07-30-11 08:23 AM
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  1. robert_in_la's Avatar
    People seem to believe that America is the most important market.
    Well the fact is, U.S. consumers spend more on a per capita average on electronic goods than any other country. When it comes to these and other consumer good - tell me one company says or things being in the U.S. market isn't important.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    07-28-11 03:46 PM
  2. robert_in_la's Avatar
    Like it or not people like there apps - as it delivers content in a different way that a website can or doesn't do. Regarding RIM becoming loosing relevance... look at what I was told Volvo Corp. had to say about not having a BB app.

    I just bought a new 12' S60 and the Volvo app allows you to check your fuel, lock your doors, tells you if your alarm is going off, and some other stuff right from your smartphone, which is only available for the iPhone and Android OS.

    I asked the GM of the dealership that I know why it wasn't avail for BB and he said he was told by Corporate that Volvo doesn't see a need for it as market research showed that consumers who are in the demographic to purchase a new Volvo are by in far more likely to own either an iPhone or Android as opposed to a BB.
    Last edited by Robert_LA; 07-28-11 at 04:35 PM.
    07-28-11 03:49 PM
  3. PsyCorps's Avatar
    Well the fact is, U.S. consumers spend more on a per capita average on electronic goods than any other country. When it comes to these and other consumer good - tell me one company says or things being in the U.S. market isn't important.
    As he said, important, yes. Most important ..?, if 5% of the people live in the US that still means that 95% of the people don't...
    What if tomorrow BBM in china becomes a hype and all Chinese people start buying a BB?
    South America and Africa starting to get into the BB thing and Europe already is in love with it now, I think that there a lot of people who are going to get BB eventually...and the tide will change...we just have to sit out the ride...
    07-28-11 03:54 PM
  4. rollingrock1988's Avatar
    Well the fact is, U.S. consumers spend more on a per capita average on electronic goods than any other country. When it comes to these and other consumer good - tell me one company says or things being in the U.S. market isn't important.
    I don't think anyone is saying it isn't important. The argument is about the American centric debate and stats

    Global Smartphones Market to Reach 1641.82 Million Units by 2017, According to New Report by Global Industry Analysts, Inc.



    The population of USA is a little over 0.3 Billion, about 5% of the Global population. Important, yes. Most important... ???.
    Yes. There are many people. But news papers, stock analysts etc. are all concerned with America. Leading one to believe that it is the most important country for intl. business.

    As another poster said we spend the most... Companies go where the money is and if people are coughing up money for BBs in America, then there seems to be an issue.
    07-28-11 03:54 PM
  5. robert_in_la's Avatar
    As he said, important, yes. Most important..?, if 5% of the people live in the US that still means that 95% of the people don't...
    What if tomorrow BBM in china becomes a hype and all Chinese people start buying a BB?
    South America and Africa starting to get into the BB thing and Europe already is in love with it now, I think that there a lot of people who are going to get BB eventually...and the tide will change...we just have to sit out the ride...
    But you have to keep in mind price point - that is why Apple is making a low cost iPhone for the markets you pointed out - whereas the market segment for the U.S. for higher priced goods is among one of the most important.

    Looking at total population of a country when I pointed out that the U.S. is the highest in the World for Per Capita dollars spent on electronic goods is the key indicator here along with, not population. As an example what good is it if a country has a population of say 100 million where 95% of it lives on $4,000 per year? Last thing they are thinking about is a cell phone.
    Last edited by Robert_LA; 07-28-11 at 04:02 PM.
    07-28-11 03:58 PM
  6. rollingrock1988's Avatar
    China isn't the superpower that people think they are. Their GDP is still 2/3 less than America's. (USA)
    07-28-11 04:03 PM
  7. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Looking at this chart from BGR it looks to me like Rim is still the second biggest manufacturer out there, sounds like it's pretty relevant to me.

    Nielsen: Apple top U.S. smartphone vendor, Android top OS in Q2

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-28-11 04:06 PM
  8. PsyCorps's Avatar
    But you have to keep in mind price point - that is why Apple is making a low cost iPhone for the markets you pointed out - whereas the market segment for the U.S. for higher priced goods is among one of the most important.
    True, but I really like the idea I was reading yesterday about RIM buying back all those "old" phones and sell them in those country's, If you look at how much it cost them to actually MAKE the phone and for what price there selling them, it's just ridiculous, but of course, as long as we are willing to pay for them, they will sell them
    For example, if a new BB gets sold for let's say 500 dollars in the US, we pay 500 Euros here in Europe for the SAME phone at the current rate that is 713 us dollars!
    You cannot tell me that the price difference is made by just putting them in a container and let them sail to Europe
    Somebody is making a LOT of money somehow on our backs
    Also I think that RIM is addressing this problem by manufacturing their bb's in other country's as we could read last week on the Crackberry logs so they can make even more money on the hardware...
    I really believe everything is going to be fine in the end, and yeah, it's a pretty tough ride...
    07-28-11 04:08 PM
  9. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    But you have to keep in mind price point - that is why Apple is making a low cost iPhone for the markets you pointed out - whereas the market segment for the U.S. for higher priced goods is among one of the most important.

    Looking at total population of a country when I pointed out that the U.S. is the highest in the World for Per Capita dollars spent on electronic goods is the key indicator here along with, not population. As an example what good is it if a country has a population of say 100 million where 95% of it lives on $4,000 per year? Last thing they are thinking about is a cell phone.
    Yes, but they also have less debt then most westerners have, personal and national, I doubt many of them are tied to a life long mortgage as most of us are, in many ways they are better off. I have 25 years left to pay for my house.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    PsyCorps likes this.
    07-28-11 04:11 PM
  10. Reed McLay's Avatar
    But you have to keep in mind price point - that is why Apple is making a low cost iPhone for the markets you pointed out - whereas the market segment for the U.S. for higher priced goods is among one of the most important.

    Looking at total population of a country when I pointed out that the U.S. is the highest in the World for Per Capita dollars spent on electronic goods is the key indicator here along with, not population. As an example what good is it if a country has a population of say 100 million where 95% of it lives on $4,000 per year? Last thing they are thinking about is a cell phone.
    100 Million? Asia - Pacific with half the Worlds population, is over 3,000 Million.

    The largest percentage of the developing World's population has the need for secure and private communications. Many of them can afford the best, and that is BlackBerry.
    07-28-11 04:11 PM
  11. PsyCorps's Avatar
    China isn't the superpower that people think they are. Their GDP is still 2/3 less than America's. (USA)
    9.8% is the percentage that the Chinese economy grew in 2010 and it isn't stopping for anyone at any coust...beware...the Chinese are coming....

    As far as my point, if 1.338.612.968 Chinese people (# from 2009) buy a bb and they make 2$ profit on every device I think the RIM stock would rise pretty nicely
    Not saying this WILL happen,just pointing out that there is a lot that COULD happen beside the US market

    p.s. I have to look up all this stuff because I am in NO WAY familiar with economics or demographics btw.
    Last edited by PsyCorps; 07-28-11 at 04:22 PM.
    07-28-11 04:19 PM
  12. Economist101's Avatar
    I wouldn't worry too much about it. With QNX phones coming next year, there should be greater support for the platform and hopefully more interest from developers. RIM is in a stick situation right now where I'm guessing developers are holding off on developing for BBOS since there is a brand new one coming next year.
    As I recall, the exact same statements were made last fall, except then it was the PlayBook that was going to trigger developer interest, platform support, etc.
    07-28-11 04:31 PM
  13. PsyCorps's Avatar
    Yes, but they also have less debt then most westerners have, personal and national, I doubt many of them are tied to a life long mortgage as most of us are, in many ways they are better off. I have 25 years left to pay for my house.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    national debt of china is 19.1% in 2010
    Put that with the percentage that their economy grew in 2010 and let's not forget what a sh*tty year it was for us in the "west" and you got one BIG mother
    I'm telling you, watch out...the Chinese are coming

    And Dispatcher, I only have 10 more years to pay but yeah I feel your pain
    07-28-11 04:34 PM
  14. rollingrock1988's Avatar
    9.8% is the percentage that the Chinese economy grew in 2010 and it isn't stopping for anyone at any coust...beware...the Chinese are coming....

    As far as my point, if 1.338.612.968 Chinese people (# from 2009) buy a bb and they make 2$ profit on every device I think the RIM stock would rise pretty nicely
    Not saying this WILL happen,just pointing out that there is a lot that COULD happen beside the US market

    p.s. I have to look up all this stuff because I am in NO WAY familiar with economics or demographics btw.
    Just recently they were on the brink of financial disaster like the rest of the world. They had to adjust interest rates, just like the rest of the world. Regardless, they are not a threat to the US right now.

    I'm not saying they are not coming up I'm just saying I think it'll a short lived situation.
    07-28-11 04:35 PM
  15. Reed McLay's Avatar
    Just recently they were on the brink of financial disaster like the rest of the world. They had to adjust interest rates, just like the rest of the world. Regardless, they are not a threat to the US right now.

    I'm not saying they are not coming up I'm just saying I think it'll a short lived situation.
    Politics are not part of the discussion, China and America are the top two Global powers and maintain a mutual balance based on shared interests. Nobody is threatening anybody, over anything.

    /politics

    The topic under discussion is, the relevance of BlackBerry and what terms we are using to define relevance.

    PsyCorps likes this.
    07-28-11 04:44 PM
  16. chiefbroski's Avatar
    I think it's difficult to say that RIM has been lazy recently with apparently seven new products in the works, new facebook app, playbook and playbook 4g coming soon, new BBM6, playbook OS updates every month, android player coming, native email coming, significant number of apps on the playbook for only being out a few months. What other company can claim something similar?

    I know they aren't bringing the stuff out fast enough, and its important they remain in high gear, but RIM is aiming high.
    rjshahan likes this.
    07-28-11 04:47 PM
  17. PsyCorps's Avatar
    Just recently they were on the brink of financial disaster like the rest of the world. They had to adjust interest rates, just like the rest of the world. Regardless, they are not a threat to the US right now.

    I'm not saying they are not coming up I'm just saying I think it'll a short lived situation.
    True, even the Chinese will eventually have to bite the bitter apple like we all had to do, I bet that things will even get worse over there in a while, seems that the effects always roll "slowly" across the pacific
    And a threat? I don't know, all I know is that China has a lot of money invested in the US, on the other hand, if the US puts an embargo in place for Chinese products they have a HUGE problem so I guess there in a nice balanced economic "dance" were everyone benefits from the other

    EDIT: LOL Reed, my point exacly while I was typing the message

    Mod Edit:/politics
    Last edited by PsyCorps; 07-28-11 at 04:52 PM.
    07-28-11 04:48 PM
  18. Rootbrian's Avatar
    I doubt they're losing the relevancy at all. Just about every person I pass, I see multiple smart/phones including blackberries being used (being a cyclist has it's moments), so if they weren't relevant, they wouldn't be used at all, or likely dismissed as a keyboard phone like all the rest.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-28-11 04:49 PM
  19. robert_in_la's Avatar
    True, but I really like the idea I was reading yesterday about RIM buying back all those "old" phones and sell them in those country's, If you look at how much it cost them to actually MAKE the phone and for what price there selling them, it's just ridiculous, but of course, as long as we are willing to pay for them, they will sell them
    For example, if a new BB gets sold for let's say 500 dollars in the US, we pay 500 Euros here in Europe for the SAME phone at the current rate that is 713 us dollars!
    You cannot tell me that the price difference is made by just putting them in a container and let them sail to Europe
    Somebody is making a LOT of money somehow on our backs
    Also I think that RIM is addressing this problem by manufacturing their bb's in other country's as we could read last week on the Crackberry logs so they can make even more money on the hardware...
    I really believe everything is going to be fine in the end, and yeah, it's a pretty tough ride...
    Well put it this way - I am a huge fan of competition and having choices and I hope RIM succeeds, as much as I like Apple products I don't think one bill fits all.

    The only thing I would say is a fish stinks from the head down and RIMs isn't exempt from this. I really hope they come out with new and kicking stuff with QNX handsets.
    07-28-11 05:11 PM
  20. howarmat's Avatar
    I doubt they're losing the relevancy at all. Just about every person I pass, I see multiple smart/phones including blackberries being used (being a cyclist has it's moments), so if they weren't relevant, they wouldn't be used at all, or likely dismissed as a keyboard phone like all the rest.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    in some cases that is what they are thought of as. they arent the "smartphone" they once were. I have seen many a time them being referred to as a feature phone basically. Things will change this coming money when the new phones are released HOPEFULLY.
    07-28-11 05:16 PM
  21. robert_in_la's Avatar
    I doubt they're losing the relevancy at all. Just about every person I pass, I see multiple smart/phones including blackberries being used (being a cyclist has it's moments), so if they weren't relevant, they wouldn't be used at all, or likely dismissed as a keyboard phone like all the rest.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Lately I've been asking people I see using a BB how do they like their phone. Out of the 15 people I asked 12 said they are getting rid of it as soon as their contract is up so they can go to either an iPhone or Android.

    Personally I have Galaxy S and I like it a lot but I am seriously going to look at the Bold 9900 and the next generation of iPhone. But I am hoping the 9900 is what I think it will be.
    07-28-11 05:31 PM
  22. rollingrock1988's Avatar
    Politics are not part of the discussion, China and America are the top two Global powers and maintain a mutual balance based on shared interests. Nobody is threatening anybody, over anything.

    /politics

    The topic under discussion is, the relevance of BlackBerry and what terms we are using to define relevance.

    I'm sorry, I wasn't referencing politics one way or another. It was a response to another poster's comment that the stats were American-centric.

    I understand that many people are talking about the bigger picture but what they fail to realize is that there is an emphasis on the American market for a reason.
    07-28-11 06:09 PM
  23. kevinnugent's Avatar
    I work at a major bank in Australia. We have very high spec computer systems and processes and the bank as a whole is VERY conservative and super security conscious.

    Up until a month ago, the choice of corporate phones was Blackberry. No question. Every.single.person.had.one.

    Now, my new company phone is an iPhone 4. Other corporate contacts I have are saying the same thing. Change.
    07-28-11 07:41 PM
  24. geoffsdad's Avatar
    A sad day for me. I started the day excited for all the new app integtration with BBM. I decided I would send out a couple of apps to my BBM contacts and then I decided I would clean up/remove all of my BBM contacts thay had moved on to android phones. 6 months ago I belonged to 3 groups and had approx. 30 contacts on BBM. After clean up of my contact list, I have no more BBM groups, aand 5 actual contacts. Of those 5 contacts, 3 only use BB for work and android for play. I Guess I wondered in the back of my mind why I hardly ever utilized BBM anymore. Now I realize. What a bummer.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-28-11 07:57 PM
  25. Caymancroc's Avatar
    I work at a major bank in Australia. We have very high spec computer systems and processes and the bank as a whole is VERY conservative and super security conscious.

    Up until a month ago, the choice of corporate phones was Blackberry. No question. Every.single.person.had.one.

    Now, my new company phone is an iPhone 4. Other corporate contacts I have are saying the same thing. Change.
    We have a small business and will likely make the move to iphone 5 when it comes along. Many loyal years with Blackberry, but the move will save a good chunk of change, as well as, provide cloud document support integrated into iwork. Blackberry has been great and I may return, but iphone is very powerful.
    07-28-11 10:06 PM
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