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  1. wing2299's Avatar
    12-28-15 10:22 AM
  2. paulwallace1234's Avatar
    Doubt it really, we would only ever see Web takeover native if all Platforms shared the same Web Engine ect, which will never happen.
    12-28-15 10:29 AM
  3. skstrials's Avatar
    I can somewhat see this happening.

    I have already replaced the apps for Ebay, Paypal, and Criagslist with webpages; and I foresee I will replace more apps with webpages in future.

    Posted via CB10
    rhitdoph likes this.
    12-28-15 11:16 AM
  4. GenghisKahn2011's Avatar
    Remember how John Chen was torched over his 'app neutrality' comments.

    He was just a few months ahead of his time.

    I have long felt HTML5 would provide the answer to the issue of cross-platform compatibility.



    BlackBerry Passport Silver Edition 10.3.2.2876 on T-Mobile
    12-28-15 01:08 PM
  5. grahamf's Avatar
    My first thought was this forum after seeing that piece.

    In a world where apps don't matter as much, Blackberry could possibly win. It has one of the (if not the) most standards compliant mobile browsers - and is pretty fast at webpage rendering.
    12-28-15 01:13 PM
  6. Zeddepher's Avatar
    Only if BB10os can hang on long enough to get there... and then be rejuvenated out of maintenance mode.

    CB10 via BlackBerry Passport Silver Edition
    12-28-15 01:44 PM
  7. Soulstream's Avatar
    I think we get one of these types of articles once every few months, and apps are still made. I will believe HTML5 is the solution that will save BB10, when BB themselves build BBM as a HTML5 app.
    12-28-15 03:14 PM
  8. rthonpm's Avatar
    Doubt it really, we would only ever see Web takeover native if all Platforms shared the same Web Engine ect, which will never happen.
    HTML doesn't care what's rendering it. Even Microsoft has all but admitted in beginning the retirement of Internet Explorer that web standards are important. There are only a few major engines anymore since, much like crypto, there's nothing to gain in building your own.

    Posted via CB10
    12-28-15 03:36 PM
  9. MikeX74's Avatar
    This is another, "BB10 doesn't have the same apps that the other guys have, so let's hope that web browsing becomes the standard" post, right?
    12-28-15 03:38 PM
  10. paulwallace1234's Avatar
    HTML doesn't care what's rendering it. Even Microsoft has all but admitted in beginning the retirement of Internet Explorer that web standards are important. There are only a few major engines anymore since, much like crypto, there's nothing to gain in building your own.

    Posted via CB10
    More concerned about what is rendering it, too much variation in what the browsers support

    Posted via CB10
    12-28-15 04:24 PM
  11. nuff_said's Avatar
    I can somewhat see this happening.

    I have already replaced the apps for Ebay, Paypal, and Criagslist with webpages; and I foresee I will replace more apps with webpages in future.

    Posted via CB10
    I've done the same with a of the apps I use. I found having the app itself installed didn't revise anymore required functionality.
    12-28-15 05:44 PM
  12. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    Ubuntu is doing it... check out scopes... :-)

    Interesting concept!

      There's a Crack in the Berry right now...  
    12-28-15 05:52 PM
  13. imcurved's Avatar
    I was happy when youtube went html5.

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2639
    12-28-15 06:14 PM
  14. silversmith75's Avatar
    I use a mixture of both I found android apps didn't work as well. And the Web page works just as good. It's nice to save it directly to app screen.

    Posted via CB10
    12-28-15 07:07 PM
  15. prplhze2000's Avatar
    Only if BB10os can hang on long enough to get there... and then be rejuvenated out of maintenance mode.

    CB10 via BlackBerry Passport Silver Edition
    Don't you know anything? Didn't you see R2 wake up after being left for close to dead or in a permanent coma? If R2D2 can come back, so can BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    12-28-15 07:35 PM
  16. crackbrry fan's Avatar
    Absolutely obsolete

    Posted via CB10
    12-28-15 07:56 PM
  17. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    The problem with this idea is that web standards lag far behind new developments. Let's say Apple or Google develops a new feature and releases an API for that feature to their developers. Devs quickly integrate that feature into their apps if it's relevant to them - better apps keep up with these types of things - but it might be 5-10 years before this feature becomes standardized enough, and agreed-upon by everyone, to become an HTML standard. Do you think devs are going to wait 5-10 years to add a feature that their competitors offer today - when that could result in that company losing (sometimes significant) ground to those competitors? No way - they'll want to add it immediately, and that means using an app.

    Did BB develop its "BB Experience Suite" of apps via HTML5? No? Why not - especially if "app neutrality" is so important? The truth is that control is what is really important, and not just to BB but to every developer. Having control means they can compete in the most efficient way possible, giving that dev the best chance at capturing and keeping their userbase - and thus their money.

    Another thing: as any dev can tell you, the promise of "write it once, run it anywhere" is never really true. Different web engines are in various stages of compliance to the web standards, and in order to be effective, a dev must assure that his app runs well on all the web engines that make up a significant portion of their userbase - and that might be a half-dozen or more. That's a lot to keep track of, and a ton of testing to do, and at some point, most devs (if their app is complex and would benefit from a UI that matched the OS's UI) will figure "I might as well make this a native app - I can provide a better experience and it isn't much more work."

    While I do think that, as mobile matures and as mobile development advancements start to plateau, more apps will move to being web apps, even if they have a native "wrapper" to make an icon. But a whole lot of apps will never become web apps, because it simply won't make sense for them to do so.

    In either case, it didn't happen soon enough to save BB10 (or Sailfish, or Firefox OS), and probably isn't going to save Ubuntu or WinPhone either (if anything will save WinPhone, it will be MS's "universal apps" for Windows 10+).
    12-28-15 08:23 PM
  18. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Remember how John Chen was torched over his 'app neutrality' comments.

    He was just a few months ahead of his time.

    I have long felt HTML5 would provide the answer to the issue of cross-platform compatibility.
    Nah. App neutrality was a hilariously bad concept then, and still is.

    I can somewhat see this happening.

    I have already replaced the apps for Ebay, Paypal, and Criagslist with webpages; and I foresee I will replace more apps with webpages in future.
    Define "replace" though.

    For some of those apps, no web access will be as seamless on mobile devices: interoperability with other apps, notifications, UI etc.

    You could be right, but I don't think apps will be replaced by webpages soon.
    12-28-15 11:45 PM
  19. mnc76's Avatar
    Not yet they can't. Maybe in 1.5 - 2 years.

    We should re-evaluate this situation in fall 2016.

    Posted via CB10
    12-29-15 02:29 AM
  20. mnc76's Avatar
    The problem with this idea is that web standards lag far behind new developments. Let's say Apple or Google develops a new feature and releases an API for that feature to their developers. Devs quickly integrate that feature into their apps if it's relevant to them - better apps keep up with these types of things - but it might be 5-10 years before this feature becomes standardized enough, and agreed-upon by everyone, to become an HTML standard. Do you think devs are going to wait 5-10 years to add a feature that their competitors offer today - when that could result in that company losing (sometimes significant) ground to those competitors? No way - they'll want to add it immediately, and that means using an app.

    Did BB develop its "BB Experience Suite" of apps via HTML5? No? Why not - especially if "app neutrality" is so important? The truth is that control is what is really important, and not just to BB but to every developer. Having control means they can compete in the most efficient way possible, giving that dev the best chance at capturing and keeping their userbase - and thus their money.

    Another thing: as any dev can tell you, the promise of "write it once, run it anywhere" is never really true. Different web engines are in various stages of compliance to the web standards, and in order to be effective, a dev must assure that his app runs well on all the web engines that make up a significant portion of their userbase - and that might be a half-dozen or more. That's a lot to keep track of, and a ton of testing to do, and at some point, most devs (if their app is complex and would benefit from a UI that matched the OS's UI) will figure "I might as well make this a native app - I can provide a better experience and it isn't much more work."

    While I do think that, as mobile matures and as mobile development advancements start to plateau, more apps will move to being web apps, even if they have a native "wrapper" to make an icon. But a whole lot of apps will never become web apps, because it simply won't make sense for them to do so.

    In either case, it didn't happen soon enough to save BB10 (or Sailfish, or Firefox OS), and probably isn't going to save Ubuntu or WinPhone either (if anything will save WinPhone, it will be MS's "universal apps" for Windows 10+).
    WORA (write once, run anywhere) can exist with Web APIs and frameworks like jquery on the lower level and angularjs, ember etc... on the higher levels.

    Iterations of everything are getting faster, including open standards. And APIs that abstract differences are getting built much faster.

    Yes. Control is an issue. But when companies with the resources of Google and Microsoft begin to feel like "outsiders", make no mistake that they will provide the necessary glue to abstract conflicting or lacking standards (like Google did with AngularJS).

    Posted via CB10
    12-29-15 02:35 AM
  21. bidirectional's Avatar
    Another thing: as any dev can tell you, the promise of "write it once, run it anywhere" is never really true.
    This.

    My GL code behaves differently on Nvidia cards and AMD cards. Want to support Intel? Better write different code for that.

    Web apps, different set of code for different browsers. Sometimes different set of codes for different versions of the same browser.

    Ever tried loading Javascript heavy pages on any BB10 device that is not Passport? Things take forever to render and respond, and your battery drops down real fast.

    See how many CVEs WebKit has because web browsers tries to be an Operating System.

    if anything will save WinPhone, it will be MS's "universal apps" for Windows 10+
    Introducing a huge set of new APIs every year only to make it obsolete the following year is not a good way to attract developers, and they have done that so many times in the past.
    Last edited by bidirectional; 12-29-15 at 05:38 AM.
    Elephant_Canyon likes this.
    12-29-15 04:46 AM
  22. Tatwi's Avatar
    Nothing server side needs to be an agreed upon standard. Client side there are only 3 major rendering engines these days and one scripting language. Yeah, I think if people take the time to make their websites, tools, etc. properly then there's no reason for mobile apps, apart from being usable while offline.

    Offline usability is, even on a mobile device, an integral function that will always need people to develop programs for though.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    12-29-15 02:44 PM
  23. MmmHmm's Avatar
    I'm not a developer, and have no background in that. Can an app running in the browser make use of new and different device hardware like fingerprint readers, Force Touch, or even just the camera? Can a browser based app communicate with your Apple or Android Wear smartwatch or run in the background and use the accelerometer for things like activity tracker apps? If all apps ran in the browser, could companies like Google, Apple, Blackberry, and Microsoft innovate on the hardware side and still give developers the tools to make use of that hardware? If not, that's a problem. Also, games make up a significant percentage of apps downloaded and games are getting more and more advanced and graphics heavy. I've never seen a game running in a mobile browser. It just seems to me that mobile browsers work well for apps where you are simply entering information and reading or viewing information that is being sent out by a server somewhere (like PayPal, YouTube, maps apps, etc), but a lot of apps do much more.
    Troy Tiscareno likes this.
    12-30-15 03:52 AM

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