? Will it increased their sales buy even one unit?
    .5 units
    08-25-19 12:50 PM
  23. Sigewif's Avatar
    Who says investors are tired of mobile licencing revenue?

    And who says the real powers that be aren't completely focused on their new business ventures?
    I am not tired of it. It could be said that (at least some of the investors) are tired of not knowing what is going on. The way the small things are handled and communicated, (for not communicated) gives one a perception of how big things are handled. (Whether or not they really are handled that way). It is an impression which makes one wonder if it is the tip of the iceberg or just incidental.
    anon(10218918) likes this.
    08-25-19 01:47 PM
  24. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I am not tired of it. It could be said that (at least some of the investors) are tired of not knowing what is going on. The way the small things are handled and communicated, (for not communicated) gives one a perception of how big things are handled. (Whether or not they really are handled that way). It is an impression which makes one wonder if it is the tip of the iceberg or just incidental.
    Yeah if BB investors were happy, the stock wouldn't be so depressed right now.

    On the fundamentals they should be trading much higher... but we are moving into year six of the two year turn around. Chen saved BlackBerry from BB10 and the disaster that was smartphone. What he hasn't done yet is generate much in the way of profits, or shown real growth. Partly because legacy BlackBerry was still dying...

    I suspect that at the time of the announced licensing of the phone business, there was some hope that might lead to some much needed profitable revenue (just check out the fan investor board here - they fell hook line and sinker for all the potential millions of devices). But looks like it probable only was a negative... best to be rid of at this point. Which narrows BB potential revenue sources...
    Last edited by Dunt Dunt Dunt; 08-26-19 at 01:50 PM.
    08-26-19 01:20 PM
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