[sirfly2fly]

Can RIM do what Nokia did and show off phone and features but no release date and pricing at BBJAM Americas? would it be wise? I'm sure we will see a lot more of the OS regardless at BBJAM because they gotta give developers something...

[Bla1ze]

They could. Whether or not it would be wise or not is a different story, some folks are upset it has taken this long and to dangle that carrot and give no date or pricing is a RIM trick of the past many are hoping RIM will shed. If they show it off and announce a date and pricing, it would be better received by not only users but the media as well.

Media hates no release date or pricing. Look at the Surface backlash.. the new Lumia's will see the same backlash. Heck, its already started.

[cgk]

It's just very poor marketing:

Them: "Here is amazing device X, it does Y and Z!"

Consumer: "WOW, when get I get it?"

Them:.........................

Consumer: "Hello? Hello? Is this thing on?"

The Apple event next week is not going to conclude with Tim Cook simply walking off the stage without outlining prices or release dates (which are likely to be within weeks of the event), by next weds evening, nobody will remember the nokia event.

You hook 'em and you sell 'em before their attention is distracted.

[BBThemes]

i dont think they should follow nokia on that one, their stock is currently 11.66% in the red for today.

Also, i watched the livestream, made me chuckle when just one person clapped at wireless charging lol.

[mrfreetruth]

Nokia is getting pounding in the stockmarket today as everyone seems to agree the new phone and wp8 OS just isn't that great.

FT Alphaville � “Nokia looked like they launched a camera today, not a smartphone”

[cgk]

i dont think they should follow nokia on that one, their stock is currently 11.66% in the red for today.

Also, i watched the livestream, made me chuckle when just one person clapped at wireless charging lol.

I don't know who the guy was demoing the tech but he was very poor*, he completely sucked the air out of the room.



* To be fair, he wasn't helped by the failure of the tech staff to get the demos running effectively.

[cgk]

Nokia is getting pounding in the stockmarket today as everyone seems to agree the new phone and wp8 OS just isn't that great.

FT Alphaville � �Nokia looked like they launched a camera today, not a smartphone�

They were slightly handicapped in its clear there are features of WP8 that Microsoft does not want them to demonstrate before the official full launch of WP8 - which in itself indicates some of the problems of not controlling your own OS.

[Laura Knotek]

I believe HTC will be having a Windows Phone 8 event. It will be interesting to see if they do a better job.

[BaconMunch]

I think Nokia did exactly what old RIM might have done if they forced a half baked Q4 '12 release.

-they tried to get spotlight before the iPhone 5 announcement
-major media event
-lots of emphasis on improved camera capabilities
-nice in-house evolution in apps
-incomplete details on new OS
-no major app deals, just proof that HTML5 website works
-no launch details

This 3rd smartphone competitor only has one chance to make a good impression and for once I'm relieved RIM is still holding it's cards close.

I am also starting to see how the OS owners (Google and Microsoft) have a tight leash on these hardware manufacturers and am glad that RIM did not sell out (although heavily leaned) it's software division.

[texazzpete]

1. Nokia cannot announce a release date until Microsoft tells the world when Windows Phone 8 will launch

2. Mildly ironic that you guys were going into near orgasms at RIM's scalado camera demo earlier in the year, but Nokia's vastly more impressive demo is supposedly 'not that great'.


The buzz on tech sites is that most folks were pretty impressed with the Lumia 920. It looks really killer, specs are now up there with the best of Android, the OS looks awesome and is more fluid than iOS and Android...and beats any phone on Android, iOS, BB OS in camera performance and screen quality.

I have serious doubts that anything RIM can pull out of the box can match the Lumia 920 for screen and camera...most likely no offline Navigation built in too. But we'll see.

[cgk]

2. Mildly ironic that you guys were going into near orgasms at RIM's scalado camera demo earlier in the year, but Nokia's vastly more impressive demo is supposedly 'not that great'.

My lumia 800 already does that scalado camera trick (I think due to the nokia camera app) but honestly I can't see either doing much for sales of either nokia or RIM. To me the Lumia 820 and 920 look too similar to two phones that the majority of the general population have already turned their backs on and if the RIM photos leaks are real, that looks so generic that I had trouble keeping my eyes open while looking at it.

[Laura Knotek]

I believe WP8 will launch at the same time as Windows8. It sounds like Microsoft wants to roll out the new desktop OS and the new mobile OS simultaneously.

[louzer]

These dog and pony shows always have a risk associated with them. Host them too early and people complain about an incomplete package. Host them too late and people complain that you're too late to the game.

This was not as much a MS event as it was a Nokia event. They felt a need to get some spotlight prior to the iPhone 5 event next week. The major difference between the two is that Apple should be poised to launch and deliver simultaneously. Nokia has the hardware complete, but has to wait for MS to officially launch WP8. With RIM in control of both the hardware and software, they are in a better position to showcase whatever and whenever they want.

As far as pricing and availability is concerned for Nokia (and RIM and the others, for that matter), they have to have sealed deals with the carriers before they can discuss this. If Nokia came out and said that the 920 would be available for $149.99 to try to slightly undercut other 'hero' devices, and the carriers refused to pitch in enough for the subsidy, then Nokia would be losing money out of the gate.

[texazzpete]

Nokia is getting pounding in the stockmarket today as everyone seems to agree the new phone and wp8 OS just isn't that great.

FT Alphaville � �Nokia looked like they launched a camera today, not a smartphone�

I glanced through that article...simply awful reporting. There were loads of camera and screen innovations from Nokia at that event. Stock market dips aren't the key issue...it's Nokia's ability to sell these devices that matter. For the first time, Nokia's got a device that rivals the big players...and comes with a big, hi-res screen.

It's all a domino effect, really. This phone WILL be positively reviewed. Windows 8 will likely drive buyers towards WP8.

Read up on Gizmodo, theverge, Engadget etc...the responses to the Lumia 920 are extremely positive so far.

[Laura Knotek]

They could. Whether or not it would be wise or not is a different story, some folks are upset it has taken this long and to dangle that carrot and give no date or pricing is a RIM trick of the past many are hoping RIM will shed. If they show it off and announce a date and pricing, it would be better received by not only users but the media as well.

Media hates no release date or pricing. Look at the Surface backlash.. the new Lumia's will see the same backlash. Heck, its already started.

I believe the Surface was intended more to shake up the market and get the OEMs to innovate. There have been no pricing or release dates by the OEMs either for their Win8 or WinRT devices, but they are also starting to announce products. HP announced this ultrabook, and Lenovo and Dell have also announced products.

[mrfreetruth]

The fact is nokia launched what seems to be a camera which could explain nokia stock down over 11% so far. I find it funny the media hasn't bashed nokia like it bashes RIM. If RIm was down 11% after a presentation it would be all over the news. But that doesn't stop the truth from leaking out into the web. FT Alphaville � “Nokia looked like they launched a camera today, not a smartphone”

[GTiLeo]

1. Nokia cannot announce a release date until Microsoft tells the world when Windows Phone 8 will launch

2. Mildly ironic that you guys were going into near orgasms at RIM's scalado camera demo earlier in the year, but Nokia's vastly more impressive demo is supposedly 'not that great'.


The buzz on tech sites is that most folks were pretty impressed with the Lumia 920. It looks really killer, specs are now up there with the best of Android, the OS looks awesome and is more fluid than iOS and Android...and beats any phone on Android, iOS, BB OS in camera performance and screen quality.

I have serious doubts that anything RIM can pull out of the box can match the Lumia 920 for screen and camera...most likely no offline Navigation built in too. But we'll see.

when RIM demoed the camera all they really demoed was the time warp thing where you can rewind and fast forward a point in the picture and it was wowed at, it was a bar raiser so to speak, no one expected it, since then maybe whats expected from a camera has changed because of that demo and not so many peopel were in the same wow zone as they were when RIM showed this feature. whatever it is you can't at this point in time say that RIMs camera system is lacking and not as impressive as Nokia's, only one feature was shown and we still don't know what else will be present they after all are using the same Scalado software as Nokia.

as far as being visually pleasing i do not even remotly feel this. personally i t hink the poly plastic looks cheesey, the colors are to much and the whole device looks sort of fisher price. i used to be a fan of Windows Phone but seeing this demo i find it to be to cluttered and dull as far as the UI goes. there are way to many tiles on the screen and really theres not enough color, no background wall paper to give a sort of different look.

all together i disagree with what you've stated but i've been wrong abotu things in the past, i've said the 9900/9930 would be a game changer, but it failed to do so

[mrfreetruth]

I glanced through that article...simply awful reporting. There were loads of camera and screen innovations from Nokia at that event. Stock market dips aren't the key issue...it's Nokia's ability to sell these devices that matter. For the first time, Nokia's got a device that rivals the big players...and comes with a big, hi-res screen.

It's all a domino effect, really. This phone WILL be positively reviewed. Windows 8 will likely drive buyers towards WP8.

Read up on Gizmodo, theverge, Engadget etc...the responses to the Lumia 920 are extremely positive so far.

I disagree as the stock market is pounding nokia which is now down over 11% is the real response to the Lumia 920. Like many are saying it's not a smartphone but more a camera and from the 30 mins they spent talking about a camera during the boring presentation is proof enough.

FT Alphaville � “Nokia looked like they launched a camera today, not a smartphone”

[cgk]

The fact is nokia launched what seems to be a camera which could explain nokia stock down over 11% so far. I find it funny the media hasn't bashed nokia like it bashes RIM. If RIm was down 11% after a presentation it would be all over the news. But that doesn't stop the truth from leaking out into the web.

This was what I could find in two minutes:

Nokia shows off flagship Lumia 920, powered by Windows Phone 8


It's a big step for the company, which is doubling down on its bet that an alliance with Microsoft can pull the company out of a deep sales swoon. But the market appears to dislike that gamble.

Stock of Nokia Oyj, the division of the company responsible for making smartphones, was down at one point more than 15 percent in response the new-phone news, while Nokia's stock was down 11 percent.

Nokia shows off flagship Lumia 920, powered by Windows Phone 8 | Fox News

Nokia share price plummets 13% after Lumia 920, 820 launch

Shares in beleaguered telecom giant Nokia slumped 13 percent on Wednesday on the Helsinki stock exchange as the company launched a new smartphone using Microsoft's Windows Phone 8 operating system.

Nokia share price plummets 13% after Lumia 920, 820 launch - The Economic Times

Nokia share price slumps as Lumia 920 fails to convince investors

Nokia's share price dropped by over 10 percent during the firm's Lumia 920 announcement as investors remain unconvinced by the firm's mobile strategy.
An hour after the event began the share price was down 11.48 percent to $2.51 per share, suggesting the tie-up with Microsoft and its soon-to-be-released Windows Phone 8 platform are still not seen as a threat to Android and Apple's market dominance.

Nokia share price slumps as Lumia 920 fails to convince investors - IT News from V3.co.uk

Nokia stock fall after smartphone launch

Nokia shares nose-dived as it unveiled its latest Windows-powered smartphone in what may be its last chance at winning back a lucrative market lost to rivals.

The Finnish company's share price crashed by 18% before rallying back to 10% as it unveiled what it called the 'most innovative smartphone in the world' at a glitzy launch in New York.

Sky News: Nokia stock fall after smartphone launch

Nokia shows off new Lumia phones; stock falls 11 percent

September 5, 2012 ( -- Nokia revealed its first smartphones to run the next version of Windows, a big step for a company that has bet its future on an alliance with Microsoft. Investors were disappointed, and Nokia's stock fell sharply Wednesday

Nokia shows off new Windows smart phone Lumia 920, 820; stocks fall 11 percent; investors disapprove | abc7chicago.com

[texazzpete]

I disagree as the stock market is pounding nokia which is now down over 11% is the real response to the Lumia 920. Like many are saying it's not a smartphone but more a camera and from the 30 mins they spent talking about a camera during the boring presentation is proof enough.

FT Alphaville � �Nokia looked like they launched a camera today, not a smartphone�

Ok, so you're saying BB10 is going to be an abject failure? I seem to recall RIM stock price also nose-diving after the initial BB10 reveal.

[texazzpete]

Nokia shows off flagship Lumia 920, powered by Windows Phone 8 | Fox News




Nokia share price plummets 13% after Lumia 920, 820 launch - The Economic Times




Nokia share price slumps as Lumia 920 fails to convince investors - IT News from V3.co.uk



Sky News: Nokia stock fall after smartphone launch



Nokia shows off new Windows smart phone Lumia 920, 820; stocks fall 11 percent; investors disapprove | abc7chicago.com

You have to realize that the stock slump is due to multiple factors including

1) The terrible fact that Nokia sold only 4 million Lumia phones last quarter

2) Reports that Nokia will have to write off nearly 1 million Lumia 800 and 900 devices and probably firesale them.

3) The fact that No price, release date and partners were announced.



I'll bet anything that the market unhappiness is much more due to these factors than the phone just announced today.

[Alex_Hong]

Honestly, i'm not digging the new Lumia series. I still prefer the Lumia 800's design. The Lumia 920 is 50g heavier than Samsung Galaxy S3, I'm not so sure about that though. The bigger you are, the harder you fall? The camera was impressive imo, though still have to see real live performance though, and how it really stacks up against other phones. Other than that, still very little known about WP8. Inductive charging's accessories was more interesting than I thought it would be though.

Anyway, no time to gather too much thoughts on that. I still think its a bad timing to announce anything since the product isn't available, and the news would probably be over-shadowed by Apple's event. Even by the time (rumoured to be sept 21st) that the iPhone will ship, no WP8 phone will be available yet. So...

Anyway, watching Motorola's event now. Perhaps a MotoNexus? hahaha.

[cgk]

You have to realize that the stock slump is due to multiple factors including

1) The terrible fact that Nokia sold only 4 million Lumia phones last quarter

2) Reports that Nokia will have to write off nearly 1 million Lumia 800 and 900 devices and probably firesale them.

3) The fact that No price, release date and partners were announced.



I'll bet anything that the market unhappiness is much more due to these factors than the phone just announced today.

I wouldn't dispute any of that - rather I arguing against the usual "ZOMG IF IT WAS RIM, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN ALL OVER THE NEWS" conspiracy nonsense we see rather than making any specific point about stock prices.

[Alex_Hong]

How in the world motorola manage to pack that much battery into a phone that size. RIM has a thing or 2 to learn from them. hahaha.

[cgk]

How in the world motorola manage to pack that much battery into a phone that size. RIM has a thing or 2 to learn from them. hahaha.

Also "Pre-order today, available next week" - I was thinking of the nokia 920 but if the battery life is along the lines they claim there - I'm going to have to think again - do we have any idea what battery life is going to be like on the bb10 devices yet?