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08-17-19 05:58 AM
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  1. chain13's Avatar

    Blackberry charged a monthly access fee for secure syncing of corporate email, calendar, contacts, notes and tasks, combined with BlackBerry Messenger. The entire design focus of their OS was supporting those core functions, because that's what they were paid to do.
    And that services isn't available in android. Poor android. Oh wait, it's available on android..

    IOS and android are also capable of syncing mail, calendar, contacts, notes, tasks. And you're also free to choose what (the most secure) services to sync them.
    Last edited by chain13; 05-30-19 at 03:36 AM.
    05-29-19 11:34 PM
  2. chain13's Avatar
    It shouldn't be controversial or a surprise that companies try to encourage the behavior that pays the most. That's my whole point.
    Wait, what???
    05-30-19 01:23 AM
  3. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    And that services isn't available in android. Poor android. Oh wait, it's available on android..

    IOS and android are also capable of syncing mail, calendar, contacts, notes, tasks. And you're also free to choose what (the most secure) services to sync them.
    Of course those features are available, and they're "free," but they are not as well implemented on either system in terms of design and efficiency. Neither Apple nor Android out much focus on them because they don't bring in billions of dollars like they did for RIM. That's why the Android Hub is a poor imitation of the BB10 Hub.

    I understand that you don't perceive any problems with the options on Android, but I doubt your use case resembles mine.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    chain13 likes this.
    05-30-19 06:18 AM
  4. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Wait, what???
    What part don't you understand?

    Apple designs everything in iOS to lock customers into their ecosystem, encourage use of iCloud, and promote downloading through iTunes and the Apple Store. That's what they are paid to incent their users to do.

    Android designers focus on promoting use of paid Android services and personal data collection, because that's how Google gets paid.

    When it was relevant, RIM put all of its design efforts into perfecting corporate communications and work flow because that's what they were paid billions to do.

    RIM was better at email, calendar, contacts, tasks and notes than Android or iOS are because of the economic incentives. That's how business works.

    If Apple, Android (or any Android app developers such as BlackBerry Limited could make billions of dollars by improving email, I'm sure it would be better on Android and iOS than it is on legacy BlackBerry devices, but the money and development just aren't there. Email is seen as a necessary expense, but it's basically a free loss leader, and no one is getting paid to make it better.

    Most users of today's phones find that the email solutions are "good enough" for their needs, and they won't pay for incremental improvements, so there's minimal investment.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Troy Tiscareno likes this.
    05-30-19 06:31 AM
  5. chain13's Avatar

    I understand that you don't perceive any problems with the options on Android, but I doubt your use case resembles mine.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Yes I don't. And on every kind of device I encounter, I do think that I wouldn't perceive any problems for mails & synsc. There's just some use cases I couldn't understand (or even imagine) about using hardcore email on phone that can't even tolerate a missed of cc & bcc on the frontpage..
    05-30-19 06:49 AM
  6. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Yes I don't. And on every kind of device I encounter, I do think that I wouldn't perceive any problems for mails & synsc. There's just some use cases I couldn't understand (or even imagine) about using hardcore email on phone that can't even tolerate a missed of cc & bcc on the frontpage..
    Here's a common corporate scenario. Person A sends an email to 3 people and CCs 5 others, with a BCC to a senior manager who has asked to be kept in the loop. The senior manager doesn't notice the BCC and innocently forwards the email to one of the original recipients to say, "Great job!"

    The recipient sees that the senior manager had been BCC'd on the original email and now worries that person A is secretly copying the manager on all correspondence for the project. This rumor spreads, and the team's trust in person A begins to erode. The project and person A's performance and career prospects are significantly impacted.

    The average senior manager in a large company receives hundreds of emails a day. Situational awareness of everyone who has been CC'd or BCC'd enables better decision making about communications with the team.

    I understand that this isn't critical to you. But it certainly is to me. A manager who makes more than one mistake of the type described above would not be eligible for promotion in any of the Fortune 1000 companies I've worked with.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    05-30-19 07:15 AM
  7. chain13's Avatar
    Here's a common corporate scenario. Person A sends an email to 3 people and CCs 5 others, with a BCC to a senior manager who has asked to be kept in the loop. The senior manager doesn't notice the BCC and innocently forwards the email to one of the original recipients to say, "Great job!"

    The recipient sees that the senior manager had been BCC'd on the original email and now worries that person A is secretly copying the manager on all correspondence for the project. This rumor spreads, and the team's trust in person A begins to erode. The project and person A's performance and career prospects are significantly impacted.

    The average senior manager in a large company receives hundreds of emails a day. Situational awareness of everyone who has been CC'd or BCC'd enables better decision making about communications with the team.

    I understand that this isn't critical to you. But it certainly is to me. A manager who makes more than one mistake of the type described above would not be eligible for promotion in any of the Fortune 1000 companies I've worked with.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    No, you get my points wrong. I mean missed cc & bcc was, it's not showed direct ahead on the mail body. Like in gmail, when you make a new mail, it only shows the recipients (To on the top for simple and clean interface. But in hub it's expanded as recipients (To, CC, and BCC direct ahead.
    05-30-19 07:24 AM
  8. chain13's Avatar
    Here's a common corporate scenario. Person A sends an email to 3 people and CCs 5 others, with a BCC to a senior manager who has asked to be kept in the loop. The senior manager doesn't notice the BCC and innocently forwards the email to one of the original recipients to say, "Great job!"

    The recipient sees that the senior manager had been BCC'd on the original email and now worries that person A is secretly copying the manager on all correspondence for the project. This rumor spreads, and the team's trust in person A begins to erode. The project and person A's performance and career prospects are significantly impacted.

    The average senior manager in a large company receives hundreds of emails a day. Situational awareness of everyone who has been CC'd or BCC'd enables better decision making about communications with the team.

    I understand that this isn't critical to you. But it certainly is to me. A manager who makes more than one mistake of the type described above would not be eligible for promotion in any of the Fortune 1000 companies I've worked with.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    And, what phone does the most critical mails?
    I believe your fortune 1000 clients typing theirs on an iphone.. LOL just kidding
    05-30-19 07:28 AM
  9. Platinum_2's Avatar
    Here's a common corporate scenario. Person A sends an email to 3 people and CCs 5 others, with a BCC to a senior manager who has asked to be kept in the loop. The senior manager doesn't notice the BCC and innocently forwards the email to one of the original recipients to say, "Great job!"

    The recipient sees that the senior manager had been BCC'd on the original email and now worries that person A is secretly copying the manager on all correspondence for the project. This rumor spreads, and the team's trust in person A begins to erode. The project and person A's performance and career prospects are significantly impacted.

    The average senior manager in a large company receives hundreds of emails a day. Situational awareness of everyone who has been CC'd or BCC'd enables better decision making about communications with the team.

    I understand that this isn't critical to you. But it certainly is to me. A manager who makes more than one mistake of the type described above would not be eligible for promotion in any of the Fortune 1000 companies I've worked with.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    This is just poor communication implementation, and not using email features correctly. BlackBerry may help YOU prevent making communication mistakes, but not those around you, necessarily. Bcc is the wrong feature to use in the given scenario. You simply need to forward the completed conversation to the senior manager and be done with it. That way, if he/she replies, it comes only to you. Game over.

    Or, find a new place to work. Sounds like everyone's career ends with the discovery of a Bcc recipient. I can only imagine what happens if you leave your tuna fish sandwich in the breakroom fridge for a week....
    Mecca EL likes this.
    05-30-19 09:33 AM
  10. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    This is just poor communication implementation, and not using email features correctly. BlackBerry may help YOU prevent making communication mistakes, but not those around you, necessarily. Bcc is the wrong feature to use in the given scenario. You simply need to forward the completed conversation to the senior manager and be done with it. That way, if he/she replies, it comes only to you. Game over.

    Or, find a new place to work. Sounds like everyone's career ends with the discovery of a Bcc recipient. I can only imagine what happens if you leave your tuna fish sandwich in the breakroom fridge for a week....
    LOL. I agree that, for the simple example I gave, forwarding the email with a comment is preferable. But, at a senior level, where there is a lot of complex, semi-secret information speeding around (mergers and acquisitions, rapid growth and promotions, private equity conversations, etc.) A core competency of an executive is political savvy and situational awareness.

    I've been working with startup and rapid growth companies since email emerged as the prime formal communications channel for business in the mid 1990s, and I firmly believe that transparency of the entire email chain history, including open viewing of every To, From, CC, and BCC is far more important than format controls in an email platform. But today, most mobile platforms hide that information but allow you to underline text directly. It's form over function, and it reflects the fact that today's smart phone user is a general consumer whose career doesn't depend on high-volume formal written business communications.
    05-30-19 10:10 AM
  11. Platinum_2's Avatar
    LOL. I agree that, for the simple example I gave, forwarding the email with a comment is preferable. But, at a senior level, where there is a lot of complex, semi-secret information speeding around (mergers and acquisitions, rapid growth and promotions, private equity conversations, etc.) A core competency of an executive is political savvy and situational awareness.

    I've been working with startup and rapid growth companies since email emerged as the prime formal communications channel for business in the mid 1990s, and I firmly believe that transparency of the entire email chain history, including open viewing of every To, From, CC, and BCC is far more important than format controls in an email platform. But today, most mobile platforms hide that information but allow you to underline text directly. It's form over function, and it reflects the fact that today's smart phone user is a general consumer whose career doesn't depend on high-volume formal written business communications.
    I would make the case that such sensitive conversations should not occur via email. It is the wrong technology tool in that instance. Either a closed door meeting or a secure video conference would be two examples of a better approach.
    05-30-19 11:23 AM
  12. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I would make the case that such sensitive conversations should not occur via email. It is the wrong technology tool in that instance. Either a closed door meeting or a secure video conference would be two examples of a better approach.
    I disagree. Email is the exact right tool for these communications which are detailed, formal and time-sensiive. For example, during an acquisition, 20-50 analysts and executives might have 7-14 days to examine thousands of contracts, operational and financial reports. Everyone is wearing multiple hats, plus continuing to manage their teams for normal work. It would not be physically possible to get all the right people into dozens of secure conference calls a day, especially since many of them already have 4-6 hours of calls and meetings scheduled. Plus, all of those meetings would still need the same volume of emails to the same people to share the relevant data and other documents being discussed.

    The whole point of email, versus chat like Teams and Slack, is that it's formal and secure. It's very appropriate for getting lots of confidential, time-sensiive work done.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    05-30-19 01:14 PM
  13. chain13's Avatar
    But today, most mobile platforms hide that information but allow you to underline text directly. It's form over function, and it reflects the fact that today's smart phone user is a general consumer whose career doesn't depend on high-volume formal written business communications.
    It's not form over function, the feature isn't removed. It's there, just hiding, it will appear in one tap away.
    05-31-19 03:05 AM
  14. chain13's Avatar
    I disagree. Email is the exact right tool for these communications which are detailed, formal and time-sensiive. For example, during an acquisition, 20-50 analysts and executives might have 7-14 days to examine thousands of contracts, operational and financial reports.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    And are you finish that on phone?
    05-31-19 03:32 AM
  15. littlebuff's Avatar
    Led notification is a great thing that BlackBerry users enjoy. Haven't try to find a LED app for the K1 yet and am using what comes with the phone. Still a great feature. And boys, the LED on the BBOS days!
    05-31-19 06:55 AM
  16. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    And are you finish that on phone?
    Most of the time executives are emailing their teams while sitting in live meetings or conference calls war room style. Phones are used for email while PCs are being used for the Web conferences.

    For fifteen years I have been able to use my mobile phone as my primary email client. I rarely even fire up email on my PC because when I'm at my desk I'm doing other work. I get all my email done between meetings and during my travel/commute via phone.

    The reason that old school BlackBerrys were so addictive to executives is that we could keep up with high volume written communication when away from our desks. When you supervise a team of hundreds or thousands of people in a dynamic environment, the volume and urgency of communications can be very intense.

    This is not the world most people inhabit, which is why it never became a mainstream market, and many people who do have these requirements also like having an all-purpose device and are willing to make the minor sacrifices in email efficiency associated with using an iPhone (preferred by most executives) or an Android. More importantly, these days there are many professional apps, including custom ones, that require iOS or Android.

    The point is not that there is a market for a legacy device (People can argue if a properly marketed alternative to iOS or Android would succeed.) or that people who choose Apple or Android are "wrong" to do so. But it's simply incorrect to state that, feature for feature, iOS and Android are equal or superior to legacy BlackBerry OSes (BBID and BB10) for high intensity, complex email communications. They are different, offering some advantages (certainly on cost!) but they have some drawbacks for niche use cases as well.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    05-31-19 08:43 AM
  17. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Most of the time executives are emailing their teams while sitting in live meetings or conference calls war room style. Phones are used for email while PCs are being used for the Web conferences.

    For fifteen years I have been able to use my mobile phone as my primary email client. I rarely even fire up email on my PC because when I'm at my desk I'm doing other work. I get all my email done between meetings and during my travel/commute via phone.

    The reason that old school BlackBerrys were so addictive to executives is that we could keep up with high volume written communication when away from our desks. When you supervise a team of hundreds or thousands of people in a dynamic environment, the volume and urgency of communications can be very intense.

    This is not the world most people inhabit, which is why it never became a mainstream market, and many people who do have these requirements also like having an all-purpose device and are willing to make the minor sacrifices in email efficiency associated with using an iPhone (preferred by most executives) or an Android. More importantly, these days there are many professional apps, including custom ones, that require iOS or Android.

    The point is not that there is a market for a legacy device (People can argue if a properly marketed alternative to iOS or Android would succeed.) or that people who choose Apple or Android are "wrong" to do so. But it's simply incorrect to state that, feature for feature, iOS and Android are equal or superior to legacy BlackBerry OSes (BBID and BB10) for high intensity, complex email communications. They are different, offering some advantages (certainly on cost!) but they have some drawbacks for niche use cases as well.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    If all you had to do was e-mail, I'd argue that BBOS was even the more superior client to use for it's features and integrations.
    05-31-19 08:51 AM
  18. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    If all you had to do was e-mail, I'd argue that BBOS was even the more superior client to use for it's features and integrations.
    I agree with that, with two caveats. 1) I used to break two scroll wheels a year and developed awful thumb tendinitis. 2) BB10 is much better for managing multiple email accounts on different domains due to the design and interface of the Hub.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    05-31-19 08:58 AM
  19. the_boon's Avatar
    It's not form over function, the feature isn't removed. It's there, just hiding, it will appear in one tap away.
    When almost all smartphones are gigantic heavy slabs with curved displays and glass backs, how could you say that it's NOT form over function?

    A good example of someone doing the external design right is the Priv, because still today it has the grippiest back I've ever held, you could almost hold it at a 90 degree angle and it wont fall.
    However, that same phone also has a curved display, which sucks and ruins an otherwise fairly rugged phone (especially for a slider).

    Also, there's the RED Hydrogen phone, with rubber back and finger grooves.
    It may not look all nice and shiny, but it's pretty damn practical and looks like it offers great grip.
    05-31-19 10:00 AM
  20. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    When almost all smartphones are gigantic heavy slabs with curved displays and glass backs, how could you say that it's NOT form over function?

    A good example of someone doing the external design right is the Priv, because still today it has the grippiest back I've ever held, you could almost hold it at a 90 degree angle and it wont fall.
    However, that same phone also has a curved display, which sucks and ruins an otherwise fairly rugged phone (especially for a slider).

    Also, there's the RED Hydrogen phone, with rubber back and finger grooves.
    It may not look all nice and shiny, but it's pretty damn practical and looks like it offers great grip.
    You complain about gigantic heavy slabs in the beginning of this post only to end it by using a slab that weighs in at 263grams to try prove your point about practicality.

    Wow.

    So practical that it’s bigger and much heavier than an iPhone Plus model or OnePlus.




    Boon bro, what have you been smoking? This slab hate got you wildin’.
    06-01-19 07:43 AM
  21. thurask's Avatar
    Also, there's the RED Hydrogen phone, with rubber back and finger grooves.
    It may not look all nice and shiny, but it's pretty damn practical and looks like it offers great grip.
    The RED Hydrogen is the opposite of practical.
    Tsepz_GP and Dunt Dunt Dunt like this.
    06-01-19 08:42 AM
  22. chain13's Avatar
    When almost all smartphones are gigantic heavy slabs with curved displays and glass backs, how could you say that it's NOT form over function?

    A good example of someone doing the external design right is the Priv, because still today it has the grippiest back I've ever held, you could almost hold it at a 90 degree angle and it wont fall.
    However, that same phone also has a curved display, which sucks and ruins an otherwise fairly rugged phone (especially for a slider).

    Also, there's the RED Hydrogen phone, with rubber back and finger grooves.
    It may not look all nice and shiny, but it's pretty damn practical and looks like it offers great grip.
    Come on, I know you're not paying attention and just waiting to strike the slabs back. I was discussing different "form over function" with bb10adopter, it's about some mail apps that hide cc/bcc form and some other apps that show it uphead.

    It's not the curved display that makes the priv sucks. Its software optimization and internal hardware design did (overheat cough cough). And also, there are many bigger slabs lighter than the priv, so complaining about weight is stupid. My last point was whatever notch or material OEMs had put on their slabs, they don't remove any functions out of it. But it's fine, I dont expect you to understand. Since you value a phone only by its grip, or led, or cheap plastic keyboard on it.
    06-01-19 08:57 AM
  23. chain13's Avatar
    You complain about gigantic heavy slabs in the beginning of this post only to end it by using a slab that weighs in at 263grams to try prove your point about practicality.

    Wow.

    So practical that it’s bigger and much heavier than an iPhone Plus model or OnePlus.

    [IMG=780x392]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190601/ca28abf4ff4082cfd9da2e910667097f.jpg[/url]


    Boon bro, what have you been smoking? This slab hate got you wildin’.
    He has been outdosing crackberrian pills
    Tsepz_GP and the_boon like this.
    06-01-19 09:01 AM
  24. TgeekB's Avatar
    When you have to list “it works” under Pros in order to find something good about it, you’re in trouble.
    06-01-19 09:25 AM
  25. chain13's Avatar
    iOS and Android are equal or superior to legacy BlackBerry OSes (BBID and BB10) for high intensity, complex email communications. They are different, offering some advantages (certainly on cost!) but they have some drawbacks for niche use cases as well.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    That's it, this is what I've been wondering when I discuss with you. In What use case (you've ever encounter) when android or iOS falls/has drawbacks?
    06-01-19 09:33 AM
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