[morpho4444]

lots of people here think bb10 1.0 is going to be more refined than Android 4.2. the question is why?

Why? for once... I have to open GMAIL app for gmail, hotmail app for hotmail, and if I want to check my company's email I need to open another damn app. If you want to check SMS, open Messages App, then the same for facebook and any other app.
Blackberry get rids of the in and out paradigm, The main messaging apps are already there on your hub.

Multitasking and keyboard is way better than android. On android you dont get the type of text prediction you have on BB10. Swipe? Swiftkey? Those are not android, those are apps. and are not free.. I have samsung galaxy s3 and I hate the user experience. I dont even get Twitter notifications.... and If you claim that BB10 camera is already done by the galaxy note 2, well that is ****! I have a flagship phone from Samsung and I dont have it!.

[morpho4444]

Only with one browser that I don't even use. I told everyone I don't like chrome, I even uninstalled it from my Nexus. I use AOSP browser, which easily beats Dev Alpha's browser in sunspider. But who cares? It is just a synthetic benchmark that doesn't really reflect real world use. So, what's your point exactly? Lol we should see how chrome, Firefox and dolphin browsers perform on BB10. Oh wait... That won't work will it? I would say we should compare how well each device can stream Netflix, but oops again. Can't try that one out either. Blah now I have the Power boom boom boom song stuck in my head Lol.

The point is that it cannot be called a Alpha low end device if the OS itself beats the so called Android High End device. That what you were talking about? isn't that clear?

More easy for you, because I dont want you to get confuse with these advance calculus.

You say: BB10 London is catching up, therefore, BB10 london is low end device
Nexus 4 has better hardware, therefore is a high end device
I say: BB10 is not low end device because it outperforms Nexus 4.

So bb10 is high end. What part confused you? how come is so difficult for you to see my point?

[Saiga]

The point is that it cannot be called a Alpha low end device if the OS itself beats the so called Android High End device. That what you were talking about? isn't that clear?

More easy for you, because I dont want you to get confuse with these advance calculus.

You say: BB10 London is catching up, therefore, BB10 london is low end device
Nexus 4 has better hardware, therefore is a high end device
I say: BB10 is not low end device because it outperforms Nexus 4.

So bb10 is high end. What part confused you? how come is so difficult for you to see my point?

Lol are you alright dude?

Please tell me about your experience using BlackBerry 10. Have you ever even been in the same room with a BlackBerry 10 device?

You claim BlackBerry 10 out perfoms Android 4.2.1, so please tell me about your experience with my Nexus 4's OS, since you know I'm sure you've used it. Lol

I'm not really sure what you are going on about, but you will notice that I'm not talking about the user experince or the going in and out of apps. I'm talking about the hardware. And no matter how you put it, the BlackBerry 10 devices will launch with hardware you find in low end devices. They are low end devices as far as hardware goes.

[lnichols]

And no matter how you put it, the BlackBerry 10 devices will launch with hardware you find in low end devices. They are low end devices as far as hardware goes.

So the S4 that many new high end phones use is low end hardware? The L won't have an 8MP rear camera like the Nexus 4? The Nexus 4 has LTE in it or a 356 ppi screen? Whatever, just keep pimping your Android wares and bashing BB10 and RIM here on CrackBerry. The rest of us will just enjoy our "low end" devices when we get them. Makes you wonder what deficiency all these Android spec nerds feel the need to compensate for with huge screens a cores?

[Saiga]

So the S4 that many new high end phones use is low end hardware? The L won't have an 8MP rear camera like the Nexus 4? The Nexus 4 has LTE in it or a 356 ppi screen? Whatever, just keep pimping your Android wares and bashing BB10 and RIM here on CrackBerry. The rest of us will just enjoy our "low end" devices when we get them. Makes you wonder what deficiency all these Android spec nerds feel the need to compensate for with huge screens a cores?

Samsung, HTC, LG, Motorola, their flagship devices all have current hardware. If you think a dual core and 1gb of ram is high end in 2013 then you need introduced to 2011. Hey, genius. If the L-series is "high end" then what is the rumored A-series with a quad core and 2gb of ram? Would that be considered uber high end? Lol people need to wake up and get a grip on reality. BB10 will be behind the curve as far as hardware goes just like BB7 devices were when they launched.

Just think. Samsung will announce the S IV a couple of weeks before the first BB10 devices get announced. Oh I sure hope Samsung goes with one of them there high end dual core S4s like the free on contract Galaxy Stellar uses. Lol you do know that the name S4 doesn't mean its a high end processor right? But hey thanks for bring it up and accidentally proving my point for me. Do a Google search. The completely low end, free on contract Samsung Galaxy Stellar uses a dual core S4 processor. The Pantech Marauder is another low end device that launched for free with a contract and it also uses the S4. These phones came out months ago as low end devices. How can anyone consider the L-series' hardware as high end when these undeniable and easily proven facts exists?

Nah Samsung will use current high end hardware. I wonder what the fanboys will say once there is a BB10 device launched with actual high end hardware. Actually no I'm pretty sure I know what they will say. They don't need it since all of em will be locked into a contract on a L-series or an N-series Lol.

[Hawkeberry]

lol spec wars is crazy. What exactly will Samsung S4 do that S3 cannot? I have a sony xperia S with what you call "2011" hardware. I am yet to use any app that challenges the 1.5 ghz dual core CPU or a game that lags on this. Except for brag value, there isn't much to gain. And if you want a mobile just for bragging, Vertu will be better, not the Samsung

[Saiga]

lol spec wars is crazy. What exactly will Samsung S4 do that S3 cannot? I have a sony xperia S with what you call "2011" hardware. I am yet to use any app that challenges the 1.5 ghz dual core CPU or a game that lags on this. Except for brag value, there isn't much to gain. And if you want a mobile just for bragging, Vertu will be better, not the Samsung

RIM desperately needs a device that they can brag about. You know reviewers are going to point out the old hardware.

Top of the line hardware and big numbers help sell phones. If it makes a difference in performance or not. Right or wrong, bragging helps. Pushing the limits on hardware is a big part of what got Samsung where they are today.

[darkehawke]

the average consumer does not give a monkeys about hardware specs. i used to think we needed better processors but then i spoke to my friends who are not tech minded. they do not care about how much ghz a device has. they dont know what ghz is, and they dont want to know.

the average consumer will care mainly about 3 things on a smartphone, apps, battery life, and speed of the internet. to me and you, specs will give you an idea of how the phone will do in regards to battery life and speed. but the average consumer just wants laymans terms. can it do it well, yes or no.

the other thing to remember about average consumer is they wont pay for something they dont need. they wont buy a 1.4ghz processor if they know a 1.2ghz processor is all they need.

bb will need cheap devices for bb10, if they dont have an entry level device that is affordable to the masses they may as well pack it in. entry level devices is what has helped rim increase their customer base. it is needed to introduce the average consumer to bb10.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9810 using Tapatalk

[Hawkeberry]

Exactly. So those who just want specs will go with Samsung anyway. Or the rumored insane 6" Sony with 3GB RAM. Cannot compete with those. iPhone 5 seems to do well with the "2011" hardware. So it will come down to how the user experience is. If it is smooth and runs all important apps, it doesn't matter what hardware it has. Let Samsung do what they do best.. Trying to make a mobile phone that runs Crysis

[JR A]

What I've realized is that it's not specs that get the masses to buy phones.

It's the sales rep in carrier stores/kiosks that do.

Us enthusiasts do our homework and make decisions for ourselves, but it's the masses that go in with a vague idea of what they want, and walk out with what sales rep sold them. I can't tell you how many times I've heard someone say they bought an iPhone because the rep told them it could do _______ or had ______, and in reality the person had to buy an accessory, third party product, or pay for an app of some sort for them to get what they really wanted.

Rep: "Yeah, my $600 iPhone takes stellar images, just look at these high quality pictures. This has a whopping 5 Mega Pixel camera. That means you can take REALLY high quality pictures with this phone because the more mega pixels the better your pictures will look!"

*shows pictures on computer/iPad screen*

Customer: "Wow! I'll take it"

*sale is completed*

Rep: "Oh yeah, I forgot to mention I paid about $60 for an aftermarket lens that fits on this case, and I had a spotlight providing ideal lighting, and I used X app that cost me $5 to make it look like that..."

[peter9477]

Specs are wonderful things which only techies really care about.

Real customers are going to be walking into the stores and saying "Where are the new BlackBerrys?" followed a short time later by "Wow, where do I sign?".

[d3ac0n]

Numbers numbers numbers...
Its not all about numbers buddy, some things are about optimisation and fine tuning.

How Apple of you... Unfortunately the Android spec race is infecting competing platforms

If RIM wants to see bb10 live and prosper it needs to offer choices from low end to high end

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2

[BB_Bmore]

Android is the Dump truck of Smartphones. It needs a big diesel engine to get from 0-80 were as BlackBerry10 is more like a Mercedes. Fine tuned and engineered like a work of art.

Why cram a HUGE diesel engine in a Mercedes when it doesn't need it? Android uses the hardware it does because it has too. Its anything but an efficient OS. The proof will be in the pudding. BlackBerry10 will launch and the OS will fly.

You can compare it anyway you want and "lol" at every other sentence you type but the fact remains that Qnx is anything but Android and operates much more efficiently therefore it would be foolish for RIM to "over do" the hardware.

Its not a spec race its an experience race. BlackBerry will deliver a better user experience and do it without the need of the latest and greatest chip set.

You see that as a fail? Common sense tells you different but some folks lack common sense and only see cores.

Sent from my BlackBerry by Choice using Tapatalk

[Bold_until_Hybrid_Comes]

Why? for once... I have to open GMAIL app for gmail, hotmail app for hotmail, and if I want to check my company's email I need to open another damn app. If you want to check SMS, open Messages App, then the same for facebook and any other app.
Blackberry get rids of the in and out paradigm, The main messaging apps are already there on your hub.

Multitasking and keyboard is way better than android. On android you dont get the type of text prediction you have on BB10. Swipe? Swiftkey? Those are not android, those are apps. and are not free.. I have samsung galaxy s3 and I hate the user experience. I dont even get Twitter notifications.... and If you claim that BB10 camera is already done by the galaxy note 2, well that is ****! I have a flagship phone from Samsung and I dont have it!.

Are you joking that on 4.2 you have to open individual email apps and messages to read all your notifications? Theres not even an option for universal inbox?

[mjs416]

I mean the BB10 devices will probably launch at $200-$300 with a new 2 year agreement. The Nexus 4 packs a quad core and 2gb of ram for $300 and no contract at all. Its very concerning. I'm not sure what RIM is going to do, but they need to figure out a way to make their BB10 devices dirt cheap for consumers or equip them with hardware that is competitive for the price.

Spec's alone dont make the phone. Its how the OS utilizes those resources.When you have a piece meal OS like Android - you need a quad core and gig's of RAM. iOS on the other hand does well with sub par spec's.

I find it funny that people judge phones, devices, computers on spec's alone and find it to be the determining factor in their world. You can have TB's of RAM and a 1 THz processor and your phone can still lag if the OS is crap.

[anon(257429)]

Spec's alone dont make the phone. Its how the OS utilizes those resources.When you have a piece meal OS like Android - you need a quad core and gig's of RAM. iOS on the other hand does well with sub par spec's.

I find it funny that people judge phones, devices, computers on spec's alone and find it to be the determining factor in their world. You can have TB's of RAM and a 1 THz processor and your phone can still lag if the OS is crap.

Have you ever used an Android phone? Vanilla Android is very well put together. Especially Jellybean. OEM are the ones who add their crap to it that makes it "piece meal". Let RIM open source their OS and lets see how customizing their OS goes for them.
The Iphone sub par specs imo, can be related to their core OS never changing since day one. Its design to do one thing at a time, and it only works on one phone. People forget that Google has only been in the OS game for 4.5 years vs RIM 11 plus years vs. Apples 30+ years.

Not taking sides but I am just saying.

[anon(257429)]

Are you joking that on 4.2 you have to open individual email apps and messages to read all your notifications? Theres not even an option for universal inbox?

For notifications no, to actually see those messages in one place yes you have to go to different apps. ... That's one thing I missed about BB. One inbox and notifications being rock solid. I would love to have a static message counter.

[mjs416]

Have you ever used an Android phone? Vanilla Android is very well put together. Especially Jellybean. OEM are the ones who add their crap to it that makes it "piece meal". Let RIM open source their OS and lets see how customizing their OS goes for them.

Open source? I doubt the company with the most secure OS is going to open source it. When was the last time a virus crashed a RIM device or OS? And yes I did own a Droid 2 for a short bit. Horrible battery life - constant crashes. I know that was ages ago in the cell phone world but I was just messing with my fathers Droid Maxx and it crashed twice on me. Bottom line is that spec's are irrelevant when the OS is unstable

The Iphone sub par specs imo, can be related to their core OS never changing since day one. Its design to do one thing at a time, and it only works on one phone. People forget that Google has only been in the OS game for 4.5 years vs RIM 11 plus years vs. Apples 30+ years.

Even if iOS is lame and hasnt changed in 5+ years - the point is the iOS is solid and stable despite not having nose bleed spec's (which was the point of your original post). My wife had her iphone 3GS for 3 years and never rebooted it. In fact - when I asked her the last time she re-booted she had no clue on even how to reboot it. I have always found BB OS to be more stable than Android yet not as stable as iOS. This will all change with QNX.

[Saiga]

Spec's alone dont make the phone. Its how the OS utilizes those resources.When you have a piece meal OS like Android - you need a quad core and gig's of RAM. iOS on the other hand does well with sub par spec's.

I find it funny that people judge phones, devices, computers on spec's alone and find it to be the determining factor in their world. You can have TB's of RAM and a 1 THz processor and your phone can still lag if the OS is crap.

And yet they do. That's my point! I personally have never once said that the experience on BlackBerry 10 wouldn't be good. NOT ONCE. I've also never said you have to have the best specs for a device to run good. All I have said is that the specs are outdated and they are. Reviewers, sales reps, tech savvy consumers will all see that the hardware is old and that will influence people's buying decisions. Right or wrong, specs do matter to people. Everything else equal, isn't better hardware always a good thing?

What I am concerned about is the older hardware can give a bad first impression. I have heard from people that went into a Verizon wireless store during the week that the 9930 launched and tried to buy one, only to hear "that phone has horrible hardware", "that phone is still using a single core while everyone else has moved to dual core", "that phone is so slow" or "why buy that when you can get this with much better hardware and more apps".

The 9930 was behind in hardware and people pointed it out. It was very well optimized and provided a great experience in my opinion, by far the best experience of any BlackBerry Smartphone launched to date. It also had an amazing unified inbox, the only problem is no one cared. People still didn't buy them. People still just thought of it as a old phone that sucked. A big part of that could have been because the initial impression was this phone has old hardware. BlackBerry devices wont sell by the user experience alone. People's opinions of BlackBerry is pretty horrible at the moment. I proved that for myself pretty well. RIM isn't Apple, the iPhone can sell because of it's hype and user experience. Everyone else is in a spec race though. Samsung is beating out Apple now. Samsung is in the spec race, and they are on track to sell a million phones per day for this year.

My fear is people wont even give BlackBerry 10 a fair chance simply because of its hardware. As a sales rep, which device would be easier to recommend to a potential customer - the $150 Samsung Galaxy S3 with a newly rebuilt and optimized OS, over 700,000 apps, and industry leading hardware? or the $200 - $300 BlackBerry 10 device that is "optimized"? That's my concern. The outdated hardware is a blemish on an otherwise great device. It is one thing that could cause buyers to be hesitant. Now how exactly would a quad-core processor and 2GB of ram hurt sales? It wouldn't, the user experience would only be improved with current hardware and people would be able to say "great hardware and great software". People keep proclaiming optimization is key, well why can't an OS be optimized using better hardware? One less reason for people not to buy a BlackBerry 10 device is a always a good thing in my opinion.

IF BlackBerry don't have it: I don't need it, it's stupid, that's a waste.
Once BlackBerry finally does get it: Wow this is the greatest thing ever, look at how cool my BlackBerry is!

[Roo Zilla]

If specs don't matter on BB10.... does that mean nobody should buy an Aristo? I mean, why bother right?

[Masahiro]

If specs don't matter on BB10.... does that mean nobody should buy an Aristo? I mean, why bother right?

We're talking about the futility of comparing the specs of phones from different platforms...

[lnichols]

Now how exactly would a quad-core processor and 2GB of ram hurt sales? It wouldn't, the user experience would only be improved with current hardware and people would be able to say "great hardware and great software". People keep proclaiming optimization is key, well why can't an OS be optimized using better hardware? One less reason for people not to buy a BlackBerry 10 device is a always a good thing in my opinion.

IF BlackBerry don't have it: I don't need it, it's stupid, that's a waste.
Once BlackBerry finally does get it: Wow this is the greatest thing ever, look at how cool my BlackBerry is!

It would also dramatically reduce RIM's profit margin on the sales of the phone, or cause the price of the device to skyrocket. LG charges $900 US for the quad core S4 based Optimus G phone in Korea, but in the US they are making basically nothing with the Nexus 4 trying to get a foothold on the US market at $499, and Google is subsidizing it more in the Play Store. The Galaxy Note 2 is the other Quad Core S4 phone out there and has a retail of $649 to $699. HTC is making basically nothing per phone in the spec race and their phone business is tanking. If RIM sales twice as many phone but make a quarter of what they used to per phone, then is that a good strategy?

Maybe you should reserve judgement on the phone until it is announced with the official specs and pricing. Right now all we have are leaked specs that may or may not be final. Here are the only things we know for sure: 4.2" 1280x768 screen, dual core CPU, 1800 mAH battery. We know that the Dev Alpha has an OMAP4470, but that doesn't mean with 100% certainty that the L will have it. RIM could throw in an OMAP5430 (Dual Core A15, Dual Core M4, MultiCore SGX544 GPU) and it will be 100% backwards compatible software wise with anything written for the OMAP 4470 ( I don't think it is likely, but it is still a possibility and the dual core 4470 is outperforming quad core Tegra 3 chips anyway). Maybe the Dev Alpha devices will be Curve grade devices and RIM used them to develop for to make sure the low end device would be capable of running the first round of apps. So many possibilities and yet so much "definitive" speculation.

[jenks5150]

I forget how clueless some people here can be about devices outside of BlackBerry. The Dev Alpha devices are low ended. The L-series is low end based on what its rumored specs are. So far every BlackBerry device that we know about is low end. They are just now catching up to the hardware that Android OEMs were using almost 2 years ago.

Android devices with BB10 like specs launch for $49 or free on contract these days. I'm talking about phones with a dual core snap dragon processor, 1gb of ram, front and rear cameras and 4G LTE connectivity. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking LG lucid, Samsung Galaxy Stellar, and the Pantech Maurader. All 3 of those phones are low end turds. Devices that I consider dumpster devices because there isn't anything special about them. But they all 3 offer what BB10 is rumored to be launching with. All 3 of them are free with a contract also and all 3 have access to a fully developed ecosystem with every app a consumer could want or need. Kinda makes me wonder how well RIM's low end devices with a high end device price will perform with all those cheaper options available.

I mean the BB10 devices will probably launch at $200-$300 with a new 2 year agreement. The Nexus 4 packs a quad core and 2gb of ram for $300 and no contract at all. Its very concerning. I'm not sure what RIM is going to do, but they need to figure out a way to make their BB10 devices dirt cheap for consumers or equip them with hardware that is competitive for the price.

You're forgetting that all of those phones run a $hitty OS. I have an S3 and all its claims to be super fast and no lag is a pretty huge farce. It locks up and has to reboot more than my 9900 did, and this is on Jelly Bean.

The iPhone is even worse off for specs than what you describe, yet you decided to take a shot at BlackBerry. The QNX RTOS does not require inflated Android specs to run way smoother than ICS or Jelly Bean. That's the whole point; Apple has proven that specs are not important, it's the experience.

So b!tch about specs all you want, it doesn't change the fact that the BB10 L-series will be a premium device with a polished, fluid, and UNIQUE experience - and all your 1080p Octa-core Android ph[ablets]ones will remain a dime a dozen. (PS the human eye can't tell the difference between 720p and 1080p from 10 inches away from your face...so good thing HTC and Samsung are spending money making 440 ppi screens....)

[jenks5150]

If specs don't matter on BB10.... does that mean nobody should buy an Aristo? I mean, why bother right?

The differentiating factor for that [rumored] device is the larger 4.65" screen and the 2,800 mAh battery.

Larger screen = requires larger battery capacity. Thus, the choice for the Aristo rests solely on whether or not you prefer a significantly larger screen.

[Saiga]

It would also dramatically reduce RIM's profit margin on the sales of the phone, or cause the price of the device to skyrocket. LG charges $900 US for the quad core S4 based Optimus G phone in Korea, but in the US they are making basically nothing with the Nexus 4 trying to get a foothold on the US market at $499, and Google is subsidizing it more in the Play Store. The Galaxy Note 2 is the other Quad Core S4 phone out there and has a retail of $649 to $699. HTC is making basically nothing per phone in the spec race and their phone business is tanking. If RIM sales twice as many phone but make a quarter of what they used to per phone, then is that a good strategy?

A lot of great points here.

There is no easy answer for RIM, that is why they are in the position they are in now. RIM simply isn't able to compete with the Android OEMs like Samsung or LG. RIM wants to keep high margins, but that hasn't been working out for them lately. Which is really unfortunate. The off-contract price for a new BlackBerry smartphone is already ridiculously high when all things are considered. My BlackBerry Bold 9930 will cost you $509 off contract. Prices are less from other sources, but at launch, it was $500 + or nothing. That kinda makes the Note 2 seem cheap in comparison. And RIM's price is high with them still getting a stream of revenue each month off of BIS or BES from the device. Meanwhile, devices like the Galaxy Stellar, which has nearly Dev Alpha level hardware in every category except screen resolution and isn't subsidized at all, was only $300 off contract on launch day. And that's from Samsung, who doesn't have a reacquiring revenue stream coming in from each activated device like RIM does. RIM needs to find a way to become competitive again. Cause the high end price for a low end device doesn't work any more. If a 9930 costs $509 what will an Aristo cost off contract?