[blee4]

BlackBerry could really use a Steve Jobs. I'm not passing judgment on Chen yet, he just doesn't have the come back visionary attitude. Although BlackBerry really just needs a lot of polish they aren't reinventing an industry. I see it for what it is, which is a tool but it's rough around the edges very crude.

Posted via my Q10

[chickenman18]

Big picture: If the differences between the platforms are debatable, then what's the compelling reason to switch?
Blackberry needs to find it's compelling reason, make it a call to action, and sell like hell.



Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums mobile app

[Gnomesane]

Big picture: If the differences between the platforms are debatable, then what's the compelling reason to switch?
Blackberry needs to find it's compelling reason, make it a call to action, and sell like hell.

Sent from my iPhone using CB Forums mobile app

Good point. BlackBerry does need to make the case in the consumer market. Right now the perception of the company is at an all time low, so I wouldn't expect them to make inroads any time soon. Which is why they've turned back to the enterprise market, where they still have a presence.

The consumer market is on hold with the exception of small steps like the Z3 in non-Western markets. All hands are on Enterprise, which traditionally is far less fickle than consumers.

Personally, I don't think you'll see BlackBerry return its primary focus to the consumer market before 2016. Nor should they, the Enterprise and M2M markets are more important than consumers for BlackBerry, imho.

[BeautyEh]

I mean - listen - I love threads like this - It's great fun to be a fan of something, whether it's a sports team or a tech company, or even a politician that you feel represents your beliefs positively. But let's all not fool ourselves: Apple and Samsung make terrific devices too. We're living in this crazy, futuristic age which is actually REAL, actually our present. We have technology that was hundreds of years off in Star Trek's portrayal of the future.
I think a lot of us have already adjusted to the concept of BB as a cool outsider to the consumer game. I'm finding I prefer it this way, and I'd like to think I'm honest enough to understand that there are psychological reasons for this; I am the kind of person who enjoys laughing at the crowd in whatever mirthful, Nietzsche-esque way is possible. Not having an iPhone, which has become as ubiquitous as smoking cigarettes in the 50's, is almost part of my identity now (albeit vaguely). Using something like BlackBerry is too. I want BB to be a huge success, but the idea of every 12 year old girl with braces desiring one is somehow unappealing. iPhone is as standard to those girls as Katy Perry or One Direction. So let's not keep this notion going that consumer dominance is even desirable anymore, let alone possible (it isnt). The cell phone game for consumer has become status-oriented, identity based, and entertainment-leaning just like many other aspects of consumerdom. Blackberry's fall was the end of an era I think that is not coming back.

Posted via CB10

[Gnomesane]

I mean - listen - I love threads like this - It's great fun to be a fan of something, whether it's a sports team or a tech company, or even a politician that you feel represents your beliefs positively. But let's all not fool ourselves: Apple and Samsung make terrific devices too. We're living in this crazy, futuristic age which is actually REAL, actually our present. We have technology that was hundreds of years off in Star Trek's portrayal of the future.
I think a lot of us have already adjusted to the concept of BB as a cool outsider to the consumer game. I'm finding I prefer it this way, and I'd like to think I'm honest enough to understand that there are psychological reasons for this; I am the kind of person who enjoys laughing at the crowd in whatever mirthful, Nietzsche-esque way is possible. Not having an iPhone, which has become as ubiquitous as smoking cigarettes in the 50's, is almost part of my identity now (albeit vaguely). Using something like BlackBerry is too. I want BB to be a huge success, but the idea of every 12 year old girl with braces desiring one is somehow unappealing. iPhone is as standard to those girls as Katy Perry or One Direction. So let's not keep this notion going that consumer dominance is even desirable anymore, let alone possible (it isnt). The cell phone game for consumer has become status-oriented, identity based, and entertainment-leaning just like many other aspects of consumerdom. Blackberry's fall was the end of an era I think that is not coming back.

Posted via CB10

Brilliant.

[donnation]

You'd walk away from me then.

If you're talking about this thread, then the Android user responded first, by my read of the last few pages. And the Android user made some choice comments on the Hub (as an Android and BB10 user). But then again I'm an Android and BB10 user as well, I just prefer BB10 whereas the other Android user prefers Android.

Sorry, don't see what's so offensive. Other than F* me, I guess.

But then again, he was saying F* me, not F* you... So what's your big hairy issue? Never heard a swear before?

Great. I've never had a conversation with anyone who ends all their sentences that way but if that's your thing by all means say "F* Me" to everyone you talk to.

I never said I was offended and I don't care at all that he ended his comments with F* me, it just shows that it's an argument that was going nowhere. I simply said to PP that she should just let the argument die as there isn't arguing with anyone that thinks their opinion is THE only opinion and that anyone else who disagrees with that opinion is wrong. Like saying that pulling down from the top is stupid on Android because all their devices are too big. BB makes a very large device that pulls down a menu from the top!! My point was that you can't be critical of one OS that does that when BB phones do it too. Just because the it's the settings tab doesn't menu doesn't make it any less true. You as an Android user know that you don't have to use the pull down menu and it can be customized to where you don't even have to do that.

[reeneebob]

Yes. It IS a perfect example.

You said earlier you own an LG G2. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I remember that phone has a 5.2 inch screen. So look at what you get out of a 5.2 inch screen after going through the hussle to pull that tray all the way down:

2 switches
Weather
One email
A notification that calls now go over WiFi
A notification that BBM is connected (which can't be deleted AFAIK)

Great use of space on a 5.2 inch screen - happy scrolling .

Not to get in the middle of the squabbling, but you absolutely CAN get rid of the BBM connected notification. It sucks that BB defaulted it on, and it's the first thing I turn off in BBM on android.

[Gnomesane]

Not to get in the middle of the squabbling, but you absolutely CAN get rid of the BBM connected notification. It sucks that BB defaulted it on, and it's the first thing I turn off in BBM on android.

Thanks for that.

Funny that we're squabbling about how BlackBerry is NOT is the same league as Samsung and Apple on a BlackBerry site.

But whatever. I'm sure this happens on iMore and Android Central, right?

[Jamie Brahm]

Lol, amusing sentiment. People actually use iphones where you are? They are pretty rare where I live. Its all android. You rarely see iphones.

But yeah, i kinda agree. I like the idea that I am a blackberry outsider. Its like a "hipster" smart phone, because less people are using it. Not that I like hipsters. And I love android, I just wouldn't want it on my phone.

But I disagree that its the end of an era. This current era will also end. Tablets will take the place of most of the large screen touch only devices, they will outsell smart phones, outsell desktops, so for the most practical everyday uses people will use them for portable computing, and people will then want some pragmatism in their phones again (and open system networking and software).

When people currently using their five inch touch only phone at home on the couch or in bed or a mates place, or at work in the office - get there first taste of a 6-10 inch tablet (with or without keyboard case), they will wonder why they have been using such a small device for the purpose. Anything up to a 8 inch or so can be held easily in one day, slung around whereever you are just like a smart phone.

And if you can use that in most circumstances, the few where you would use a smart phone for them (bus stop, walking down the street, waiting at doctors office if you forgot your tablet, whatever) - become pretty unimportant for the majority of people.

Then in probably about ten years time, graphene will take off. And both markets will change again. And then 2d computing - computer paper essentially, its definately eventually on its way, molecularly flexible graphene and 2d semi-conductor based sheets of computer housed in plastic or rubber. And then primitive AI driven desktop and mainframe devices - that will spell the return of bigger less mobile computing, because smaller hardware will not be capable of the power. The era is always changing, always ending.

I personally pick this is the peak of the current large screen smart phone dominated era, and its all down hill from here.

[donnation]

I don't end all my conversations with F* me, only when I'm exasperated. And I use it sparingly, just to be clear.

To be honest with you, out of respect, I find these forums to be overwhelmingly negative. I'm astonished at the number of anti-BlackBerry comments for what is supposedly a BlackBerry enthusiast site. For the most part, beyond BlackBerry users it seems to be Android users that visit CrackBerry (not iPhone or Windows Phone users, to be fair) and weigh in with their "wisdom" on a regular basis. I've asked in the past why they bother to come to a BlackBerry site and I've always been met with "I'm offended you would ask", or snarkiness in general.

I still don't get it.

My point being: this is a BlackBerry fan site, or so I thought. A place for BlackBerry members to gather and share their experiences and HELP one another with their issues when it comes to troubleshooting their BLACKBERRY mobile devices. Or so I thought. Instead, it's become a gathering point for everyone to talk about how BlackBerry sucks. Lost in the noise are the legitimate BlackBerry users who are looking for answers to their particular problems, and the chance to gather and talk about how they love their devices.

I'd be interested in hearing your perspective on why you think Android users (for the most part) are drawn to this site? Given BlackBerry's diminished market share in the consumer sphere, you'd think they wouldn't care, no?

I don't know if Android users are drawn to this site more than users of any other platform. I think there are a lot of users that use BB along with another phone (like myself) or use BBM. What you are forgetting is that this is just one sub-forum in a very large forum. This is a general discussion area. Every phone has a sub forum where you can get answers to your questions and discuss device specific things. Device related questions are moved to their respectful forum as soon as a mod gets a hold of it anyway.

It's general discussion, not BB worship discussion, where you can talk about good and bad and differences in OS's etc. I don't take anything personally, but some people do and that's usually when a problem arises. In a general discussion area it's always been a place to discuss whatever you want, even if BB isn't the only device you use. I mean why not? It's supposed to be somewhat fun and for whatever reason some people treat it like a member of their family has been insulted if the slightest thing is about a device that doesn't praise it as the greatest mobile device ever created.

[donnation]

BB worship discussion, really? Can you send me a link on this site where that actually happens?

As you said, "it's supposed to be somewhat fun". Be honest for a minute, when was the last time there was a "fun" thread on this site when BlackBerry users could trade stories without having some Arsehole (not you) interfere?

You say you use another Phone? What platform? Send me a link to your favourite site that uses your platform and I can browse the forums and we can compare notes. As for BB Worship, I have to remember that, lol. That's never happened on this site since I joined. Not that I'm THAT attached to BlackBerry, but oh man, that's pretty funny of you to say that. Thanks for the laugh.

In case you haven't noticed, CrackBerry is about to be folded into the "Mobile Nations" family where Android, Windows Phone, iPhone and BlackBerry will magically all meld together into one big happy family.

NO MORE BlackBerry site, just Mobile Nations. Get it, son? Maybe you can enjoy talking about BlackBerry with other users when that happens. I won't be there, but I'm sure there are at least 9 BlackBerry Users​ who might still be around. Enjoy.

Thanks for the lesson boy. Understand sarcasm. You are taking what I said literally. Of course there isn't a BB worship forum. In the little over a year since you've been here there have been plenty of fun threads. They are all fun and at the end of the day I think that if even myself and anyone I've sparred with on here regularly could sit down and have a beer and laugh about this stuff. It's just phone talk and nothing more. No one is solving world hunger or curing cancer. Maybe don't take it so seriously and you'll have more fun.

Also, Crackberry has been a part of mobile nations for a while now. Kevin runs all of it and is the one that formed it. If that's too much for you to handle better run for the hills!!

[Gnomesane]

Thanks for the lesson boy. Understand sarcasm. You are taking what I said literally. Of course there isn't a BB worship forum. In the little over a year since you've been here there have been plenty of fun threads. They are all fun and at the end of the day I think that if even myself and anyone I've sparred with on here regularly could sit down and have a beer and laugh about this stuff. It's just phone talk and nothing more. No one is solving world hunger or curing cancer. Maybe don't take it so seriously and you'll have more fun.

You called me Boy? Nice.

How old are you? PM me, let's compare notes, BOY.

I do have a sense of humour, a pretty good one, imo. You're not tickling it so far.

[donnation]

You called me Boy? Nice.

How old are you? PM me, let's compare notes, BOY.

I do have a sense of humour, a pretty good one, imo. You're not tickling it so far.

Why not, you called me son. And if you didn't read my edit on my last post Crackberry has been a part of mobile nations for a long while now.

[Gnomesane]

Why not, you called me son. And if you didn't read my edit on my last post Crackberry has been a part of mobile nations for a long while now.

Ok, sounds good. To be honest, I don't care either way. Let's call it a night, and part ways amicably.

[donnation]

Ok, sounds good. To be honest, I don't care either way. Let's call it a night, and part ways amicably.

Agreed. No hard feelings and good debate. Cheers.

[Gnomesane]

Agreed. No hard feelings and good debate. Cheers.

Good stuff. No hard feelings here either.

[wincyUt]

Phew!!! Finally I'm very happy that both of you have agreed to disagree. It's only a thread and it ain't worth stressing.

Posted via CB10

[pantlesspenguin]

Why did you reply to me? No offense, but I could care less if you use BlackBerry or Android, or any other platform.

My point was that I think CrackBerry is supposed to be a BLACKBERRY site first and foremost. NOT a site for former BlackBerry users, Android users, iPhone users, or Windows Phone users...

I could care less about the other sites, with all due respect to the rest of Mobile Nations. I've read posts from Rene Ritchie and Daniel Rubino and they both seem like great guys, and I have a ton of respect for their opinions. Rene Ritchie has guest posted on CrackBerry and hosted interviews, for example, and he has always been a model of neutrality when it came to platforms, not to mention a great personality. This isn't about competing platforms or their respective merits. And apparently there's 9 other guys at Android that are pretty good... So I've heard from Phil and Jerry. Models of behaviour, btw.

That's not the point.

I'm so tired of hearing from "former" BlackBerry users PP. I own three Android devices and an iPhone 4S in addition to my Z10.

Oddly enough, I don't use CrackBerry as my bully pulpit to ***** about my complaints with Android and iPhone and how they could improve upon their existing product. ODDLY ENOUGH, I go to XDA-Developers (for Android) and Cult of Mac (for iPhone) to discuss. I KNOW, I could talk about it on CrackBerry since I'm a BlackBerry user as well, but it would just seem... silly. And pointless, considering that it's a BlackBerry site.

Sorry, but it continues to strike me as odd that non-BlackBerry users continue to post on this site about the merits of other platforms. I see no reason for it.

I was just answering the question you posed. To be fair, I'm not a "former" BB user either. And those that I see offering criticism in BB's direction aren't necessarily former users as well. There's nothing in the rules that says that everyone who tries BB10/BBOS MUST like it. Crackberry is a BlackBerry fan site, yes. But it's also a DISCUSSION site. People should have the freedom to express their honest opinions without being labeled as bullies or trolls, unless those distinctions are warranted (personal attacks, excessive hyperbole, etc). It saddens when I see new people come to CB with a question/complaint about their new BB device and they get automatically labeled as trolls and bashed horribly. It's like people can't even ask for help here anymore because everyone is so defensive about their device!

You may not use CB as a "bully pulpit" to complain about Android and iPhone, but unfortunately others don't grant the same consideration. And that's where the discussion of other platforms stem from. People spout off misinformation about other platforms, others step in to correct or give a differing opinion, and then it all snowballs from there. You may not like former users of BB or people that don't use BB at all sharing their opinions of BB, but why is it OK BB-only users spout off misinformation of those other platforms? Is it OK because this is a BB site and somehow they think they're defending BlackBerry?

Anyway, those are just my thoughts.

[--TommesJay--]

People spout off misinformation about other platforms,...

Just curious: is it (among others) me you mean? Did I spout misinformation about Android in this thread? Is "Android messaging is cluttered" a misinformation? Cause this was the point where you stepped in to "educate" me on things about Android I already knew before.

[MADBRADNYC]

Selective memory, much???
Please re-read post #128 and 134.
And what brought them about....
Think about stating opinion as fact...

So how is the hub much different from this?

Just the fact that it's a vertical list vs icons? And that's just how I have mine set up. There are endless configurations.

I'm not saying that either way is "better" than the other. I obviously like both. But to say the BB way is "not cluttered" compared to the other operating systems just isn't true. They're just DIFFERENT and there's nothing wrong with that.

[pantlesspenguin]

Selective memory, much???
Please re-read post #128 and 134.
And what brought them about....
Think about stating opinion as fact...

You're right, but the bolded part is still true. Just because one finds something cluttered doesn't make it so. That's a difference of opinion. In my opinion the "clutter" that he sees is extra functionality. He may not see a need for that stuff, but the "clutter" are things I use every day. I'm always adjusting the brightness and volume depending on my surroundings. I turn up the brightness during breaks at work when I go outside and walk around the building, then I turn it back down when I go back inside. Same when I go to school and walk around campus before it's time for class. I keep my volume on vibrate at work, normal at home or when I'm out and about, and silent at the gym so alerts don't feed into my earbuds. TO ME, having those toggles in my notification tray save a lot of time. He obviously has different priorities, and there's nothing wrong with that, either. Like I said, it's just a different way of doing things.

[--TommesJay--]

You're right, but the bolded part is still true. Just because one finds something cluttered doesn't make it so. That's a difference of opinion. In my opinion the "clutter" that he sees is extra functionality. He may not see a need for that stuff, but the "clutter" are things I use every day. I'm always adjusting the brightness and volume depending on my surroundings. I turn up the brightness during breaks at work when I go outside and walk around the building, then I turn it back down when I go back inside. Same when I go to school and walk around campus before it's time for class. I keep my volume on vibrate at work, normal at home or when I'm out and about, and silent at the gym so alerts don't feed into my earbuds. TO ME, having those toggles in my notification tray save a lot of time. He obviously has different priorities, and there's nothing wrong with that, either. Like I said, it's just a different way of doing things.

Actually I have very similar priorities and do similar stuff concerning screen brightness adjustment or profile switching throughout the day. It's just that with BB10 I don't have all those switches and toggles in one place with my notifications.

[bbq10l]

I mean - listen - I love threads like this - It's great fun to be a fan of something, whether it's a sports team or a tech company, or even a politician that you feel represents your beliefs positively. But let's all not fool ourselves: Apple and Samsung make terrific devices too. We're living in this crazy, futuristic age which is actually REAL, actually our present. We have technology that was hundreds of years off in Star Trek's portrayal of the future.
I think a lot of us have already adjusted to the concept of BB as a cool outsider to the consumer game. I'm finding I prefer it this way, and I'd like to think I'm honest enough to understand that there are psychological reasons for this; I am the kind of person who enjoys laughing at the crowd in whatever mirthful, Nietzsche-esque way is possible. Not having an iPhone, which has become as ubiquitous as smoking cigarettes in the 50's, is almost part of my identity now (albeit vaguely). Using something like BlackBerry is too. I want BB to be a huge success, but the idea of every 12 year old girl with braces desiring one is somehow unappealing. iPhone is as standard to those girls as Katy Perry or One Direction. So let's not keep this notion going that consumer dominance is even desirable anymore, let alone possible (it isnt). The cell phone game for consumer has become status-oriented, identity based, and entertainment-leaning just like many other aspects of consumerdom. Blackberry's fall was the end of an era I think that is not coming back.

Posted via CB10

I'm sorry you partially define your identity by your phone. You must have felt very bad about yourself when everyone wanted and had one, including all those 12 year old girls.

Posted via CB10

[Gnomesane]

I was just answering the question you posed. To be fair, I'm not a "former" BB user either. And those that I see offering criticism in BB's direction aren't necessarily former users as well. There's nothing in the rules that says that everyone who tries BB10/BBOS MUST like it. Crackberry is a BlackBerry fan site, yes. But it's also a DISCUSSION site. People should have the freedom to express their honest opinions without being labeled as bullies or trolls, unless those distinctions are warranted (personal attacks, excessive hyperbole, etc). It saddens when I see new people come to CB with a question/complaint about their new BB device and they get automatically labeled as trolls and bashed horribly. It's like people can't even ask for help here anymore because everyone is so defensive about their device!

You may not use CB as a "bully pulpit" to complain about Android and iPhone, but unfortunately others don't grant the same consideration. And that's where the discussion of other platforms stem from. People spout off misinformation about other platforms, others step in to correct or give a differing opinion, and then it all snowballs from there. You may not like former users of BB or people that don't use BB at all sharing their opinions of BB, but why is it OK BB-only users spout off misinformation of those other platforms? Is it OK because this is a BB site and somehow they think they're defending BlackBerry?

Anyway, those are just my thoughts.

First of all, this is just a debate, and I respect your opinion and I hope you feel the same way! Just to be clear!

Having said that, Pantless, let's review...

CrackBerry SHOULD be a bully pulpit for BlackBerry, and CrackBerry SHOULD be excused for allowing its members to be Pro-BlackBerry at the expense of iPhone, Android and Windows phone, no? To put it another way, shouldn't Android Central be pro-Android at the expense of the others? Or iMore be pro-iPhone? Isn't it a no brainer?

Beyond that BlackBerry is unique in that they are the only company that fighting for their survival... I don't know if you would agree with me, but personally I believe that it's not the same thing to attack BlackBerry vs Apple, Google or Microsoft. BlackBerry is the only company that is currently on the brink of extinction....

Do you see the difference? Not that I think BlackBerry needs a handicap when it comes to software. As I said, I also use iOS and Android and I definitely prefer BlackBerry 10. I guess I'm more vocal because I'm concerned that all of the negative posts could actually make a difference when it comes to the future of BlackBerry whereas we could post negatively about Android and Apple on this forum all day and it wouldn't matter.

Do you see the difference?

[Kaustubh Gohokar]

BlackBerry may not be in the consumer device league, but it's the best consumer device anyone can get.
This league problem is happening only because of apple and samsung's deep**** marketing...

Posted via CB10