11-18-10 12:25 AM
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  1. davids331's Avatar
    tezgno - That's because the folks at Verizon lie. Individual reps are aware, but if they don't report it properly internally, then they are the only ones at Verizon who know. And, unless properly reported, its on nobody's defect list to resolve. I still say that everyone should return their devices and not put up with this kind of marketing crap.

    BTW, I am the one who said that one of the reps that I spoke to indicated previous knowledge of the problem. If he never reported it, then that explains why nobody else was aware.

    Oh, and that ex-Marine who was supposed to talk to the RIM rep and call me yesterday? The guy that said he was an ex-Marine and never lies? Well, he apparently disgraced his fellow Marines by lying to me.
    07-28-09 01:59 PM
  2. Beau79's Avatar
    Dear All:

    I'm fed up with reading of all the people with similar issues, and even more fed up with RIM/VZW stating they have no internal issues reported. I am willing to compile a list of Names/Phone Numbers and email my contact at VZW Corporate.

    Let's try to do this for real, the more people we can get on this list, the better. I like this phone, I don't want to return it for a simple BT/OS bug, I want it fixed!

    Any ideas how we can compile the names/numbers, or maybe names/pins? PM me? Email me?
    07-28-09 02:04 PM
  3. rhans405's Avatar
    I'm having the same issue on both of my Tour's. Interestingly, I talked to a good friend of mine who works for RIM (deals with the Verizon Market) and he told me that he had not heard of this issue. He even checked their internal issue's log and only found two reported issues (so whomever it was that stated that Verizon/RIM was aware of the issue, apparently they were not).

    Also more interestingly, after talking with him, he has not experienced this issue with his own Tour (Verizon) or any of the Verizon rep's Tour's. But, we did discover that it appears to be an issue with the 4.7.1.40 OS that is shipping with the Tour's (as his Tour and the Rep's Tour's are running on an older OS that was released prior to shipping).

    After demonstrating the issue to him using my Tour, he created a support issue to their engineers. Hopefully, it will be resolved soon.
    If it's a software fix, great. I'm not sure how this is an intermittant problem though. Is everyone with the 1.40 OS experiencing this problem? Is it just an app controling mic volume? Seems to me all using the same OS should be experiencing the problem which doesn't seem to be the case.
    07-28-09 02:22 PM
  4. tezgno's Avatar
    The OS has a feature in which it can detect ambient noise around the microphone and attempts to compensate for the extra noise. More than likely, the problem is due to a fault in the software where it improperly detects the audio levels and adjusts them inappropriately, which is why it's intermittent. For me, it's all of the time on most of my headsets. I noticed, however, that my dual-mic headsets have more of a problem than my single-mic headset does.
    07-28-09 02:46 PM
  5. sb37's Avatar
    Also more interestingly, after talking with him, he has not experienced this issue with his own Tour (Verizon) or any of the Verizon rep's Tour's. But, we did discover that it appears to be an issue with the 4.7.1.40 OS that is shipping with the Tour's (as his Tour and the Rep's Tour's are running on an older OS that was released prior to shipping).
    if that's the case, any way to test out the old os? is it available online anywhere?
    07-28-09 03:22 PM
  6. tezgno's Avatar
    It's a pre-shipping release that was available to RIM and Verizon (and probably Sprint as well). Not sure if it is online or not. I'll see if I can get the build number.
    07-28-09 03:39 PM
  7. classg1's Avatar
    Isn't it possible that if you load the version distributed before 1.40 that fixes to the current version..that you might like...would go away. By the way, I also have the headset issue with bluetooth that folks can't hear me very well but they are clear as a bell. I'm willing to wait for the fix but did voice a complaint on the verizon site today. (not that they will listen)
    07-28-09 05:27 PM
  8. rhans405's Avatar
    Isn't it possible that if you load the version distributed before 1.40 that fixes to the current version..that you might like...would go away. By the way, I also have the headset issue with bluetooth that folks can't hear me very well but they are clear as a bell. I'm willing to wait for the fix but did voice a complaint on the verizon site today. (not that they will listen)
    Did you use your headset for the voice complaint.
    07-28-09 05:56 PM
  9. vzwfan's Avatar
    I called Verizon and asked to officially report the issue and got the same lip service. I have also posted this on their Tech Forums. Not sure what impact it will have but its worth a try. I would love to upgrade my 8830 World Edition to the Tour but cant due to this issue. Does anyone know if VZW is bringing out any other World Edition BB's besides the Tour. Cheers and Thanks!
    07-28-09 06:18 PM
  10. tezgno's Avatar
    Hello everyone... I don't have time to read all 16 pages of this topic so could someone just answer this for me? Is this a software related issue? I was going to send in my Tour rebate but don't want to do that if I might have to exchange my phone...

    Thanks!
    No doubt that it is software related. When it will be fixed is another issue.
    07-28-09 08:17 PM
  11. davids331's Avatar
    Its easy to say that its a software issue, until it turns out to be a hardware design issue. That's really the only reason that I opted to return my Tour, in lieu of having faith in the folks that won't even give us the time of day, and waiting it out.

    BTW, I am still convinced that the reason that Verizon is paying us no attention is because so many of us are perfectly happy to sit there with their brand new "defective" Tour in hand, waiting for the crumbs that Verizon MAY throw our way, in lieu of returning all of these defective devices and definitely getting their attention. They know that most of us will sit still and take the abuse. They are overly confident in the fact that most of us won't leave the Verizon network in favor of a network with lesser coverage and, between the two, they can do whatever they want to us and we will take it. Think about it...

    If they had a flood of defective Tours returned tomorrow, and they had to unwind all those 2 year contract renewals, ya think they just might take note of us?
    Last edited by davids331; 07-28-09 at 08:58 PM.
    07-28-09 08:34 PM
  12. anon(2353369)'s Avatar
    It may not be a "great" answer.....bu hey...it's ans answer and I'm happy!

    I had plantronics 925 and also a 510 with usb dongle for my voice dictation...
    The BOTH SUCKED at people hearing me.
    Saw the ads for the plantronics new Voyager Pro....tried it in the store right when I bought it....WOW!!!! Really strong!


    I LOVE THIS BLUETOOTH!!!!...It's everything that was raved about!
    So I guess it's a problem with Tour/BT model match-ups....but this DEFINATELY worked
    Stop spamming.. read the rules, BTW im new
    07-28-09 09:03 PM
  13. jeffjay's Avatar
    Is this the same issue why I cannot tether via bluetooth? It connects, but no data is being processed. It was never a problem with my curve.
    Last edited by jeffjay; 07-28-09 at 09:21 PM.
    07-28-09 09:18 PM
  14. tezgno's Avatar
    Its easy to say that its a software issue, until it turns out to be a hardware design issue. That's really the only reason that I opted to return my Tour, in lieu of having faith in the folks that won't even give us the time of day, and waiting it out.

    BTW, I am still convinced that the reason that Verizon is paying us no attention is because so many of us are perfectly happy to sit there with their brand new "defective" Tour in hand, waiting for the crumbs that Verizon MAY throw our way, in lieu of returning all of these defective devices and definitely getting their attention. They know that most of us will sit still and take the abuse. They are overly confident in the fact that most of us won't leave the Verizon network in favor of a network with lesser coverage and, between the two, they can do whatever they want to us and we will take it. Think about it...

    If they had a flood of defective Tours returned tomorrow, and they had to unwind all those 2 year contract renewals, ya think they just might take note of us?
    Here's the meat and potatoes. Verizon doesn't control the OS that is on the Blackberry. Verizon is just a cell phone carrier. It isn't up to Verizon to fix whatever OS issues may be in the software. Rather, it's up to RIM. Everyone returning their Tour's to Verizon isn't going to fix the issue as they are at the mercy of RIM and their OS release process. We forget that Sprint users are in the same boat (those who are running the 4.7.1.40 code). With the Tour being such a new device, Verizon can't just certify an OS and release it as there isn't any other code out there to certify yet.

    If the bluetooth issue is that big of a deal breaker for you, by all means return the phone and get something that you are happy with. For me, outside of the bluetooth issue, I actually enjoy the Tour much more than I did my Bold so I am willing to wait for them to fix the issue. It has been reported to RIM, it will be fixed. Until then, I'm going to search for a workaround, which I think I may have found. Testing it out to be certain that it does in fact work.
    Last edited by tezgno; 07-28-09 at 09:44 PM.
    07-28-09 09:31 PM
  15. Joox's Avatar
    Its easy to say that its a software issue, until it turns out to be a hardware design issue. That's really the only reason that I opted to return my Tour, in lieu of having faith in the folks that won't even give us the time of day, and waiting it out.

    BTW, I am still convinced that the reason that Verizon is paying us no attention is because so many of us are perfectly happy to sit there with their brand new "defective" Tour in hand, waiting for the crumbs that Verizon MAY throw our way, in lieu of returning all of these defective devices and definitely getting their attention. They know that most of us will sit still and take the abuse. They are overly confident in the fact that most of us won't leave the Verizon network in favor of a network with lesser coverage and, between the two, they can do whatever they want to us and we will take it. Think about it...

    If they had a flood of defective Tours returned tomorrow, and they had to unwind all those 2 year contract renewals, ya think they just might take note of us?
    David, I'm wary about Verizon as a company, and think they do whatever they can to make a buck. They're a business.

    With that said, I like the Tour overall. Sending it back for what is to me a possibly intermittent issue (I really don't make enough calls and haven't tested it long enough to tell) is a pain, and my old Pearl is not really working.

    If you guys have a workable BB to fall back on and are willing to send it back, by all means, sure it would make a dent. But unless this start to effect me more I just can't.

    I will gladly provide my name/number whatever to anyone who wants to compile a list to complain to Verizon, as proof of the number of people affected. And I will complain myself when I get the chance.
    07-28-09 09:35 PM
  16. sb37's Avatar
    Until then, I'm going to search for a workaround, which I think I may have found. Testing it out to be certain that it does in fact work.
    What's the workaround? I'm happy to test it out as well. Thanks for your work on this
    07-28-09 09:52 PM
  17. tezgno's Avatar
    1. Unpair the BT headset
    2. Pull battery and wait 2 minutes
    3. Reinsert battery
    4. Repair BT headset
    5. Turn off echo control in the BT headset
    6. Turn off automatic volume control (Enhanced Audio in the phone preferences)
    7. Reset Phone

    After doing this, my call volume went from a 2 (on a scale of 1-10) to a 7/8 for most calls. Tested it with a Motorola H690 and H695 (both are dual-mic headsets) and an LG HBM-300 (single-mic headset).

    Your results may vary, however.
    07-28-09 10:08 PM
  18. crabbybahstid's Avatar
    Hello everyone... I don't have time to read all 16 pages of this topic so...<snip>
    Dewd...I'm as big a n00b as they come, and I slogged through it all. Man up, huh?
    07-28-09 10:40 PM
  19. tezgno's Avatar
    Ok, after further testing, here are some more results:

    Dual-mic Headsets - Turning off Echo Control seems to have fixed the issue with them (my Motorola's H690 and H695). Test calls that I placed started off with volume levels in the 6-8 range (on a scale of 1-10) and then almost immediately fell to 1-2 range. The dual-mics on the headset may be causing issues with the Echo detection process. Also noticed that with Echo Control turned on, every other word seemed to not process.

    Single-mic Headset - Turning off Echo Control did not raise or lower the volume (LG HBM-300). I maintained constant volume throughout all of the test calls that I made (in the 7-10 range). Clarity was in and out, but that is more a result of the headset I used as it is not the greatest headset on the market.

    From what I can gather, this looks to be an issue with the new algorithm that is used to process ambient noise and compensate for it. I have passed this up to my contact at RIM.
    07-28-09 10:40 PM
  20. bigdean735's Avatar
    I'm running BT through an 08 Lancer; i see guys talking about volume through the mic, however, I am still having issues with the person I am talking to voice being distorted(tin can effect). Is there a generic fix for this, maybe I missed it in the 275 previous posts....advice?
    07-28-09 11:39 PM
  21. davids331's Avatar
    tezgno - I think its pretty clear that the intellectual rights to the software running on the Blackberries rests with RIM. However, if you truly believe that Verizon is incapable of exercising its clout to get RIM to jump when they say so, think again. If Verizon loaded up those trucks full of Tours and sent them back up to Canada where they came from, and RIM showed up tomorrow morning and found palettes of Tours on their driveway in the morning, I think a line of communication would likely open between the two organizations, intellectual property rights to the OS or or not. Just a hunch... None of us should be having to fight for RIM's attention, that's Verizon's job.

    I plan to re-purchase a Tour again, just as soon as I see a resolution to this very basic defect. I like the phone otherwise. I just prefer not to commit to 2 years, when making the device right is still an unknown resolution. Everyone is hoping that its going to get fixed with software, but what if software alone can't overcome a hardware design defect? Then what?

    Verizon DOES test its equipment before they choose to release new product. They FAILED to test yet another new product, placing the burden on its customers to put up with inferior product until they get around to doing their job, the job that they should have done before they started selling the device.

    Again, just my 2 cents, but tell me that I am wrong... In the interim, best of luck with a workaround, which may need to be reversed, if and when the real fix arrives. :-)
    07-29-09 12:05 AM
  22. Royceboy135's Avatar
    Here's the meat and potatoes. Verizon doesn't control the OS that is on the Blackberry. Verizon is just a cell phone carrier. It isn't up to Verizon to fix whatever OS issues may be in the software. Rather, it's up to RIM. Everyone returning their Tour's to Verizon isn't going to fix the issue as they are at the mercy of RIM and their OS release process. We forget that Sprint users are in the same boat (those who are running the 4.7.1.40 code). With the Tour being such a new device, Verizon can't just certify an OS and release it as there isn't any other code out there to certify yet.

    If the bluetooth issue is that big of a deal breaker for you, by all means return the phone and get something that you are happy with. For me, outside of the bluetooth issue, I actually enjoy the Tour much more than I did my Bold so I am willing to wait for them to fix the issue. It has been reported to RIM, it will be fixed. Until then, I'm going to search for a workaround, which I think I may have found. Testing it out to be certain that it does in fact work.
    I am a loyal Verizon customer. Been with them for over 15 years. I could not wait for the Tour to be released. But I did not run out to buy one. I wanted to wait a few weeks to read about the problems and what people had to say about it. I will not buy a Tour until this problem is fixed. I drive many miles a day and use my built in b/t. Verizon is going to lose a lot of money and customers if they don't get there act together. You think a problem like this would have been detected during the testing period of this device. I guess we will have to wait and see how this problem is going to be corrected.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-29-09 01:19 AM
  23. tezgno's Avatar
    Verizon did in fact test the Tour's just as Sprint did. It just so happened, however, that they tested it with an OS that didn't ship with the Tour's. This isn't the first time that this has happened. The Bold on AT&T was the same way (in which the shipping OS had a ton of issues).

    We can go back and forth all day. It isn't going to change anything. We can't fix the problem so there is no use going back and forth on who to blame. The only thing we can do is wait for a fix, which should be here shortly.
    07-29-09 03:06 AM
  24. BLACKJEDI23's Avatar
    BLACKBERRY TOUR
    BELL MOBILITY NETWORK
    V4.7.140

    TTY = OFF
    Automatic volume control = OFF

    Echo Control= OFF

    This is definitely what made the difference for me.
    now the integrated bluetooth module in my m35x works perfectly with my tour.

    i guess that tweeking works for some and not others.
    07-29-09 09:36 AM
  25. davids331's Avatar
    Agreed, however, just to cap the thread, testing a different product than what was going to be released for production use is NOT testing a product. That's the first fundamental of software testing. You test what is going to be released and, if altered, you test it again, to insure that the final release candidate is the product that gets tested. We just have a fundamental difference of opinion, however, tezgno's point of view leads me to wonder if he/she might actually be one of the Verizon testers. :-)

    In any event, nothing wrong with a difference of opinion. Its keeps the world going round and round.
    07-29-09 09:40 AM
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