08-03-14 07:05 PM
52 123
tools
  1. shupor's Avatar
    If BlackBerry intends to stay in the consumer space in North America, they are going to need to do a lot of work improving their carrier relationships.

    Just to give an idea of my loyalty to the platform and my tech-know-how, i have used a Curve 8900, Bold 9000, Bold 9700 and 9780, Bold 9900 ,bought Playbook on release date, bought Z10 on release date, used a Z30 and planned to buy a Passport as soon as it becomes available. I wrote a few Legacy OS themes and apps and even 2 apps that i wrote in Cascades all currently published in app world.I am also able to repair most household and computing electronics that have software and hardware issues so for me to give up on a repair, it often means it is beyond repair or just won't be cost effective making the repairs.

    I absolutely love the platform and even have a few acquaintances that call me Mr Blackberry but it has come to a point where it is impossible for me to continue with BB given the current state of carrier relations.

    Here is why: My most recent phone, which happened to be the same Z10 i purchased on release date ,with a fully charged battery just powered off while i was in the middle of a task. To cut a long story short , it has been over 24 hours and the phone still has not powered on.

    I have a side business that i absolutely cannot do without the use of the smartphone and after coming to the realization that my Z10 is beyond repair, i had to make a decision bearing in mind that my carrier no longer stocks BB phones and the few US carriers that do, don't carry stock in their stores.

    Switching carriers just to get a BB10 phone was out of the question so i had to choose between ordering directly from ShopBlackBerry and putting my business on hold, given the ridiculously long time Digital River takes to deliver products, or walk into my T-Mobile store and walk out with an Android or iOS phone on the spot.

    If i had a carrier that still stocked BB10 phones, it would still be a viable option as long as i have the extended warranty that delivers a replacement device within 24 hours. I kinda kicked myself a bit cos i cancelled the extended warranty on my Z10 prior to the incident but at the time i cancelled, the co-payment on filing a claim was almost the same amount of money i would use to buy a brand new Z10 . It just didn't seem like a financially sound decision paying a premium for insurance only to get a used replacement for about the same cost as a brand new one.

    I ended up with a Samsung Galaxy S5 that i am not a fan of (yet) and it had me wondering how many people set out to purchase a BB10 device but end up with something else simply because they need their phone 'NOW', lets not even get started on the sales people who will discourage you from getting a BB to begin with. Once such people leave the platform, it will be even harder for those people to come back as Android and iOS are rich platform that will very easily suck you into their ecosystem.

    Prior to getting the S5, i had also read on Crackberry that Android apps perform better on BB10 than on an actual Android phone.but i can tell you authoritatively that it is a bold faced lie. I use the same 7 apps that i used on BB10 on the S5 and the fluidity doesn't even come close. Android apps work better on Android phones period!!

    Hoping things improve with the carriers but until then i would rather live with the Android experience knowing i have product support vs going back to BB10.

    Who knows, things may very well improve in time for the release of the Passport and you can guess who will be picking one up
    sentimentGX4 likes this.
    07-31-14 12:32 PM
  2. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    There are several factors into what needs to be done to improve relations with the carriers. But IMHO, if BBRY would significantly relax the minimum volume of device orders, that would go a long way. Carriers simply don't like to have a minimum order being more than they can reliably sell within a given time frame. Relax that minimum, and once BB devices start to sell better to the point that the carriers are ordering more of them, then they (BBRY) will have enough leverage to increase it again.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
    07-31-14 01:01 PM
  3. early2bed's Avatar
    Nothing improves carrier relationships more than selling a lot of phones or at least having people come in and ask for the phones. Nothing makes them worse than having customers stop buying them. Actually, having customers buy them and return them is probably worse.

    Also, if you are wanting these carriers to stock the phones then you are talking about a lot of phones. AT&T has 16,000 retail locations in the US. Verizon probably has the same.
    07-31-14 01:11 PM
  4. Oglon3r's Avatar
    I agree with you on the carrier relationship and you won't be the first or last to end up walking out of the store with another phone. Also the app situation has been corrected with kitkat android OS, android apps do run better in blackberry on jelly bean and previous android flavors.
    Also my rationale has always been good things come to those who wait and have patience Mr. Blackberry. Lol

    You are talking about about financially sound decisions, well I hope you realize you are now about 650$ dollars on the red if you didn't renewed your contract and you will be paying them even after the phone is soundly obsolete in two years... if you pay it as scheduled.

    You see you could've tried ebay for another blackberry or even for the same device for much much cheaper. I got my z30 from ebay thanks to the billmelater program. 6 months to pay and no interest for 530$. Ended up making comfortable payments of 90$ for six months. It took me 2 days to wait for my device from Canada and during those 2 days I used an android blaze 4g from tmobile. Yep, I'm with the least Blackberry friendly carrier of then all. Oh well each to their own means I guess. Enjoy your new device and hope to see you back to berry soon.

    Posted via z30 STA100-5 the only high end business device on the market
    shupor and EchuOkan1 like this.
    07-31-14 01:16 PM
  5. raino's Avatar
    Nothing improves carrier relationships more than selling a lot of phones or at least having people come in and ask for the phones. Nothing makes them worse than having customers stop buying them. Actually, having customers buy them and return them is probably worse.
    Maybe as part of carrier relationships, carriers should not dissuade people from buying BBs either. After all, a relationship is a two way street, right?
    07-31-14 01:16 PM
  6. vtpmt81's Avatar
    Pretty much summed up well by DenverRalphy and early2bed.

    BlackBerry needs to let carriers buy smaller amounts of devices and then needs to create a product that people want to buy. You might think that the passport is ugly or awkward - but it is definitely interesting. Android and Apple have a leg up on touchscreen devices - BlackBerry needs to find a way to make keyboard devices interesting and innovative again.

    BlackBerry also needs to make 2 truly great high and low end touchscreen devices. You can't charge $500-$600 (see the Z30) for a mid range speced device no matter how well it runs. If you are going to charge $500-$600 for a device - put the latest Snapdragon/the best screen/high end camera/etc. I think BlackBerry is close with the Z3 - but I think the Z3 needs a 1080p screen. Imagine a 5" sub $300 unlocked phone with a 1080p screen, LTE, and a decent 8mp camera that costs $120 or so to build and is sold for $299.
    07-31-14 01:24 PM
  7. early2bed's Avatar
    After all, a relationship is a two way street, right?
    Not always. As George Constanza would say, one person in the relationship usually has the upper hand.

    07-31-14 01:36 PM
  8. docfreed's Avatar
    You're all forgetting one thing:
    Blackberry has no interest in a consumer relationship in the US and they have not demonstrated any evidence that in the future they want one.
    jem9777 likes this.
    07-31-14 01:47 PM
  9. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    You're all forgetting one thing:
    Blackberry has no interest in a consumer relationship in the US and they have not demonstrated any evidence that in the future they want one.
    They didn't say they have no interest in the consumer market. They stated that their "main focus" would be for Enterprise as pertains to the devices specifically built by BBRY themselves, big difference. They still want the consumer market, but contract out those devices to other OEMs (so far only Foxconn).

    They're still interested in the consumer market, as evidenced by the release of the Z3 which is obviously geared towards the consumer.


    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
    07-31-14 01:54 PM
  10. raino's Avatar
    Not always. As George Constanza would say, one person in the relationship usually has the upper hand.
    Upper hand is one thing, but if you keep making demands that are beyond reasonable, or don't hold up your end of the bargain (like putting forth a complete effort to sell devices by not, for example badmouthing the products in store, or actively recommending against them for no good stated reasons,) there is no relationship--one sided or not.
    07-31-14 01:56 PM
  11. anon(6038817)'s Avatar
    Let's be realistic about this.

    Most people do not want BlackBerry phones. If there were enough demand, carriers would stock them.

    The best thing BlackBerry can do to fix this situation (assuming they believe it is worth fixing) is to make phones that people want.
    07-31-14 02:06 PM
  12. shupor's Avatar

    You are talking about about financially sound decisions, well I hope you realize you are now about 650$ dollars on the red if you didn't renewed your contract and you will be paying them even after the phone is soundly obsolete in two years... if you pay it as scheduled.
    Agreed but i can easily earn that $660 back in less time that it would take an ebay seller to get me a replacement BlackBerry device using regular shipping. Also If the ebay phone breaks and there is no extended warranty, i am back to square one.

    Point is i need the type of carrier support where i can always walk into a store and get a replacement device within minutes or at most, 24 hours and that isn't happening with my carrier anytime soon.
    asvab7 and kbz1960 like this.
    07-31-14 02:09 PM
  13. early2bed's Avatar
    Point is i need the type of carrier support where i can always walk into a store and get a replacement device within minutes or at most, 24 hours and that isn't happening with my carrier anytime soon.
    It happens every day at your carrier - with iPhones or whatever other devices they carry.
    kbz1960 likes this.
    07-31-14 02:16 PM
  14. docfreed's Avatar
    US not! (speaking go Z3)
    07-31-14 02:18 PM
  15. cbvinh's Avatar
    There are several factors into what needs to be done to improve relations with the carriers. But IMHO, if BBRY would significantly relax the minimum volume of device orders, that would go a long way. Carriers simply don't like to have a minimum order being more than they can reliably sell within a given time frame. Relax that minimum, and once BB devices start to sell better to the point that the carriers are ordering more of them, then they (BBRY) will have enough leverage to increase it again.
    How does BlackBerry balance doing this and getting economy of scale with parts purchases? Apple signs multi-year deals with carriers for specific volumes. Not having volume will either make devices costly or lower margins. If the Enterprise market keeps up the volume, then maybe just-in-time orders for Consumers might work; otherwise, it'll hurt BlackBerry more than help.
    07-31-14 02:35 PM
  16. Oglon3r's Avatar
    Agreed but i can easily earn that $660 back in less time that it would take an ebay seller to get me a replacement BlackBerry device using regular shipping. Also If the ebay phone breaks and there is no extended warranty, i am back to square one.

    Point is i need the type of carrier support where i can always walk into a store and get a replacement device within minutes or at most, 24 hours and that isn't happening with my carrier anytime soon.
    I have wells Fargo. I pay 5$ a month for a complete device insurance. I will get a check immediately if I make the claim at one of the thousands of Wells Fargo banks. I can order the same device from the same ebay seller now for 450$ and will get it in two days. But I am obviously a more patient person Also carrier support... good luck with that I have been more successful at finding help on yahoo. I also can wait I have no problem I have a laptop and desktop and with several apps I just don't miss a call, msg or email. I mean urgency has never for me been a reason to pay premium I just don't like to get exploited like that.

    Posted via z30 STA100-5 the only high end business device on the market
    07-31-14 02:45 PM
  17. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    How does BlackBerry balance doing this and getting economy of scale with parts purchases? Apple signs multi-year deals with carriers for specific volumes. Not having volume will either make devices costly or lower margins. If the Enterprise market keeps up the volume, then maybe just-in-time orders for Consumers might work; otherwise, it'll hurt BlackBerry more than help.
    Simple. Apple has leverage. BBRY doesn't. At one time, BBRY had leverage, but those days are years gone. If for whatever reason the sales of iOS devices bottomed out, they'd have to do the same.

    Sure, lower upfront minimum purchases means lower upfront revenue... But beggars can't be choosers. As it is now, US carriers aren't carrying the devices in store at all. That's worse than the reduced requirement alternative.

    Take the whole T-Mobile fiasco from last year... Despite the public display online between Legere's antics and Chen's/BBRY's response... Regardless what happened publicly, the real issue was that T-Mobile didn't want to enter in to any guaranteed purchase order with BBRY when their contract expired, because T-Mobile was losing money on the deal.. Legere's attempts to renegotiate met with zero results, and thus his attempt at publicizing the disparity (with mixed results depending on which side you rooted for). BBRY eventually cut ties, but that wasn't because T-Mobile was being unreasonable. It was because Legere refused to renew a contract that for all intents and purposes, would cost the company money. BBRY's requirements simply didn't allow for a mutually beneficial deal/contract.

    If BBRY wants to re-emerge into the NA market, they're going to have to make some concessions.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
    07-31-14 02:57 PM
  18. raino's Avatar
    It happens every day at your carrier - with iPhones or whatever other devices they carry.
    No. That is not how it works at the carriers.

    Exchange a defective device | T-Mobile Support
    Replace a broken phone or other device - AT&T Wireless

    ^ that's two of the four largest US carriers. I can't imagine the other two giving out on the spot replacements.
    07-31-14 03:36 PM
  19. cool_beans's Avatar
    Not one of these threads again.

    Posted via CB10
    07-31-14 03:44 PM
  20. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    Not one of these threads again.

    Posted via CB10
    The OP actually managed to initiate this thread in a manner that promotes some constructive discussion. Please, please, don't try to force a derail.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
    07-31-14 03:56 PM
  21. axeman1000's Avatar
    Pretty much summed up well by DenverRalphy and early2bed.

    BlackBerry needs to let carriers buy smaller amounts of devices and then needs to create a product that people want to buy. You might think that the passport is ugly or awkward - but it is definitely interesting. Android and Apple have a leg up on touchscreen devices - BlackBerry needs to find a way to make keyboard devices interesting and innovative again.

    BlackBerry also needs to make 2 truly great high and low end touchscreen devices. You can't charge $500-$600 (see the Z30) for a mid range speced device no matter how well it runs. If you are going to charge $500-$600 for a device - put the latest Snapdragon/the best screen/high end camera/etc. I think BlackBerry is close with the Z3 - but I think the Z3 needs a 1080p screen. Imagine a 5" sub $300 unlocked phone with a 1080p screen, LTE, and a decent 8mp camera that costs $120 or so to build and is sold for $299.
    Why do that?? Apple still doesn't include nfc chips, micro sd slots, or hdmi ports and charge a arm and a leg for their phones and people buy them. It has nothing to do with the hardware, as the z30 shows by performance tests it outperforms the latest androids. It's total word of mouth making it hard, no one is willing to try BlackBerry 10 for what ever reason, cool or not or whatever and the carriers are locked into deals with the other providers to buy x amount of devices just to be able to carry them. This leaves the providers with massive stock they have no choice but to shove down customers throats just to make money back. It's foolish. BlackBerry did this with the q5 and dropped the price of the z10 and people still made fun of and didn't buy it. It's the word of mouth hurting it the most. BlackBerry needs to find a way to show what they can do, a major marketing overhaul!!!!! And fast.
    07-31-14 04:08 PM
  22. Parrillas NY's Avatar
    Agree, but not only in the United States, needs to fix its Carrier relationship in all latin america.
    07-31-14 05:23 PM
  23. shupor's Avatar
    No. That is not how it works at the carriers.

    Exchange a defective device | T-Mobile Support
    Replace a broken phone or other device - AT&T Wireless

    ^ that's two of the four largest US carriers. I can't imagine the other two giving out on the spot replacements.
    If you have the premium protection you get a replacement next business day by calling customer care and anyone who has a t-mobile account in good standing knows you can walk into a retail outlet to get an on the spot replacement; T-Mobile is notorious for bending over backwards to keep their long standing customers happy .

    In any event, this isn't solely about how fast you can get a replacement on a defective phone, it is more about how fast I can get a BlackBerry phone period and how many other die-hard BB loyals are being forced into switching platforms.


    I can walk into any retail outlet and walk out with a phone whether it be via warranty/defective replacement or outright purchase.

    They even offered me $59 for the defective Z10 which is probably as much as I could sell a used functional one .

    Posted via CrackBerry App
    07-31-14 05:37 PM
  24. SBrowne823's Avatar
    shupor, your anecdote is very true, it happened to me a couple years ago when I had my heart set on the new galaxy s2 but because of local stocks and my need for a phone right away I ended up with a bold 9900. I've been happy with Blackberry ever since and was even going to get a q5 as a secondary phone so I could learn bb10 before the Passport comes out, which would be my true upgrade. But once again local carries don't seem to want to carry the phone I want. I, like you, truly hope that Blackberry can get the Passport into the hands of customers who want it in a timely manner.
    07-31-14 06:25 PM
  25. Denise in Los Angeles's Avatar
    I look at it this way: I buy my monthly airtime from my carrier, T-Mobile. Tmo doesn't sell BlackBerrys anymore, so they can forget seeing me pay them a dime for a phone. I can buy from Ebay, Amazon, QVC, HSN, ShopHQ or BestBuy... anywhere but TMo.

    I don't own a business, so I can't speak to needing a phone replacement so badly that I would have to switch platforms, but I have 4 working BlackBerrys at home that I could switch to if I was faced with a phone crisis, so I'm not at the mercy of a carrier.

    Its my backup plan.
    07-31-14 07:13 PM
52 123

Similar Threads

  1. Why Is BBM Still Making Sound In Vibrate Only Mode?
    By fromdus2k in forum BBM on Windows Phone
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 09-28-14, 01:32 PM
  2. Seeking alpha Article - Was Apple Spooked By The BlackBerry Passport
    By IJKBB10 in forum General BlackBerry Discussion
    Replies: 104
    Last Post: 08-12-14, 03:41 PM
  3. Amazed by BlackBerry durability
    By Aleij Barb in forum BlackBerry Z10
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 08-02-14, 02:00 AM
  4. I can't log into Facebook in the internet browser?
    By CrackBerry Question in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-01-14, 03:21 PM
  5. Updated BlackBerry World
    By officialpitt in forum BlackBerry 10 Apps
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-01-14, 12:43 PM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD