08-02-14 04:20 PM
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  1. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    @ Xiaomi and pricing....

    They are a prime example on how you enter a market with immense barriers of entry and to still be successful nonetheless.

    One of the only ways to enter a rather mature market, if you don't have the next big thing, is to undercut the competition immensely and make a product that basically costs half as much but is just as good.
    Thanks to Android that is exactly what Xiaomi is doing, as they can concentrate on cheap hardware.

    The problem some people in here have, is that they apparently don't understand how much the average consumer doesn't care about BlackBerry's problems to price their devices competitively.
    When the avg consumer goes to an online store and finds a Z30 with specs from early last year for 500$, and a Xiaomi with specs from today for 300$...
    Who believes that the avg consumer will try to understand why the Z30 is that much more expensive ( not that it would matter, as said consumer will be happier with an Android and its ecosystem in about 85% of the cases anyhow)?

    Ah btw, BlackBerry has about a 40% gross margin.
    Doesn't seem as they would even try to make their devices cheaper.
    It should also be of note, that the comparison between Xiaomi and BlackBerry isn't idiotic, as certain users try to convey.
    Both manufacturers compete on the market place and I am able to buy phones from both brands.
    Since they compete with each other, every comparison is legitimate.

    The Chinese manufacturers are starting to enter international markets btw, keeping very low prices while providing top of the line specs.
    In the beginning of the next year, we should have started to see chinese manufacturers entering the "western mainstream".
    That's when it will get very interesting for consumers because they will change the price of equilibrium for a high-end smartphone (they will get cheaper overall).

    Posted via CB10
    JeepBB and SenorPistachio like this.
    07-25-14 05:14 AM
  2. --TommesJay--'s Avatar
    @ MarsupilamiX

    Great posts and so much truth in them! Especially concerning price elasticity.

    Except that demanding from BlackBerry to go a Xiaomi's hardware/price route is still idiotic since they simply can't, whether the avg consumers cares about this or not. It's like demanding that ice cream in the Sahara should melt just as slow as it does in Sweden during winter.
    07-25-14 07:37 AM
  3. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    @ MarsupilamiX

    Great posts and so much truth in them! Especially concerning price elasticity.

    Except that demanding from BlackBerry to go a Xiaomi's hardware/price route is still idiotic since they simply can't, whether the avg consumers cares about this or not. It's like demanding that ice cream in the Sahara should melt just as slow as it does in Sweden during winter.
    I didn't demand that BlackBerry should price their devices like Xiaomi. Actually I didn't demand anything there, apart from a very reasonable price on the Classic.

    But since I like to respond to you:
    If anything, BlackBerry should price their devices more like Xiaomi, not like them.
    40% gross margin is a lot.
    The costs for the R&D for BB10 should have been amortised by now (the initial development, not the ongoing for 10.x ofc).
    Half of their work force has been fired.
    And BlackBerry lost its premium appeal quite some time ago.

    All of those are reasons.... To.finally.come.down.with.prices.

    And funnily enough, BlackBerry partly agrees with me.
    The Z3, even if not specced like a high-end device, is finally a BB10 device that is priced nearly acceptable.
    The deal with Foxconn is an acknowledgement from BlackBerry, of where the market is heading.

    We should both know, that the price war will only intensify.
    And that sooner or later BlackBerry has to play that game as well.
    Just like they did it with the spec game. The Passport is their first acknowledgement of that one.

    Posted via CB10
    07-25-14 08:27 AM
  4. --TommesJay--'s Avatar
    I didn't demand that BlackBerry should price their devices like Xiaomi.
    I didn't accuse you of doing that so I stopped reading your post right after that very first sentence, sorry.
    07-25-14 08:55 AM
  5. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    @ MarsupilamiX

    Except that demanding from BlackBerry to go a Xiaomi's hardware/price route is still idiotic since they simply can't, whether the avg consumers cares about this or not. It's like demanding that ice cream in the Sahara should melt just as slow as it does in Sweden during winter.
    +

    I didn't accuse you of doing that so I stopped reading your post right after that very first sentence, sorry.
    =

    ??????

    Posted via CB10
    07-25-14 08:56 AM
  6. --TommesJay--'s Avatar
    It should also be of note, that the comparison between Xiaomi and BlackBerry isn't idiotic, as certain users try to convey.
    That part pointed to my responses to that guy who brought up Xiaomi in the first place. So my "Except that..." basically referred to HIS claims firstly and was therefore about that "demand of...ratio" and NOT a response to YOUR "comparison between Xiaomi and BlackBerry".

    Got it? Great.
    07-25-14 10:03 AM
  7. Dgree03's Avatar
    That part pointed to my responses to that guy who brought up Xiaomi in the first place. So my "Except that..." basically referred to HIS claims firstly and was therefore about that "demand of...ratio" and NOT a response to YOUR "comparison between Xiaomi and BlackBerry".

    Got it? Great.
    If blackberry cannot price their phones accordingly, then they should just exit the market all together.
    JeepBB and SenorPistachio like this.
    07-25-14 10:13 AM
  8. spikesolie's Avatar
    If blackberry cannot price their phones accordingly, then they should just exit the market all together.
    They are pricing it according to giants. Again xiaomi has a different business model. Over pricing is not something I condone but under pricing isn't something they can afford

    Posted via CB10
    07-25-14 11:23 AM
  9. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    They are pricing it according to giants. Again xiaomi has a different business model. Over pricing is not something I condone but under pricing isn't something they can afford

    Posted via CB10
    If and when xiaomi enters the NA market it will be interesting to see the impact it has on Apple and Samsung. Realistically this is not a BB vs xiaomi pricing debate, but more of a xiaomi (and similar companies) vs big incumbents pricing.
    07-25-14 11:56 AM
  10. TgeekB's Avatar
    It won't affect Apple much as they have built their market. Android has competitively priced phones. It will provide another choice for consumers though.

    Posted with my Q
    07-25-14 11:58 AM
  11. spikesolie's Avatar
    It won't affect Apple much as they have built their market. Android has competitively priced phones. It will provide another choice for consumers though.

    Posted with my Q
    It won't affect apple simply because if spec was a difference, apple would have already been in trouble. Thing is the iPhone audience either don't know much or don't care much for spec. Same for BlackBerry really. I feel android is the only platform where the focus is more on hardware than software

    Posted via CB10
    07-25-14 03:25 PM
  12. --TommesJay--'s Avatar
    If blackberry cannot price their phones accordingly, then they should just exit the market all together.
    Except that we have a different definition of "accordingly". I pay a price for quality. And the quality of a phone is just so much more than chipsets and screen resolutions, no?
    07-25-14 03:36 PM
  13. TgeekB's Avatar
    It won't affect apple simply because if spec was a difference, apple would have already been in trouble. Thing is the iPhone audience either don't know much or don't care much for spec. Same for BlackBerry really. I feel android is the only platform where the focus is more on hardware than software

    Posted via CB10
    I agree. Iphone fans want a phone that works for them and is aesthetically pleasing. Android, since it is open source, is all about specs and being different.

    Posted with my Q
    07-25-14 03:38 PM
  14. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    It won't affect apple simply because if spec was a difference, apple would have already been in trouble. Thing is the iPhone audience either don't know much or don't care much for spec. Same for BlackBerry really. I feel android is the only platform where the focus is more on hardware than software

    Posted via CB10
    It is just wrong to say that iPhones don't have good specs.
    CPU,GPU and camera are market leading.

    Apart from that, we should also note that the overall package you buy, is very good when you get an Apple product.
    If customer service is a spec, Apple is marketleading there as well.

    BlackBerry, going by the Z10,Z30 and Q5 sales is not like Apple in terms of hardware.
    People were not willing to go with those underspecced and overpriced phones, sorry.

    Also, the reason why Apple won't be affected that much, by high specced chinese Android phones, is because they have the "premium niche" in the smartphone sector, just like they do with the PC market.
    But don't kid yourself...
    Even Apple knows that 650$ for a 4 inch device won't work forever.

    For Samsung and co however, an entering from Xiaomi (and similar manufacturers) will definitely be felt.
    Android is very reliant on the spec war and someone who sells "your phone" for half the price, will annoy you.

    For BlackBerry, every new successful competitor is a problem. And that BlackBerries are overpriced, isn't exactly news.

    Posted via CB10
    JeepBB likes this.
    07-25-14 03:55 PM
  15. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    I agree. Iphone fans want a phone that works for them and is aesthetically pleasing. Android, since it is open source, is all about specs and being different.

    Posted with my Q
    But all buyers want a phone that is more or less aesthetically appealing.
    Why should I buy an ugly Android if am sure to get the same specs in a prettier package?
    (HTC One vs Samsung S5 for example. I probably wouldn't want the Samsung)

    Posted via CB10
    07-25-14 03:57 PM
  16. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Except that we have a different definition of "accordingly". I pay a price for quality. And the quality of a phone is just so much more than chipsets and screen resolutions, no?
    Yeah, like ecosystems, after sale support and knowledge of your manufacturer still being there in 365 days.

    But I probably have to ask you what this overall quality is, that you mean?
    For me the Note 3 or the iPhone 5s are better quality products than the Z30.
    It's also the reason why I didn't buy a Z30 until now. It's still not worth its price.

    To say it simply, a product is worth what I am willing to pay for it.
    And over 99% of the market aren't willing to pay the unwarranted BlackBerry premium.

    Posted via CB10
    07-25-14 04:00 PM
  17. spikesolie's Avatar
    Yeah, like ecosystems, after sale support and knowledge of your manufacturer still being there in 365 days.

    But I probably have to ask you what this overall quality is, that you mean?
    For me the Note 3 or the iPhone 5s are better quality products than the Z30.
    It's also the reason why I didn't buy a Z30 until now. It's still not worth its price.

    To say it simply, a product is worth what I am willing to pay for it.
    And over 99% of the market aren't willing to pay the unwarranted BlackBerry premium.

    Posted via CB10
    I disagree about 5s being better quality

    Posted via CB10
    07-25-14 04:03 PM
  18. TgeekB's Avatar
    But all buyers want a phone that is more or less aesthetically appealing.
    Why should I buy an ugly Android if am sure to get the same specs in a prettier package?
    (HTC One vs Samsung S5 for example. I probably wouldn't want the Samsung)

    Posted via CB10
    True but Apple seemed to market the look of their device best. It is certainly a big selling point with them.

    Posted with my Q
    07-25-14 04:10 PM
  19. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    I disagree about 5s being better quality

    Posted via CB10
    That's why I asked how you would define quality

    True but Apple seemed to market the look of their device best. It is certainly a big selling point with them.

    Posted with my Q
    Not saying that isn't the case.
    Apple definitely was able to get even more buyers through placing themselves as a "lifestyle product" and selling style.

    But it's just wrong to assume that's the only reason people buy their devices.
    The whole "shiny new iToy" train of thought.
    (not saying that you did that, but I wanted to make it extra clear)

    But other big selling points are apps (market leading, no questions asked), the after sale support, consistency and ease of use as a standalone product, paired with the ease of use with other Apple products.

    Posted via CB10
    07-25-14 04:35 PM
  20. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    That's why I asked how you would define quality



    Not saying that isn't the case.
    Apple definitely was able to get even more buyers through placing themselves as a "lifestyle product" and selling style.

    But it's just wrong to assume that's the only reason people buy their devices.
    The whole "shiny new iToy" train of thought.
    (not saying that you did that, but I wanted to make it extra clear)

    But other big selling points are apps (market leading, no questions asked), the after sale support, consistency and ease of use as a standalone product, paired with the ease of use with other Apple products.

    Posted via CB10
    You make a great points. I especially agree with your lifestyle comment. I personally think most people buy iPhones because of the lifestyle angle. Just like those same folks probably drive BMW's and wear Gucci. It's part of the image they want to portray. It's why Blackberry was so successful back in 2007. They were an aspirational brand because they were used by 'high powered' business people. Then Apple came along and stole their cool. Maybe BB is going about this whole thing all wrong. Maybe it isn't ecosystem and after sales support (don't get me wrong, those are very important). Maybe they need to just find a way to be cool again. I know easier said than done. Maybe they are hoping the Passport is unique enough that it garners them some cool factor?

    I will also add that regular non-internet forum consumers :-D are probably easier to sway with slick marketing and a cool form factor.
    07-25-14 05:04 PM
  21. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    It won't affect Apple much as they have built their market. Android has competitively priced phones. It will provide another choice for consumers though.

    Posted with my Q
    This is true. But it could have some impact if the devices are really good and really cheap, making it a no-brainier for Joe consumer to at least have a look.
    07-25-14 05:05 PM
  22. --TommesJay--'s Avatar
    But all buyers want a phone that is more or less aesthetically appealing.
    Why should I buy an ugly Android if am sure to get the same specs in a prettier package?
    (HTC One vs Samsung S5 for example. I probably wouldn't want the Samsung)

    Posted via CB10
    Yet most people buy Samsung phones. What does that tell us about aluminum phones?
    07-26-14 09:40 AM
  23. --TommesJay--'s Avatar
    Yeah, like ecosystems, after sale support and knowledge of your manufacturer still being there in 365 days.

    But I probably have to ask you what this overall quality is, that you mean?
    For me the Note 3 or the iPhone 5s are better quality products than the Z30.
    It's also the reason why I didn't buy a Z30 until now. It's still not worth its price.

    To say it simply, a product is worth what I am willing to pay for it.
    And over 99% of the market aren't willing to pay the unwarranted BlackBerry premium.

    Posted via CB10
    I own a Z10 and not a Z30. And I prefer it over an iPhone 5S, an S5, an HTC One M8 or let's say an Xperia Z2 my fiance currently owns.

    It isn't really certain features but more the overall combination of those in a certain package.
    07-26-14 09:44 AM
  24. vanrickman's Avatar
    Same here. I put the money from the sale of my S4 in the piggy bank, and I've topped it up, so I'm primed and ready to pull the trigger. Is that too many metaphors?


    Sent from my Q10 using Tapatalk
    On CB?
    It's never too many

    My Canada My BlackBerry My Z30
    07-26-14 09:54 AM
  25. MarsupilamiX's Avatar
    Yet most people buy Samsung phones. What does that tell us about aluminum phones?
    I don't know....
    What does it say that the most popular phone on the market uses it?

    I said that everyone wants an aesthetically pleasing phone. There was no opinion on what should be universally qualified as such. Just what I would prefer.

    I own a Z10 and not a Z30. And I prefer it over an iPhone 5S, an S5, an HTC One M8 or let's say an Xperia Z2 my fiance currently owns.

    It isn't really certain features but more the overall combination of those in a certain package.
    That's awesome!
    But... What does it have to do with what I said?

    Is it because I said that other phones have a better value proposition for more than 99% of the market?

    I bought the Z10 at launch and understanding where the competition is going, I didn't buy a Z30.
    Why didn't you get one?

    Posted via CB10
    07-26-14 10:05 AM
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