11-12-11 05:29 PM
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  1. zgods1's Avatar
    I know RIM has been coping an absolute hounding for there market prices going down and loss of the consumer market. But in the past 2-3 months I have seen that a lot more personal blackberrys being purchased, I have seen atleast 5-6 of my friends converted from Iphone/Android to BB. Not to mention I have seen atleast 15-20 of my FB friends change to BB. This is just amongst my social group which makes me wonder how many more people have converted or upgraded? In Australia the Torch and Bold 9780 were big bread winners for the OS 6 Platform and I Have been to a few Telstra (Rogers/AT&T Equivilent) shops and I have seen that they have really been promoting the new 9900. I think the biggest step forward for rim has been the 9900. I was speaking with my dad and he said his company/government sector (250-300 employees) have all switched from the Iphone 4 to the BB 9900. He also said that in a bunch of other government sectors that provide employees with phones that 70% will be converting to the BB 9900. I asked him why, he said from his understanding that the email platform is the biggest criteria for there decision and the physical keyboard is easier on the older generation when it comes to reply to emails primarily.

    So give me your thoughts is this a step in the right direction for RIM or is it just a 'phase'?
    11-10-11 09:07 PM
  2. theRock1975's Avatar
    Same in Canada. I work for the federal government. We ordered thousands of bb7 phones. There's nothing even close to be considered other than bb. Management is open minded but there's 0% chance we will switch to a competitor and it has nothing to do with rim being canadian. Most of our technology purchases are American.
    11-10-11 09:22 PM
  3. zgods1's Avatar
    I don't think RIM are quite as far behind as everyone suggests. I agree there are some things that need to be improved to keep up with the market. But I think they just need some better marketing and they need to minimize the range they have and design one particular phone like how apple just has the 'Iphone' Blackberry should have one phone that says this is what we are. Having the physical keyboard phones,, complete touch screens and hybrid phone it doesn't quite say look we are blackberry.
    11-10-11 09:29 PM
  4. blackberry-unlocking710's Avatar
    The OS change is a big thing.. who knows what will be in a few months... changes are made, i hope for the best - more developers and apps would be great for RIM.
    11-10-11 11:41 PM
  5. zgods1's Avatar
    I think that is where RIM is really lacking it isn't so much there UI or hardware or OS I think it's the fact there is such a lack of app's. IMO i think its a gimmic being a previous Iphone owner, i got over the apps pretty quickly, but it is a huge marketting bonus for Apple and Android. I think if the App world could expand it would be a lot better and a lot more marketable to the younger generation.
    metroside likes this.
    11-11-11 01:36 AM
  6. kevinnugent's Avatar
    Hmmm... I don't see this at all. I work for an Australian firm that has just over 18,000 employees in the group. They just drop kicked RIM to the kerb. All middle management and above are being issued iPhones. My brother in the civil service, the same things happening.

    I'm sure RIM are still going to do OK here corporate wise, and the teenagers who's phone is given to them free and BBM doesn't cost anything..... but the corporate guys that are given a choice? Forgetaboutit....

    I think it's a phenomenon like when you've just bought a new car and so then you see that model everywhere.
    11-11-11 02:29 AM
  7. kevinnugent's Avatar
    Did you read how Jetstar just bought 3,000 iPad2's to go into their fleet? They could have had Playbooks - probably for half the price - but they didn't choose them.
    11-11-11 02:32 AM
  8. Pete6#WP's Avatar
    It's the same in the UK where the BlackBerry is the student/teen phone of choice.

    The Indian BlackBerry market is booming too and outstrips the iPhone/Android.

    In the US there are so many Apple analysts/fanbois who whrite sh!t about BlackBerry that I am sure that Apple is funding some of them to write such tripe. This does not seem to be happening outside the US - go figure.
    11-11-11 02:51 AM
  9. sam_b77's Avatar
    Kevin makes a good point.
    For the longest time RIM was operating in a market where the only capable Smartphone was the Blackberry. With iPhone and Androids that changed and companies opened up their policies for their employees. Not every company is looking for tightly controlled security and not every employees is at the level where the data they handle is sensitive.
    Also another thing to probably hit BBs is user fatigue. They have been using BB for so long that they just wanted a new plaything which also does the things BBs can. Nothing to diminish BB but just users getting bored.
    iPhones and Androids are new with exciting features. Maybe once people get fatigued by iPhones and Androids the move will be towards the BBX phones. These things are never predictable.
    Pete6#WP and kevinnugent like this.
    11-11-11 02:53 AM
  10. world traveler and former ceo's Avatar
    It's the same in the UK where the BlackBerry is the student/teen phone of choice.

    The Indian BlackBerry market is booming too and outstrips the iPhone/Android.

    In the US there are so many Apple analysts/fanbois who whrite sh!t about BlackBerry that I am sure that Apple is funding some of them to write such tripe. This does not seem to be happening outside the US - go figure.
    Yeah ... many are apple shareholders and are solely motivated by that to prop up Apple and spread bad reports and lies about Blackberry .. its anything but objective, for sure .... you see a lot of that in the press too ... hidden agendas .....

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-11-11 03:20 AM
  11. zgods1's Avatar
    I think sam brings up a great point about how people are bored and want a new toy. I also think when Iphones really came into a world of their own they had the 'App Store' which had over 1 million apps. That was probably their marketing strong point and they were very smart about it.
    11-11-11 03:41 AM
  12. Pete6#WP's Avatar
    Yeah ... many are apple shareholders and are solely motivated by that to prop up Apple and spread bad reports and lies about Blackberry .. its anything but objective, for sure .... you see a lot of that in the press too ... hidden agendas .....
    Oh, for sure they are shareholders. Apple is the darling of many portfolios because it has been such a good financial performer. My US broker is always touting it as a gret place to invest.

    The only part of your post that I do not completely agree with is "hidden agendas". I do not think that this is hidden at all. I think that this anti-RIM campaign is quite blatant and is being carefully orchestrated.
    11-11-11 03:46 AM
  13. ichat's Avatar
    RIM has a market. That is corporate sector, government sector etc. The problem is that those iPhone and Android users compare the devices blindly with ought realizing the actual use. Although RIM shouldn't stop selling to consumers, we need to knock sense into people that RIM DEVICES ARE USUALLY NOT FOR GAMES. Trollers, I'm sorry but all my friends using iOS and Android and are in corporate sectors have at least 5 games. So well.... I kinda proved you people wrong.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-11-11 04:11 AM
  14. Pete6#WP's Avatar
    RIM has a market. That is corporate sector, government sector etc. The problem is that those iPhone and Android users compare the devices blindly with ought realizing the actual use. Although RIM shouldn't stop selling to consumers, we need to knock sense into people that RIM DEVICES ARE USUALLY NOT FOR GAMES. Trollers, I'm sorry but all my friends using iOS and Android and are in corporate sectors have at least 5 games. So well.... I kinda proved you people wrong.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Yes you did - for the US. This thread is NOT about the US the OP started it about a BlackBerry resurgence in Australia.

    I jumped in and pointed out that the BlackBerry phone is the phone of choice for young people in the UK. These people are gamers to the hilt.

    The US market whilst huge is now very anti-BlackBerry. Since Apple came to the market with the sole intention of dominating the smartphone market, it would not be surprising if they helped their own case by attacking the competition. There is nothing wrong with doing this, but I think that it has distorted the US market.

    So whilst I agree with you in the US, I do not think that this is the whole picture. I spend quite a bit of time in the US - my son lives there - and I see more BlackBerrys in airports than any other phone. Out and about in shopping malls and restaurants, I also see a large number of BlackBerrys. There are many Android devices too as well as iPhones.

    RIM was first to market with the smartphone and, imo, still makes the best but, I am not a gamer and I do not suffer from moments of micro-boredom that would make me need to stare at a small screen whenever I have 2 spare minutes. That's just me and clearly others differ. Here then is the real point. I want a phone with a keyboard and one that is easy to use and has an interface similar to my PC (trackpad = mouse, well enough for me). I can click on icons and not mess up my phone when I grab it by the screen as I have seen happen with touch screen only devices.

    I also do not want games on my phone. The BlackBerry is therefore my ideal phone. Many, many pther people waill want the exact opposite of what I want.
    Last edited by 4Q2; 11-11-11 at 04:29 AM.
    11-11-11 04:22 AM
  15. zgods1's Avatar
    If the conversation splits into other countries I don't mind, I'm more interested on peoples opinions as to whether or not people think Blackberry may be making a bit of a come back with these new OS 7 Devices. I think people concetrate to much on the US market and are very narrow minded in the sense, as pointed out there is a huge market in India and the UK is also growing.
    11-11-11 04:28 AM
  16. ichat's Avatar
    Sorry about my post being off topic. Yes, US is gone but there are still 6 billion + people RIM can be attacking. Anyway, in India there are around 1 billion and 200 million people. If around 300,000,000 can afford a phone, I see 1/3 phones being a BB with only 1/5 being an iPhone. Now that RIM is launching the 9788 in China, you have approx another 400,000,000 you can attack. Who said that if you kept US then you kept the world?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-11-11 05:03 AM
  17. zgods1's Avatar
    ichat makes a great point there, its incrediable how the market varies from country to country!
    11-11-11 05:16 AM
  18. Pete6#WP's Avatar
    Absolutely, I agree with ichat. The thing about the US market is that it is such a huge single market. Once you are in that market, what happens outside it tends not to be quite so relevant. Given the physical distance of the US from anywhere except Canada and Mexico, this is not surprising.

    There are a couple of things to remember about RIM however.

    1). They are a member of the British Commonwealth which gives them access to the rest of the member countries like Australia, New Zealand and many others. In total there are 54 countries in the Commonwealth Commonwealth Secretariat - Member States

    2). RIM have manufacturing facilities in more than one place. I know that RIM makes products in Taiwan, Mexico and Hungary and I suppose that they must make some stuff in Canada too. This gives them a lot of local leverage. Europeans like the "made in Europe" sticker just as Americans like to see "Made in USA" on what they buy.

    It is also worth mentioning that Mexico has the world's richest man, Carlos Slim. Slim runs, guess what? That's right, telecom and cell phone companies. Like I said earlier, RIM makes phones in Mexicoo but I rather feel that many impressionable young Mexicans will prefer to follow the US marketing messages and will flock to the iPhone simply because it is the current Americano fashion and, that, they love.
    11-11-11 05:56 AM
  19. sam_b77's Avatar
    Sorry about my post being off topic. Yes, US is gone but there are still 6 billion + people RIM can be attacking. Anyway, in India there are around 1 billion and 200 million people. If aroun
    d 300,000,000 can afford a phone, I see 1/3 phones being a BB with only 1/5 being an iPhone. Now that RIM is launching the 9788 in China, you have approx another 400,000,000 you can attack. Who said that if you kept US then you kept the world?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Just to bring out some numbers, at last count India had more than 800 million ACTIVE cell phone connections.
    Global mobile statistics 2011: all quality mobile marketing research, mobile Web stats, subscribers, ad revenue, usage, trends
    This year the smartphone sales in India are expected to be around 12 million. A growth of 100% from last year.
    RIM has a smartphone market share of 20% in India. And it's growing at a rate which will soon give it the largest smartphone market share.
    BlackBerry's Indian Curve-ball - Forbes.com
    If we assume the smartphone sales increasing in India at 100% for the next two years and 50% thereafter, we are looking at a smartphone market of nearly 100 million smartphones.
    Just to put that in perspective, 100 million is NEARLY a third of the entire US population. ( I wrote "NEARLY" for the benefit of TheEconomist101, he would be lurking near about to correct grammar, approximations and spellings)
    In a 10 year period the possibilities are huge, however they would be beyond accurate prediction of any kind.
    RIM having a 20% market share in India and sitting on so much potential is awesome. All they need to ensure is that they don't lose the imagination of the people here like they did in USA. Apple has a negligible presence here, but that doesn't mean much, once Apple find the US market to be saturated enough, they will launch an aggressive campaign in India, and they are slowly getting the presence in India in the form of Macstores all over to launch that broadside attack in a few years time.
    Hopefully the BBX will keep RIM in the hunt in India. In USA, as things stand now, BBX will have to claw back the market from Apple and that is a tall order.
    11-11-11 06:07 AM
  20. ichat's Avatar
    /\ thanks for the redo of information

    EDIT: we also have to look at the people who can afford these phones
    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-11-11 06:20 AM
  21. Pete6#WP's Avatar
    So far this has been a very constructive discussion. I have enjoyed it.
    11-11-11 06:33 AM
  22. zgods1's Avatar
    Just to put that in perspective, 100 million is NEARLY a third of the entire US population. ( I wrote "NEARLY" for the benefit of TheEconomist101, he would be lurking near about to correct grammar, approximations and spellings)
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. that has made my night.
    11-11-11 06:38 AM
  23. zgods1's Avatar
    Blackberry's are quite affordable with the blackberry curve which in Australia sells for $199 (in american terms thats like paying $110 for a phone) on prepaid, and in australia if you get a plan you generally get the phone for free. Like im on a $59 cap and I got my Bold 9780 originally for free. So they are rather affordable! $59 a month is extremely affordable by any persons means. I mean I am on tradies wages [Electrician Apprentice] which comes to about $1400 a month so $59 is cheap as chips for me!!

    So i think it is a rather affordable phone. But if we are talking about outright, Blackberry (in australia) tends to work out to be anywhere from $50-$200 cheaper than the latest Iphone or Android phones For example, I could pick up a Bold 9900 for $450 today where as the Samsung Galaxy would cost me $600 and the iphone your looking at about $700.

    There is some food for thought :-)
    11-11-11 06:43 AM
  24. sam_b77's Avatar
    /\ thanks for the redo of information

    EDIT: we also have to look at the people who can afford these phones
    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    True, affordability is an Issue.
    The Indian economy works strangely . The unpublished economy is bigger than the published one.
    Many people buy smuggled phones, so they don't come up in official sales figures. The smartphone sold through black market channels are not available for the count.
    Its not affordability as such but need base which is stopping an explosion in smartphone sales.
    I'm 33, and people my parents' age just don't have the NEED or USE for it (well they have the USE but they don't listen, parents these days...what does one do with them )
    Things are changing as teenagers become young adults and need their internet, mails and social networking on the go. These are the people who drive sales.
    That's why I took a baseline of 12 million sales in 2011 and added from there. Growth rate of 100% (2010 to 2011 the sales grew by 100%) for the first 2 yrs and then 50% growth in sales thereafter for 5 yrs.
    Last edited by sam_b77; 11-11-11 at 07:03 AM.
    11-11-11 06:57 AM
  25. Pete6#WP's Avatar
    Blackberry's are quite affordable with the blackberry curve which in Australia sells for $199 (in american terms thats like paying $110 for a phone) on prepaid, and in australia if you get a plan you generally get the phone for free. Like im on a $59 cap and I got my Bold 9780 originally for free. So they are rather affordable! $59 a month is extremely affordable by any persons means. I mean I am on tradies wages [Electrician Apprentice] which comes to about $1400 a month so $59 is cheap as chips for me!!

    So i think it is a rather affordable phone. But if we are talking about outright, Blackberry (in australia) tends to work out to be anywhere from $50-$200 cheaper than the latest Iphone or Android phones For example, I could pick up a Bold 9900 for $450 today where as the Samsung Galaxy would cost me $600 and the iphone your looking at about $700.

    There is some food for thought :-)
    The large number of phones that RIM make is one of its strengths. The Curve is a case in point. Carriers hate phones. Carriers want to sell you call minumtes, SMS text and data megabytes. The phone that they give you is just a facilitator for them to get at your money by selling you the above services.

    The Curve is very cheap so it makes life much easier for the carriers to sell what they really want to sell. Phones like the Bold and Torch mean that they have to take a bigger hit on the hardware sales price subsidy and the phone costs more for the customer. I know of no other phone company that sells a range of phones like the BlackBerry that all work pretty much the same and will do more or less the same. This makes the Curve a really good seller to people (students, etc.) who want a smartphone but do not yet have the money to buy top of the range.

    I countries where people do not earn much, the Curve is also a good seller for the same reasons except that the Curve;s market penetration goes far further into the professional market.

    Even in more affluent markets many people buy the Curve for non-technical users withing the same household when they them selves may have a Torch or a Bold.

    A wide range of phones that share a common OS makes a great deal of sense on the world market stage.
    11-11-11 07:06 AM
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