[Joao Oliveira]

We know that BBs are great phones, durable, the new BB10 is great or even better than the competition when it comes to functionality and ease of use... So why can't other people see that?

I think is quite easy...
In my opinion, you only start to see BB's handset value after some prolonged use, and start to discover all the great hidden features...

The problem is, for new people, that go to a store, or try a friend's phone, they will only use it for a few seconds or minutes, there's only so much information they can absorb, the that information isn't very good. One fo those factors for me is the besel size wich I find pretty poor for 2013 standards...

Look at this pic... The Q10 has bigger besel than the now bit old 9900... and that looks cheap, and IMO, not aceptable...




The Z10 is even worse... Is the newer phone in this pic, but ask someone "non-techy", and most will tell that the phone in the middle seems older than the others...


And BB10 does also need a more modern look (or at least a option for it), because it isn't any more striking to look at than the handset, especialy compared to the competition...

These are key factors, and people that don't know crap about phones, will perceive this kind of stuff... and the company realy has to adress this issue if want to keep alive...

Don't get me wrong, everything I did talk now is pretty much useless.... 2mm less besel, and pretier OS are pretty much useless to the phone usage, but A LOT of people do care about that without even noticing, is like instinct...

Looks at Samsung phones... They are made of crapy plastic, they run slugish android, but they get that "wow" factor, their screens seem big and optimized, using most of the phone's surface, and have som show off effects in their OS, making them look very modern and cool.... and I hate samsung phones....

So, Blackberry realy needs to step up the show off factor... because BB handsets, "look" overpriced, and not atractive for the "non-tech" guy wich is 90% of the people or more...

The Z30 is way better, but still a bit bulky, but for sure going in the right direction...

Do you agree with me?

(sorry for english errors, I'm portuguese, so english is not my native language)

[Joao Oliveira]

This is what I mean... I did photoshop these 2 phones so that you can see that the besel itself makes a bunch of difference in the phone looks

[propeller10]

s4 with the 5 inch display is almost same size as z10. woah!

The z10 does feel a bit over sized. But it doesn't bother me that much.

[fanisk]

Agreed with you!!

Sent from my Z 30

[johnnyuk]

BB10 was six months late, it was supposed to launch in the summer of 2012, which meant that the design of the Z10 was locked down far earlier than most handsets before it actually went in to production. That resulted in it having the look of touch screen phones from late 2011 and early 2012, and a conservative design of that era at that.

The Porsche Design phone is, stupidly, based on that already old Z10 phone design so inherits its design flaws.

The Q10 has a poor design choice in that it has the BlackBerry logo above the screen instead of above the keyboard as it is on the Q5. Above the keyboard creates a natural swipe space for the touch sensitive screen frame and pushes the screen up reducing the size of the top of the phone.

Hopefully all Q phones to come will have the BlackBerry logo/touch sensitive swipe space above the keyboard.

In your Photoshopped photos you haven't left space for the sensors and camera at the top of the phone or much space for the touch sensitive screen frame at the bottom. I do agree that BB10 phones should have screens that go "to the edge" on either side though as it doesn't make use of touch sensitive swiping in to the screen from the sides like the PlayBook did so there's no need for a gap.

Posted via CB10

[Joao Oliveira]

BB10 was six months late, it was supposed to launch in the summer of 2012, which meant that the design of the Z10 was locked down far earlier than most handsets before it actually went in to production. That resulted in it having the look of touch screen phones from late 2011 and early 2012, and a conservative design of that era at that.

The Porsche Design phone is, stupidly, based on that already old Z10 phone design so inherits its design flaws.

The Q10 has a poor design choice in that it has the BlackBerry logo above the screen instead of above the keyboard as it is on the Q5. Above the keyboard creates a natural swipe space for the touch sensitive screen frame and pushes the screen up reducing the size of the top of the phone.

Hopefully all Q phones to come will have the BlackBerry logo/touch sensitive swipe space above the keyboard.

In your Photoshopped photos you haven't left space for the sensors and camera at the top of the phone or much space for the touch sensitive screen frame at the bottom. I do agree that BB10 phones should have screens that go "to the edge" on either side though as it doesn't make use of touch sensitive swiping in to the screen from the sides like the PlayBook did so there's no need for a gap.

Posted via CB10

Of course the camera would have to be drilled a hole in the metal where it says porsche.... And the besel in the new S4 is almost as thin as the photoshops I did... like I said, BB to be premium has to do something groundbreaking

[gravymonster]

I do agree that to appreciate what makes BlackBerry better you have to use one for a while. I've thought that since the curve and it's still true now. It's little nuances that just make them a joy to use. But if you asked me off the top of my head why they are better I'd have a hard time coming up with a "sales pitch".

Posted via CB10

[teeuwen]

It's simple.

The bezel is part of the navigation. Have you seen the playbook before? Notice how the Blackberry Z10 also has no buttons on the front of the phone.

Got to love being blackberry, we have arguments against them for having a keyboard phone with buttons and arguments against them for having a phone with no buttons at all (on the front of the phone obviously....) . I would argue the button approach of both the Samsung and the iPhone are dated.

[johnnyuk]

Of course the camera would have to be drilled a hole in the metal where it says porsche.... And the besel in the new S4 is almost as thin as the photoshops I did... like I said, BB to be premium has to do something groundbreaking

The packaging of the internals would be way to tight for BlackBerry to be able to do it, they are not world leaders in handset design and manufacturing.

Samsung, Sony, Apple or Nokia (Microsoft) could do it with their vast resources, but not BlackBerry any more. That's why the handsets are the way they are, flawed designs. And that's why the handset side of the business is losing them so much money.

You're right that to stand out by looking modern and futuristic their premium handsets need to be thinner, lighter, screens to the edge just like their rivals, but they can't afford to do it. They are instead selling mid range hardware at premium prices and hoping the BB10 user experience will make up for it. So far it isn't working.

Posted via CB10

[johnnyuk]

It's simple.

The bezel is part of the navigation. Have you seen the playbook before? Notice how the Blackberry Z10 also has no buttons on the front of the phone.

The bezels don't have to be as chunky as the Z10 as the Z30 proves.

The sides of the sceen don't need a bezel at all unlike the PlayBook as the BB10 gestures don't use them. I sometimes wish they'd tried, I miss switching between apps by swiping in from the sides on PlayBook.

Posted via CB10

[Joao Oliveira]

It's simple.

The bezel is part of the navigation. Have you seen the playbook before? Notice how the Blackberry Z10 also has no buttons on the front of the phone.

Got to love being blackberry, we have arguments against them for having a keyboard phone with buttons and arguments against them for having a phone with no buttons at all (on the front of the phone obviously....) . I would argue the button approach of both the Samsung and the iPhone are dated.

WP8 is also gesture based pretty much like BB10 and it doesnt need all that besel...
I agree, but buttons are usefull, besel is not, except for tablets that need besel to be more confortable to hold...

I'm talking only about the market... I own a 9900, and I would never buy a phone without keyboard, because I do intesive texting...

[Joao Oliveira]

The packaging of the internals would be way to tight for BlackBerry to be able to do it, they are not world leaders in handset design and manufacturing.

Samsung, Sony, Apple or Nokia (Microsoft) could do it with their vast resources, but not BlackBerry any more. That's why the handsets are the way they are, flawed designs. And that's why the handset side of the business is losing them so much money.

You're right that to stand out by looking modern and futuristic their premium handsets need to be thinner, lighter, screens to the edge just like their rivals, but they can't afford to do it. They are instead selling mid range hardware at premium prices and hoping the BB10 user experience will make up for it. So far it isn't working.

Posted via CB10

That's not 100% true mate... but not 100% false either...

look, this is a BQ Aquaris 5... you probably never heard of it, because is spanish, and I don't know if it sell anywere else other than portugal and spain... maybe some places in europe... It costs 200 euros unlocked to any carrier (a Q10 costs 760 euros here).... it has:
-quad core processor
-GPS
-5 inch display (you can get 4,5 inch by 180 euros), dual SIM,
-android 4.2
-Compass
-gyroscope
-8MP camera

Look how sleek it is... is made by very small spanish company.... I think BB could do better

[Meaty123]

So true... they could have made a smaller phone with the same size ... the "BlackBerry" logo could have been a bit smaller or moved down by making the top and bottom plastic part smaller as well .. but like someone mentioned, the hardware is locked down and is late of release ... Maybe the next gen Z10 would have smaller physical size and same screen or bigger screen and same physical size... Time will tell...

[hrim5493]

I agree with a lot of the points people have been making but I LOVE the design and feel and handle of my Q10...the glassweave fits so comfortably in my hands

[Joao Oliveira]

I agree with a lot of the points people have been making but I LOVE the design and feel and handle of my Q10...the glassweave fits so comfortably in my hands

True... It will probably be my next phone in the start of the year, because like I said, BB phones might not be the most atractive to the eye, but they are a joy to use.... But the market as it is today, the looks sell.... The iphone is on of the worst phones to hold, is very slipery and edgy, but it sells...

The only phone I consider to change my 9900 is the Q10, I do need that keyboard, I don't give a sh*t about the looks of the phone... but I want BB to survive, and to survive it has to build good looking phones, because most people aren't like me...

[Fnen90]

Second and third impresiones too!

[Bbnivende]

Maybe BlackBerry needs to do a Nexus and have LG make their all touch devices but with traditional BlackBerry styling touches . BlackBerry might retain the QWERTY side.

My classic comparison is the Z10 vs the Moto X:

Moto X
129.3 x 65.3 x 10.4 mm (5.09 x 2.57 x 0.41 in)
Weight 130 g (4.59 oz)
DISPLAY Type AMOLED capacitive touchscreen, 16M colors
Size 720 x 1280 pixels, 4.7 inches

Z10

130 x 65.6 x 9 mm (5.12 x 2.58 x 0.35 in)
Weight 137.5 g (4.83 oz)
DISPLAY Type Capacitive touchscreen, 16M colors
Size 768 x 1280 pixels, 4.2 inches

The Moto X has a 1/2 inch bigger screen for free !

If you want to talk about first in store impressions - the Demo mode just is confusing and would I am sure turn off prospective buyers. When I pick up a Iphone in the store they are always ready , willing and able.

In the USA though it is very difficult to find a working BlackBerry to test. The carriers seem to have given up and moved on.

[Joao Oliveira]

Great point right there

[BB10user07]

This is what I mean... I did photoshop these 2 phones so that you can see that the besel itself makes a bunch of difference in the phone looks

http://imageshack.us/a/img17/1597/hzr0.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img600/6265/c1ev.jpg

Holy smokes..

Posted via CB10

[johnnyuk]

That's not 100% true mate... but not 100% false either...

look, this is a BQ Aquaris 5... you probably never heard of it, because is spanish, and I don't know if it sell anywere else other than portugal and spain... maybe some places in europe... It costs 200 euros unlocked to any carrier (a Q10 costs 760 euros here).... it has:
-quad core processor
-GPS
-5 inch display (you can get 4,5 inch by 180 euros), dual SIM,
-android 4.2
-Compass
-gyroscope
-8MP camera

Look how sleek it is... is made by very small spanish company.... I think BB could do better
https://static-bqreaders.s3.amazonaw...uaris-5-05.jpg

Designed in Spain, but manufactured in China, that's how they've achieved it:

http://gcmobi.eu/ChinaMobilePhones/m...nes-from-china

To be honest with you that small Spanish company is probably more efficient right now than the soon to be small Canadian company. BlackBerry's handset business is behind the rest of the world in a lot of respects. Outsourcing to China might fix a few things but no western government or company would ever trust the phone with their data.

Posted via CB10

[Joao Oliveira]

Designed in Spain, but manufactured in China, that's how they've achieved it:

Mobile Phones from China - Mobile Phones

To be honest with you that small Spanish company is probably more efficient right now than the soon to be small Canadian company. BlackBerry's handset business is behind the rest of the world in a lot of respects. Outsourcing to China might fix a few things but no western government or company would ever trust the phone with their data.

Posted via CB10

BBs are madi in mexico, and labour there is super cheap aswell...
Check this article:
UPDATE 1-Mexico hourly wages now lower than China's-study | Reuters

Nokia used to make phones in finland, wich is on of the most expensive countrys, and they didn't make sub par phones... they were actualy very good... don't know where they are made now since microsoft bought nokia

[cooleddie]

They also need to change the default background picture. Something bright, clean and beautiful.

Posted via CB10

[Joao Oliveira]

True... A few weeks back, I was checking out the phones, and the Z10 was side to side with the HTC One... and I thought... damn, Z10 screen sucks compared to the Z10. But then I opened up a picture, and I realized that the HTC gave the impression that it was better because the background was brighter and more colorfull, the Z10 with a photo open looked prety much as good despite being lower in resolution, but the colors and blacks were very nice in both

[2stix]

Change the horrible black/blue/purple backgrounds and the shading around the icons would be a great start. Do grocery stores put out badly bruised fruit at premium prices?

[Dirkmyer]

Change the horrible black/blue/purple backgrounds and the shading around the icons would be a great start. Do grocery stores put out badly bruised fruit at premium prices?

More accurately, do grocery stores put out premium fruit covered in mud.

I 100% agree with this thread. Tweak the hardware to make it more competitive, potentially outsourcing aspects (not the full production) of the phones to save costs, and alter the default OS (including demo mode) to become more appealing.

I think it may be in BlackBerry's interest to create a fully integrated booth that carriers can just plop in their stores... Have it permanently charging the phones, and even have a (good) ad running on a screen behind the phones..