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07-08-19 05:04 AM
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  1. bh7171's Avatar
    Too bad BlackBerry did not and does not have anyone as dynamic and eloquent to explain BlackBerry's ethos on security and privacy.

    The Guardian: Tim Cook: 'If you’ve built a chaos factory, you can’t dodge responsibility for the chaos'.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-for-the-chaos
    06-19-19 02:58 PM
  2. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Does BlackBerry have an ethos... I view them more as a soulless corporation, especially now that they aren't a consumer facing company. Apple on the other hand, their business is built on the consumer. So at least showing that they care is very important to their future business.
    06-19-19 03:12 PM
  3. sorinv's Avatar
    What a great speech! A few years late, but better late...

    Posted via CB10
    06-20-19 08:37 PM
  4. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Too bad BlackBerry did not and does not have anyone as dynamic and eloquent to explain BlackBerry's ethos on security and privacy.

    The Guardian: Tim Cook: 'If you’ve built a chaos factory, you can’t dodge responsibility for the chaos'.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-for-the-chaos
    While it sounds great, if you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem.... I’d bet 3-1 odds, if still alive, Steve Jobs would’ve punched him in the mouth. I also wouldn’t be surprised if, at next tech summit, Elon Musk doesn’t just to honor Steve Jobs somehow...
    06-20-19 09:14 PM
  5. Bbnivende's Avatar
    While it sounds great, if you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem.... I’d bet 3-1 odds, if still alive, Steve Jobs would’ve punched him in the mouth. I also wouldn’t be surprised if, at next tech summit, Elon Musk doesn’t just to honor Steve Jobs somehow...
    What is in this article that prompts the opinion that Tim Cook deserves a punch the nose from Elon Musk?
    06-20-19 09:53 PM
  6. Thud Hardsmack's Avatar
    What is in this article that prompts the opinion that Tim Cook deserves a punch the nose from Elon Musk?
    If anyone it's Mark Zuckerberg that needs a punch in the nose from that article.
    rarsen and bh7171 like this.
    06-21-19 12:31 AM
  7. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    What is in this article that prompts the opinion that Tim Cook deserves a punch the nose from Elon Musk?
    When a participant in some act claims there intentions were the ever noble as compared to fellow participants, keep your hand on your wallet and your belt cinched extra tight.

    All these tech giants have made their money as the people chose to participate with their currency whether be cash, data or privacy. Nothing in life is free. The founders never apologize for what they’ve created. It’s what creates the Apple, Google and Microsoft technologies, products and companies. What revolutionary new product has Tim Cook introduced?

    He’s demonized what he’s involved with selling. That’s hubris where he should have just kept his mouth shut. Actions speak louder than words.
    rarsen likes this.
    06-21-19 07:46 AM
  8. Invictus0's Avatar
    When a participant in some act claims there intentions were the ever noble as compared to fellow participants, keep your hand on your wallet and your belt cinched extra tight.

    All these tech giants have made their money as the people chose to participate with their currency whether be cash, data or privacy. Nothing in life is free. The founders never apologize for what they’ve created. It’s what creates the Apple, Google and Microsoft technologies, products and companies. What revolutionary new product has Tim Cook introduced?

    He’s demonized what he’s involved with selling. That’s hubris where he should have just kept his mouth shut. Actions speak louder than words.
    Apple doesn't sell or monetize user data, their entire mobile business model is making money off devices, app store purchases, and subscriptions. They've pioneered on device machine learning when their competitors have largely opted to do everything with "big data", user profiles, etc.

    Where they've failed until recently is with third party apps on their platform but even this is changing. They're blocking web based trackers by default and some third party app trackers as well. iOS 13 is taking this a step further by limiting how much third parties can know about you and your location without your consent.

    https://www.macworld.com/article/340...r-privacy.html

    They aren't perfect but with only two options on the market they're basically the only alternative for users that want privacy and access to modern apps and services.
    06-21-19 09:59 AM
  9. Bbnivende's Avatar
    I could be wrong but I get the feeling that Chuck’s view might be that Tim Cook / Apple are a not in favour of the trade war and therefore operating against USA interests.
    06-21-19 03:38 PM
  10. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I could be wrong but I get the feeling that Chuck’s view might be that Tim Cook / Apple are a not in favour of the trade war and therefore operating against USA interests.
    You're wrong. I've never been a Tim Cook fan. As much as I'm a BlackBerry guy, I admire Steve Jobs as business visionary that saved his Apple Corporation from damnation.

    You're right that Apple says they're against trade war but I believe Tim Cook talks from both sides of his mouth and reinforces some of the negative business stereotypes while claiming otherwise. I admire Bill Gates as well for many of the same reasons in building Microsoft and it's dominant attitude.

    Ultimately, I just favor business operations that admit profit motive is only real motive. All the other claims are disingenuous and opportunistic from most corporations most of time.
    06-21-19 05:49 PM
  11. sorinv's Avatar
    You're wrong. I've never been a Tim Cook fan. As much as I'm a BlackBerry guy, I admire Steve Jobs as business visionary that saved his Apple Corporation from damnation.

    You're right that Apple says they're against trade war but I believe Tim Cook talks from both sides of his mouth and reinforces some of the negative business stereotypes while claiming otherwise. I admire Bill Gates as well for many of the same reasons in building Microsoft and it's dominant attitude.

    Ultimately, I just favor business operations that admit profit motive is only real motive. All the other claims are disingenuous and opportunistic from most corporations most of time.
    Yes. However, Steve Jobs never cared about privacy, on the contrary, while Tim Cook does. That's the clear difference between Jobs' apple and Cook's apple. Yes, no new products under Cook, but he is not a hypocrite on privacy.

    Posted via CB10
    Tsepz_GP likes this.
    06-21-19 11:42 PM
  12. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Yes. However, Steve Jobs never cared about privacy, on the contrary, while Tim Cook does. That's the clear difference between Jobs' apple and Cook's apple. Yes, no new products under Cook, but he is not a hypocrite on privacy.

    Posted via CB10
    Tim Cook doesn’t care anymore than Steve Jobs about privacy. Hypocrisy at it’s finest. Actions speak much louder than words. The only thing anyone cares about with the privacy component is whether there’s any profits.

    I don’t care about the privacy aspect since I support the Android/iOS business model and I always have because I don’t believe in free lunches and nice corporations, just the cost of doing business and the corporate profit motive.
    06-22-19 02:58 AM
  13. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    Apple doesn't sell or monetize user data, their entire mobile business model is making money off devices, app store purchases, and subscriptions. They've pioneered on device machine learning when their competitors have largely opted to do everything with "big data", user profiles, etc.

    Where they've failed until recently is with third party apps on their platform but even this is changing. They're blocking web based trackers by default and some third party app trackers as well. iOS 13 is taking this a step further by limiting how much third parties can know about you and your location without your consent.

    https://www.macworld.com/article/340...r-privacy.html

    They aren't perfect but with only two options on the market they're basically the only alternative for users that want privacy and access to modern apps and services.
    Exactly.

    Apple actually realized that Siri was breaking privacy and pulled it back to ensure it does on device machine learning instead of big data usage.

    Tim Cook has made a lot of changes to Apple since the Jobs era, particularly in how they handle data, from the point where Cook took over, Apple began its shift to ensuring more data privacy, I think Tim Cook could see where Google and Facebook were headed and didn’t want the same for Apple.

    Yes. However, Steve Jobs never cared about privacy, on the contrary, while Tim Cook does. That's the clear difference between Jobs' apple and Cook's apple. Yes, no new products under Cook, but he is not a hypocrite on privacy.

    Posted via CB10
    Indeed, Tim Cook’s Apple has been more customer centric than Jobs.

    A clear indication is how the Apple Maps saga was handled vs Antenna-gate. When. Apple Maps was released, Cook was at the helm and when all the issues began to get out Cook apologized to customers and even fired Scott Forstall who has refused to apologize for the issues in Apple Maps. On the other hand when Antenna-gate happed, Steve Jobs was at the helm and told people they were holding the phone wrong and wanted to point fingers at other OEMs to, all while trying to solve the issue with software updates and bumper cases.
    Invictus0 and Anilu7 like this.
    06-22-19 04:24 AM
  14. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Exactly.

    Apple actually realized that Siri was breaking privacy and pulled it back to ensure it does on device machine learning instead of big data usage.

    Tim Cook has made a lot of changes to Apple since the Jobs era, particularly in how they handle data, from the point where Cook took over, Apple began its shift to ensuring more data privacy, I think Tim Cook could see where Google and Facebook were headed and didn’t want the same for Apple.



    Indeed, Tim Cook’s Apple has been more customer centric than Jobs.

    A clear indication is how the Apple Maps saga was handled vs Antenna-gate. When. Apple Maps was released, Cook was at the helm and when all the issues began to get out Cook apologized to customers and even fired Scott Forstall who has refused to apologize for the issues in Apple Maps. On the other hand when Antenna-gate happed, Steve Jobs was at the helm and told people they were holding the phone wrong and wanted to point fingers at other OEMs to, all while trying to solve the issue with software updates and bumper cases.
    The handling of things has been different however, the company and It's executive management know what’s going on in the development of these products. Apple, Google and Microsoft all experiment with each other’s business habits and business models. I’m not saying business model isn’t awesome, I own an XR as primary dual carry.

    What I’m referring to is the feigning of concern to said business model and business habits as if just discovered or learned by lead executives. When internally grown inside the company, these executives live and breath the culture and the product.

    It’s not like hiring an outsider like Chen or when Sculley was hired from Pepsi to run Apple but have a steep company learning curve.
    06-22-19 05:10 AM
  15. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    The handling of things has been different however, the company and It's executive management know what’s going on in the development of these products. Apple, Google and Microsoft all experiment with each other’s business habits and business models. I’m not saying business model isn’t awesome, I own an XR as primary dual carry.

    What I’m referring to is the feigning of concern to said business model and business habits as if just discovered or learned by lead executives. When internally grown inside the company, these executives live and breath the culture and the product.

    It’s not like hiring an outsider like Chen or when Sculley was hired from Pepsi to run Apple but have a steep company learning curve.
    My understanding of the situation is that all these Silicone Valley companies try and ensure that they offer the most popular software and experiences in their products, but Tim Cook And his team are not always privy to what Mark Zuckerburg and Sundar Pichai’s teams are working on and what their roadmap looks like.

    I’ll give a good example, Steve Jobs shortly after the 1st iPhone was unveiled went and met with the Chairman of Samsung at the time, he took the iPhone prototype and gave him all the details about it, this is due to the fact that they were not just business partners but also friends, but immediately after Jobs left Korea, Samsung hit the ground running with their iteration of an iPhone competitor and shifted resources to building the Galaxy brand. So Apple opened themselves up not realizing that they are creating a competitor out of their supplier.

    So in the end these companies know little about their business partners actual strategies, and its usually later when they pick up on them and take action.

    iOS13 is a good example of Apple wanting to give users more control over what Google and Facebook on Apple devices. They to find out through exploit revelations and data leak announcements that company X’s app is accessing a certain amount of data. Also from what I am seeing, Apple for a long time have been working towards limiting Facebook/Google etc... access to user data on Apple devices, without breaking any contracts they have with them. As you know, Google pays Apple $billions a year to be the default search engine on iOS devices and Apple gladly take this money, but they also want to ensure that Google is not overstepping boundaries with consumer data on Apple devices, hence allowing its users more control over what Google takes from Apple devices.
    06-22-19 08:45 AM
  16. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    My understanding of the situation is that all these Silicone Valley companies try and ensure that they offer the most popular software and experiences in their products, but Tim Cook And his team are not always privy to what Mark Zuckerburg and Sundar Pichai’s teams are working on and what their roadmap looks like.

    I’ll give a good example, Steve Jobs shortly after the 1st iPhone was unveiled went and met with the Chairman of Samsung at the time, he took the iPhone prototype and gave him all the details about it, this is due to the fact that they were not just business partners but also friends, but immediately after Jobs left Korea, Samsung hit the ground running with their iteration of an iPhone competitor and shifted resources to building the Galaxy brand. So Apple opened themselves up not realizing that they are creating a competitor out of their supplier.

    So in the end these companies know little about their business partners actual strategies, and its usually later when they pick up on them and take action.

    iOS13 is a good example of Apple wanting to give users more control over what Google and Facebook on Apple devices. They to find out through exploit revelations and data leak announcements that company X’s app is accessing a certain amount of data. Also from what I am seeing, Apple for a long time have been working towards limiting Facebook/Google etc... access to user data on Apple devices, without breaking any contracts they have with them. As you know, Google pays Apple $billions a year to be the default search engine on iOS devices and Apple gladly take this money, but they also want to ensure that Google is not overstepping boundaries with consumer data on Apple devices, hence allowing its users more control over what Google takes from Apple devices.
    My point is there’s no social agenda or social awareness that corporations support without profit motive, at least not the largest trillion dollar cap publicly traded ones. Companies may go back and try and build upon a perception, however it’s just that. We all know from Microsoft and BlackBerry specifically plus many OEMs that, consumers buy and large don’t care about privacy and security just by Android vs iOS share comparison.

    If you think, Apple executives really care, great. I don’t believe either Android/iOS platform was designed with user privacy in mind. I also don’t believe Windows/BB10 had privacy as the primary concern had either company had developer success with their respective ecosystems. All these corporations have single underlying responsibility to shareholders and that’s it.
    06-22-19 10:25 AM
  17. chain13's Avatar
    Apple doesn't sell or monetize user data, their entire mobile business model is making money off devices, app store purchases, and subscriptions. They've pioneered on device machine learning when their competitors have largely opted to do everything with "big data", user profiles, etc.

    Where they've failed until recently is with third party apps on their platform but even this is changing. They're blocking web based trackers by default and some third party app trackers as well. iOS 13 is taking this a step further by limiting how much third parties can know about you and your location without your consent.

    https://www.macworld.com/article/340...r-privacy.html

    They aren't perfect but with only two options on the market they're basically the only alternative for users that want privacy and access to modern apps and services.
    Exactly, even safari masks the user as anonym as possible while browsing.
    06-22-19 11:12 AM
  18. conite's Avatar
    While Apple's apparent altruistic intent to not monetise its users' data is commendable, it can only exist as a business model because they have a small (relative to Google) customer base willing to pay exorbitant prices for its products.

    I do not see this ending well for Apple because I don't think people will continue to be that brainwashed receptive in light of the incredible hardware that is becoming available at a fraction of the cost.
    Last edited by conite; 06-22-19 at 12:08 PM.
    dilijasi likes this.
    06-22-19 11:48 AM
  19. Invictus0's Avatar
    Exactly.

    Apple actually realized that Siri was breaking privacy and pulled it back to ensure it does on device machine learning instead of big data usage.

    Tim Cook has made a lot of changes to Apple since the Jobs era, particularly in how they handle data, from the point where Cook took over, Apple began its shift to ensuring more data privacy, I think Tim Cook could see where Google and Facebook were headed and didn’t want the same for Apple.
    Yup, I see what Chuck is saying (profit is a good motivator for a business afterall) but at the end of the day, Apple's privacy push is tangible and consumers have an option on the market to vote for. If Apple is successful it goes without saying that Google, Facebook, Amazon, etc investors would want those companies to follow.
    app_Developer likes this.
    06-22-19 11:51 AM
  20. Bbnivende's Avatar
    While Apple's apparent altruistic intent to not monetise its users' data is commendable, it can only exist as a business model because they have a small (relative to Google) customer base willing to pay exorbitant prices for its products.

    I do not see this ending well for Apple because I don't think people will continue to be that brainwashed receptive in light of the incredible hardware that is becoming available at a fraction of the cost.
    If I buy an XR today, I know that I will likely get four years of good service including OS updates and security patches. Parts will be easy to come by and I can even deal with a brick and mortar store if I want.

    I would expect maybe two to three years for a mid range Android and many never see a battery replacement.

    I think the XR is not cheap but reasonable if you intend on going past one battery replacement.

    Still though, Apple needs a new lower priced device - an SE with about a 5.5 inch screen. Internals of about an iPhone 8 would be fine.
    TgeekB likes this.
    06-22-19 12:22 PM
  21. Invictus0's Avatar
    Still though, Apple needs a new lower priced device - an SE with about a 5.5 inch screen. Internals of about an iPhone 8 would be fine.
    They tend to relegate their older devices to midrange status. You can buy an iPhone 7 or 8 from Apple at the same price as many higher end Android midrange devices. You're getting better hardware (camera, SOC, faster memory, waterproofing, etc) than virtually any Android midrange and just as much - if not more - support.

    It would be interesting to see Apple take on the lower tier midrange with a new device. For all of their talk about privacy, it's still only a privilege for those that can afford it.
    06-22-19 02:19 PM
  22. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    While Apple's apparent altruistic intent to not monetise its users' data is commendable, it can only exist as a business model because they have a small (relative to Google) customer base willing to pay exorbitant prices for its products.

    I do not see this ending well for Apple because I don't think people will continue to be that brainwashed receptive in light of the incredible hardware that is becoming available at a fraction of the cost.
    They will have to adapt. Apple will have to do what they did before and offer cheaper yet competitive versions of the iPhone.

    They will approach this the way they did iPod, I believe. When they announced the iPod Shuffle they were very aware of the fact that their lunch was being eaten by low end MP3 players, and they released the Shuffle and the Nano, which absolutely obliterated their competitors.

    What Apple have got going for them is the iOS ecosystem , where devices can be supported for up to 5 years of Security and OS updates, the iPhone 6/6 Plus were released in 2014 and are only losing support now in 2019 at iOS 12.3.1, an update that made all phones faster and smoother.

    They also have incredible hardware that is about a generation ahead of competitors, the Apple A11 Bionic released in 2017 is still competitive with the 2019 flagships, and the A12 Bionic released in 2018 is outperforming the 2019 stuff, managing to run 60FPS games without dropping frames and record 4K@60FPS video without limit, that is what the low end iPhone XR is capable of.

    Apple can release some low ends with the A11 Bionic and Mid ends with the A12 Bionic, 2-3GB RAM, throw in some good 1080P Displays and Dual Camera with 2x Zoom and Fingerprint Scanner/TouchID (less expensive), and they could easily dominate and keep those devices updated until 2024.

    We should see an updated XR and SE models this year, but at the same time, Apple do still take the lions share of mobile markets profits despite less shipments, due to their ASP being almost double Samsung’s and Huawei’s, so for Apple it will be more of a situation of ensuring they continue to maintain steady profits from hardware while getting more money in software (subscriptions and content).

    Let’s not forget that Apple are not having an issue of people leaving iPhone, it’s more an issue of people keeping their iPhones longer, hence Apple have also done a Battery Replacement program, as time goes by, Apple will have steady fluctuations of people buying and steady drops as those people keep those devices for 2-3years thanks to the great support and batter program, so they just need to ensure they keep supplying good reasons to spend with them on Apple Music, App Store, iCloud, Apple TV and now the Apple Credit Card to. Won’t be surprised if Apple try to make iMessage more of a WeChat type of system where people with Apple Cards can send cash, pay bills, manage identity documents etc.... this could explain their focus on security to.
    chain13 likes this.
    06-22-19 04:50 PM
  23. Bbnivende's Avatar
    There are deals to be had for 7’s and 8’s but only if you sign a two year contract.
    06-22-19 05:33 PM
  24. TgeekB's Avatar
    I just fired up my SE and updated to the latest beta. The thing still runs like it did the first day I got it.
    Tsepz_GP and elfabio80 like this.
    06-22-19 06:44 PM
  25. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I just fired up my SE and updated to the latest beta. The thing still runs like it did the first day I got it.
    Does that include the battery life and screen that I don’t miss from the 5 that I used last year before the XR BOGO special...
    06-22-19 07:26 PM
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