07-30-11 09:23 AM
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  1. chiefbroski's Avatar
    I don't really see how any business would go with the iphone.

    -The iphone costs more than the average bb
    -The information on the iphone is less secure
    -You have to pay for iwork where google docs is free and you can use it with any phone
    -You get emails slower on the iphone
    -Blackberries are more durable than the iphone
    -You'll need to sign up for a larger more expensive data plan for the same amount of data if you choose the iphone
    -Signal strength was an issue with the iphone 4
    -Poorer messaging integration with the iphone

    If I was in charge, I'd go for the cheapest phone that was secure, handled email the best and was the cheapest to run. Like what else do you need for a damn business phone? Does the iphone really do it better?
    07-29-11 12:05 AM
  2. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    I don't really see how any business would go with the iphone.

    -The iphone costs more than the average bb
    -The information on the iphone is less secure
    -You have to pay for iwork where google docs is free and you can use it with any phone
    -You get emails slower on the iphone
    -Blackberries are more durable than the iphone
    -You'll need to sign up for a larger more expensive data plan for the same amount of data if you choose the iphone
    -Signal strength was an issue with the iphone 4
    -Poorer messaging integration with the iphone

    If I was in charge, I'd go for the cheapest phone that was secure, handled email the best and was the cheapest to run. Like what else do you need for a damn business phone? Does the iphone really do it better?
    BYOD is cheaper for corporations, for one.

    A lot of the other points are subjective, IMHO. Define durability? Cost is also relative. Even if the corporation was providing the iOS devices, resale value of an iPhone is another strong point.

    Now, as someone who is far from the biggest fan of IOS, I think I can objectively argue that iOS compares favorably in most business categories. For the average business user who is not guarding nuclear codes, the iPhone is becoming more compelling.
    07-29-11 12:53 AM
  3. kevinnugent's Avatar
    I don't really see how any business would go with the iphone.

    -The iphone costs more than the average bb
    -The information on the iphone is less secure
    -You have to pay for iwork where google docs is free and you can use it with any phone
    -You get emails slower on the iphone
    -Blackberries are more durable than the iphone
    -You'll need to sign up for a larger more expensive data plan for the same amount of data if you choose the iphone
    -Signal strength was an issue with the iphone 4
    -Poorer messaging integration with the iphone

    If I was in charge, I'd go for the cheapest phone that was secure, handled email the best and was the cheapest to run. Like what else do you need for a damn business phone? Does the iphone really do it better?
    I'll take these one at a time:

    - The iPhone costs exactly the same as any other handset when you have 2 or 3 thousand in your corporate plan. Nothing.

    - How is the information less secure? Where has information ever been taken off an iphone that wasn't left on without any password protection?

    - You can use Google Docs with the iphone too I think.

    - I have a corporate BES account, a BIS and Google mail on my iPhone. Mail usually arrives within seconds to each account. Sometimes slower, sometimes faster.

    - In what way? Drop tests? Acid wash? Blending? I've yet to see a phone that's completely "human" proof and there is obviously a benefit to have a cheaper plastic frame and chassis sometimes. But if I drop and break my iPhone I'll get another one. That day.

    - See my top point. Personally, I get 5GB of data for free on my $79 a month plan and $800 in calls - plus unlimited email and social media included. With the corporate account there's more included. I'd never go past 1.5gb usually. What would I need more for?

    - Signal strength in the US was an issue in some places with a certain network. We've never experienced that here, except as a natural occurance of the iPhone's popularity. It did swamp some of the smaller networks purely by the number of users. It's also a lot better now, and the carriers have adjusted. The iPhone 4 was released unlocked on nearly all of our networks.

    - Poorer messaging integration? In what way? I can get my corporate email, ISP email, gmail, hotmail, yahoo and send and receive within each account or use as a universal message system. Either way, it's easy and seamless.

    I understand why companies used RIM in the past, and agree most businesses would have thought them to be the first choice.

    Now, things are obviously changing. For the better or worse it's happening.
    07-29-11 12:57 AM
  4. chiefbroski's Avatar
    I'll take these one at a time:

    - The iPhone costs exactly the same as any other handset when you have 2 or 3 thousand in your corporate plan. Nothing.

    - How is the information less secure? Where has information ever been taken off an iphone that wasn't left on without any password protection?

    - You can use Google Docs with the iphone too I think.

    - I have a corporate BES account, a BIS and Google mail on my iPhone. Mail usually arrives within seconds to each account. Sometimes slower, sometimes faster.

    - In what way? Drop tests? Acid wash? Blending? I've yet to see a phone that's completely "human" proof and there is obviously a benefit to have a cheaper plastic frame and chassis sometimes. But if I drop and break my iPhone I'll get another one. That day.

    - See my top point. Personally, I get 5GB of data for free on my $79 a month plan and $800 in calls - plus unlimited email and social media included. With the corporate account there's more included. I'd never go past 1.5gb usually. What would I need more for?

    - Signal strength in the US was an issue in some places with a certain network. We've never experienced that here, except as a natural occurance of the iPhone's popularity. It did swamp some of the smaller networks purely by the number of users. It's also a lot better now, and the carriers have adjusted. The iPhone 4 was released unlocked on nearly all of our networks.

    - Poorer messaging integration? In what way? I can get my corporate email, ISP email, gmail, hotmail, yahoo and send and receive within each account or use as a universal message system. Either way, it's easy and seamless.

    I understand why companies used RIM in the past, and agree most businesses would have thought them to be the first choice.

    Now, things are obviously changing. For the better or worse it's happening.
    -If people bring their own devices, I guess that's true. But every single blackberry today is cheaper or the same price as the iphone 4 right now.

    -FIPS compliant must mean something. And BES administration has quite a bit of control over data so they can wipe stuff and oversee security easily.

    -Yes, I think you can. I'm just saying Docs to go is free. iWork is not. You can share your documents you have created/edited on a blackberry for free. iWork costs money. BUT I guess the iphone could use an online document suite for free...

    -I guess its fast on the iphone too. I didn't know the iphone had push email.

    -I think its safe to say that a blackberry is more resistant to falls and scrapes and most daily abuse than the iphone. Correct me if I'm wrong. Most people don't like to spend hundreds of dollars on a new phone if they drop it once from 4 feet. I can safely say that I can drop my Storm from 4 feet and the screen will not break.

    -I pay 50 bucks for a 500mb data plan and everything else. I'm saving money. Corporate plans may be different, I don't know but if anything a 500mb plan is sufficient for a work blackberry, maybe not an iphone.

    -See Antennagate. Although this is a problem with any of the other iphones or probably future iphones. I know the bumper seems to fix this....I'm just saying....

    -I can use BBM and form groups, make lists send pictures and have everyone edit them and everything. I don't think I need to outline bbm's strengths here. BBM is now integrated in apps too.

    I can also see why the iphone seems like it can do a good job. I have nothing against the iphone, it just doesn't seem like the best tool for the job. I just find that a cheap older BB would be perfect due to its lower price.

    I feel like the only feature the iphone is using over BB is its elegance and because its in style. Blackberries are seen as being outdated and uncool now largely because they are going out of style (even if they actually are). I think many people are discounting the things Blackberry does right and the number of people that like the great physical keyboard.
    07-29-11 01:47 AM
  5. kevinnugent's Avatar
    I think many people are discounting the things Blackberry does right and the number of people that like the great physical keyboard.
    Personally, I think the 9930 will fix a lot of the "oldness" of the RIM offerings. It's one sexy mofo of a phone.

    (But I temper that with one caveat - I want Personal Hotspot. If it ain't on, it ain't on!).
    Last edited by kevinnugent; 07-29-11 at 01:59 AM.
    07-29-11 01:51 AM
  6. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    The Problem is that as blackberry users we just take it.

    We don't call and ask why we don't have an app, we don't avoid services that ignore us, we just grin and move on.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I did call Netflix and request a BlackBerry app. They told me that it needs a work-around, due to BIS. Their claim was that BIS servers are in Canada, so US customers would not be able to get content licensed for the US.

    It sounds like they just aren't interested.
    07-29-11 02:27 AM
  7. dkonigs's Avatar
    I did call Netflix and request a BlackBerry app. They told me that it needs a work-around, due to BIS. Their claim was that BIS servers are in Canada, so US customers would not be able to get content licensed for the US.

    It sounds like they just aren't interested.
    Agreed. Any real BlackBerry developer knows that you don't use BIS to stream actual bulk content. You do that over WiFi or Carrier TCP (the normal data plan). For streaming media applications, BIS-B is only used as a reliable control channel.
    07-29-11 06:23 AM
  8. calaviqpfza4's Avatar
    -FIPS compliant must mean something. And BES administration has quite a bit of control over data so they can wipe stuff and oversee security easily.
    iOS is in the process of getting FIPS certified.

    http://csrc.nist.gov/groups/STM/cmvp...0InProcess.pdf

    A device is only as secure as you make it. FIPS isn't going to help you here.
    07-29-11 08:03 AM
  9. calaviqpfza4's Avatar
    I wouldn't worry too much about it. With QNX phones coming next year, there should be greater support for the platform and hopefully more interest from developers.
    I don't understand why everybody seems to think QNX is RIM's savior. It isn't doing much for the Playbook (check the sales figures). After all, a BB Bold with QNX is still a BB Bold. Do you think a senior exec. is going to care or even know what is running under the sheets? Nope. All they care about is, can it do email, and can I make a phone call. You're kidding yourself to think otherwise (yes, I know there are Senior Executive that are tech. savvy)

    I can't see developers waiting around and seeing. RIM has a self inflicted gun shot wound in their foot, by this stop gap they call OS7. Why would a developer write something in OS7, knowing very well it has a short shelf life... I believe the decision to support other platforms are being made for them by RIM.
    07-29-11 08:10 AM
  10. sportline's Avatar
    Os7 will stay at least 2 years, will work for legacy devices a well.
    Qnx will go to superphones (which may get delayed) , so os7 devices will stay for sometime. It is not interim, as os7 devices won't be upgradeable to qnx.
    So top flagship device will run qnx, lower rung will run os7. Thats my understanding.

    Sent from my Dell Streak using Tapatalk
    07-29-11 08:32 AM
  11. Rennteam's Avatar
    My wife has an iPhone 4 and has never had an issue with dropped calls. Nor have any of the other 4-5 that I know well who have iPhones.

    Meanwhile, my Bold has a habit of dropping calls. No idea why, but it does.

    And, lets get over this idea that all apps are games. That's one of the most common CB dismissals of the iPhone that I hear.

    I've said this before and I'll say it again re: BB...

    They are still struggling to put out circa 2009 phones, and they are spending millions to try to get a 5 or 10 minutes more battery life. Meanwhile, Apple, Google, and even Microsoft (who hasn't yet released Mango) are all focused on the bigger picture of how mobile technology and cloud computing fit into our lives, and how they can consolidate and streamline it all, and present it.

    I simply don't see RIM challenging Apple or Google, and am convinced that Microsoft is going to fly by them. Now, will they go out of business? Likely not, unless they are bought up. I really do picture RIM as a niche product, aimed at governments and corporations. But, jmo...
    I couldn't agree more. I stopped using Blackberry phones with the 9700 and I own the iPhone 4 and the Samsung Galaxy S2 right now. As much as I try to like Android, I'm still going back to iOS, simply because of the overwhelming availability of apps and media content.

    As to the Blackberry Playbook, I try to give you an example: I own the Playbook (16GB) and the iPad 2. I'm using the iPad 2 most of the time, especially when flying or just doing some work/internet surfing at home but the only place I'm using the Playbook is...surprise, surprise...the beach. Yes, the beach. The Playbook has a fantastic display for direct sunlight viewing because it is so bright, absolutely perfect. I usually tether it to my iPhone 4 and there I go. Otherwise, the Playbook sucks big time, no apps and even if the Android player is going to work, I have the Samsung Galaxy S2 and most of the fabulous apps I'm using on the iPad 2, aren't even available for Android.

    I don't say the iPad is perfect and there are many things I don't like about Apple products too but RIM just doesn't get it right anymore and I can't see where this is going. All new products they announced aren't really interesting for me, I always compare them to the iPhone 4 and the Galaxy S2 and I can't really find anything better or more interesting worth going for. Sorry.

    Like Nokia, I think RIM missed the boat but maybe, as somebody suggested, they will be bought by a bigger player but to be honest, I wouldn't count on that. Look at Apple, they sit on tons of cash and they didn't buy almost anything. Same with Microsoft, huge alliance with Nokia but no buy out.

    Time will tell but I'm afraid RIM is done, as sad as this may sound.
    07-29-11 08:36 AM
  12. calaviqpfza4's Avatar
    If you can visualize one of those I'm a PC, I am Mac commercials. Android and Apple would be the cool, hip, young teenagers in the commercial. RIM would be represented by an old man with a walker and oxygen tank, talking with the teens and trying to be cool.

    Is RIM losing relevancy? No. They've already lost it. While they are nowhere near life support, they need to figure out how to stave of infection, and become cool and relevant again.
    psufan32 likes this.
    07-29-11 09:12 AM
  13. 01itr's Avatar
    If you can visualize one of those I'm a PC, I am Mac commercials. Android and Apple would be the cool, hip, young teenagers in the commercial. RIM would be represented by an old man with a walker and oxygen tank, talking with the teens and trying to be cool.

    Is RIM losing relevancy? No. They've already lost it. While they are nowhere near life support, they need to figure out how to stave of infection, and become cool and relevant again.
    I'm surprised being in Toronto you think that BB is so "uncool". Just on my VIA rail ride yesterday there were two teenage girls with iPhones talking about how their friends' BBs do all these cool things that they can't do with their iPhones. BB is far from losing relevancy. Although I did see a guy in front of me who was using his bold for playing solitaire and listening to music on his old (non-touch) iPod -.-

    In regards to QNX and the Playbook, I have honestly started to think the RIM decided to cut their losses when it comes to the Playbook and just continue with minimal support and updates. This kind of makes sense if you think about it. The tablets make up only a very very tiny fraction of their revenue, while their phones make up a monstrous chunk. It would make much more sense to focus on the monstrous chunk of revenue, especially since that is the one under the most criticism and the one they are losing market share in.
    07-29-11 09:37 AM
  14. ADGrant's Avatar
    In regards to QNX and the Playbook, I have honestly started to think the RIM decided to cut their losses when it comes to the Playbook and just continue with minimal support and updates. This kind of makes sense if you think about it. The tablets make up only a very very tiny fraction of their revenue, while their phones make up a monstrous chunk. It would make much more sense to focus on the monstrous chunk of revenue, especially since that is the one under the most criticism and the one they are losing market share in.
    I am surprised they developed the Playbook instead of focusing on their core business.
    07-29-11 09:47 AM
  15. Economist101's Avatar
    I'm surprised being in Toronto you think that BB is so "uncool". Just on my VIA rail ride yesterday there were two teenage girls with iPhones talking about how their friends' BBs do all these cool things that they can't do with their iPhones. BB is far from losing relevancy.
    I think it's "uncool" to have subway discussions on what smartphones can and can't do, and by extension, any device carried by such people becomes uncool at that moment, be it BlackBerry, iPhone, Android or the red phone underneath the glass case that they used to call Batman on that 1960s TV show (which lacked 3G, by the way).

    As for relevancy, it's not an either/or kind of thing, but rather more of a continuum. Is the BlackBerry brand less relevant today than it was three years ago? Yes, because it's no longer the leader it was then. Does that mean BlackBerry is irrelevant? No. Similarly, though the iPhone was relevant the moment it launched, it was less relevant than the BlackBerry since RIM was winning the sales war then.
    Last edited by Economist101; 07-29-11 at 10:13 AM.
    07-29-11 10:10 AM
  16. 01itr's Avatar
    I think it's "uncool" to have subway discussions on what smartphones can and can't do, and by extension, any device carried by such people becomes uncool at that moment
    Is this sarcasm?
    07-29-11 10:37 AM
  17. calaviqpfza4's Avatar
    I'm surprised being in Toronto you think that BB is so "uncool". Just on my VIA rail ride yesterday there were two teenage girls with iPhones talking about how their friends' BBs do all these cool things that they can't do with their iPhones. BB is far from losing relevancy. Although I did see a guy in front of me who was using his bold for playing solitaire and listening to music on his old (non-touch) iPod -.-
    What kind of stereotype is that? Because I'm Canadian I need to have some sort of loyalty to RIM? I'm free to make my own choices, and I choose not to use a RIM phone. I'm a long time BES admin, I've seen all the problems with their phones... I'm also not a Toronto Maple Leaf fan so there LOL

    Also, it always amazes me to see boat loads of people pecking away at their BB and listening to an iPod (I take the GO Train everyday). Nice marketing on RIM there. I bet most of these people don't know their BB's can play MP3's.
    07-29-11 10:38 AM
  18. 01itr's Avatar
    What kind of stereotype is that? Because I'm Canadian I need to have some sort of loyalty to RIM? I'm free to make my own choices, and I choose not to use a RIM phone. I'm a long time BES admin, I've seen all the problems with their phones... I'm also not a Toronto Maple Leaf fan so there LOL
    Sorry I worded that poorly. I was trying to say that BB is more popular/relevant in Canada than the United States, and I would assume this would be particularly evident in Toronto (it is in London).
    07-29-11 10:42 AM
  19. Xterra2's Avatar
    Truth is YES blackbberry is losing relevance

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-29-11 12:32 PM
  20. Phil DeLong's Avatar
    The Problem is that as blackberry users we just take it.

    We don't call and ask why we don't have an app, we don't avoid services that ignore us, we just grin and move on.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Very nicely put. I agree that if something stinks, it's up to the consumer to call the company behind it out. Sitting and stewing doesn't do anyone any good.
    07-29-11 01:13 PM
  21. bassman67's Avatar
    Just being honest here - I can't wait to dump my Blackberry next year. I am looking forward to trying a WP7 phone. It will be interesting to see what new handsets come out in the next 8 months!
    07-29-11 11:54 PM
  22. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Just being honest here - I can't wait to dump my Blackberry next year. I am looking forward to trying a WP7 phone. It will be interesting to see what new handsets come out in the next 8 months!
    Aren't you getting a little ahead of yourself? Lol 5 months left out of this year.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-30-11 01:12 AM
  23. Daniel Ratcliffe's Avatar
    In all honesty, I'm seeing BlackBerry losing relevance like mad. Of my 100 BBM contacts, 20 have already switched (must delete them at some point) and 78 of the remaining 80 are planning to drop BB as soon as they can. Combine that with the fact people get bullied for having a BlackBerry instead of an iPhone/Android (you try and explain why you chose that phone and you get called a blind fanboy, effectively saying that if RIM told me to shoot myself in the back of the head until I was dead that I would).

    Personally, I think that the cool element of Android and iPhone, and to a lesser extent Windows Phone, is going to send RIM down because people will just not get a BlackBerry out of fear of being bullied big time for it. RIM must now market really well, and make those with Android and iPhone think "Oh, BlackBerry is cool again", make them jealous of the BlackBerry users (even if they have no reason to be).

    I'm likely to get even more abuse with my next phone (either BlackBerry or webOS), but I've always been abused by randomers for every reason under the sun (including for doing my job as a tank in a random dungeon for which I queued as the tank) so I've got a thick skin with regards to it.
    Last edited by Paladinleeds; 07-30-11 at 01:54 AM. Reason: Finishing off sentence
    07-30-11 01:53 AM
  24. Rootbrian's Avatar
    Tell them off. In all honesty, it's just a phone with a computer controlling it. Ask them if they have anything better to do than making others feel miserable or putting them down just because of a phone they like that they're using. Tell them to stop. Don't even be afraid to file a police report, even if it's family. That kind of treatment shouldn't be tolerated. Period.

    In all honesty, I'm seeing BlackBerry losing relevance like mad. Of my 100 BBM contacts, 20 have already switched (must delete them at some point) and 78 of the remaining 80 are planning to drop BB as soon as they can. Combine that with the fact people get bullied for having a BlackBerry instead of an iPhone/Android (you try and explain why you chose that phone and you get called a blind fanboy, effectively saying that if RIM told me to shoot myself in the back of the head until I was dead that I would).

    Personally, I think that the cool element of Android and iPhone, and to a lesser extent Windows Phone, is going to send RIM down because people will just not get a BlackBerry out of fear of being bullied big time for it. RIM must now market really well, and make those with Android and iPhone think "Oh, BlackBerry is cool again", make them jealous of the BlackBerry users (even if they have no reason to be).

    I'm likely to get even more abuse with my next phone (either BlackBerry or webOS), but I've always been abused by randomers for every reason under the sun (including for doing my job as a tank in a random dungeon for which I queued as the tank) so I've got a thick skin with regards to it.
    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-30-11 01:58 AM
  25. noelsolutions's Avatar
    Here in the UK I see this everyday working in the banking field the amount of clients I know who have dumped there Blackberry's over the past 12 months has been a total shock. Blackberry & Nokia have rapidly declined the losing relevancy is happening and it is hurting them in a big way. I have been waiting for the Bold 9900 for a few months now gave up my Bold 9780 sold my 9700 & Galaxy S2.

    QNX will not help Blackberry in any way. Android / IOS as well as Microsoft have too much of the market. Why would people choose something new over a tried and tested platform in these current times? RIM does not have the pulling power it use too Apple and Google have plenty. As much is it pains me to say this being a long time blackberry users they are on the back foot and soon will be a sinking ship, RIM empire will not be striking back.

    The 9900 looks surely to be my last blackberry and this is only because I loved the original bold 9000. Nothing in there up and coming portfolio line-up makes me think wow look at that. There hasnt been no Research in Motion for a while now more like receding in motion like my hairline ☺
    07-30-11 06:55 AM
82 1234
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