1. BoldLife's Avatar
    Hi All,

    I have currently been research the Bold 9700 as my first Blackberry. I am jumping ship from the Windows Mobile (ATT Tilt), but before I make the decision (tomorrow) to get the Bold, I have a few questions I was hoping to get clarified.

    I have read over 6 pages of threads already and while I got a few points, there were so many disagreements and pointless arguments in the threads (i.e. BB w/o data = car w/o wheels) that the threads quickly become more confusing than helpful.

    So I do not plan on getting data with the 9700 because I have 24/7 WiFi (school, apartment, courtroom, etc) and I am looking at the BB because of the e-mail client. Now I know you can use the 9700 on WiFi w/o a data plan with limitations. My question is what are those limitations in regards to e-mail usage?

    I would want to access my Gmail account and my Outlook Web Access e-mail on the 9700. I don't search the web on my phone so I am not concerned with that. I may want to use an instant messaging program from time to time (rarely). But my main concern is having access to my Gmail and OWA e-mail accounts.

    Other than that, I will be using the 9700 for GPS at times.

    Sorry to start a thread like this again but I have researched a lot on here and Google and had these specific e-mail questions I wanted clarified. For those of you who are going to make arguments without any insight (i.e. car without wheels) or asking me why I am willing to pay so much and not use the full potential, please don't reply. Hopefully this thread can be useful to others. Plus I am getting a brand new 9700 for only $40 so I don't really care if you think I am not using it to its max potential. I just have a specific need that I think the 9700 will be good for and the phone looks great.

    Thanks in advance.
    06-06-10 03:41 PM
  2. c_86's Avatar
    Ok...

    if you access your emails via the hotspot browsers (when connected to wifi using the broswer) then yes you can get access just like as if you were to log into it via your browser at home... without a data plan you cannot get push, meaning you cannot link them so that as soon as you get an email it will be on your bb in youe messages folder... no way around that one... make sense?

    so for email if you want, you can just simply launch the browser and go to www.gmail.com and log in, and for OWA just go to the webpage you would use to log in and then you can get those emails like that...

    GPS will not work without a data plan i dont believe

    IM, unless you get a 3rd party app like beejive then you cannot use the RIM supplied clients as those require a data plan...

    now the reason why these will not work is becuase the device requires something called service books... for each function there is its own service book. these are needed for the device to know what to do with that application... so if i have MSN on my device, i will have a service book for MSN, and one service book per email account i have attached via push on my device... without a data plan you will have some service books but those are limited to wifi (like wifi browser service book)

    Now that being said, what you want to do is possible, but its time consuming (not much more)... just curious tho, if there a reason why you dont want a data plan? the reason i ask is because some carriers (and i think AT&T is included in there) have a low data plan that will allow you to just have email, IMs, but no browsing (on the network))... so i just wanted to suggest that as a way for you to get all your emails right away without having to take the time to open the browser, go to the site, log in, and all the while waiting for those sites to load... just a suggestion

    hope this helped answer your questions!
    06-06-10 04:10 PM
  3. bubba b bubba's Avatar
    hey i understand ur situation, i too have access to wifi pretty much all day long, but i dont think you would be able to get the full effect of a bb without some kind of data plan. i have a limited data plan myself which is just unlimited email and IM. if for no other reason u should get a data plan for just the BBM!!!! lol. with this type of data plan tho, u wont be able to view pics n graphics in emails. i will be upgrading to a better data plan as soon as i get a job :s I would recomend getting some kind of data plan, u cant go wrong
    06-06-10 05:19 PM
  4. BoldLife's Avatar
    Ok...

    if you access your emails via the hotspot browsers (when connected to wifi using the broswer) then yes you can get access just like as if you were to log into it via your browser at home... without a data plan you cannot get push, meaning you cannot link them so that as soon as you get an email it will be on your bb in youe messages folder... no way around that one... make sense?

    so for email if you want, you can just simply launch the browser and go to www.gmail.com and log in, and for OWA just go to the webpage you would use to log in and then you can get those emails like that...

    GPS will not work without a data plan i dont believe

    IM, unless you get a 3rd party app like beejive then you cannot use the RIM supplied clients as those require a data plan...

    now the reason why these will not work is becuase the device requires something called service books... for each function there is its own service book. these are needed for the device to know what to do with that application... so if i have MSN on my device, i will have a service book for MSN, and one service book per email account i have attached via push on my device... without a data plan you will have some service books but those are limited to wifi (like wifi browser service book)

    Now that being said, what you want to do is possible, but its time consuming (not much more)... just curious tho, if there a reason why you dont want a data plan? the reason i ask is because some carriers (and i think AT&T is included in there) have a low data plan that will allow you to just have email, IMs, but no browsing (on the network))... so i just wanted to suggest that as a way for you to get all your emails right away without having to take the time to open the browser, go to the site, log in, and all the while waiting for those sites to load... just a suggestion

    hope this helped answer your questions!
    Thanks for the clarification. That was very helpful. I will have to look into the low-usage data plans. I didn't want data just because it seemed like an unnecessary addition. On my Tilt, I was logged into the WiFi 24/7 so I would get e-mail updates every 30 minutes. So the BB looked like the best item out there considering all the great praise I hear about its e-mail system. But if I don't get the great e-mail client without data, I will have to re-assess my position.

    Settle for a WinMo smartphone with its shortcomings or BB w/ data?
    06-06-10 05:49 PM
  5. Andiio's Avatar
    Just to be on the safe side, user an alternative browser such as Opera, and don't use any BlackBerry branded internet apps such as BBM, because they'll charge you even connected via Wi-Fi.. You can alter some things such as your BlackBerry browser though, so that it won't (or at least shouldn't) connect to the internet unless there's a Wi-Fi connection. That should save you any accidental costs.
    06-06-10 05:52 PM
  6. c_86's Avatar
    andiio you are incorrect... BBM will not work without a data plan, connected to wifi or not... the service books are not there unless you have the data plan... the icon wont even show without a data plan...

    to the OP

    you need a data plan to get the email pushed because its the RIM servers that are doing it for you... you have to pay for that access (not saying you have to in your case just telling you how it is and why its like that)... essentially RIMs server are constantly looking at your email account and as soon as it sees a new email appear boom it pushes to the device... no data plan means no access to the servers... make sense?

    so like i said if you dont want a data plan you can go the longer route and access you email via the browser... and i am pretty sure AT&T has a $15 data plan that will let you have have unlimited email, IM, BBM... just no browsing (unless on wifi)

    i understand where you are coming from though were you are in wifi access all the time, but look at the data plan this way... gives you access to the servers that do all the work for you (getting emails, sending emails etc) unfortunately that is the way RIM is, and its what makes them so great when it comes to emails, data, and security.

    Good luck in your decision! let us know if there are any other questions we can answer... i'll keep my eye on this thread in case you have any others
    06-06-10 06:40 PM
  7. The Critic's Avatar
    I've been using my 8900 without a data plan for almost nine months. You can access webbased e-mail with the hotspot browser and use the beejive as your IM client.

    However, starting tomorrow, ATT will be offering 200mb of data for $14.99/mo on all smartphones. 200mb is a decent amount of data for a blackberry. I have also been using google voice for sms lately, so once I add the data plan, I will cancel and block the SMS feature on my phone.

    So for $15/mo, you can have data access and unlimited SMS. How can you beat that?
    06-06-10 07:15 PM
  8. c_86's Avatar
    I've been using my 8900 without a data plan for almost nine months. You can access webbased e-mail with the hotspot browser and use the beejive as your IM client.

    However, starting tomorrow, ATT will be offering 200mb of data for $14.99/mo on all smartphones. 200mb is a decent amount of data for a blackberry. I have also been using google voice for sms lately, so once I add the data plan, I will cancel and block the SMS feature on my phone.

    So for $15/mo, you can have data access and unlimited SMS. How can you beat that?
    and with the OP being on WiFi all the time 200 MBs is alot of data... so you should be safe!
    06-06-10 07:41 PM
  9. Andiio's Avatar
    andiio you are incorrect... BBM will not work without a data plan, connected to wifi or not... the service books are not there unless you have the data plan... the icon wont even show without a data plan...
    Eh? I said it wouldn't work. Although I suppose I wasn't clear in explaining why, so cheers for cleaning that up.

    The reason why I said that is because when I received my BlackBerry, I didn't have a Dataplan, as it wasn't activated on my account along with BIS until the following day. However, I was still able to access all the Blackberry features when connected via Wi-Fi, albeit I was charged for the use, about 80p to use BBM for a couple of hours of chat. I did have the service books, which were pushed to my BlackBerry when I received network coverage.

    Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I just though I would relay this information to the OP just incase, as this is what I experienced last Wednesday when I received my BlackBerry
    Last edited by Andiio; 06-06-10 at 07:52 PM.
    06-06-10 07:42 PM
  10. BoldLife's Avatar
    Thank you guys so much for the help.

    Two more questions:

    1. Would either of you know if the ATT Tilt/Microsoft Direct Push also requires data? On my Tilt, I had to set up an e-mail account and either sent a predetermined Send/Receive time (ie 30 minutes) or manually do a Send/Receive. But I wouldn't get push e-mail.

    2. Why is data required for GPS on BB? On the Tilt, I had iGo Amigo as my GPS software. If I get a similar program (haven't found any yet) would I be able to use that with the GPS chip?

    Sorry for so many questions. I'm very diligent about purchasing items.

    Also, it is easy to remove ATT bloatware from the 9700? I saw a program on here that allowed you to do it through a PC connection, but I wasn't sure if it worked with the 9700.
    06-06-10 08:06 PM
  11. c_86's Avatar
    1. Would either of you know if the ATT Tilt/Microsoft Direct Push also requires data? On my Tilt, I had to set up an e-mail account and either sent a predetermined Send/Receive time (ie 30 minutes) or manually do a Send/Receive. But I wouldn't get push e-mail.

    A: This i cannot answer... as i simply dont know...


    2. Why is data required for GPS on BB? On the Tilt, I had iGo Amigo as my GPS software. If I get a similar program (haven't found any yet) would I be able to use that with the GPS chip?

    A: yes the BB uses the chip, BUT it needs access to maps which it gets from the internet... BBmaps downloads the maps you need as you use it... hence why a data plan is needed (and to get BBmaps you need the service books)


    Sorry for so many questions. I'm very diligent about purchasing items.
    This is a GOOD thing! There are alot of people that dont and buy anyways and are pissed because it does this that way, or doesnt do that, or blah blah blag lol so good on you!

    Also, it is easy to remove ATT bloatware from the 9700? I saw a program on here that allowed you to do it through a PC connection, but I wasn't sure if it worked with the 9700.
    Yes there are a couple programs like shrinkOS and some others (i personally do it myself but what i do is for more advanced users (no offense))

    Come on, keep bringing the questions!!! LOL i can take it!
    06-06-10 09:03 PM
  12. c_86's Avatar
    Eh? I said it wouldn't work. Although I suppose I wasn't clear in explaining why, so cheers for cleaning that up.

    The reason why I said that is because when I received my BlackBerry, I didn't have a Dataplan, as it wasn't activated on my account along with BIS until the following day. However, I was still able to access all the Blackberry features when connected via Wi-Fi, albeit I was charged for the use, about 80p to use BBM for a couple of hours of chat. I did have the service books, which were pushed to my BlackBerry when I received network coverage.

    Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I just though I would relay this information to the OP just incase, as this is what I experienced last Wednesday when I received my BlackBerry
    apparently i mis-understood what you meant... i re-read it and i see what you were saying now its all good, my bad! you possibly had the service books from a previous device? idk... UK apparently does things a like different! LOL no offense
    06-06-10 09:04 PM
  13. jeff.parent's Avatar
    If you have ATT I'm sure you'll be required to have a data plan if you are buying the BB through an upgrade. Otherwise they will just be unaware of your change and should be fine.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    06-06-10 10:59 PM
  14. The Critic's Avatar
    If you have ATT I'm sure you'll be required to have a data plan if you are buying the BB through an upgrade. Otherwise they will just be unaware of your change and should be fine.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    If you purchased a smartphone before the cut-off, you are grandfathered in and you do not need a data plan. However, once you change phones, you will need to have the data plan. So, this entire discussion is likely to be a moot point for the OP.
    06-06-10 11:04 PM
  15. BoldLife's Avatar
    If you purchased a smartphone before the cut-off, you are grandfathered in and you do not need a data plan. However, once you change phones, you will need to have the data plan. So, this entire discussion is likely to be a moot point for the OP.
    I have a very good connection so I can get a Blackberry or any other smartphone and not be worried about data plans being forced on me by AT&T. I am just trying to figure out what my best option is considering my desire to not have a data plan. Or whether it is best to just get a data plan.

    I love the Blackberry Bold 9700. It looks and feels amazing. You can tell its a quality built phone. I have also researched a lot about Blackberry and most of the complaints about it from current and long time users is the "lack" of a modernized OS (read: something fun for the children --> i.e. IPhone) and I could care less about not having games or goofy apps on my phone. However, the data thing still has me iffy.

    On the other hand, I could get a Tilt 2 and flash a new Rom because most of the complaint with that phone is in regards to the stock ATT rom. I just tested my Tilt and I could get push e-mail through the WiFi. I would also get a lot of the apps to work (i.e. gps) without a data plan. But despite HTC's best to cover up the hideous Windows Mobile, its scary knowing that is whats powering up the Tilt 2.

    And since both phones will cost me the same ($40) and both will be new, it just comes down to whether I want to no data + decent e-mail or data + good e-mail.
    06-06-10 11:22 PM
  16. The Critic's Avatar
    The problem is that as the CSR explained it to me, the only way I can maintain my grandfathered "no data" option is to keep my current phone or obtain a warranty replacement. Any other change will result in the system automatically adding a data plan onto the account.

    As I understand it, the CSR can take off the data plan, but the system will automatically add it back on next month. So once you change from your current smartphone, you're pretty much screwed. Now maybe you have a way of bypassing all of this, but I'd make sure you are aware of what you're getting yourself into.
    06-06-10 11:31 PM
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