06-13-19 09:01 PM
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  1. John Albert's Avatar
    I started this thread to open a discussion for some findings that I couldn't interpret myself, and I hope the experts in Crackberry could explain the situation here.
    Along the last few weeks, I started not to understand the future of BlackBerry Mobile and its marketing strategy. These are my findings:

    1- The USA is the most important market for BlackBerry devices for 20 years, and I doubt this has changed after I couldn't find sales numbers data that were used to be published by BlackBerry Limited financial sheet every fiscal quarter. During 2017 Q3, USA formed 60% of BlackBerry handhelds sold worldwide. However, the availability of BB phones in this region is getting ridiculous.
    2- Key2 Red Edition has discontinued from BestBuy and Amazon after only two weeks of its release.
    3- Key2 (all colors) has discontinued from BestBuy and only the Black version is still available at Amazon.
    3- The newest model, Key2 LE is no longer available in Amazon channel and only available via third parties with crazy prices (over $800)
    4- Even the international version of key2 is getting very expensive day after day, and this only indicates a very limited available inventory.
    5- TCL just now remembered to release the Key2 in Philippines, Australia, Czech Republic, and Slovakia after a year of phone lunch. Why?
    6- Those regions got the entire colors collection, which is missing here in the USA. (I still don't believe they got tons of units and think only a few hundred, but still a vague point).
    7- TCL Chief Marketing Officer confirmed to one of Philippines media channels that they are developing a new BlackBerry device with a magical keyboard and probably another touch screen phone. Is this just a marketing trick or something is really coming?
    8- If they are running out of stock of Key2, does that mean the release of Key3 is imminent?
    9- If not, how could that BlackBerry Mobile department survive for another year and they are almost running out of devices stock? So, no enough revenue to keep the business alive!

    Thank you...
    whatnow00 and the_boon like this.
    06-09-19 08:19 PM
  2. Platinum_2's Avatar
    @John Albert

    1- U.S. production has all but stopped. I wouldn't expect a lush supply of Key devices going forward. This could be in preparation of a new device, but who knows for sure?

    2. Key2 Atomic was built in small numbers, though no one knows exactly. I can assure you it was indeed small since the PKB space is also small. The market for Red PKB's....even smaller.

    3. See point 1.

    4. TCL is not the only BlackBerry licensee. But, in the international markets where they sell the handsets, I would guess they may also be preparing for the release of a new device.

    5. TCL builds phones in batches it appears. I think U.S. Atomic only happened because they were simultaneously building the international handsets. Just my best guess, however.

    7. All we know is a new device model number has been released. What it represents is anyone's guess at this point.

    8. See point 7.

    9. They couldn't and would likely exit the market.
    06-09-19 09:03 PM
  3. conite's Avatar
    Didn't we discuss this before?

    The US has effectively reached saturation point with the one-year-old KEY².

    Further substantive sales require new markets.
    Mecca EL, Avenzuno and Jake2826 like this.
    06-09-19 09:49 PM
  4. Sigewif's Avatar
    The below photos are from the local Best Buy. It is where the KEY2 LE was supposed to be displayed. But it has not been displayed. The first time I was in the store looking for the KEY2 LE was April 11(see the 2nd photo). I had seen online that they had a couple in stock. The first photo below is from today. June 9, 2019.

    Today I spoke with a sales person. I asked why there was no display unit. "I really wanted to check it out and compare it with my KEYone." I said. Furthermore, there wasn't even a photo of the KEY2 LE. The description was in tiny print. He said "well we don't see many of these being sold." So I said, 'how do people even find out what the phone is like with no demo and not even a picture?" Well, he said, people do research online. He started to repeat that they don't sell many. And I repeated something about them not having any on display."

    He didn't get it or didn't want to get it. Understand that all around us were boring blinking slabs. They had sold a couple, they probably started with a couple. Then I asked about the regular KEY2. He couldn't find it on their website. I don't think he even knew it had been for sale through Best Buy at one point. BlackBerry Mobile (TCL) Ambiguous Strategy-img_20190609_1708463.jpgBlackBerry Mobile (TCL) Ambiguous Strategy-notable-00009.jpg
    John Albert and the_boon like this.
    06-09-19 10:50 PM
  5. Sigewif's Avatar
    Didn't we discuss this before?

    The US has effectively reached saturation point with the one-year-old KEY².

    Further substantive sales require new markets.
    See my post above. I think it is as much or more about most people not even knowing the phones exist. You can't call it a saturated market with the situations described above repeating themselves all over the US.
    John Albert, the_boon and RCJ28 like this.
    06-09-19 10:53 PM
  6. Munchkinguy's Avatar
    Blackberry Mobile's Instagram feed continues to be updated multiple times per week. They keep posting celebrity endorsements and things like that. This week they are having a give-away contest for the Key2 LE. Seems to me the message they are sending is that they are committed to the market.

    Focus is on the LE right now, with no more Key2s being stocked in stores.

    Posted via CB10
    06-09-19 11:06 PM
  7. conite's Avatar
    See my post above. I think it is as much or more about most people not even knowing the phones exist. You can't call it a saturated market with the situations described above repeating themselves all over the US.
    Most potential interested parties know about the device.

    Better to cater to BlackBerry fans in other markets than to engage in a multi billion dollar program to sway current iPhone and Galaxy users.
    Last edited by conite; 06-10-19 at 03:10 PM.
    06-09-19 11:14 PM
  8. Sigewif's Avatar
    Most potential interested parties know about the device.

    Better to cater to BlackBerry fans in other markets than engage in a multi billion dollar program to sway current iPhone and Galaxy users.
    It is just ridiculous to not even have a photo of it in the store where they had them for sale and have had a location in the store for 2 months with a big blank space and tiny print about the BlackBerry KEY2LE. Even a BlackBerry fan, or former fan would have breezed by it. The only reason I knew it was there is the sales person showed me where it was the first time in went in when I went in specifically looking for it. It would have cost almost 0 to put out a photo.
    John Albert likes this.
    06-09-19 11:30 PM
  9. John Albert's Avatar
    Lack of interest rather than saturation
    06-10-19 01:13 AM
  10. John Albert's Avatar
    The below photos are from the local Best Buy. It is where the KEY2 LE was supposed to be displayed. But it has not been displayed. The first time I was in the store looking for the KEY2 LE was April 11(see the 2nd photo). I had seen online that they had a couple in stock. The first photo below is from today. June 9, 2019.
    Today I spoke with a sales person. I asked why there was no display unit. "I really wanted to check it out and compare it with my KEYone." I said. Furthermore, there wasn't even a photo of the KEY2 LE. The description was in tiny print. He said "well we don't see many of these being sold." So I said, 'how do people even find out what the phone is like with no demo and not even a picture?" Well, he said, people do research online. He started to repeat that they don't sell many. And I repeated something about them not having any on display." He didn't get it or didn't want to get it. Understand that all around us were boring blinking slabs. They had sold a couple, they probably started with a couple. Then I asked about the regular KEY2. He couldn't find it on their website. I don't think he even knew it had been for sale through Best Buy at one point. Click image for larger version. 

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    That's pretty damn weird and add more doubts to my points.
    06-10-19 01:14 AM
  11. John Albert's Avatar
    Focus is on the LE right now, with no more Key2s being stocked in stores.
    Even Key2 LE is being sold out on Amazon. Still available in BestBuy.
    06-10-19 01:16 AM
  12. John Albert's Avatar
    @John Albert

    1- U.S. production has all but stopped. I wouldn't expect a lush supply of Key devices going forward. This could be in preparation of a new device, but who knows for sure?

    2. Key2 Atomic was built in small numbers, though no one knows exactly. I can assure you it was indeed small since the PKB space is also small. The market for Red PKB's....even smaller.

    3. See point 1.

    4. TCL is not the only BlackBerry licensee. But, in the international markets where they sell the handsets, I would guess they may also be preparing for the release of a new device.

    5. TCL builds phones in batches it appears. I think U.S. Atomic only happened because they were simultaneously building the international handsets. Just my best guess, however.

    7. All we know is a new device model number has been released. What it represents is anyone's guess at this point.

    8. See point 7.

    9. They couldn't and would likely exit the market.
    Thank you for that clarification, but I'm still confused by your analysis.
    Would TCL release a new device or likely to exit the market?
    06-10-19 01:17 AM
  13. Bbnivende's Avatar
    I started this thread to open a discussion for some findings that I couldn't interpret myself, and I hope the experts in Crackberry could explain the situation here.
    Along the last few weeks, I started not to understand the future of BlackBerry Mobile and its marketing strategy. These are my findings:

    1- The USA is the most important market for BlackBerry devices for 20 years, and I doubt this has changed after I couldn't find sales numbers data that were used to be published by BlackBerry Limited financial sheet every fiscal quarter. During 2017 Q3, USA formed 60% of BlackBerry handhelds sold worldwide. However, the availability of BB phones in this region is getting ridiculous.
    2- Key2 Red Edition has discontinued from BestBuy and Amazon after only two weeks of its release.
    3- Key2 (all colors) has discontinued from BestBuy and only the Black version is still available at Amazon.
    3- The newest model, Key2 LE is no longer available in Amazon channel and only available via third parties with crazy prices (over $800)
    4- Even the international version of key2 is getting very expensive day after day, and this only indicates a very limited available inventory.
    5- TCL just now remembered to release the Key2 in Philippines, Australia, Czech Republic, and Slovakia after a year of phone lunch. Why?
    6- Those regions got the entire colors collection, which is missing here in the USA. (I still don't believe they got tons of units and think only a few hundred, but still a vague point).
    7- TCL Chief Marketing Officer confirmed to one of Philippines media channels that they are developing a new BlackBerry device with a magical keyboard and probably another touch screen phone. Is this just a marketing trick or something is really coming?
    8- If they are running out of stock of Key2, does that mean the release of Key3 is imminent?
    9- If not, how could that BlackBerry Mobile department survive for another year and they are almost running out of devices stock? So, no enough revenue to keep the business alive!

    Thank you...
    Could you cite your reference to 60 percent of units Q3 2017.

    Also please cite your reference to “TCL Chief Marketing Officer confirmed to one of Philippines media channels that they are developing a new BlackBerry device with a magical keyboard and probably another touch screen phone”.
    06-10-19 02:44 AM
  14. howarmat's Avatar
    Could you cite your reference to 60 percent of units Q3 2017.

    Also please cite your reference to “TCL Chief Marketing Officer confirmed to one of Philippines media channels that they are developing a new BlackBerry device with a magical keyboard and probably another touch screen phone”.
    BB financials always listed this before
    06-10-19 08:21 AM
  15. Platinum_2's Avatar
    Thank you for that clarification, but I'm still confused by your analysis.
    Would TCL release a new device or likely to exit the market?
    Hard to say for sure. But, most folks here believe another device may be on its way. What happens after that no one knows.
    06-10-19 08:23 AM
  16. conite's Avatar
    Lack of interest rather than saturation
    In its second year of sales in the US market? Not very shocking is it?

    That's why they need to push to new markets - to get the cream there too.

    It's far easier to satisfy existing demand rather than spend your way trying to create new demand.
    06-10-19 08:26 AM
  17. Platinum_2's Avatar
    See my post above. I think it is as much or more about most people not even knowing the phones exist. You can't call it a saturated market with the situations described above repeating themselves all over the US.
    No...its saturation. All 5 people that want a PKB have one. Not convinced? Here's an exercise for you in your spare time. Find 10 people without a PKB device. This will be very easy to do. Next, trade each of them your BlackBerry KeyWhatever for 3 days and see how many say to you "that was an awesome experience and I am trading in my iSlab or Slabsung to get the this tomorrow!"

    It will never happen.
    TgeekB and the_boon like this.
    06-10-19 08:30 AM
  18. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    It's been pretty obvious since the release of the KEYone that BBMO has limited manufacturing capacity allocated to its devices, and that it prioritizes batches based on confirmed orders from channel distributors (retailers and carriers) over "building to stock" for unlocked devices.

    The benefits of this approach are 1) lower overall costs of production and 2) lower inventory risk. But one the main consequences is more stockouts and longer replenishment cycles.

    For example, for the US release of the Red KEY2, which was unlocked, the US probably had to wait until after larger fixed orders from partners had been fulfilled. Then, for Best Buy and Amazon, conservative estimates were made of demand, and a run for that number of devices was completed. Once those stocked out, the line had already switched to production for other markets, so no immediate replenishment occurred.

    Each variant has to wait for sufficient demand to build (in the form of firm orders) and then has to wait it's turn on the manufacturing line.

    Remember if margins are 10% for a product it takes sales of nine units to equal the money lost from getting stuck with a single extra device. TCL has shown it would prefer to stock out than get saddled with excess inventory.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    TgeekB and Troy Tiscareno like this.
    06-10-19 09:18 AM
  19. Sigewif's Avatar
    No...its saturation. All 5 people that want a PKB have one. Not convinced? Here's an exercise for you in your spare time. Find 10 people without a PKB device. This will be very easy to do. Next, trade each of them your BlackBerry KeyWhatever for 3 days and see how many say to you "that was an awesome experience and I am trading in my iSlab or Slabsung to get the this tomorrow!"

    It will never happen.
    You are right when you suggest will never happen because I would never trade them my BlackBerry pkb device. 3 days on a slab? You gotta be kidding me. ;-/
    the_boon likes this.
    06-10-19 09:52 AM
  20. John Albert's Avatar
    Could you cite your reference to 60 percent of units Q3 2017.

    Also please cite your reference to “TCL Chief Marketing Officer confirmed to one of Philippines media channels that they are developing a new BlackBerry device with a magical keyboard and probably another touch screen phone”.
    You first request requires a very deep digging through BlackBerry Limited financial report to explore the details, but the info is there and you could review the reports yourself.

    Here is the interview,

    https://www.yugatech.com/events-inte...7oC44TRcbiX.97
    Munchkinguy and Jake2826 like this.
    06-10-19 12:04 PM
  21. Bbnivende's Avatar
    You first request requires a very deep digging through BlackBerry Limited financial report to explore the details, but the info is there and you could review the reports yourself.

    Here is the interview,

    https://www.yugatech.com/events-inte...7oC44TRcbiX.97
    My mistake - I thought you were referring to TCL’s BB sales. BB cleared out old units in that Q and sales were only 9 million $. As far as BBmo we have no break down as to sales by country . I would say that BB sales in the USA have probably been disappointing but only BB knows.

    Thanks for the interview. It was really interesting. Everyone here should have a read.
    06-10-19 01:18 PM
  22. GadgetTravel's Avatar
    You are right when you suggest will never happen because I would never trade them my BlackBerry pkb device. 3 days on a slab? You gotta be kidding me. ;-/
    See, you have a BB already, so it is saturation.
    06-10-19 02:25 PM
  23. Sigewif's Avatar
    See, you have a BB already, so it is saturation.
    But I don't have a KEY2, I have a KEYone. I was looking for a KEY2. Just sayin' !
    Last edited by Sigewif; 06-10-19 at 04:52 PM. Reason: fixed typo
    06-10-19 03:27 PM
  24. GadgetTravel's Avatar
    But I don't have a KEY2, I have a KEYone. I was looking for a KEY2. Sust sayin' !
    I stand corrected! BB is still in luck!
    06-10-19 03:53 PM
  25. Sigewif's Avatar
    I stand corrected! BB is still in luck!
    But for the moment I can't find one.
    06-10-19 04:53 PM
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