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08-17-19 05:58 AM
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  1. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I remember when FAXES were the real way to communicate... email will never last.
    Because of HIPAA, many healthcare facilities would and still fax documents instead of paying for secured e-mail. I laugh because I think of all the places using cheap unsecured electronic fax accounts that funnel unsecured into e-mail.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    05-29-19 08:47 AM
  2. chain13's Avatar
    Remember, email is the feature neither Apple or Google want you to use on your phone, because it doesn't make them money when you write and read correspondence. They only want us consuming apps and media.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    What email you're talking about?
    Google use email as epicentre of all their services, integrated. But if you mean the android inability to do email efficiently (based on your need), there are plenty of 3rd party mail apps in the playstore (blackberry hub included). And the same goes for apple(iOS), and also Blackberry. They want you to use email, because it makes them money.. cough cough subscription..
    05-29-19 10:23 AM
  3. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    What email you're talking about?
    Google use email as epicentre of all their services, integrated. But if you mean the android inability to do email efficiently (based on your need), there are plenty of 3rd party mail apps in the playstore (blackberry hub included). And the same goes for apple(iOS), and also Blackberry. They want you to use email, because it makes them money.. cough cough subscription..
    Google and Apple offer email services as a huge loss leader. They make no money from that service. Most of Google'a Android revenue comes from advertising and the Play Store. Most of Apple's comes from hardware sales, I Cloud subscriptions, iTunes and the Apple store.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    05-29-19 10:43 AM
  4. Thud Hardsmack's Avatar
    Who says consumers don't want em? Who? Did manufacturers make surveys for all handsets and ask what feature consumers really didn't want and they all answered "we hate that LED!" ??
    It's something OEMs are willing to give up for the privilege of removing any and all bezels. Style over substance.
    I recall many a scene from yesteryear when BlackBerry owners didn't want to be notified they'd silence all notifications and put their phones face down so they didn't have to see the LED. I'm fairly certain most of those are Apple and Android owners that aren't using the LED, and contributed to its steady demise, as non-usage precedes 2017's shift to slim and none for bezels.
    05-29-19 11:04 AM
  5. Thud Hardsmack's Avatar
    Google and Apple offer email services as a huge loss leader. They make no money from that service. Most of Google'a Android revenue comes from advertising and the Play Store. Most of Apple's comes from hardware sales, I Cloud subscriptions, iTunes and the Apple store.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Google's ad services include Gmail.
    05-29-19 11:08 AM
  6. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Google's ad services include Gmail.
    Yes, but Gmail is the bait to attract users. It's a loss leader.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    05-29-19 01:08 PM
  7. the_boon's Avatar
    Sounds like you don't deserve future tech LOL.

    Too many complain. Anybody with narrow minded better stay with feature phone with all (what what they call) substantial hardware (toolbelt, trackball, trackpad, led, set of buttons etc etc). LOL
    I wouldn't go as far as wishing or asking for trackpad (and definitely not trackball, those were terrible). I wouldn't go with a feature phone because I need a smartphone.
    Why should real buttons only exist on feature phones?

    Anyway, I wouldn't call myself 100% narrow minded about the innovations we see today, but not having a PKB is not something I want to have to deal with.

    From a practical standpoint, I'd take grippy back like the Priv and LED over glass back and AOD.
    Even better would be like the RED hydrogen phone, you can tell it's made so that you don't drop it.

    Some of the modern smartphone innovations are nice (IP rating, wireless charging, less bezels, AMOLED, bigger batteries and better optimization) and some are just ridiculous (glass backs, notches, hole punches, curved displays, no LED
    05-29-19 01:35 PM
  8. the_boon's Avatar
    Yes.
    I just can't comprehend how people keep getting excited and prepare their wallets, slab after slab after slab.

    Is something wrong with me?

    I was excited about mobile tech up until around 2017 when things really started to look too similar with very little distinction from one another.
    05-29-19 01:58 PM
  9. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Anyway, I wouldn't call myself 100% narrow minded about the innovations we see today, but not having a PKB is not something I want to have to deal with.
    It's only narrow minded if you believe that the rest of the market is wrong and only you are right.

    I hope that some manufacture can add a PKB to their line up. I just don't think BBMo's business model is going to work... volume is too low to support what they and BlackBerry are trying to do.

    But a Moto G7KEY for $350... I think you would see sales exceed what BBMo has managed (if it got full carrier support in all of Moto's markets). But I don't expect that PKB to be anything but a sub 1% design.

    BBMo goes away, give it a year, and someone will probable give it a try... maybe.
    05-29-19 02:10 PM
  10. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I just can't comprehend how people keep getting excited and prepare their wallets, slab after slab after slab.

    Is something wrong with me?

    I was excited about mobile tech up until around 2017 when things really started to look too similar with very little distinction from one another.
    You're not wrong. Mobile tech innovation has become like TV innovations. Lots of silly junk no one really needs to sell more devices that all basically work the same.

    Mobile has changed many people's lives, especially those who previously didn't have regular access to computers or the Internet. That's still a big deal for a lot of people.

    For me, who has been using computers since before DOS and the Internet before there were browsers or HTTP, it does seem like most of the important innovations are behind us. Now we have digital fashion and shiny trinkets but not much that is game changing. Notch, no notch, folding screens? Who the F cares?

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    05-29-19 03:04 PM
  11. the_boon's Avatar
    It's only narrow minded if you believe that the rest of the market is wrong and only you are right.

    I hope that some manufacture can add a PKB to their line up. I just don't think BBMo's business model is going to work... volume is too low to support what they and BlackBerry are trying to do.

    But a Moto G7KEY for $350... I think you would see sales exceed what BBMo has managed (if it got full carrier support in all of Moto's markets). But I don't expect that PKB to be anything but a sub 1% design.

    BBMo goes away, give it a year, and someone will probable give it a try... maybe.
    I see what you mean.

    Basically, you're saying there's a possibility that it could be too expensive for BBMo to keep the factories running for just the KEY line which are low volume, but for another OEM who's churning out slabs all year long in large batches, they could afford to make a bit of space for one PKB model once in a while.
    05-29-19 03:07 PM
  12. conite's Avatar
    I see what you mean.

    Basically, you're saying there's a possibility that it could be too expensive for BBMo to keep the factories running for just the KEY line which are low volume, but for another OEM who's churning out slabs all year long in large batches, they could afford to make a bit of space for one PKB model once in a while.
    You mean like TCL?
    05-29-19 03:21 PM
  13. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    And now you have one extra device to charge every day, just to be able to get your notifications without looking at the phone.

    None of these "replacements" convince me that they're better than a simple and well implemented LED. None.

    Who says consumers don't want em? Who? Did manufacturers make surveys for all handsets and ask what feature consumers really didn't want and they all answered "we hate that LED!" ??
    Lol, clearly you have never used a smart watch. I charge it once every two weeks bud, it uses Low Energy Bluetooth and has Fast Charging, I plug it in for like 20-30minutes when it’s running low.

    In terms of LED, well if they really mattered that much to people they would have flocked to devices with them.
    05-29-19 03:28 PM
  14. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    In terms of LED, well if they really mattered that much to people they would have flocked to devices with them.
    Today's smartphone users love their spammy notifications, so it makes sense they don't value the LED.

    Back when 100% of notifications were work-related, the LED meant that users didn't have to pick up their phone constantly in meetings, or check emails from anyone but your boss after hours. The goal was to look at the screen only when necessary.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    05-29-19 03:38 PM
  15. joeldf's Avatar
    Lol, clearly you have never used a smart watch. I charge it once every two weeks bud, it uses Low Energy Bluetooth and has Fast Charging, I plug it in for like 20-30minutes when it’s running low.

    In terms of LED, well if they really mattered that much to people they would have flocked to devices with them.
    All the watches I had never needed "charging" but only needed its battery replaced once every two, sometimes three, years... bud...

    But, I get what you're saying.

    Still like my Disney Mickey watch, though.
    05-29-19 03:41 PM
  16. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    All the watches I had never needed "charging" but only needed its battery replaced once every two, sometimes three, years... bud...

    But, I get what you're saying.

    Still like my Disney Mickey watch, though.
    Haha! Indeed good ol analog.

    I’m loving having a smart watch, my phone stays in my pocket when in meetings and when out at restaurants etc.... all I do is glimpse at the Watch and know that has come in and decide if I want to check the full Email, iMessage, WhatsApp or Tapatalk reply etc... it’s great.
    Last edited by Tsepz_GP; 05-29-19 at 03:55 PM.
    eshropshire and Mecca EL like this.
    05-29-19 03:44 PM
  17. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I see what you mean.

    Basically, you're saying there's a possibility that it could be too expensive for BBMo to keep the factories running for just the KEY line which are low volume, but for another OEM who's churning out slabs all year long in large batches, they could afford to make a bit of space for one PKB model once in a while.
    I think the volume is too low for BBMo exist as a separate division - but then I'm not sure if there is a BBMo or just a few people that have multiple positions at TCL.

    But it's less about TCL production lines and more about the development and support cost that TCL and more importantly BlackBerry Ltd. has. Clearly BB Ltd has started cutting cost in their Mobility Division... maybe to get to a point where the program is viable?

    I kinda question YoY sales in 2019...
    05-29-19 03:45 PM
  18. Thud Hardsmack's Avatar
    Yes, but Gmail is the bait to attract users. It's a loss leader.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Are we not considering everyone with a Gmail address is having all emails scanned for data with which to present not just ads but to add to the Assistant experience if they using it? Think about every single sign up and correspondence going through Gmail - Google scrolls all of it. It's not a loss leader, it's an underpinning.
    05-29-19 04:00 PM
  19. Thud Hardsmack's Avatar
    I just can't comprehend how people keep getting excited and prepare their wallets, slab after slab after slab.

    Is something wrong with me?

    I was excited about mobile tech up until around 2017 when things really started to look too similar with very little distinction from one another.
    Nothing wrong with you, other than merely being unwilling to look at what people are upgrading from and to - most people aren't buying next year's model or the latest and greatest, they're upgrading a device that's averaging two or three years of age. It's only us techies, and not all techies, that upgrade every time there's a new release. And that's only exciting to a few.
    pdr733 likes this.
    05-29-19 04:09 PM
  20. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Are we not considering everyone with a Gmail address is having all emails scanned for data with which to present not just ads but to add to the Assistant experience if they using it? Think about every single sign up and correspondence going through Gmail - Google scrolls all of it. It's not a loss leader, it's an underpinning.
    Gmail, yes. Email in Android, no. If I'm a corporate user using a company email account, Google doesn't benefit from my using it in Android. But Google knows it has to support other email services. That's a loss leader.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    05-29-19 05:23 PM
  21. chain13's Avatar
    Google and Apple offer email services as a huge loss leader. They make no money from that service. Most of Google'a Android revenue comes from advertising and the Play Store. Most of Apple's comes from hardware sales, I Cloud subscriptions, iTunes and the Apple store.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    I still don't get your denial towards google. You have to differ between email apps and gmail as email app or mail service.

    If its because gmail as service or gmail as email app? As a service gmail is filled with offers and distractions. But if you hate it, you're free to not use it at all.

    If you hate gmail as a mail app, there are plenty of good email apps in playstore (including gmail app, and hub) that will absolutely work on any android device and maybe would suit your need. And as a user I don't really care (we shouldn't care) if those apps would make google profit/revenue or not. It's just app, just use what suit you the most, it's always available there.
    05-29-19 10:11 PM
  22. chain13's Avatar
    Lol, clearly you have never used a smart watch. I charge it once every two weeks bud, it uses Low Energy Bluetooth and has Fast Charging, I plug it in for like 20-30minutes when it’s running low.

    In terms of LED, well if they really mattered that much to people they would have flocked to devices with them.
    His key2 has bluetooth problem built-in, of course he doesn't use one.

    I wouldn't go as far as wishing or asking for trackpad (and definitely not trackball, those were terrible). I wouldn't go with a feature phone because I need a smartphone.
    Why should real buttons only exist on feature phones?

    Anyway, I wouldn't call myself 100% narrow minded about the innovations we see today, but not having a PKB is not something I want to have to deal with.

    From a practical standpoint, I'd take grippy back like the Priv and LED over glass back and AOD.
    Even better would be like the RED hydrogen phone, you can tell it's made so that you don't drop it.

    Some of the modern smartphone innovations are nice (IP rating, wireless charging, less bezels, AMOLED, bigger batteries and better optimization) and some are just ridiculous (glass backs, notches, hole punches, curved displays, no LED
    Yeah I get that, but did slabs do something bad to you recently? Because from my standpoint your denial is beyond help. None of those notches slabs remove proximity, front camera, top speaker, or any sensors that available in the last models without notch. None of those less chin bezels remove good bottom speaker, type C connector, or even headphone jack. Glassback is adopted for wireless charging, and some of manufacturers put gorilla glass to prevent it breaks easily. And LED is replaced by AOD.

    It keeps both style and substance in more modern design. And there are plenty of options to choose from. I wouldn't respond to you if you simply say you prefer blackberry because its brand, because from my perspective, fanboy is your all.
    Mecca EL likes this.
    05-29-19 10:35 PM
  23. the_boon's Avatar

    Yeah I get that, but did slabs do something bad to you recently?
    There's too many of them and they all look the same, now more than ever.

    Glassback is adopted for wireless charging
    Lmao, this again? It amazes me how many people think a phone NEEDS to have a glass back in order to be able to charge wirelessly.
    AT&T Classic, AT&T Passport, and all US Privs all have rubber/plastic backs AND wireless charging.
    So... there goes the excuse for glass.

    It keeps both style and substance in more modern design. And there are plenty of options to choose from.
    Nah, just style.
    Curved screens aren't practical in the slightest, and neither are glass backs, for obvious reasons.
    I don't even know why slab manufacturers even both putting out different color options when the consumers are clearly gonna slap a case on these expensive fragile glass phones as soon as they unbox them.
    Yeah, I know, they can use a clear gel case, but those turn to ugly yellow after about two months
    05-29-19 11:04 PM
  24. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I still don't get your denial towards google. You have to differ between email apps and gmail as email app or mail service.

    If its because gmail as service or gmail as email app? As a service gmail is filled with offers and distractions. But if you hate it, you're free to not use it at all.

    If you hate gmail as a mail app, there are plenty of good email apps in playstore (including gmail app, and hub) that will absolutely work on any android device and maybe would suit your need. And as a user I don't really care (we shouldn't care) if those apps would make google profit/revenue or not. It's just app, just use what suit you the most, it's always available there.
    The point of my post wasn't about Gmail as a service or as an app. It was a comparison between the design objectives of Android and iOS and how they are fundamentally different than classic BlackBerry because their business models are completely different.

    Blackberry charged a monthly access fee for secure syncing of corporate email, calendar, contacts, notes and tasks, combined with BlackBerry Messenger. The entire design focus of their OS was supporting those core functions, because that's what they were paid to do.

    Apple's business models based on selling hardware, cloud storage, and apps/content via iTunes and the Apple Store. So their design goals are locking in users to their hardware platform and ecosystem and encouraging them to download media and apps, and pay for cloud storage.

    Google's business model is based on data mining to support their ad business and selling media and apps through their online stores.

    So, for a user like me, who primarily cares about classic corporate services that BBOS provided for a decade it's not at all surprising that Android and iOS are less appealing, because they don't care about prioritizing those services in their design, since it's not what they are getting paid for.

    I continue to use a BB10 device as my main mobile phone, even though I have a KEYone with me, because it better supports the tasks I perform, requiring fewer gestures, injecting fewer distractions (There isn't a single email app in the Play Store as clean or simple as BlackBerry's in BBOS or BB10.), and displaying more relevant information (such as CC and BCC lists).

    It shouldn't be controversial or a surprise that companies try to encourage the behavior that pays the most. That's my whole point.
    the_boon likes this.
    05-29-19 11:26 PM
  25. chain13's Avatar
    There's too many of them and they all look the same, now more than ever.


    Lmao, this again? It amazes me how many people think a phone NEEDS to have a glass back in order to be able to charge wirelessly.
    AT&T Classic, AT&T Passport, and all US Privs all have rubber/plastic backs AND wireless charging.
    So... there goes the excuse for glass.


    Nah, just style.
    Curved screens aren't practical in the slightest, and neither are glass backs, for obvious reasons.
    I don't even know why slab manufacturers even both putting out different color options when the consumers are clearly gonna slap a case on these expensive fragile glass phones as soon as they unbox them.
    Yeah, I know, they can use a clear gel case, but those turn to ugly yellow after about two months
    My points, any of those slabs don't remove what components available before, so substantial wise it doesn't remove anything and will work like your device before and could be more.

    And I said, there are plenty of options to choose from. You hate glassback, take the plastic one. You hate curved display, take the flat one. You hate colorful back, take the black one. You hate wearing a case, take it bareback. The substance feature of the phone won't change wether you use the phone with notch or without one, with curved display or without one. The options are always there. You're free to choose, just so anyone else. It's just your complain doesn't do anything to this world.
    05-29-19 11:29 PM
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