10-14-11 11:07 AM
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  1. CrackedBarry's Avatar
    When I put made in USA on a Product to sell in the US I can demand a 15% premium over the Made ANYWHERE ELSE even when the products are identical just by saying Made in USA.
    Protectionism in general is a whole different discussion, though I'd like to see some sources for the claim above.

    But the tech-sector is so notriously international that it doesn't make sense to talk about: "American companies" or "Canadian companies".
    The company might have its headquarters in one country, licenses an OS from a different country, assemble their products in a third country and sell them worldwide.

    So "support Canadian" or "buy Canadian" is illogical and beside the point.

    Besides, you really want to compete on merit, not on nationality (the latter precludes the first) ESPECIALLY as a Canadian. If everybody thought the same way, RIM would be bankrupt by the end of the month, with its tiny 30-40 million strong homemarket
    HD123 likes this.
    10-13-11 06:06 AM
  2. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    Protectionism in general is a whole different discussion, though I'd like to see some sources for the claim above.

    But the tech-sector is so notriously international that it doesn't make sense to talk about: "American companies" or "Canadian companies".
    The company might have its headquarters in one country, licenses an OS from a different country, assemble their products in a third country and sell them worldwide.

    So "support Canadian" or "buy Canadian" is illogical and beside the point.

    Besides, you really want to compete on merit, not on nationality (the latter precludes the first) ESPECIALLY as a Canadian. If everybody thought the same way, RIM would be bankrupt by the end of the month, with its tiny 30-40 million strong homemarket
    Unfortunately I can't provide you sources because those are internal numbers showing the advantages we've had with Made in USA branding in the USA, and the effects of going overseas has to gross revenue vs gross margins.

    and I am sure other company's who have done similar studies also keep their numbers to themselves as it leads to the magic pricepoint that it gets worth while to build product out of the country.


    AND I'm NOT arguing about supporting RIM because of their nationality, I am arguing that Canadians are usually ones TO support national company's when that is Often not the case, Canadian TV is hardly supported, Canadian's want more competition from foreign company's in the telecommunication sector, Canadians, purchase more Paper from China than manufactured locally, Canadians ship more raw materials out to be processed than attempt to process within the country, I am saying this OP is a very small minority and not indicative of the typical Canadian as you posted in your post
    10-13-11 06:14 AM
  3. CrackedBarry's Avatar
    I know... Canada is a funny case, because aside from the examples you mentioned above
    (Canadian TV? Come on, who in their right mind would watch that **ap. Besides Degrassi obviously!)
    it's a weird mix of an incredibly internationalized economy, and incredibly protectionist economy.

    On one hand you can go across the border to get the same goods you can get in Canada, except a lot cheaper (Books are the best example... US price 17.99$ Canadian price 26.99$) but on the other hand you have all these arcane protectionist rules. Like in the banking sector or communications. Or that the Canadian government in theory could STOP a buyout of RIM...

    It's pretty weird for a European!
    10-13-11 06:23 AM
  4. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    I know... Canada is a funny case, because aside from the examples you mentioned above
    (Canadian TV? Come on, who in their right mind would watch that **ap. Besides Degrassi obviously!)
    it's a weird mix of an incredibly internationalized economy, and incredibly protectionist economy.

    On one hand you can go across the border to get the same goods you can get in Canada, except a lot cheaper (Books are the best example... US price 17.99$ Canadian price 26.99$) but on the other hand you have all these arcane protectionist rules. Like in the banking sector or communications. Or that the Canadian government in theory could STOP a buyout of RIM...

    It's pretty weird for a European!

    The European union has similar powers to the Canadian Government for blocking things.

    As for Incredibly protectionist, apart from Banking, which thankfully is heavily controlled, and has held our economy at a much higher level than the US because of it. and Telecommunications, we don't have many protectionist things, most proectionism is to keep US interests out of Canada and slow the Americanization of the country. OH wait Wheat is also pretty protectionist.

    For Price differences between Canada and the US, it is heavily due to duties and classifications, a textile product is has 18% duties applied to it coming into the country, in the USA it has a 6% duty,
    Then our taxation is considerably higher in Canada which gets passed to the consumer as well,

    as for Canadian TV
    Corner Gas
    Little Mosque on the Prairie
    Rick Mercer report
    This Hour has 22 minutes,
    Just For Laughs
    pop off the top of my head as DVD's I have purchased or Shows I have on the PVR.

    Lots of Great Canadian Content, but it often needs to go to the US before Canadians accept it.
    10-13-11 06:39 AM
  5. CrackedBarry's Avatar
    The European union has similar powers to the Canadian Government for blocking things.

    As for Incredibly protectionist, apart from Banking, which thankfully is heavily controlled, and has held our economy at a much higher level than the US because of it. and Telecommunications, we don't have many protectionist things, most proectionism is to keep US interests out of Canada and slow the Americanization of the country.
    Ah yes, the great neighbour to the south. It's an oddly ambivalent relationships Canadians seem to have with Americans. On one hand, most Canadians know some Americans that they like.

    OTOH most Canadians also have this attitude that their country is somehow more civilized or superior to the US. And that Canadians are more intelligent and well, civilized than Americans.

    It's a certain kind of smugness that usually includes shaking heads over stuff like the death penalty and barbed comments about socialized medicine.

    Guess it comes with having such a big neighbour and being dependent on it to a certain extent.

    As for the European Union, I'm not sure... I mean I recall some monopoly cases, but I don't recall any cases where the EU considered stopping a US company from taking over a European company. Maybe it's just because they all get approved. But preventing a German company for example from taking over a Danish company is unheard of.

    Little Mosque on the Prairie
    Rick Mercer report
    This Hour has 22 minutes,
    Just For Laughs
    pop off the top of my head as DVD's I have purchased or Shows I have on the PVR.
    I know they're horrible, eh? I remember reading about Little Mosque on the Praire before it first aired, and remember thinking: Hmmm, that sounds like one of those CBC shows, that tries to educate the viewers on the blessings of multiculturalism, through a cast of bumbling, kind hearted but intolerant and incapable white Canadians, and their sophisticated, funny and smart ethnic neighbours that just moved over from Toronto... You know, one of those shows that try to be "current" and "touch on issues" but shy away from anything that could be controversial. To my surprise that's exactly what it was
    10-13-11 07:10 AM
  6. dentynefire's Avatar
    I know... Canada is a funny case, because aside from the examples you mentioned above
    (Canadian TV? Come on, who in their right mind would watch that **ap. Besides Degrassi obviously!)
    it's a weird mix of an incredibly internationalized economy, and incredibly protectionist economy.

    On one hand you can go across the border to get the same goods you can get in Canada, except a lot cheaper (Books are the best example... US price 17.99$ Canadian price 26.99$) but on the other hand you have all these arcane protectionist rules. Like in the banking sector or communications. Or that the Canadian government in theory could STOP a buyout of RIM...

    It's pretty weird for a European!
    Well I would think its pretty obvious Canadians shouldn't follow the Europeans or Americans with regards to Banking and Fiscal policy! LMAO

    But you should know that these rules are based on a National concept of equality. While you won't see the same prices in every market it balances the extremes. Canada is the 2nd LARGEST country in the world and by comparison a small population density. Canada just polices the area where large capital intensive industries and consumers meet. Similar to many countries with regulation, in "its" national interest.

    Should Canadians support RIM? yes.
    Should Americans support American industries? yes
    Should Europeans support Euro zone companies? yes
    Should one buy something that isn't needed? no

    Most importantly, RIM is being dragged into the consumer space. It simply didn't want that space initially IMO.
    With QNX and all the companies RIM has purchased lately I think the compelling answer to the OP is:

    YES!
    But only support them if they make products which meet your needs... obviously
    I think RIM is taking the Bull by the horns and already made an excellant Tablet. Its only early days for this OS
    Last edited by dentynefire; 10-13-11 at 07:35 AM.
    Neely2005 likes this.
    10-13-11 07:32 AM
  7. graxyq's Avatar
    Kg810: You failed right there with your pointless, abusive and factually incorrect argument
    Last edited by graxyq; 10-13-11 at 12:03 PM.
    Neely2005 likes this.
    10-13-11 12:00 PM
  8. Kg810's Avatar
    Kg810: You failed right there with your pointless, abusive and factually incorrect argument
    Really?

    You don't find it amusingly contradictory that the people preaching to others that they must support RIM because RIM is a Canadian company while the majority of the things they own probably aren't from a Canadian company?

    You guys are making such a scene over what... $200-$500 smartphones? Why don't you guys go ***** and cry about Canadians buying non-Canadian products for other things? The OP is 100% guilty of buying non-Canadian made products, yet his narrow-mindedness can only recognize to buy and support Canadian companies in terms of a measly smartphone.
    10-13-11 12:53 PM
  9. graxyq's Avatar
    Kg810: Read the original post again. The OP is more upset about a bunch of media imposters (especially in Canada) bashing up RIM. It's the OP's right to defend a product which he/ she thinks is good (and in my opinion blackberries are still very good except for browsers on non OS7 phones and apps). I would be concerned if Indian media starts writing contorted stories about lets say a large software company in India which ultimately leads to its demise and loss of jobs for thousands. Thats plain stupid, and that is exactly what most of the Canadian media is doing now.

    And you termed RIM as fail - how can a company fail when it is making more profits than many large global corporations, is launching new and improved product lines, making acquisitions and is still the no. 1 brand of smart phone for millions? Thats not a fair or justified argument.

    If you are a genuine poster (and I will give you the benefit of doubt), go look up the term 'character assasination' and what it can do to an individual (in this case the brand). If RIM fails (and I hope it never will), its not because their products were bad, but because of deliberate negative press over the last few years.
    Neely2005 likes this.
    10-13-11 01:41 PM
  10. Neely2005's Avatar
    I know... Canada is a funny case, because aside from the examples you mentioned above
    (Canadian TV? Come on, who in their right mind would watch that **ap. Besides Degrassi obviously!)
    it's a weird mix of an incredibly internationalized economy, and incredibly protectionist economy.

    On one hand you can go across the border to get the same goods you can get in Canada, except a lot cheaper (Books are the best example... US price 17.99$ Canadian price 26.99$) but on the other hand you have all these arcane protectionist rules. Like in the banking sector or communications. Or that the Canadian government in theory could STOP a buyout of RIM...

    It's pretty weird for a European!
    Using the Canadian Banking Sector/Rules in your argument probably isn't the best idea. The regulation of the Canadian Banks is what kept us out of the financial mess that banks around the world (sub prime mortgages anyone?) got themselves into.

    There have been no bank bailouts in Canada and the banks are extremely strong. Not to many countries can say that about their banks.
    10-13-11 02:57 PM
  11. Neely2005's Avatar
    The European union has similar powers to the Canadian Government for blocking things.

    As for Incredibly protectionist, apart from Banking, which thankfully is heavily controlled, and has held our economy at a much higher level than the US because of it. and Telecommunications, we don't have many protectionist things, most proectionism is to keep US interests out of Canada and slow the Americanization of the country. OH wait Wheat is also pretty protectionist.

    For Price differences between Canada and the US, it is heavily due to duties and classifications, a textile product is has 18% duties applied to it coming into the country, in the USA it has a 6% duty,
    Then our taxation is considerably higher in Canada which gets passed to the consumer as well,

    as for Canadian TV
    Corner Gas
    Little Mosque on the Prairie
    Rick Mercer report
    This Hour has 22 minutes,
    Just For Laughs
    pop off the top of my head as DVD's I have purchased or Shows I have on the PVR.

    Lots of Great Canadian Content, but it often needs to go to the US before Canadians accept it.
    Most of those shows are terrible. You could have at least listed something good like Flashpoint.
    10-13-11 03:01 PM
  12. Bla1ze's Avatar
    Can't we all just get a bong? Er.. I mean, along.
    avt123 likes this.
    10-13-11 03:08 PM
  13. avt123's Avatar
    Can't we all just get a bong? Er.. I mean, along.
    Cheers!
    10-13-11 03:13 PM
  14. graxyq's Avatar
    Here is a balanced article from Ottawa
    Relying on RIM

    May be Canadian media is making sense finally??
    10-14-11 08:09 AM
  15. xandermac's Avatar
    If those of us in the USA had even a modicum of patriotism, Enron would still be here today. Damn us.

    Seriously though, It's one thing to be proud of a company, its another to blindly defend them in the face of glaring problems.
    10-14-11 09:03 AM
  16. bounce007's Avatar
    Seriously though, It's one thing to be proud of a company, its another to blindly defend them in the face of glaring problems.
    TWO THUMBS UP! MY POINT EXACTLY!

    You can support a company without blindly defending them. Support doesn't always mean being a staunch fanatic - it sometimes mean admitting when that which you support errs and trusting them to correct those errors.
    10-14-11 09:13 AM
  17. Kg810's Avatar
    Kg810: Read the original post again. The OP is more upset about a bunch of media imposters (especially in Canada) bashing up RIM. It's the OP's right to defend a product which he/ she thinks is good (and in my opinion blackberries are still very good except for browsers on non OS7 phones and apps). I would be concerned if Indian media starts writing contorted stories about lets say a large software company in India which ultimately leads to its demise and loss of jobs for thousands. Thats plain stupid, and that is exactly what most of the Canadian media is doing now.
    Do you have selective reading? I acknowledge he mentions hearing things on the radio or reading negative comments in the newspaper, but don't go disregarding the obvious message and point of his thread and rant.

    Title of the thread = "Canadians should support RIM!"

    i am just sick and tired of canadians ripping on rim.
    Don't tell me Canadians = "Media Imposters" ... btw lol @ "media imposters"

    being canadian you should be proud to have an international company like rim!
    You MUST be right, the OP is totally addressing "Media Imposters" lol. He definately isn't talking about Canadians in general, no, that' can't be right.

    we and the mediashould support them! RIM needs to stay Canadian 100%. all these rumors of a US firm buying them is horrible. look at what AMD did to ATI!
    Oh, what the heck? Why did he mention "we"? And what the heck x 2, why did he say media and not "media imposters" DOESN'T HE KNOW THAT THERE ARE FAKE MEDIA PEOPLE!? DOESN'T HE KNOW THAT THE RADIO AND NEWSPAPERS HE READS ARE IMPOSTERS?! ZOMFG! Quick! Someone must inform the OP that there are MEDIA IMPOSTERS


    And you termed RIM as fail - how can a company fail when it is making more profits than many large global corporations, is launching new and improved product lines, making acquisitions and is still the no. 1 brand of smart phone for millions? Thats not a fair or justified argument.

    If you are a genuine poster (and I will give you the benefit of doubt), go look up the term 'character assasination' and what it can do to an individual (in this case the brand). If RIM fails (and I hope it never will), its not because their products were bad, but because of deliberate negative press over the last few years.
    Lawl... new and improved product lines? You make it sound as if that's a difficult achievement. Maybe you should go talk to major RIM investors and give them that little speech you just gave me, I'm sure it'll make them feel like they have nothing to worry about.

    LOL.. omg... I've been a lurker of this forum and I knew that this forum was filled of delusional fanboys, but man, I had NO idea that I'd be surprised by the level of denial and delusion from you guys. I seriously thought I knew what to expect, but wow, you guys go down hard just like RIM itself. I am seriously speechless that you just tried to blame RIM's failures on CHARACTER ASSASINATION. Good Lord... /facepalm

    Oh I'm SOOOO sure RIM's failures are all made up in a deliberate scheme to take them down, it can't be:

    - That they have TERRIBLE management (2 Fail CEOs)
    - That BB operating systems have ALWAYS been terrible
    - That they have zero direction and lack identity and credibility
    - That they've become a reactionary company
    - That they lack the creative and innovative juices to make real evoluntionary competitive products
    - That they've been running pathetic hardware (terrible cameras, CPU, GPU, screens, batteries, etc) up until recently
    - That browsing is terrible
    - That can't muster up any skills to adopt change (and no, don't even try to say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" - BB software and hardware is broke and should have been fixed 2 years ago)
    - They they have terrible App developer support and app ecosystem (QNX is going to fail hard because it's never been done and it's a FIRST TIME trial. No real company depends on something untried and untested and zero track record for a company bounce-back. If they manage to stay in the scene after QNX release, I don't think they'll be a real competitor until 2nd gen QNX rolls out. You'd be stupid to think that something as sketchy as this QNX OS attempt will work without a hitch)
    - That the Playbook is a huge blunder
    - They've been rehashing the same poo poo phones for YEARS and have only been riding on clueless BBM addicts

    No... those reasons above can't be real... they were totally deliberately made up by media imposters that are out to character assassinate RIM and its glory.
    10-14-11 10:34 AM
  18. Adam Zeis's Avatar
    Closing this before it gets (more) out of hand.
    10-14-11 11:07 AM
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