06-18-19 08:32 AM
44 12
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  1. idssteve's Avatar
    Has anyone studied how VARK (learning styles) might influence KB style preferences?
    06-15-19 01:10 PM
  2. Invictus0's Avatar
    Yet, despite Z30's respectable specs and Apple style embedded battery, it still never demonstrated anything remotely resembling market wide 99:1 sales superiority over lesser powered Classic. Afaik. Did Z30 ever outsell Classic at all?
    The Z30 was announced in the middle of this so it's understandable that consumers would stay away. Who wants to buy a flagship if there's a risk that the company making it may not be around in a few weeks?

    https://www.therecord.com/news-story...early-1b-loss/

    I think almost all of BlackBerry's VKB releases have had issues like this, either the OS wasn't ready or there was some sort of business issue that would overshadow it. PKB devices never had this problem.
    06-15-19 03:29 PM
  3. the_boon's Avatar
    I'm fairly certain the 5t would be the winner: double the RAM, storage, cameras, Snapdragon 835, and it cost half as much.
    Agree with you on everything there, but I'm pretty sure the 5T didn't cost half as much as the Motion lol
    06-15-19 08:50 PM
  4. Thud Hardsmack's Avatar
    Agree with you on everything there, but I'm pretty sure the 5T didn't cost half as much as the Motion lol
    Not literally, it was $440 US for the 5t and $560 US for the Motion, but still more than enough to make it a no-brainer if you weren't specifically going for the BlackBerry branding.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    06-15-19 10:07 PM
  5. Tsepz_GP's Avatar
    I have yet to hear a credible explanation: If slab is inherently 99% "better" than PKB, why doesn't BlackBerry slab experience reflect Apple & Samsung's 99:1 ratio? Or even a recognizable trend toward that direction? Has BlackBerry slab EVER accounted for 51% of BlackBerry sales? ??? Why is that? Yes, PKB optimal BBOS was poorly equipped for slab duties, but BB10 and Android were designed from conception optimized for slab. To the detriment of PKB. Why hasn't Z10/30 - D50/60 - Motion, etc, at least outsold Q - PP - Classic - K... ????


    I personally despise everything "slab" and even "sorta slab" so I legitimately have no clue as to why 99% of slab market ignored Motion...??? But seriously... can a faithful "slab lover" offer insight into WHY Motion didn't sell at least as well as K in a 99:1 market environment? I'm legitimately curious...????
    Android was actually made for PKB at conception


    As for why the Motion didn’t succeed, there were far better slabs and I don’t remember it having as wide of a release was the K devices, or the same promotion as the Priv, it seemed like it was treated like an stepchild, I don’t remember the Motion being available here in South Africa,but the Priv and Key devices have been.
    06-16-19 03:10 AM
  6. nevertoofar's Avatar
    Hope they release a 5G keythree...

    Posted via CB10
    06-16-19 05:48 AM
  7. idssteve's Avatar
    Android was actually made for PKB at conception
    [IMG=600x329]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190616/00b3d10f16bf508944cc0f8224c0da0c.jpg[/url]

    As for why the Motion didn’t succeed, there were far better slabs and I don’t remember it having as wide of a release was the K devices, or the same promotion as the Priv, it seemed like it was treated like an stepchild, I don’t remember the Motion being available here in South Africa,but the Priv and Key devices have been.
    True, Android (at least up to latest on LE) still retains some keyboard and mouse "capability". FAR from "optimized" for PKB, imo. Hard to argue Android was an "optimized" platform for PKB at K's intro. Imo. Still a "shotgun marriage", imo.

    Go pick up (and really learn) a 9900, while still possible, select text and edit and then do same on K and you'll experience just one handicap of PKB on Android. PKB ShortCut and SpeedDial capabilities on Android (and even BB10) are also pretty far from BBOS' optimal. Virtually all "modern" OSes and their UI ARE optimized for slab! PKB is a crippled afterthought. Imo.

    Idk how to factor in sales availability or timing, but has PKB really enjoyed enough marketing advantage to excuse away a 99:1 market wide disparity?

    Looking to me, considering the ratios, that BlackBerry itself suffers a 99:1 market disparity. Keyboard style, at worst, seems irrelevant to that. At best, PKB seems to afford BlackBerry an advantage their slab offerings simply have never enjoyed. On the surface of it all, imo.
    the_boon likes this.
    06-16-19 08:40 AM
  8. chain13's Avatar
    ...maybe because those improvements should have been there in the first place lol
    Exactly..


    True, Android (at least up to latest on LE) still retains some keyboard and mouse "capability". FAR from "optimized" for PKB, imo. Hard to argue Android was an "optimized" platform for PKB at K's intro. Imo. Still a "shotgun marriage", imo.
    Not sure it's android that not optimized for pkb, or the oem who can not optimized the pkb for (by using) android.
    Smokeaire likes this.
    06-16-19 09:07 AM
  9. Thud Hardsmack's Avatar
    Not sure it's android that not optimized for pkb, or the oem who can not optimized the pkb for (by using) android.
    Android was just as capable of a keyboard as BBOS in 2007. It's the code writers that probably never used a BlackBerry that failed to add features.
    06-16-19 09:23 AM
  10. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Revisionist history as touchscreen and stylus type screens weren't completely perfected so pkb devices were just simpler and more economical to produce while also being acceptable form as extension of current phones, laptops, desktops and other technological equipment.

    The original vkb devices were the way to state to everyone that you were alternative or non-mainstream by the no-pkb form. It allowed people to start using all touch devices for media consumption with 100% screen for that part of device usage. Until then, slider form was closest way to accomplish large screen with a PKB as cheaper, reliable and UX friendly than VKB choices at time.

    The PKB and slider were replaced as their forms became more expensive, less features and less reliable than VKB had become. Windows, BBOS/BB10, then Android started with PKB, then slider and VKB developed almost simultaneously as cost/demand/supply evolved over short time.
    06-16-19 09:42 AM
  11. the_boon's Avatar
    Revisionist history as touchscreen and stylus type screens weren't completely perfected so pkb devices were just simpler and more economical to produce while also being acceptable form as extension of current phones, laptops, desktops and other technological equipment.

    The original vkb devices were the way to state to everyone that you were alternative or non-mainstream by the no-pkb form. It allowed people to start using all touch devices for media consumption with 100% screen for that part of device usage. Until then, slider form was closest way to accomplish large screen with a PKB as cheaper, reliable and UX friendly than VKB choices at time.

    The PKB and slider were replaced as their forms became more expensive, less features and less reliable than VKB had become. Windows, BBOS/BB10, then Android started with PKB, then slider and VKB developed almost simultaneously as cost/demand/supply evolved over short time.
    All of that makes sense, but it's a bit astonishing that right now there are only a handful of PKB candy bars (Key series) and only one slider crowdfunded by a start-up (Tec Pro 1)
    06-16-19 10:14 AM
  12. TgeekB's Avatar
    All of that makes sense, but it's a bit astonishing that right now there are only a handful of PKB candy bars (Key series) and only one slider crowdfunded by a start-up (Tec Pro 1)
    When I was a kid we used 8 tracks, cassettes and albums to listen to music. The world has moved on to electronic.
    While there has been a revival of interest in these old technologies, should I be surprised there aren’t more record stores around? Just a thought.
    Tsepz_GP likes this.
    06-16-19 10:38 AM
  13. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    All of that makes sense, but it's a bit astonishing that right now there are only a handful of PKB candy bars (Key series) and only one slider crowdfunded by a start-up (Tec Pro 1)
    There was a time when the VKB didn’t make sense cost-wise from a sales perspective. Now it’s the reverse and we’re getting to a point where the PKB doesn’t make sense from a production standpoint if not enough demand to be worthwhile from ROI standpoint...
    chain13 likes this.
    06-16-19 12:24 PM
  14. idssteve's Avatar
    Revisionist history as touchscreen and stylus type screens weren't completely perfected so pkb devices were just simpler and more economical to produce while also being acceptable form as extension of current phones, laptops, desktops and other technological equipment.

    The original vkb devices were the way to state to everyone that you were alternative or non-mainstream by the no-pkb form. It allowed people to start using all touch devices for media consumption with 100% screen for that part of device usage. Until then, slider form was closest way to accomplish large screen with a PKB as cheaper, reliable and UX friendly than VKB choices at time.

    The PKB and slider were replaced as their forms became more expensive, less features and less reliable than VKB had become. Windows, BBOS/BB10, then Android started with PKB, then slider and VKB developed almost simultaneously as cost/demand/supply evolved over short time.
    Well, I guess some of us recall different "revisions". Lol. BBOS certainly did start out with PKB and, to date, provides THE optimal PKB experience. Imo. BBOS never achieved success in VKB. Afaik.

    BB10 did NOT "start out" with PKB. Unless PlayBook or Z10 had PKB hidden somewhere I never discovered. Lol. Q came MONTHS after Z and was missing critical PKB capabilities that only partly got cobbled in with Classic, years later.

    What android did before Priv is mostly irrelevant to my question about BlackBerry. My question remains unanswered, imo. Why, time after time, given the same OS, same platform, same or less specs, etc, etc BlackBerry VKB:PKB sales ratios fail to enjoy even the slightest trend in curve slope as "the market's" 99:1...?? Clearly rejection by 99% of "the market" has more to do with BlackBerry itself than keyboard style. Imo.
    06-16-19 02:37 PM
  15. the_boon's Avatar
    There was a time when the VKB didn’t make sense cost-wise from a sales perspective. Now it’s the reverse and we’re getting to a point where the PKB doesn’t make sense from a production standpoint if not enough demand to be worthwhile from ROI standpoint...
    I'm confident there will always be enough PKB fans for someone out there to make 1 mid ranger once in a while.
    However, losing the BB tax may help TCL sell more units of a "Alcatel KEY".

    Right now, it seems like PKB equals BB, because only BB makes PKB's.

    But it doesn't necessarily need to be that way, if BBMo ever shuts down, doesn't mean all hope is lost for those who want to type on real buttons.

    However, I wouldn't expect that a random OEM that wants to give PKB a shot will ever get close to copying BB's trademark key sculpting or fret style.
    It'll probably look generic like the Samsung S8 keyboard covers.
    06-16-19 02:50 PM
  16. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Well, I guess some of us recall different "revisions". Lol. BBOS certainly did start out with PKB and, to date, provides THE optimal PKB experience. Imo. BBOS never achieved success in VKB. Afaik.

    BB10 did NOT "start out" with PKB. Unless PlayBook or Z10 had PKB hidden somewhere I never discovered. Lol. Q came MONTHS after Z and was missing critical PKB capabilities that only partly got cobbled in with Classic, years later.

    What android did before Priv is mostly irrelevant to my question about BlackBerry. My question remains unanswered, imo. Why, time after time, given the same OS, same platform, same or less specs, etc, etc BlackBerry VKB:PKB sales ratios fail to enjoy even the slightest trend in curve slope as "the market's" 99:1...?? Clearly rejection by 99% of "the market" has more to do with BlackBerry itself than keyboard style. Imo.
    I’m simply describing the evolution of PKB -> Slider -> VKB in the 2000s as the smartphone industry went from business -> prosumer -> consumer in 2000s to now.

    Exactly that BB name is synonymous with PKB and therefore VKB is antithesis of BlackBerry or anything modern to average consumer. Just like people that buy a BBMo PKB that haven’t been around the last 6-10 years are most likely here for the plain old non-capacitive PKB and not BBAndroid or the capacitive PKB that die-hard BB users focus on.

    I own about every BB ever made and there’s nothing special about BB VKB that I could ever accentuate to any mainstream VKB OEM user.
    the_boon and idssteve like this.
    06-16-19 04:20 PM
  17. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    I'm confident there will always be enough PKB fans for someone out there to make 1 mid ranger once in a while.
    However, losing the BB tax may help TCL sell more units of a "Alcatel KEY".

    Right now, it seems like PKB equals BB, because only BB makes PKB's.

    But it doesn't necessarily need to be that way, if BBMo ever shuts down, doesn't mean all hope is lost for those who want to type on real buttons.

    However, I wouldn't expect that a random OEM that wants to give PKB a shot will ever get close to copying BB's trademark key sculpting or fret style.
    It'll probably look generic like the Samsung S8 keyboard covers.
    TCL owns the second biggest PKB name IMO with the Palm brand and former Treo users. However, TCL chose to also license BB and use it’s #1 PKB brand identity. Maybe it hopes on transitioning all the BB fans to Palm without having all the licensing costs.
    06-16-19 04:25 PM
  18. idssteve's Avatar
    I'm confident there will always be enough PKB fans for someone out there to make 1 mid ranger once in a while.
    However, losing the BB tax may help TCL sell more units of a "Alcatel KEY".

    Right now, it seems like PKB equals BB, because only BB makes PKB's.

    But it doesn't necessarily need to be that way, if BBMo ever shuts down, doesn't mean all hope is lost for those who want to type on real buttons.

    However, I wouldn't expect that a random OEM that wants to give PKB a shot will ever get close to copying BB's trademark key sculpting or fret style.
    It'll probably look generic like the Samsung S8 keyboard covers.
    Well, I've long suspected individual learning styles might influence keyboard style preference. No clue which learning style might prefer which KB style but... maybe a medical pro might opine? Maybe it's possible that certain groups of learning styles might sustain a PKB market? If they're even aware??

    afaik, some theories suggest learning styles break down to "VARK"... Visual-Auditory-Reading-Kinesthic... I'm personally strongest with kinesthesis... possible explanation for my preference? IDK. 26 of my crew of 28 are reportedly of similar persuasion. I'd personally assembled that crew based on characteristics I'd identified well before ever hearing about anything like VARK. Lol. Go figure.
    06-16-19 06:19 PM
  19. howarmat's Avatar
    The market of slabs just isnt somewhere that BB/TCL can operate in my opinion. They have their keyboard niche and should stay in that section as long as it makes them $$$. Once it doesnt them dump it as its just dead weight for them just like it became for BB
    06-18-19 08:32 AM
44 12

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