1. rollingrock1988's Avatar
    So can someone also pm of a new forum??? I'd appreciate it.

    I'm not saying that I haven't voiced my concerns about RIM, what loyal user hasn't? But I have said many times that I can't believe how many people are allowed to be on this forum.
    04-26-11 04:40 PM
  2. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Well, I need to point out one thing....the mods do respond when a complaint is lodged. I know that each time (save one) that I've reported someone there has been action taken. I believe the idea is to let the trolls dig their own holes and then sit back, watch, and allow them to throw themselves into it. It's worked a couple of times. Of course, there have been times that I've gotten quite heated with a couple of famous trolls after they've taken me beyond the amount of idiocy I can endure.
    I left for a while, but came back when the Torch launched. There is much to be gained by this site, I just am not keen on allowing the haters to take it over without b1tching back at them.
    04-26-11 04:52 PM
  3. sleepngbear's Avatar
    Anybody who thinks the Playbook forum is bad should have seen the original Storm forum when the Storm was released. It was so bad that a "Rants/Rave" subforum was established. None of the other device forums ever devolved to that point.

    It was so bad, users were banned, uprisings of rabid users screaming at mods and their banhammers, the drama spilled over into the other forums. General mayhem everywhere. It all settled down over time.
    Do we really need a repeat of that? Actually that question is moot -- it feels like it's nearly at that point again. At times when users are most in need of useful information, specifically the release of new devices, it seems to me that even more of an effort should be made to maintain some semblance of order. Instead we have new haters every day antagonizing without consequence, and certain mods in the thick of the chaos adding more fuel to the fire. But because they're not usually directly and personally attacking anyone, it's excused as being normal pro-con discussion. Horsehockey. I can go to public blogs and get less confrontation than I get HERE at a supposed BlackBerry-focused site. I find something seriously wrong with that picture.

    What's going to happen in a few months when the new phones come out? If things are allowed to keep on like they are with everyone assuming that they'll calm down on their own again, the dust will yet to have settled from the ruckus over the PlayBook when it turns into a complete clusterf$@!. I don't know about you, but I am so not looking forward to that.

    So can someone also pm of a new forum??? I'd appreciate it.
    Yeah, ditto that, please.
    04-26-11 04:54 PM
  4. southlander's Avatar
    Seriously can't believe that things are allowed to continue like they are. The Playbook forum is troll central and same groups of people just keep spouting off nothing useful, and new accounts popping up left and right (probably with same IP addresses as other accounts) with people just bashing RIM. Can we get some mod sticks out swinging? I'm all for informed people who didn't like a device expressing why and hoping that ends up making the product better somehow, **** I've expressed discontent with RIM before, but so many people obviously have never even used the devices and are just here to see what they can start. Ignore buttons don't work with quoted material either. I mean I know that a hits a hit for advertising purposes, but people coming here in search of information are just going to see a bunch of posts with RIM bashing.
    Indifference would be a sign of things failing.
    04-26-11 04:57 PM
  5. qbnkelt's Avatar
    Do we really need a repeat of that? Actually that question is moot -- it feels like it's nearly at that point again. At times when users are most in need of useful information, specifically the release of new devices, it seems to me that even more of an effort should be made to maintain some semblance of order. Instead we have new haters every day antagonizing without consequence, and certain mods in the thick of the chaos adding more fuel to the fire. But because they're not usually directly and personally attacking anyone, it's excused as being normal pro-con discussion. Horsehockey. I can go to public blogs and get less confrontation than I get HERE at a supposed BlackBerry-focused site. I find something seriously wrong with that picture.

    What's going to happen in a few months when the new phones come out? If things are allowed to keep on like they are with everyone assuming that they'll calm down on their own again, the dust will yet to have settled from the ruckus over the PlayBook when it turns into a complete clusterf$@!. I don't know about you, but I am so not looking forward to that.



    Yeah, ditto that, please.

    Yup - the bolded part is what gets me. Mods are supposed to at the very least follow the forum's guidelines, not evidence the kind of behaviour that they're supposed to control.
    But hey - sometimes decisions are incromprehensible to anyone other than the decision makers....
    04-26-11 04:57 PM
  6. jinxednuance's Avatar
    I agree with you.

    I honestly think those who don't like RIM should be banned. I mean, I do understand you are allowed to express your opinion, but excuse me, this is for pro-Blackberry. If you're not one, then you're not supposed to be here.

    People just want to ******* ruin it for us who enjoy everything Blackberry! Well **** you because that ain't gonna happen! @$$es!
    04-26-11 05:17 PM
  7. jlspeed29's Avatar
    Anybody who thinks the Playbook forum is bad should have seen the original Storm forum when the Storm was released. It was so bad that a "Rants/Rave" subforum was established. None of the other device forums ever devolved to that point.

    It was so bad, users were banned, uprisings of rabid users screaming at mods and their banhammers, the drama spilled over into the other forums. General mayhem everywhere. It all settled down over time.
    thats because the Storm sucked by and large......I watched the PB section and actually got excited to see it...there was a lot of hype prior to the PB's release and now that its out...it seems that there are a number of people who are dissatisfied with the device....
    04-26-11 05:19 PM
  8. pr1nce's Avatar
    Yup - the bolded part is what gets me. Mods are supposed to at the very least follow the forum's guidelines, not evidence the kind of behaviour that they're supposed to control.
    But hey - sometimes decisions are incromprehensible to anyone other than the decision makers....
    +1 I agree

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-26-11 05:24 PM
  9. Callumlord's Avatar
    The point is not the name of the site, it's a gripe about the fact that the site is getting overrun with trolls and negativity. The thread title is a satirical suggestion that the site owners change the former, since they don't seem too eager to do anything about the latter. He makes plenty of sense.
    Ah I must have read it wrong or did not understand it right away. I kind of agree with this but also disagree but I agree with random topics and reply's ext it is stupid and needs to be looked into more and thoughtfully.
    04-26-11 05:56 PM
  10. mickrg123's Avatar
    I agree with you.

    I honestly think those who don't like RIM should be banned. I mean, I do understand you are allowed to express your opinion, but excuse me, this is for pro-Blackberry. If you're not one, then you're not supposed to be here.

    People just want to ******* ruin it for us who enjoy everything Blackberry! Well **** you because that ain't gonna happen! @$$es!
    LMAO Are you kidding me, people who don't like Rim should not be here?
    90% of CB users are people having problems and come here for answers.
    Where should I go when RIM puts out a s**t product? In your world all Rim products are perfect and I should just say oh well maybe next one will be better? SMH!
    04-26-11 06:11 PM
  11. CrackBerry Kevin's Avatar
    Few things here....

    a) what RMJones101 said above was right - to me things are actually TAME compared to the Storm days. Trolling and tolerance for hateration must vary between people. I've actually been spending a TON of time in the PlayBook forums and to me they are pretty awesome! Sure, there are some idiots here and there (I'll get to that) and some stupid posts, but overall there is a ton of action and conversation happening, which is what I like. So while things may seem bad a the moment, they will calm down. But yeah.. Storm 1 days we're 10x the chaos level.

    b) For the trolls who are doing one line anti-playbook zings and adding zero value to this community... we'll clamp down on that asap. You're effed. Seeee ya!

    c) As for general negativity... I get it if somebody has a valid concern or genuine gripe about their device, and I'm all for voicing it in a forum, but if a thread can't stay on topic anymore because somebody derails it back to a gripe, then that is a problem, so we will do a better job of modding here.

    My guiding principle is always to do what's best for the forums. More often than not over the years that's been to loosely moderate things and let the members show the way. But it does seem right now that continued loose moderation isn't necessarily the best thing for the forums. I don't want the forums to turn into some sort of police state, but at the same time a person should be able to create a thread and carry on a discussion without the hate flowing in. As was also mentioned on this thread, these are help forums as much as discussion forums. Help threads don't need to turn into discussions. There's a time and a place. So I think a big part of solving the gripes members are mentioning here is to really put the right discussions in the right places. If a thread is about a specific topic, it should stick to that without turning a big discussion about something else. And for more controversial discussions, those can happen in threads that are geared toward that. That way you know what you're clicking and what you're getting.

    Conclusion: We'll try harder to make things better. Be sure to let us know how we're doing over the days and weeks ahead.

    PS. CrackBerry IS the best community on the net for BlackBerry stuff period. That's why we attract the BlackBerry fans, but unfortunately the haters too. Think of it as a sign of a successful community. I don't mind haters, as long as they're adding genuine value to the forums and discussion. They're ok. But the haters who are simply here to hate and cause trouble... we'll do a better job of managing you.
    altrax, howarmat, K Bear and 31 others like this.
    04-26-11 07:00 PM
  12. dodger_moore's Avatar
    That's good to hear Kevin.

    If I could add to that I'd suggest that you ask your moderators to act like their title suggests, in a more moderate capacity, or perhaps just get rid of Civic. It doesn't do much for the site when people like that are setting such a bad example.

    If I behaved like some of the clowns on here in real life, I'd expect to get pulled up sharp; trouble is there's no one here to do it, or there is no carrot/stick for people to treat one another with respect. Why has this culture of not treating each other with respect, for want of a better word, flourished?

    Free reign of the members is not the way. You've got some good members making great posts, QbknKelt and DeRusset but they are drowned out by the clowns. That wouldn't be allowed to happen in a pub, workplace, anywhere but the internet.

    I really enjoy the podcasts, love reading the blog and used to love spending time in these forums but I don't feel like I can contribute anything here or want to get involved.

    I would say I'd like to stand my ground and dig my heels in and tough it out / ignore the clowns but life's too short for that, there could be more helpful community elsewhere that I could just join tomorrow. I'd far rather things got cleaned up here though and we saw a return to a more respectful level of discussion.
    Harry_Yambag likes this.
    04-26-11 07:13 PM
  13. CrackBerry Kevin's Avatar
    Thanks for that dodger_moore. All taken under advisement. Want you loving the forums again!!
    dodger_moore likes this.
    04-26-11 07:17 PM
  14. dodger_moore's Avatar
    Thanks for reading Kevin, I've just ordered my Playbook, I'm gonna want somewhere to hang out whilst I'm smashing the web on that lovely browser!

    Onwards, looking forward to the new era.
    04-26-11 07:26 PM
  15. K Bear's Avatar
    I think it's entirely unfair to single out one moderator and attack them just because they don't tow the corporate line. Havging moderators that bring different sides and opinions adds value to any discussion. If everyone has the same opinion, everything would be roses and no one would address the real issues at hand.
    This is where the real issue is, there are too many people who have no idea how to debate nor do they care to hear alternatives to their what seems to be a belief system of their's. Just because people use different decides and have different opinions doesn't mean that they are any less of a contributer than anyone else.
    Last edited by K Bear; 04-26-11 at 08:24 PM.
    04-26-11 07:36 PM
  16. Michelle Haag's Avatar
    Also, don't be afraid to report posters that are obviously just trolling, being argumentative, or personally attacking other members. There are almost 3 million members, and only a handful of mods, so the more you help us the more we can help you!
    Jared DiPane likes this.
    04-26-11 07:40 PM
  17. tmelon's Avatar
    I agree with you.

    I honestly think those who don't like RIM should be banned. I mean, I do understand you are allowed to express your opinion, but excuse me, this is for pro-Blackberry. If you're not one, then you're not supposed to be here.

    People just want to ******* ruin it for us who enjoy everything Blackberry! Well **** you because that ain't gonna happen! @$$es!
    Umm... Communism? I don't think China is quite the best role model for a forum. I mean honestly, where does this forum say "Pro-BlackBerry only"?

    This happens all the time. When a company is going through a bad time the related forums will get trolled and then when the company is doing well the trolling will cease.

    Instead of asking for trolls to leave you should be asking for RIM to step their game up.
    04-26-11 07:41 PM
  18. dodger_moore's Avatar
    K Bear I read what you say above, I mentioned Civic's name and I would have mentioned AG too but he's now retired. I'd sooner state who I'm talking about rather than say 'certain people' because I'd rather get it out in the open.

    It's not about toeing the corporate line, as if I'm in anyway affected by RIMs profits? It's about not winding people up on a regular basis, not making people feel inferior, about treating eachother with respect.

    And it's not about extinguishing debate from the forum either. Are you replying to me or speaking in generalities, because I never said that? Debating is stimulating, objective and there's a point to it. What people are complaining about on this thread is not debating, it's bashing.

    Now I'm speaking in generalities, but if you want to debate with me, I'll debate with you all day long, so long as there's a level of respect/admiration/sensitivity. W

    Even so, it's been said that help threads don't need to turn into debate (I'd say bashing) threads so maybe it's about people not wanting to hear others opinions as they are not required ALL THE TIME in every single thread.

    Someone pointed out earlier on that CrackBerry is effectively an enthusiasts forum, and as much as it's a place for everyone into tech to hang out, there needs to be a bit of sensitivity to the core membership and foundations of the discussion board. It feels like people with different agendas are trying to muscle in and pollute/dilute the good information, debates and banter on here. I don't think that's healthy, others don't, and that's what we're complaining about.

    Can you see why we would feel this way?

    This is my last post in this thread, the Mods have come in and addressed concerns, I don't want to keep bumping it up to the top.

    All the best,

    Dom.
    sleepngbear and Harry_Yambag like this.
    04-26-11 07:52 PM
  19. K Bear's Avatar
    K Bear I read what you say above, I mentioned Civic's name and I would have mentioned AG too but he's now retired. I'd sooner state who I'm talking about rather than say 'certain people' because I'd rather get it out in the open.

    It's not about toeing the corporate line, as if I'm in anyway affected by RIMs profits? It's about not winding people up on a regular basis, not making people feel inferior, about treating eachother with respect.

    And it's not about extinguishing debate from the forum either. Are you replying to me or speaking in generalities, because I never said that? Debating is stimulating, objejUctive and there's a point to it. What people are complaining about on this thread is not debating, it's bashing.

    Now I'm speaking in generalities, but if you want to debate with me, I'll debate with you all day long, so long as there's a level of respect/admiration/sensitivity. W

    Even so, it's been said that help threads don't need to turn into debate (I'd say bashing) threads so maybe it's about people not wanting to hear others opinions as they are not required ALL THE TIME in every single thread.

    Someone pointed out earlier on that CrackBerry is effectively an enthusiasts forum, and as much as it's a place for everyone into tech to hang out, there needs to be a bit of sensitivity to the core membership and foundations of the discussion board. It feels like people with different agendas are trying to muscle in and pollute/dilute the good information, debates and banter on here. I don't think that's healthy, others don't, and that's what we're complaining about.

    Can you see why we would feel this way?

    This is my last post in this thread, the Mods have come in and addressed concerns, I don't want to keep bumping it up to the top.

    All the best,

    Dom.
    I was speaking in generalities. I was in no way shape or form calling you out.
    04-26-11 08:23 PM
  20. sleepngbear's Avatar
    Someone pointed out earlier on that CrackBerry is effectively an enthusiasts forum, and as much as it's a place for everyone into tech to hang out, there needs to be a bit of sensitivity to the core membership and foundations of the discussion board. It feels like people with different agendas are trying to muscle in and pollute/dilute the good information, debates and banter on here. I don't think that's healthy, others don't, and that's what we're complaining about.
    Very well put. That sums up my gripes in a nutshell.

    I've said many times before ... I'm open to debate and differing opinions, and I do enjoy learning about the pros and cons of other manufacturers and platforms. The fact that Kevin welcomes users and fans of other devices here can be hugely beneficial to everyone; but it does not mean it's open season on RIM. Too many people seem to have lost sight of that and feel they can come in here and tear into anything and anyone, and it's all fair game. Mods only step in when things get personal, and by then it's too late.

    I completely understand that it's a very fine line between keeping things within borders of acceptability and running a police state; and whether things are too lenient or too strict, somebody is bound to get rubbed the wrong way. It's a thankless job. But that's why these boards have moderators; and if feathers get ruffled in the process of keeping things under control, well, I'd rather have that than the complete anarchy we sometimes seem to be headed for.
    BigBadWulf likes this.
    04-26-11 08:24 PM
  21. anon3396357's Avatar
    Can't wait to see the cleaning up happen. I've almost quit CB forums for a season because of people like Tucker67 (who have free reign) but I still returned due to addiction.
    04-26-11 10:19 PM
  22. oldbbuser's Avatar
    Ignore the trolls and they'll go away !!

    QFT. I've been lurking for awhile now and some posters here have some really thin skin and some are down right paranoid. Just relax and don't hit reply right away, come back 6 hours later and post if it still bothers you...its amazing how a cooling off period makes things better.

    Remember you are arguing on the internet and it makes you look....well...silly.
    04-26-11 10:43 PM
  23. Machzy's Avatar
    Seen Mark's similar post in the past about this and I have to agree with him. But to be honest, I get sick of the BB fanbois just as much as the RIM haters.

    I'm gonna name drop because we all know who I'm about to mention anyways. But granted - not everything that that Civic says is pure hate with no substance. I actually agree with her often. Sometimes she goes overboard, but she still mentions valid gripes with RIM's smarthphones & PB.

    But it's even worse when you have like 5 people arguing against her with the biggest load of garbage.

    I remember when the arguement used to be '100,000 apps for Android? I bet 90% are fart apps! HAR HAR HAR!'. Then as soon as RIM announced that Android apps will be able to work on the PB all BB fans (including said fanbois) were up in arms and wetting themselves because they were so happy - pure hypocracy.

    tl;dr - If you're gonna start reporting/banning, do it for RIM-haters & RIM-lovers; fanbois gunna be fanbois.
    04-26-11 10:45 PM
  24. anon3396357's Avatar
    tl;dr - If you're gonna start reporting/banning, do it for RIM-haters & RIM-lovers; fanbois gunna be fanbois.
    You do know there's a difference between fanboys and trolls, right? The line can be thin sometimes though.
    04-26-11 11:29 PM
  25. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Thank you for weighing on on the Thread Kevin, I look forward to working with with you to address the forum issues!

    Now to the posts about Mods, I really have nothing against ANY of the mods, for the most part though negative, Civic contributes valuable contrasting points of view to threads, I don't want a forum where everyone agrees all the time, AG as well, we butted heads, but I valued his contribution to the forums as a member and as a moderator.

    Kevin is very much right that this is still the best Blackberry site, I have looked and read many other sites, and received 4 PIN's with alternative sites since posting I am looking, none yet are as attractive. I really hope that this discussion will spark some pro active action by the Moderation team, and with some new direction let's curb the Anti blackberry injections into threads, as well as educate the super Pro Blackberry users about the miss information they spread! It goes both ways as a community we need to bring the over all value up, kill the bb is for business xxxxx is a toy banter, kill the bb sucks because it is missing app xxxxx

    Those like me who are upset, let us actively report posts, and give VALUABLE information when you report the thread "off topic / disruptive" "wrong forum" "duplicate thread". And such.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    04-27-11 12:10 AM
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