1. intoToday's Avatar
    Hello everyone,

    I was having a conversation with a few friends recently about smartphones and OS's. I'm a BlackBerry loyalist, but my friend (who likes android, but has a BlackBerry) brought up a good point about BlackBerry.

    You need BIS to use the native email app.

    I started talking about security and all that, but thinking about it now, it actually seems like a valid point. Perhaps someone could bring up some more reasons. What would you say to this?

    Thanks!
    04-18-12 07:14 AM
  2. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Hello everyone,

    I was having a conversation with a few friends recently about smartphones and OS's. I'm a BlackBerry loyalist, but my friend (who likes android, but has a BlackBerry) brought up a good point about BlackBerry.

    You need BIS to use the native email app.

    I started talking about security and all that, but thinking about it now, it actually seems like a valid point. Perhaps someone could bring up some more reasons. What would you say to this?

    Thanks!
    BIS was RIM's method of delivering PUSH email service to devices when the only technology available was Polling email service, with RIM's Push service your device uses less battery.

    The Reason RIM uses BIS for email is because that is how they've always done it, and it is a revenue stream for them, today BIS for email COULD be an option as ActiveSync can perform pushing, now if that pushing is at the cost of battery life, that isn't known.

    What can be said is that BIS is used for a host of other applications including Compressing your email meaning you use less data, and you have a greater rate of delivery potential for your communication, in areas with strong coverage this matters not, but in low coverage areas you will experience better reliability.

    over all this is a debate that can't really be won without both parties having far more than the rudimentary knowledge being provided by me, and is very situational at best.
    04-18-12 07:19 AM
  3. jrohland's Avatar
    To the best of my knowledge BB phones don't have any way to schedule an email pull. They count on push to become aware of queued email. Without BES/BIS, they would have no way to check for email.

    Of course someone could write a standard IMAP4/POP3 email client.
    04-18-12 07:21 AM
  4. auto208562's Avatar
    I think security is not a great argument for bis as I read that the bis encryption on it is similar to choosing to use ssl with active sync.

    I would bring up data compression and data usage as a plus over other platforms.

    Also possibly the ease of use of the email format and setup in general of the blackberry...notifications, etc.
    04-18-12 07:23 AM
  5. T
    Security is a good argument when the data stored on a device is taken into consideration. Data can easily be extracted from locked iphones and android phones. Data cannot be extracted from a locked, password protected BlackBerry when a strong password and proper encryption settings are in use.
    04-18-12 07:31 AM
  6. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Security is a good argument when the data stored on a device is taken into consideration. Data can easily be extracted from locked iphones and android phones. Data cannot be extracted from a locked, password protected BlackBerry when a strong password and proper encryption settings are in use.
    the security you speak of has nothing to do with BIS email, and more with OS design,

    Though I agree that security should still be somewhat of a concern, if it is your primary concern. You and your contacts who need such security should be on a shared BES.
    04-18-12 08:02 AM
  7. T
    Well, I only brought it up because BIS versus SSL encryption was mentioned. I would think that the risk of someone finding your phone and having access to your emails (and other data) is much higher for a non-corporate user than risk of someone intercepting weakly encrypted SSL or BIS data. (That's never been a concern of mine. If it were, I would be on BES.) But I brought it up to show that mention of BIS encryption is often a strawman argument (and kind of pointless) when it comes to discussing benefits of BlackBerry versus other platforms. Essentially, I was agreeing with the poster who said that part about security being a nonissue when it comes to discussing the benefits of BIS and also ponting out that security of locally stored data on a BlackBerry is a real benefit when it comes to BlackBerry that shouldn't be overlooked.
    Last edited by Tnis; 04-18-12 at 09:18 AM.
    04-18-12 08:49 AM
  8. dfb8085's Avatar
    Since the PB uses active sync and it cannot delete messages from the server like BIS can if the BB10 devices use active sync , which they most likely will, can we expect a BIS like experience with it or is it going to be more what we are experiencing with the active sync on the PB?
    04-18-12 09:29 AM
  9. jamesp614's Avatar
    I am using my BlackBerry without BIS and the only way to obtain email without BIS in the native email application is ShangMail out of China. Howver, I am not comfortable having a Chinese company access my emails via their intermediary servers.

    I therefore use the LogicMail email client as there is no intermediary between me and my email server. I find that push mail is a need for business users and not a consumer who can wait 5-30 minutes for emails to be pulled via POP or IMAP.

    This is the issue RIM is having in that they need to split the product line into Business and Consumer models. The Business model should include BBM, BES/BIS, compresses Internet data (browser) and a data plan. The Consumer model should offer BBM, and POP3/IMAP only email for the native client with no data plan (data plan provide by the carrier) and browser data not routed and compressed through the NOC (causes unnecessary slowness).

    Until RIM addresses this difference in needs, they will continue to flounder.
    04-18-12 09:31 AM
  10. jrohland's Avatar
    You could setup a Gmail account and have it pull your emails. Then open the Gmail Web interface on your BB. That would work but you would have to actively refresh the Web page when you want to check for email. And, of course, there would be no notification on the BB.

    RIM should offer limited BIS services at a much lower cost. If all you want to pay for is email (and maybe BBM), they could offer that at a much lower price.
    04-19-12 07:08 AM
  11. Mystic205's Avatar
    You are incorrect... ask the FBI

    FBI, stumped by pimp's Android pattern lock, serves warrant on Google

    Security is a good argument when the data stored on a device is taken into consideration. Data can easily be extracted from locked iphones and android phones. Data cannot be extracted from a locked, password protected BlackBerry when a strong password and proper encryption settings are in use.
    04-19-12 08:47 AM
  12. dfb8085's Avatar
    I am totally confused. With BB10 are we going to loose out ability to receive timely emails? Is this active sync thing going to be as good or worse? If we don't have BIS then are our data plans going to go down in price since part of what we pay apparently is for BIS? I'mall mixed up.
    04-19-12 09:08 AM
  13. lnichols's Avatar
    Blackberry's implementation of e-mail via the BIS puts the processing, communications, etc of e-mail and BBM from the phone and puts it at a centralized server. Instead of having the phone poll a server per e-mail account all day long, the BIS polls the e-mail servers, and if it finds something, pushes it to the phone. This makes the phone work less, the data used less too. The drawback to this solution is when the BIS is not available, the phone is useless for e-mail, BBM and web. With the Playbook using EAS, the device polls on its own via my Bridge, and doesn't require BIS to be up to get e-mail. It gets e-mail just as fast, but my Blackberry's battery consumption has increased when I take my Playbook to work for the day since the Native e-mail apps were added. This is why iPhones and Droids used to have abysmal battery life, but as processing power to power capabilities have improved with technology it is becoming less and less of an issue. The processors that RIM is waiting on for BB10 devices are supposed to use 60% less power than the current dual core processors available in phones now while still being more powerful than the current phones.

    My guess is that when BB10 arrives you will either see BIS become only relevant for BBM on the BB10 devices, or it will be an extra paid service to keep it for e-mail and web if you want to use them for the data/battery savings. The device will be able to function without the BIS, except for BBM. BIS will need to morph into more of a free cloud like service similar to what Apple and Google are providing IMHO.
    04-19-12 09:29 AM
  14. Mystic205's Avatar
    No need to be confused, this is simply a discussion about BIS and its costs and benefits..

    AFAIK tHere has be no information or even rumor about BB10 not supporting BIS nor BB10 being available without BIS... so situation normal both with your email and the normal confusion here in the forum

    I am totally confused. With BB10 are we going to loose out ability to receive timely emails? Is this active sync thing going to be as good or worse? If we don't have BIS then are our data plans going to go down in price since part of what we pay apparently is for BIS? I'mall mixed up.
    04-19-12 09:30 AM
  15. dfb8085's Avatar
    If BB10 devices handle email the same way a iPhone or Android device does then to me we will still be ok. I've tried android and it was such a hassle to use. You have the default email app and then any number of email apps from the market and my god I meant more time downloading and uninstalling than I did anything else. It was such a pain I couldn't wait to get back to my BB. That was way over a year ago. I hope that the BB10 phones handle and deal with email a little better than the PB. It seems to me to be missing something. Anyway I guess will tell. I'm still using my 9800 with OS6 waiting on OS10. Hope it turns out ok
    04-19-12 09:46 AM
  16. auto208562's Avatar
    Active sync on ios is just as timely as bis. Encryption is equivalent if you use ssl. I assume it will be similar to pb but thats just speculation. One advantage is that you can see all your email folders as opposed to just inbox. Not sure on pricing as for att in states, it is same price already.
    04-19-12 10:59 AM
  17. hornlovah's Avatar
    The following statement in the Application and Affidavit for Search Warrant is factually incorrect:

    Without the Google email login and password, the cellular telephone's memory can not be accessed.
    Obviously, the phone was not rooted, did not have an unlocked bootloader, or USB debugging enabled. Obtaining the pimp's Gmail username and password via search warrant was prudent and the easiest way to obtain data from the phone. If Google was unable to provide that info, they would have obtained a JTAG or a chip-off dump of the phone's NAND memory. These two processes involve specialized equipment and expertise, but the scripts to obtain pattern lock codes from these dumps are in the public domain.
    04-19-12 10:13 PM
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