BlackBerry KEYone = Standard Android 7 + BlackBerry Apps?
- Well at least now your next device choice has seriously opened up!
Great as the S8+ is, also give the Google Pixel XL, Sony Xperia XZ Premium, OnePlus 3T, Huawei P10 Plus, and LG G6 a look.
I'd be confused at what to get if I was in the market for a new device right now. But I'd probably land up with an Exynos Galaxy S8+.04-19-17 03:53 PMLike 0 - Well at least now your next device choice has seriously opened up!
Great as the S8+ is, also give the Google Pixel XL, Sony Xperia XZ Premium, OnePlus 3T, Huawei P10 Plus, and LG G6 a look.
I'd be confused at what to get if I was in the market for a new device right now. But I'd probably land up with an Exynos Galaxy S8+.Last edited by kputock; 04-19-17 at 04:56 PM.
04-19-17 03:56 PMLike 0 - I suppose, if you still believe it. We will see once the KEYone is released and how long it takes to get rooted. From what I can tell they list three main security features: monthly updates, (ie Google) BlackBerry apps, and "security built in from the start"...no one knows what that last item really means. And as I stated previously, encryption, root of trust, and hardened kernel are all features Google claims are enabled for Nougat anyway. BlackBerryMobile does not make specific mention of any of those features by the way, including whether or not KEYone will be unrootable. Just an observation.
How and Why the PRIV Protects Against Rooting | Inside BlackBerry
BlackBerry Android also has other features that you won't find on stock Android, like BlackBerry Integrity Detection.
BlackBerry Integrity Detection is here! | BlackBerry Developer Blog
As far as OS updates go, they post their kernel changes on GitHub every month, the most recent update is from March so I think it's safe to assume development is still active to some extent.
https://github.com/blackberry/android-linux-kernelanon(2313227) likes this.04-19-17 05:15 PMLike 1 - Root protection is built into BlackBerry's security offerings so if the Keyone has the DTEK app it should have them as well,
How and Why the PRIV Protects Against Rooting | Inside BlackBerry
BlackBerry Android also has other features that you won't find on stock Android, like BlackBerry Integrity Detection.
BlackBerry Integrity Detection is here! | BlackBerry Developer Blog
As far as OS updates go, they post their kernel changes on GitHub every month, the most recent update is from March so I think it's safe to assume development is still active to some extent.
https://github.com/blackberry/android-linux-kernel
Secondly, while I agree the 'BlackBerry Android' kernel is still being updated with patches...how do we know if these patches are unique to BlackBerry or just hand-me-downs from Google? Or for that matter, if the BlackBerry kernel is actually any different?04-19-17 09:15 PMLike 0 -
BSRT-2016-007 Vulnerability in Qualcomm kernel driver impacts BlackBerry powered by Android smartphones04-19-17 11:51 PMLike 0 - I like the simplicity of that answer...LOL!
So I suppose that gives anyone interested in 'BlackBerry' much more options in terms of their next device. We can basically pick up any Android device running Nougat, purchase (or use for free, with ads) the BlackBerry App suite...and we basically get the same BlackBerry experience others will pay hundreds of dollars more for, with the same (or better) hardware? Wow. Thanks Chen! That's going to be a lot cheaper than my PRIV and as an added bonus, I won't have to wear the badge of a sell-out company that lies to its customers on my device. Sweet!
So pay extra for that KEYBOARD or don't. Simple decision.Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.04-20-17 09:05 AMLike 1 - Honestly, all I was really looking for was a better explanation from someone here in terms what the BlackBerry Android security offering entails (under the new licensing model) and some sort of proof because quite frankly, no third party oem is even talking about it. "Trust us" and "same as always" doesn't really cut it. And at just $1 a month for their apps (not complaining) that really does open up a lot of possibilities once my PRIV needs replacing.
But, at the moment, the KEYone once really released (!!!!) has a KEYBOARD. That is it main selling point, I believe. Enterprise and Government might light the underlying root-less security.
We shall definitely see........04-20-17 09:24 AMLike 0 - Thanks for the links. A few comments. It would be nice to know whether or not 'integrity detection' is actually going to be on the KEYone, because it is mentioned nowhere in the product literature; the blog says it is 'unique' to the PRIV.
Secondly, while I agree the 'BlackBerry Android' kernel is still being updated with patches...how do we know if these patches are unique to BlackBerry or just hand-me-downs from Google? Or for that matter, if the BlackBerry kernel is actually any different?04-20-17 09:28 AMLike 0 - In my opinion the whole "secure Android" thing that BB has been pushing has all been a big marketing ploy, not that there is anything wrong with that. Google is mining your data on these phones, just like they do on all Android phones. That's why the DTEK app doesn't cover any of the Google apps on the phone, which I assume was an agreement by Google and BlackBerry that they not include their apps to be scanned by DTEK.
I've always maintained that if you stick to the play store, don't root your phone, and don't click on shady links than you are going to be fine. I've never had a single security issue with the many Android phones I know. BlackBerry is known for security, so they are going to promote that with their phones. If it makes someone feel better about owning an Android phone because it says BlackBerry on it, then I don't see a problem with that. But the notion that because it says BlackBerry on it makes it more secure than any other modern Android phone is a little silly in my opinion. If you aren't paying for BES (which in itself pretty much says that without that your phone isn't secure as it could be) then you are using an Android phone that has some top level security in it, but no more than most of the other Android phone that have been released in the past year or so.elfabio80 likes this.04-21-17 08:45 AMLike 1 - Seeing as very few seem too keen on wading into this topic...particularly the many knowledgeable people on these boards who ought to be able to set the record straight on this...just to sum up:
1. BlackBerry Android monthly security patches are not materially different than any other Android phone that receives the same monthly patches as Google.
2. BlackBerry hardened kernel and patching is not materially different than any other Android phone that receives the same monthly kernel patches as Google.
3. BlackBerry encryption, root of trust, integrity detection, etc. is not any different than what is implemented on any stock Android 7 device.
4. The only clear differentiators appear to be the inability to root a BlackBerry Android, which may or may no be technology specific to BlackBerry, pre-installed BlackBerry apps including DTEK....and in some cases, a physical keyboard.
Does that just about sum it up?Troy Tiscareno and mottodg like this.04-21-17 09:58 AMLike 2 -
BB, Still the Oneanon(3641385) likes this.04-21-17 10:03 AMLike 1 - Seeing as very few seem too keen on wading into this topic...particularly the many knowledgeable people on these boards who ought to be able to set the record straight on this...just to sum up:
1. BlackBerry Android monthly security patches are not materially different than any other Android phone that receives the same monthly patches as Google.
2. BlackBerry hardened kernel and patching is not materially different than any other Android phone that receives the same monthly kernel patches as Google.
3. BlackBerry encryption, root of trust, integrity detection, etc. is not any different than what is implemented on any stock Android 7 device.
4. The only clear differentiators appear to be the inability to root a BlackBerry Android, which may or may no be technology specific to BlackBerry, pre-installed BlackBerry apps including DTEK....and in some cases, a physical keyboard.
Does that just about sum it up?
The degree to which security matters to your enterprise/customers and what those specific requirements are will dictate your options. BlackBerry is arguably as good or better than any other Android phone n an Enterprise context
For a consumer, any properly patched phone is unlikely to cause as much trouble as other stupid user decisions, such as downloading insecure apps and weak passwords.
Security is a big, difficult problem, with many layers for the people who take it seriously. Dumbing down the comparisons don't serve a useful purpose.
Posted with my trusty Z10Troy Tiscareno and KemKev like this.04-21-17 10:06 AMLike 2 - Not really. 3 and 4 are the same thing. The reason no one appears to have been able to root a BlackBerry is due to the Root of Trust.
The degree to which security matters to your enterprise/customers and what those specific requirements are will dictate your options. BlackBerry is arguably as good or better than any other Android phone n an Enterprise context
For a consumer, any properly patched phone is unlikely to cause as much trouble as other stupid user decisions, such as downloading insecure apps and weak passwords.
Security is a big, difficult problem, with many layers for the people who take it seriously. Dumbing down the comparisons don't serve a useful purpose.
Posted with my trusty Z10Last edited by kputock; 04-21-17 at 10:31 AM.
04-21-17 10:14 AMLike 0 - Really? In an earlier is alleged that BlackBerry had implemented root protection that is hardware specific (which I am giving the benefit of the doubt is correct). This in fact would be different than 'root of trust' which actually is a stock Android feature and according to Google, has been since version 4.4.
http://csrc.nist.gov/projects/root-trust/
http://bizblog.blackberry.com/2015/0...-at-endpoints/
Posted with my trusty Z1004-21-17 10:18 AMLike 0 - I have an Atari tee shirt that I wear as I love the icon of this company that gave me so much fun as a teen with their pioneer video games and computers that used windows years before others. They failed because of poor business practices although they were tech innovators just like BlackBerry. BlackBerry had to change but it is a legendary company that has given me years of smartphone enjoyment so many of us would be happy to "wear the badge" even if it costs more.
BB, Still the One
This is not the same as what BlackBerry Android consisted of either on the PRIV or indeed anything on the DTEKs prior to Nougat. BlackBerry Android was being sold as an enhanced version of Android with additional security features. That no longer appears to be the case. And again, I am not saying that is necessarily a bad thing...if you are fine with it great...but it does represent a difference between a licensed BlackBerry device and the previous BlackBerry Androids.Last edited by kputock; 04-21-17 at 10:31 AM.
04-21-17 10:21 AMLike 0 - Wearing the badge is all well and good, as long as you are giving your customer the straight goods and everyone knows what they are buying. I like BlackBerry and I have always supported them, but I do expect a fair and truthful portrayal of what I am paying for. And based on what I see advertised with both licensees...it looks like we are buying stock Android with regular updates and BlackBerry apps, branded as a BlackBerry device (with the possible exception of a hardware based root of trust and/or unrootable device...which no one is actually advertising)
This is not the same as what BlackBerry Android consisted of either on the PRIV or indeed anything on the DTEKs prior to Nougat. BlackBerry Android was being sold as an enhanced version of Android with additional security features. That no longer appears to be the case. And again, I am not saying that is necessarily a bad thing...if you are fine with it great...but it does represent a difference between a licensed BlackBerry device and the previous BlackBerry Androids.
Blackberry is not simply offering a stock Android implementation, but it's changes to Android amount to tailoring the security settings to match its root of trust implementation., not a radical departure.
Posted with my trusty Z10KemKev likes this.04-21-17 10:37 AMLike 1 - The DTEK app is also exclusive on BlackBerrusty Android, and is very helpful in protecting privacy and security.
Blackberry is not simply offering a stock Android implementation, but it's changes to Android amount to tailoring the security settings to match its root of trust implementation., not a radical departure.
Posted with my trusty Z10
As far as the BlackBerry root of trust and how unique that is - again, that seems to be debatable. I agree it is a matter of implementation. But it seems, especially with Nougat...the same can be said for any Android Oem. And certainly if it was truly that unique, perhaps BlackBerry and particularly its licensees might want to consider mentioning it in their product literature...unless they are fearful of getting dinged by Google for false advertising, Lol.04-21-17 10:50 AMLike 0 - Blackberry has a hardware root of trust. That may be the confusion.
Hardware Roots of Trust
How BlackBerry Security Begins At The Endpoints | Inside BlackBerry for Business Blog
Posted with my trusty Z10
Now I do fully believe they have "locked" things down to make BlackBerry Android un-rootable. But just how much that protects a consumer, is hard to really define in the real world. As always, BlackBerry's security is still very much dependant upon how it is setup and managed within a corporate network.
Which is why TCL has clearly stated that ENTERPRISE is their focus for the BlackBerry brand.
BlackBerry's only "feature" that might matter to consumers is the KEYBOARD... Which is something I expect BB Merah Putih is starting to wish they had focused on.04-21-17 10:51 AMLike 0 -
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/1...rry_to_fix_it/
https://help.blackberry.com/en/secur...226529665.html
How useful the changes are will depend on the user and their needs.
I don't believe stock Android offers anything like BID, do you have a link?04-21-17 04:39 PMLike 0 - "How BlackBerry Security Begins At The Endpoints" was a smoke and mirrors article... have to read it carefully. And pay attention to what they have said since that article.... there is nothing special in the hardware.
Now I do fully believe they have "locked" things down to make BlackBerry Android un-rootable. But just how much that protects a consumer, is hard to really define in the real world. As always, BlackBerry's security is still very much dependant upon how it is setup and managed within a corporate network.
Which is why TCL has clearly stated that ENTERPRISE is their focus for the BlackBerry brand.
BlackBerry's only "feature" that might matter to consumers is the KEYBOARD... Which is something I expect BB Merah Putih is starting to wish they had focused on.
Privacy is the most important consumer issue, and I think the DTEK-Nougat combo is the best for monitoring and managing privacy on Android.
I much prefer BB10 for Privacy over iOS or Android. I can manage cookies and use the private browser for most of my needs.
Posted with my trusty Z10anon(3641385) likes this.04-21-17 05:17 PMLike 1 - Seeing as very few seem too keen on wading into this topic...particularly the many knowledgeable people on these boards who ought to be able to set the record straight on this...just to sum up:
1. BlackBerry Android monthly security patches are not materially different than any other Android phone that receives the same monthly patches as Google.
2. BlackBerry hardened kernel and patching is not materially different than any other Android phone that receives the same monthly kernel patches as Google.
3. BlackBerry encryption, root of trust, integrity detection, etc. is not any different than what is implemented on any stock Android 7 device.
4. The only clear differentiators appear to be the inability to root a BlackBerry Android, which may or may no be technology specific to BlackBerry, pre-installed BlackBerry apps including DTEK....and in some cases, a physical keyboard.
Does that just about sum it up?
https://www.samsungknox.com/en/knox-technology
Blackberry has a hardware root of trust. That may be the confusion.
http://csrc.nist.gov/projects/root-trust/
http://bizblog.blackberry.com/2015/0...-at-endpoints/
Posted with my trusty Z10
One may have to dig deep into each Android OEM to find out how each implemented security. I'd be interested in how Huawei does it to as they seem adamant on using their own Kirin chips.04-21-17 06:06 PMLike 0 - It sounds like in Android took a similar route to Samsung, the difference being that BB phones run in the further secured environment from the moment they boot, while Samsung's depend on Google for normal security but have Knox built-in if you want to go the extra mile:
https://www.samsungknox.com/en/knox-technology
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...b740887529.jpg
Going by the above image, it seems they aren't the only ones.
One may have to dig deep into each Android OEM to find out how each implemented security. I'd be interested in how Huawei does it to as they seem adamant on using their own Kirin chips.
BlackBerry uses the hardware root of trust built into the Qualcomm chips by Qualcomm. The Chinese (Huawei) would obviously not rely on that.
This is also the reason why Huawei gear is not used by western governments, or at least by those governments that are responsible and understand the implications.
Posted via CB1004-22-17 10:12 AMLike 0 - It sounds like in Android took a similar route to Samsung, the difference being that BB phones run in the further secured environment from the moment they boot, while Samsung's depend on Google for normal security but have Knox built-in if you want to go the extra mile:
https://www.samsungknox.com/en/knox-technology
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...b740887529.jpg
Going by the above image, it seems they aren't the only ones.
One may have to dig deep into each Android OEM to find out how each implemented security. I'd be interested in how Huawei does it to as they seem adamant on using their own Kirin chips.
So it would seem the BlackBerry experience under the new licensing strategy has basically been diluted down to the following:
BlackBerry hardware --> replaced by a logo/branding, and a pkb (where applicable)...and any other 'BlackBerry' hardware characteristics a third party oem considers marketable
BlackBerry security --> replaced by unrootable device as the main distinguishing factor (other aspects, such as root of trust, sandboxing, encryption seem to be either enabled or available to all Nougat Androids)
BlackBerry OS --> BlackBerry suite of appsLast edited by kputock; 04-23-17 at 05:17 PM.
04-23-17 05:03 PMLike 0 -
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