[zzycatch]

True push email and multitasking is not enough when your os is boring.

It's all clear now. You know, what makes an OS not boring? It not working. Personally, I want my phone to have the same level of thrill as my kitchen faucet. That is, it just does its job, right, every time, to the point that I don't even need to think about it and I can take it for granted.

I don't want a phone or a faucet that is thrilling. Just something that delivers messages/water exactly as it should, every single time.

All those 3d graphics and what not? "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with *******."

_____________________
edited to correct a typo

[avt123]

In the above analogy, used by another poster, he used BMW vs Honda. In this analogy, we are comparing BMW vs Honda LIKE Blackberry vs iPhone. Prices are similar for the two phones, so the comparison of the two cars takes price OUT.

I have had both BMWs and Hondas. Both are reliable. Both last a long time. With price taken out of the equation, yes...you would have to be insane to choose Honda over BMW.

Just like what will happen when people get to choose between iPhone and Blackberry at VZW.

Get it?

jr

And when you need to take one to the shop it costs 10x more than the other. And what about fuel efficiency, BMW are horrible. They are PERFORMANCE/LUXURY vehicles, they get 26MPG. I get more than that cracking VTECH all day in my Civic. My Uncle works for BMW and can get any one he wants, but has a Subaru. The average BMW driver trades in there BMW for a new one after 36k-70k miles. So no, I don't get it. Hondas are more reliable. Japanese vehicles are more reliable. Why do you think American cars sell so poorly? Too pricey and they aren't as good. But anyways, this shouldn't be about car talk.

When people get to choose between the BB and iPhone on Verizon all **** will break loose.

[iamtim]

You know, what makes an OS not boring? It not working. Personally, I want my phone to same the same level of thrill as my kitchen faucet. That is, it just does its job, right, every time, to the point that I don't even need to think about it and I can take it for granted.

I don't want a phone or a faucet that is thrilling. Just something that delivers messages/water exactly as it should, every single time.

QFT, +1, *standing ovation*, and all that.

[Norsk]

When people get to choose between the BB and iPhone on Verizon all **** will break loose.

This is going to be the funniest day of our lives as we try and figure out who wins

[conker]

Guys, I love my BlackBerry BOLD, and have stuck with them since 2005. I have a $100 custom battery cover, so don't accuse me of being a BlackBerry hater. I just want RIM to compete.

I am tired of this old school thinking. Innovation only comes from thinking outside of the box. The moble market changes everyday. It's all about evolving. Please stop with the if it aint' broke fix it attitude. Stop saying arguments are weak because of an apples to oranges analogy. The reality is, business and consumer enabled devices are converging. They are not growing farther apart, they are and have been converging. Is this not obvious? What is wrong with expecting more from the company we love? Competition is good, it is in our best interest to demand more from RIM. The ONLY reason we are having these conversations is because of the iPhone. The ONLY reason RIM released the Storm is because of the iPhone. The ONLY reason there is a BB App Store is because of the iPhone. The ONLY reason RIM is making an effort to reach out to developers and make development easier is because of the iPhone. Aren't all these things good? Are we not happy that Apple finally kicked RIM's *** in gear, forced them to rethink strategies and product lineups, and put fear in their eyes? The consumer/we benefit from all of this.

If you look back at the countless Apple vs BlackBerry posts from last year it was all about:
- no cut & paste
- no video recording
- no mms
- blah, blah blah

Well guess what, they've got all that now, and they will keep catching up. They will slowly capture the corporate market.

Palm == MySpace = RIM
Google == Facebook == Apple

Wakeup guys, and demand more, it's the only way to stay relevant.

[SolarPlexus]

Guys, I love my BlackBerry BOLD, and have stuck with them since 2005. I have a $100 custom battery cover, so don't accuse me of being a BlackBerry hater. I just want RIM to compete.

I am tired of this old school thinking. Innovation only comes from thinking outside of the box. The moble market changes everyday. It's all about evolving. Please stop with the if it aint' broke fix it attitude. Stop saying arguments are weak because of an apples to oranges analogy. The reality is, business and consumer enabled devices are converging. They are not growing farther apart, they are and have been converging. Is this not obvious? What is wrong with expecting more from the company we love? Competition is good, it is in our best interest to demand more from RIM. The ONLY reason we are having these conversations is because of the iPhone. The ONLY reason RIM released the Storm is because of the iPhone. The ONLY reason there is a BB App Store is because of the iPhone. The ONLY reason RIM is making an effort to reach out to developers and make development easier is because of the iPhone. Aren't all these things good? Are we not happy that Apple finally kicked RIM's *** in gear, forced them to rethink strategies and product lineups, and put fear in their eyes? The consumer/we benefit from all of this.

If you look back at the countless Apple vs BlackBerry posts from last year it was all about:
- no cut & paste
- no video recording
- no mms
- blah, blah blah

Well guess what, they've got all that now, and they will keep catching up. They will slowly capture the corporate market.

Palm == MySpace = RIM
Google == Facebook == Apple

Wakeup guys, and demand more, it's the only way to stay relevant.

At least from my point of view (and I imagine many on this forum) Its not about not wanting to move the OS forward and having an "If it ain't broke don't fix it" attitude. As far as I am concerned if RIM can move forward and make me more productive....so be it. The thing is 90% of all the complaints on here have been that the OS is "stale" or "played out" or whatever. And then they raise the iphone up on its pedastal. Now, if RIM follows Apple, thats a step BACKWARD in communication and productivity. As was pointed out in another post, the OS itself is really ok. It seems people want fancy effects and stuff like that. Thats fine and everything, but there are still some of us who don't want to have to swipe and touch 5 times just to dial a phone number........

[conker]

Thats fine and everything, but there are still some of us who don't want to have to swipe and touch 5 times just to dial a phone number........

I am with you, and I love the fact that I can do it with one hand. I just want RIM to stay relevant. I want them to evolve and be nimble, not a slow moving tanker. The iPhone at $99 is a steal, and so, so compelling for the average (mass market) consumer. As soon as Apple moves their phone onto other carriers, the arguments about Curves being #1 sellers, market share, blah, blah, blah is over, and what if Apple releases a full on push email system, and has full multi-tasking support next rev? Already, the important built in OS applications can multi-task. Its a self fulfilling prophecy, and the outcome is obvious unless RIM reacts with some kind of plan. Which is also ironic, because RIM shouldn't be reacting, they should be innovating.

[SolarPlexus]

I am with you, and I love the fact that I can do it with one hand. I just want RIM to stay relevant. I want them to evolve and be nimble, not a slow moving tanker. The iPhone at $99 is a steal, and so, so compelling for the average (mass market) consumer. As soon as Apple moves their phone onto other carriers, the arguments about Curves being #1 sellers, market share, blah, blah, blah is over, and what if Apple releases a full on push email system, and has full multi-tasking support next rev? Already, the important built in OS applications can multi-task. Its a self fulfilling prophecy, and the outcome is obvious unless RIM reacts with some kind of plan. Which is also ironic, because RIM shouldn't be reacting, they should be innovating.

So I think my question is this:
To what end?
When Business and Consumer lines converge, who will win? The consumers or the business users? Because every single iphone person I know couldn't care less about productivity. They want to play with their web browser, take pictures, and play games.
And thats ok. I love my wife's phone. Its a BLAST. It really is.
Its just not the device I would choose to go into the trenches with me.
What happens to folks like you and me?

[zzycatch]

The thing is, RIM is innovative, just not in the whiz-bang-flash, more is more kinda way that its competition is.

Do you have any idea how difficult it is to make something that just works, always? It is easy and cheap to slap on lots of flash and I for one have no time for that.

Business and personal devices are merging because... most people don't really need business devices, they are just keeping up with the Jonses. So they get something that can do a few tasks, play a lot of complex games and looks cool with a touch screen ("ooooh") or parts that flip and twist to reveal other parts ("aaaah") or some even have both. Nevermind that typing on a touchscreen is worthless or that moving parts increase your probability of failure dramatically.

I know, that most companies would rather not have to support various games that might crash or otherwise cause problems to the phone. As an IT director, I would never sign off on an iphone... "get your ego needs met elsewhere, we're here to work." is an apropos response.

Unless the iPhone ditches the touchscreen, it will never be a consideration for any serious business.

[scorpiodsu]

Anyone who think that RIM has no improvements to make are kidding themselves. To think that it's ok to stay the same while other companies look to get better and emerge, is foolish. NO DEVICE IS PERFECT. So to think that "there's nothing broke" is naive. There are a lot of things RIM need to so to make the OS more consumer friendly. I'm going to say this again.... THE AVERAGE CONSUMER DOES NOT COME ON CRACKBERRY TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET THINGS TO WORK. The consumer market is growing in its demand for smartphones and the avg consumer does not want to be a tech geek or problem solver. They want stuff to work and they want things that look cool. Whether you people agree or not, that's fine. But there is no Storm if there was no iPhone. People don't want to need to know the difference file types you need to install an app OTA or on the computer, or battery pulls, OS leaks, memory leaks, clicking through folders like windows vista to find stuff.

It's going to be hilarious when RIM does change things and come with aa better OS then all the people who said they didn't need to change will look stupid. Just like when they get rid of the surepress on the Storm and everyone swore by their mother's grave that was main marketing feature for the Storm. There's nothing wrong with change if it's going to make thing better for US. And I don't understand because whether RIM changes or not the RIM fanboys will buy it regardless. Just don't understand who in their right mind thinks that a TECHNOLOGY company doesn't need to evolve.

[scorpiodsu]

The thing is, RIM is innovative, just not in the whiz-bang-flash, more is more kinda way that its competition is.

Do you have any idea how difficult it is to make something that just works, always? It is easy and cheap to slap on lots of flash and I for one have no time for that.

Business and personal devices are merging because... most people don't really need business devices, they are just keeping up with the Jonses. So they get something that can do a few tasks, play a lot of complex games and looks cool with a touch screen ("ooooh") or parts that flip and twist to reveal other parts ("aaaah") or some even have both. Nevermind that typing on a touchscreen is worthless or that moving parts increase your probability of failure dramatically.

I know, that most companies would rather not have to support various games that might crash or otherwise cause problems to the phone. As an IT director, I would never sign off on an iphone... "get your ego needs met elsewhere, we're here to work." is an apropos response.

Unless the iPhone ditches the touchscreen, it will never be a consideration for any serious business.

RIM hasn't been innovative in years. Their BIS and BES has been out for a while. Beside that, nothing else is really innovative.

[avt123]

Unless the iPhone ditches the touchscreen, it will never be a consideration for any serious business.

So even with the BlackBerry name, the Storm shouldn't be considered a business device too then, correct?

And touch screen typing isn't worthless. I type faster on my iPhone than I do on my Bold. Not all can do this but many can.

[conker]

The thing is, RIM is innovative, just not in the whiz-bang-flash, more is more kinda way that its competition is.

Do you have any idea how difficult it is to make something that just works, always? It is easy and cheap to slap on lots of flash and I for one have no time for that.

Business and personal devices are merging because... most people don't really need business devices, they are just keeping up with the Jonses. So they get something that can do a few tasks, play a lot of complex games and looks cool with a touch screen ("ooooh") or parts that flip and twist to reveal other parts ("aaaah") or some even have both. Nevermind that typing on a touchscreen is worthless or that moving parts increase your probability of failure dramatically.

I know, that most companies would rather not have to support various games that might crash or otherwise cause problems to the phone. As an IT director, I would never sign off on an iphone... "get your ego needs met elsewhere, we're here to work." is an apropos response.

Unless the iPhone ditches the touchscreen, it will never be a consideration for any serious business.

Right, but I guess you bring up a point I was trying to get across, I just wasn't able to do so. If all it takes is for Apple to come up with a keyboard enabled version of the iPhone to grab even more consumer and business market share, then they really don't have much to overcome. And they are still only on AT&T!

Make no mistake, Apple is fanatical about security, privacy and secrecy. Every OS revision has made incremental steps towards addressing the needs of the business user. You don't think their own people and IT department are driving the OS team to build towards a platform that they can sign-off on? What an incredible corporate environment to test such features and policies. Remember, Apple gave away an iPhone to every employee. Again, what an incredible testing ground to test corporate usage and policies.

The fact that the browser on the BB is still embarrassingly slow and incapable in comparison to the competition is a reflection of the corporate environment, and to a larger extent the software engineering teams capabilities. Really, who would take the RIM engineering team over the Google or Apple engineering team? It's a platform that is driven by software. There must be a solid and extensible software foundation to build upon. I don't have confidence in RIM's platform having the ability to evolve with the competition.

Did anyone see the new version of Facebook on the iPhone that just got released? There is no way a similar BB version will be produced. This is yet another example of the limitations to evolve and stay with the competition. And before anyone says Facebook is for tweens, do a search on these forums, there are thousands of BB users who care and use Facebook every single day, and no, I am not one of them. I am sure the same people who scoff at Facebook are the same people who were against AIM, ICQ, YIM, etc. because they thought email was enough.

If RIM only cared about what the "hardcore" on these forums care about, then there would be no Storm, no Pearl, no Camera, no YouTube support, no browser, no media player, etc. I will be the first to admit I didn't think I'd give a **** about a camera, but now my only real complaint on my Bold is the crappy camera and crappy browser. This is a good sign, though, it means I am satisfied with everything else. It is a far superior communication device, and that is what I prioritize over any other feature. They've nailed that aspect, I want them to improbe upon the "consumer" features. What's wrong with that?

[avt123]

They've nailed that aspect, I want them to improbe upon the "consumer" features. What's wrong with that?

Absolutely nothing. Good post!

[zzycatch]

So even with the BlackBerry name, the Storm shouldn't be considered a business device too then, correct?

Correct, the Storm is crap... I had one, briefly. Most people I know that had one with a actually need for a business phone, sent 'em back.

We serious user types can get swept up sometimes too.

RIM hasn't been innovative in years.

Just because their innovations have largely been in involved with the inner workings of the devices and not in the UI doesn't mean they don't innovate. Look at all their recent patents, almost exclusively about network durability, authentication, peer to peer mobile communications, antenna improvements, etc.

Anyone who think that RIM has no improvements to make are kidding themselves.

Of course RIM has improvements to make, there are many changes I'd like to see. None of them involve touch screens, games, or the UI however. As an off the top of my head, I'd love to see the ability to brick the device on x password failures, rather than just wiping the device, and requiring a hardware cryptographic key to recover (data or not, a device costing hundreds of dollars is still a target, this would mitigate that). Support for DRM'ed documents or some other mandatory labeling system would be great.... but I digress.

What innovations have Apple, HTC, or Palm come up with in the last year or two? Changes in the UI? Different, bad keyboards? New touch gestures? From what I can tell, WebOS doesn't even have a rudimentary security policy, but those cards sure are pretty!

Make no mistake, Apple is fanatical about security, privacy and secrecy.

Hahaha... yeah. They've relied on security by obscurity since the start. OS X was the first OS in their corporate history to have any semblance of security whatsoever, and it is pretty anemic. ****, it's already been discovered that an attacker can run arbitrary code on a remote 3.0 iphone via SMS.

They've nailed that aspect, I want them to improbe upon the "consumer" features. What's wrong with that?

Add consumer features, by definition harms the primary business feature, which is assurance. Whenever a system gets more complex, assurance goes down (without biblical increases in validation & verification efforts).

[avt123]

Correct, the Storm is crap... I had one, briefly. Most people I know that had one with a actually need for a business phone, sent 'em back.

We serious user types can get swept up sometimes too.

Lol. I agree with you on the crap part. But now it's time to hide from all the Storm users.

[zzycatch]

The thing is, the storm could have been a great device, but it just smacked of RIM losing their way and allowing the competition to lead them around instead of just continuing incremental improvements to their core market.

I really feel badly for Storm owners, their faith was taken advantage of and now they've been left high and dry.

That is something RIM should be ashamed over.

[tenorsaw]

What a sight it will be if / when the iPhone goes to the other carriers. It's going to eat into RIM's consumer market share big time. There's big market (CDMA) that's untapped right now. Remember, it can't be the other way around.

Right now, one of RIM's biggest advantage (in the consumer world at least) is that the iPhone is only on at&t.