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  1. Platinum_2's Avatar
    Who says investors are tired of mobile licencing revenue?

    And who says the real powers that be aren't completely focused on their new business ventures?
    Can't find the shareholder meeting notes.

    I did not say shareholders were tired of mobile licensing revenue.

    I would suggest that there is not clear focus yet at BlackBerry. If there was, the market would not be so confused about who they are, what they do and why it matters.
    Last edited by Platinum_2; 08-17-19 at 12:44 PM.
    08-17-19 11:55 AM
  2. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I would suggest that as a fan site, it would require more article submissions by members to accomplish that.

    It's too wide a net to cast for a site administrator and editor.
    I think articles (not just opinions) by members would be great. But someone would have to edit. And select them, and that could open a van of worms.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    bh7171 likes this.
    08-17-19 12:19 PM
  3. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    So, basically BB Ltd is trying to cripple TCL's business much in the same way they did their own?

    Seems plausible.
    If it's my business and the choice is cripple it or lose money, Ima kneecap that sombitch with a crowbar.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    ppeters914 likes this.
    08-17-19 12:25 PM
  4. howarmat's Avatar
    I think articles (not just opinions) by members would be great. But someone would have to edit. And select them, and that could open a van of worms.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    pretty sure CB has always allowed for submissions from members. But they would be reviewed before posting yes @Bla1ze
    08-17-19 12:32 PM
  5. troglodrew's Avatar
    This brings up to why is BlackBerry Ltd is so interested in shutting down Unihertz?
    08-17-19 12:38 PM
  6. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    pretty sure CB has always allowed for submissions from members. But they would be reviewed before posting yes @Bla1ze
    I never knew that.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    08-17-19 12:38 PM
  7. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    As I said in another thread, I would have sold the patents to anything handset related. I would have re-deployed the proceeds to my "new" business. Then I would focus all resources on the new business and build my brand around it. If I can't get much for the patents, oh well....I guess they aren't worth much. But holding onto any of these resources likely does little to grow and expand my new business.

    It also creates confusion among investors and customers. Investors are left asking: Are we in mobile, or not? If we are, why? Does it add to our bottom line in a meaningful way with respect to other opportunities?

    Customers are left pondering: Does BlackBerry still make phones? Wait, they're Android now? I thought BlackBerry went out of business?

    BlackBerry is a "new" company that has been vocal about moving out of the handset business. Except they haven't. They're just doing it differently. They don't manufacture them, but they might as well since they have design control and influence.

    They keep a toe in the water...just in case...maybe...let's wait and see....might have a chance later.....if....

    It comes across looking as though the company lacks direction (because they do) and are grabbing onto and retaining anything they think "might" make money (because they are). Commendable. But, you must pursue things that actually make money and create value for shareholders in a substantial way. This, they have not done. I think their share price and market cap reflect this fact, and shareholder meetings make an outsider grimace.
    You’re confusing your mobile interests with definitely what’s best for BBL as company. Licensing allowed them control of the brand name related patents. Just like BB licensing BBM to Emtek allows control of any related technology and patents. No business should concern themselves with another business success as you explained.

    TCL negotiated a cheap deal for carrier relationships and Chen took some easy money for a company that needs easy monetization of unused assets. The problem is the patents are mostly interwoven behind the scenes with other BB Enterprise products such as BBMe and other mobile security.

    If assets can be sold for enough money, Chen has sold. They’ve also monetized parts of the patent business with patent licensing company. From when Chen took over, the company has turned over the assets of the company 180 degrees with only the debenture infusion and cash from asset sales. Everything bought and paid for like Cylance was from cash flow on hand.

    The large institutional shareholders that matter aren’t complaining since they’re generating income from their holdings writing calls and collaring their position as well.
    08-17-19 12:53 PM
  8. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I'm sure, for the right price, BlackBerry would consider licensing or selling the PKB patents without their name. In fact, they might prefer it at this point.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    08-17-19 12:58 PM
  9. conite's Avatar
    This brings up to why is BlackBerry Ltd is so interested in shutting down Unihertz?
    They don't care about Unihertz. They only want to (and have a legal obligation to) protect their IP.
    08-17-19 01:00 PM
  10. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    If it's my business and the choice is cripple it or lose money, Ima kneecap that sombitch with a crowbar.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    I’m picturing Sheriff Buford T Justice saying your quote.....
    Dunt Dunt Dunt and Ecm like this.
    08-17-19 01:03 PM
  11. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Can't find the shareholder meeting notes.

    I did not say shareholders were tired of mobile licensing revenue.

    I would suggest that there is not clear focus yet at BlackBerry. If there was, the market would not be so confused about who they are, what they do and why it matters.
    Worrying about the share price isn’t Chen’s job if the largest shareholders haven’t told him to worry about it. Acquisitions have been done in cash so the large shareholders obviously have some game plan that makes sense for them. Little shareholders either go along for the ride or sell to redeploy into a retail preferred holding.
    08-17-19 01:06 PM
  12. mrsimon's Avatar

    All this was valid until the beginning of 2019. From January on TCL/BlackBerry Mobile neither actively informed us nor answered our questions. And it's definitely not our fault because nothing has changed in our behavior.

    And only for the reason that we did not receive any information directly from TCL/BlackBerry Mobile, we did our own research. About PIE, about updates and upcoming devices. And all the information I posted on the BlackberryBase and here on CB I still stand.
    And what did you find out from your research?
    08-17-19 01:29 PM
  13. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Then investors will get screwed again because patents that were worth $$$$ will be worth $.
    Investors are only screwed if they believed BB's own evaluation of the worth of their patents - and tech patents at this point have a significant history of being worth much less than their valuation. But I'm pretty confident that the market adjusted out most of that valuation quite a while ago. Existing stockholders aren't holding out a lot of hope for a big PKB patent licensing windfall (unless they are CB fanboys, which would make them emotional investors rather than rational ones).
    08-17-19 01:32 PM
  14. Platinum_2's Avatar
    Worrying about the share price isn’t Chen’s job if the largest shareholders haven’t told him to worry about it. Acquisitions have been done in cash so the large shareholders obviously have some game plan that makes sense for them. Little shareholders either go along for the ride or sell to redeploy into a retail preferred holding.
    He has a bonus tied to share price. I'm sure it's on his mind.
    08-17-19 01:49 PM
  15. Paulelmar18's Avatar
    And what did you find out from your research?
    Search for "Disturbing news". I'm quoted in #1
    08-17-19 01:54 PM
  16. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    So, basically BB Ltd is trying to cripple TCL's business much in the same way they did their own?

    Seems plausible.
    He has a bonus tied to share price. I'm sure it's on his mind.
    Again, that’s Chen’s problem if he doesn’t meet objectives. Your original post is about BB having some obligations to helping TCL mobile phone business. I’m merely pointing out that Chen’s job is keeping his institutional bosses happy with direction all have agreed to direct company in while squeezing revenue from whoever and whenever.
    08-17-19 02:01 PM
  17. mrsimon's Avatar
    Search for "Disturbing news". I'm quoted in #1
    I cant find that thread!
    08-17-19 02:02 PM
  18. Paulelmar18's Avatar
    I cant find that thread!
    https://forums.crackberry.com/blackb...l#post13432878
    08-17-19 02:07 PM
  19. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I cant find that thread!
    https://forums.crackberry.com/blackb...-news-1173109/
    08-17-19 02:08 PM
  20. Bbnivende's Avatar
    TCL apparently has made the decision to retain Alcatel as their low priced basic smartphones and Kaios phones. They will likely use the TCL brand for their $300 to $400 all touch phones and higher priced foldables.

    I suspect that Xiaomi will help on the design / software side.

    BlackBerry is out in the cold because the Royalties and service fees are too high. There is probably a sweet spot where both BlackBerry and TCL could make a profit but perhaps low sales do not warrant the effort by either side.

    BlackBerry charged too much to allow TCL etc to sell a competitive all touch device . TCL needed to move up market and the BlackBerry brand and software would not facilitate this transition.

    Tony mentioned the high rate of returns being prohibitive for carriers. This is why I think the best use for BlackBerry keyboards and small screens would be in non- BlackBerry branded Kaios device.
    Last edited by Bbnivende; 08-17-19 at 02:52 PM.
    08-17-19 02:29 PM
  21. troglodrew's Avatar
    I wonder if the continued support of BB10 is the carrot BlackBerry is tossing its loyal customers since BlackBerry Android is probably a thing of the past.
    08-17-19 02:55 PM
  22. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    TCL apparently has made the decision to retain Alcatel as their low priced basic smartphones and Kaios phones. They will likely use the TCL brand for their $300 to $400 all touch phones and higher priced foldables.

    I suspect that Xiaomi will help on the design / software side.

    BlackBerry is out in the cold because the Royalties and service fees are too high. There is probably a sweet spot where both BlackBerry and TCL could make a profit but perhaps low sales do not warrant the effort by either side.

    BlackBerry charged too much to allow TCL etc to sell a competitive all touch device . TCL needed to move up market and the BlackBerry brand and software would not facilitate this transition.

    Tony mentioned the high rate of returns being prohibitive for carriers. This is why I think the best use for BlackBerry keyboards and small screens would be in non- BlackBerry branded Kaios device.
    In USA the Alcatel brand is being phased out completely for TCL as low end and up...
    08-17-19 02:57 PM
  23. conite's Avatar
    I wonder if the continued support of BB10 is the carrot BlackBerry is tossing its loyal customers since BlackBerry Android is probably a thing of the past.
    Nah.

    Nothing has changed with regards to BB10. EOL is still Dec 31st.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    08-17-19 03:05 PM
  24. Bbnivende's Avatar
    In USA the Alcatel brand is being phased out completely for TCL as low end and up...
    I know you have said that but I can not see any evidence on carrier sites, TCL sites, Alcatel sites or news reports.

    Alcatel is TCL’s cheap phone brand . Taking on these $100 etc phones would only devalue the up and coming TCL branding.

    Then again, TCL Communications is not exactly known for astute marketing.
    08-17-19 03:46 PM
  25. troglodrew's Avatar
    Question - If BBmo folds, would anyone expect BlackBerry Ltd to still support Hub+, DTEK, or anything other apps not associated with BlackBerry Enterprise?
    08-17-19 04:59 PM
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