02-07-12 03:28 AM
131 123 ...
tools
  1. Tex01's Avatar
    Does anyone know how RIM's oversease labor practices stack up against Apple's. I know that today they manufacture their phones in Mexico, Taiwan, Hungary, and Malaysia. Seems to me they could use this to their advantage if they do better in this area.
    01-29-12 03:51 PM
  2. RoseBud68's Avatar
    Does anyone know how RIM's oversease labor practices stack up against Apple's. I know that today they manufacture their phones in Mexico, Taiwan, Hungary, and Malaysia. Seems to me they could use this to their advantage if they do better in this area.
    I'm assuming a lot better then Apple as one of the main factory has had safety issues & concerns. They had an exposing in on & today there is talk about workers committing suicide.
    01-29-12 05:40 PM
  3. TGR1's Avatar
    I'm assuming a lot better then Apple as one of the main factory has had safety issues & concerns. They had an exposing in on & today there is talk about workers committing suicide.
    Hmm, upon what facts are you basing your assumptions? I don't know either way.

    The events you mentioned are hardly new, just getting major exposure via recent NYT and media rehashings (oooh, evil media).

    FWIW, to clarify for other posters, Foxconn, which makes iPhones for Apple *as well as computers, etc. for a huge roster of tech companies*, is the one embroiled with the suicides issue. Pegatron is contracted to make iPads and two sites had explosions likely due to accumulation of aluminum dust.

    Keep reading and Googling (Binging?) as a number of journalists and watch groups have started speaking up that the original NYT articles has some misinformation. Like most things in life, very little is wholly black or white.
    01-29-12 05:52 PM
  4. anthogag's Avatar
    Probably better than Apple...their factories aren't in China.

    I could be wrong...but I think I read somewhere that RIM owns the factories it makes its phones in
    01-29-12 06:01 PM
  5. dandbj13's Avatar
    Does anyone know how RIM's oversease labor practices stack up against Apple's. I know that today they manufacture their phones in Mexico, Taiwan, Hungary, and Malaysia. Seems to me they could use this to their advantage if they do better in this area.
    If you are only interested in scoring a few worthless points against Apple and not the state of Chinese labor, it seems you are just as guilty of exploitation. I won't even bother asking how many products you own that come from the same part of the world. What would be the point.

    What would you have Apple do? Perhaps they should unilaterally, single-handedly fix China. That really would be magical and revolutionary.
    01-29-12 06:02 PM
  6. anthogag's Avatar
    If you are only interested in scoring a few worthless points against Apple and not the state of Chinese labor, it seems you are just as guilty of exploitation. I won't even bother asking how many products you own that come from the same part of the world. What would be the point.

    What would you have Apple do? Perhaps they should unilaterally, single-handedly fix China. That really would be magical and revolutionary.


    Apple currently has close to $100 billion dollars in the bank.

    They most likely new about the exploitation in China and turned a blind eye to all of it to attain this mountain of cash.

    If this turns-out to be true, as media digs deeper, it will expose a rotten core
    alnamvet68 and nuangel2 like this.
    01-29-12 06:17 PM
  7. gord888's Avatar
    If you are only interested in scoring a few worthless points against Apple and not the state of Chinese labor, it seems you are just as guilty of exploitation. I won't even bother asking how many products you own that come from the same part of the world. What would be the point.

    What would you have Apple do? Perhaps they should unilaterally, single-handedly fix China. That really would be magical and revolutionary.
    the reason apple is beimg singled out is because they have the money and power to force changes. they have billions in the bank and suppliers and manufacturers begging to build for them... they can force change if they were willing to sacrifice a little on their profit margins.



    Sent from my BlackBerry Runtime for Android Apps using Tapatalk
    01-29-12 06:18 PM
  8. dandbj13's Avatar
    Apple currently has close to $100 billion dollars in the bank.

    They most likely new about the exploitation in China and turned a blind eye to all of it to attain this mountain of cash.

    If this turns-out to be true, as media digs deeper, it will expose a rotten core
    By Western standards, ALL Chinese labor is exploitation! You think the world doesn't already know that? What do you think Apple did that singles them out for derision? When the media digs deeper, they will find that Apple has done more and been more up front about the issues with Chinese labor.
    01-29-12 06:22 PM
  9. dandbj13's Avatar
    the reason apple is beimg singled out is because they have the money and power to force changes. they have billions in the bank and suppliers and manufacturers begging to build for them... they can force change if they were willing to sacrifice a little on their profit margins.
    You know who has the power to take on this problem? The government! If there is a problem with the exploitation of Chinese people, why is the Chinese government not responsible? What of the US government? Canada? Europe? Is Apple a government? This is not a factory problem; it's a government problem. Apple should not be penalized simply because they are more successful at the same game everyone else is playing.
    01-29-12 06:29 PM
  10. anthogag's Avatar
    the reason apple is beimg singled out is because they have the money and power to force changes. they have billions in the bank and suppliers and manufacturers begging to build for them... they can force change if they were willing to sacrifice a little on their profit margins.



    Sent from my BlackBerry Runtime for Android Apps using Tapatalk

    I think you're right. Apple looks like a company that values innovation and yet it's business practices might turn-out to be old-fashioned exploitation
    Last edited by anthogag; 01-29-12 at 06:48 PM.
    01-29-12 06:37 PM
  11. ALToronto's Avatar
    Nobody in this business is innocent. I am less concerned about labour in China (at least it's all adults who work in these factories of their own free will) than I am about conflict minerals that people are waging wars over in Congo. I think Apple has managed to find a conflict-free supply, but RIM is still buying Congolese rare earths.

    Can anyone confirm or deny? Would be a major PR score for RIM if they could say that african kids are no longer turned into soldiers or sold into slavery on their account.
    xandermac likes this.
    01-29-12 06:42 PM
  12. anthogag's Avatar
    By Western standards, ALL Chinese labor is exploitation! You think the world doesn't already know that? What do you think Apple did that singles them out for derision? When the media digs deeper, they will find that Apple has done more and been more up front about the issues with Chinese labor.

    Your values change when you travel to another country?

    If a business partner in another country employs children in factories, makes them work 14 hour days 7 days a week and you knew about it, would you continue to do business with this partner...or would you demand change or find another partner

    If you chose to turn a blind eye and were later exposed by media then you're in the same boat as Apple
    01-29-12 06:47 PM
  13. anon(757282)'s Avatar
    You know who has the power to take on this problem? The government! If there is a problem with the exploitation of Chinese people, why is the Chinese government not responsible? What of the US government? Canada? Europe? Is Apple a government? This is not a factory problem; it's a government problem. Apple should not be penalized simply because they are more successful at the same game everyone else is playing.
    No, this is squarely an Apple problem. And a problem greatly amplified by Apple knowing about it and doing nothing about it. Meanwhile they make record profits on the corpses of the Chinese workers. Apple has absolute control over this, by demanding human rights compliance in their contracts and monitoring to make sure there is compliance. They have direct financial influence on Foxconn and can pull the business if they fail to comply. That power is far greater than a bureaucratic government that has little motivation.

    Meanwhile, RIM is noted for their philanthropy and charitable work. Who would you rather support?
    01-29-12 06:48 PM
  14. gord888's Avatar
    You know who has the power to take on this problem? The government! If there is a problem with the exploitation of Chinese people, why is the Chinese government not responsible? What of the US government? Canada? Europe? Is Apple a government? This is not a factory problem; it's a government problem. Apple should not be penalized simply because they are more successful at the same game everyone else is playing.
    chimese government can do a lot of things if it weren't corrupt... bt it is... and those who arent, don't last long.

    apple shoukdnt be penalized, but they are in a position to stop playing a distructive game, and push to change the rules.

    Sent from my BlackBerry Runtime for Android Apps using Tapatalk
    01-29-12 06:49 PM
  15. anthogag's Avatar
    chimese government can do a lot of things if it weren't corrupt... bt it is... and those who arent, don't last long.

    apple shoukdnt be penalized, but they are in a position to stop playing a distructive game, and push to change the rules.

    Sent from my BlackBerry Runtime for Android Apps using Tapatalk

    Apple has $100 billion in the bank.

    They could've demanded change $70 billion dollars ago...
    fanatical likes this.
    01-29-12 06:54 PM
  16. anthogag's Avatar
    Nobody in this business is innocent. I am less concerned about labour in China (at least it's all adults who work in these factories of their own free will) than I am about conflict minerals that people are waging wars over in Congo. I think Apple has managed to find a conflict-free supply, but RIM is still buying Congolese rare earths.

    Can anyone confirm or deny? Would be a major PR score for RIM if they could say that african kids are no longer turned into soldiers or sold into slavery on their account.


    Apple chose to avoid conflict...it didn't find a conflict-free supply
    01-29-12 07:05 PM
  17. Tex01's Avatar
    In the 60 minutes expose it said making the phones in the N America would add a whopping $65 per phone to the cost. RIM doesn't own their own factories however I have to believe they are of higher standards.
    01-29-12 07:42 PM
  18. dandbj13's Avatar
    Alright! You guys have finally convinced me by the power of your unbiased arguments. Let's all agree to boycott and throw out all products built or otherwise influenced by non-Western human-rights standards. Hold on, I've just about got all the electronics out of my house, along with just about everything else. Once I'm done with this post, I will dump the computer. OK! Who's with me?

    Somebody...

    Anybody...

    Wait a minute! Don't tell me all this human-rights fervor was just a thinly veiled disguise for another anti-Apple scree. How disappointing. You guys are just mad because Apple has a $100M in the bank and RIM... Yes, it's all becoming clear.
    01-29-12 08:12 PM
  19. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    The American media is biased against American companies.

    Soon, salespeople will follow suit!

    Mobile post via Tapatalk
    01-29-12 08:16 PM
  20. dandbj13's Avatar
    One more thing...

    Samsung is pushing out almost as many phones as Apple. I believe Nokia is still the leader in total handsets. I shudder to think where those craptacular phones are made. Almost every Android partner is Asian. Where do you think that labor comes from. Google commands more manufacturers who produce more products for them than any one company in the world. MS is the leader of the PC industry. Just about every Windows PC kit comes from the same factories in question.

    Every one of these companies have more skin in the Chinese labor game than Apple, yet Apple is the only one we are talking about. That's how we know it is nothing more than a witch-hunt orchestrated by those jealous competitors Apple has crushed. If we cared about Chinese Labor conditions, we would have called on the even more established giants in the industry to do something about it a long time ago.
    Last edited by dandbj13; 01-29-12 at 08:28 PM.
    01-29-12 08:26 PM
  21. dave1701's Avatar
    Chinese people wouldn't work there if the conditions were better elsewhere. The workers are benefiting just as much as companies are. Just because we have a higher standard of living does not mean that companies are exploiting people.
    Last edited by dave1701; 01-30-12 at 07:15 AM.
    01-29-12 08:40 PM
  22. louzer's Avatar
    Is there an app for that?
    01-29-12 09:07 PM
  23. Dapper37's Avatar
    http://www.rim.com/investors/pdf/Cod...Principles.pdf
    ^link to RIMs code of conduct.

    The same standards are applied to their suppliers.
    01-29-12 09:35 PM
  24. anthogag's Avatar
    RIMs code of conduct, thanks

    The issue may be Apple has a similar code but didn't 'live it'. That's the issue

    ...sure it goes after Samsung like stink on a troll but why didn't Apple enforce its own code of conduct
    Last edited by anthogag; 01-29-12 at 09:49 PM.
    01-29-12 09:47 PM
  25. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Interesting article here. I was curious about this issue, so I googled and came up with this article: Do You Know Who Manufactured Your Blackberry? - Forbes

    (Yes, I know it is a Forbes article, so it must be "biased", but suspend that built-in refrain for a brief moment).

    The author is discussing what he deems to be parrying by RIM with regards to encryption keys and Indian authorities, but what he dug up is somewhat relevant to this issue. Check out the suppliers info:

    So where exactly are Blackberrys made? If I were a security-conscious customer, I’d want to know the answer to that question up front but I challenge you to find it mentioned anywhere on the RIM website. When a company doesn’t readily acknowledge its manufacturing supply chain, it tingles my paranoia reflex. Here’s what I learned after about 30 minutes of work. It ain’t good if you’re security-conscious.

    According to this 2009 Bloomberg article, RIM’s five biggest suppliers account for 90% of its production costs. They are:

    Elcoteq SE: Elcoteq is a Finnish company with a global factory network that includes “a regional office in Hong Kong, branch office of Beijing in Shenzhen, an Engineering Service Center and after-market services unit in Beijing and high-volume manufacturing units in Beijing and Dongguan.”

    Jabil Circuit, Inc.: Jabil is a successful U.S. multinational company whose customers include Apple, Cisco, GE, IBM, and Research In Motion. Much of its manufacturing is done in Asia. “Prior to 2005, it acquired a Lucent Technologies plant in Shanghai, China. The company later added the electronics manufacturing business of Varian Inc. to its arsenal. It opened new facilities in China, India, and Ukraine, and expanded plants in Hungary, Malaysia, Mexico, and the United States. During 2006, Jabil set its sights on Taiwan Green Point Enterprises Co., a manufacturer of plastic casings used for items including cell phones, iPods, and Blackberry devices.”

    Multi-Fineline Electronix Inc.: A U.S. company who makes RIM’s flexible circuit boards at its manufacturing facilities in Suzhou, China.

    QUALCOMM is another important supplier who’s CDMA development center is in Beijing although it’s not clear which of its many overseas facilities supplies RIM.
    Again, I know this article won't matter; Forbes hates RIM like everyone else. But I still hold that Apple is not singularly evil, and/or (please do not stone me) RIM may not be so lily-white.

    Just a thought.
    lotuslanderz likes this.
    01-29-12 09:53 PM
131 123 ...
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD