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09-19-19 02:35 PM
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  1. hoopitz's Avatar
    While coming to terms with there being a very good chance the K2 will be the last BlackBerry produced/I own ... I'm wondering why BlackBerry isn't bending over backwards to make TCL happy ... there aren't too many companies chomping at the bit to manufacture BlackBerry handsets.

    Obviously without knowing all the details, it's impossible to know what's really going on, but I can't help but think it's just another instance of BlackBerry overvaluing themselves. Unless they are losing money on this deal, which seems unlikely, I think they're just sealing their own fate.
    phuoc likes this.
    09-17-19 07:24 PM
  2. anon(10321802)'s Avatar
    Maybe it’s not so much greed as being out of touch or having unrealistic expectations.

    I would think they’d be happy to have their intellectual property making money for them at any price point rather than sitting unmonetized.

    But there is obviously a lot of information we are not privy to and a lot of variables to consider, so for all we know, it’s TCL being greedy or having unrealistic expectations.
    09-17-19 07:41 PM
  3. Bla1ze's Avatar
    Maybe it’s not so much greed as being out of touch or having unrealistic expectations.

    I would think they’d be happy to have their intellectual property making money for them at any price point rather than sitting unmonetized.
    One would think..
    09-17-19 08:20 PM
  4. app_Developer's Avatar
    The cost of continuing this LOB isn't zero. If they continue, they have to move to Pie. That's a nonzero cost.

    OTOH, the "cost" of ending the contract early is that they get out of the business and move on. That's not such a bad outcome for shareholders.
    ppeters914 likes this.
    09-17-19 09:08 PM
  5. conite's Avatar
    While coming to terms with there being a very good chance the K2 will be the last BlackBerry produced/I own ... I'm wondering why BlackBerry isn't bending over backwards to make TCL happy ... there aren't too many companies chomping at the bit to manufacture BlackBerry handsets.

    Obviously without knowing all the details, it's impossible to know what's really going on, but I can't help but think it's just another instance of BlackBerry overvaluing themselves. Unless they are losing money on this deal, which seems unlikely, I think they're just sealing their own fate.
    Maybe it’s not so much greed as being out of touch or having unrealistic expectations.

    I would think they’d be happy to have their intellectual property making money for them at any price point rather than sitting unmonetized.

    But there is obviously a lot of information we are not privy to and a lot of variables to consider, so for all we know, it’s TCL being greedy or having unrealistic expectations.
    I assume BlackBerry set the price at whatever they determined was an acceptable ROI. Any less, and they wouldn't have bothered.

    In any event, TCL were big boys and sat down with BlackBerry and hammered out the original, mutually-satisfactory agreement.
    Jake2826 and BigAl_BB9900 like this.
    09-17-19 09:14 PM
  6. hoopitz's Avatar
    I assume BlackBerry set the price at whatever they determined was an acceptable ROI. Any less, and they wouldn't have bothered.

    In any event, TCL were big boys and sat down with BlackBerry and hammered out the original, mutually-satisfactory agreement.
    Yeah, I just wonder what's really going on. However you look at it, TCL is BlackBerry's last chance of staying in the smartphone market, so they either go to bat and really try to make it work, or finally just call it a day. I'm optimistically rooting for the former, but realistically expecting the latter. It's sad - I was really looking forward to a K3.
    phuoc likes this.
    09-17-19 11:52 PM
  7. conite's Avatar
    Yeah, I just wonder what's really going on. However you look at it, TCL is BlackBerry's last chance of staying in the smartphone market, so they either go to bat and really try to make it work, or finally just call it a day. I'm optimistically rooting for the former, but realistically expecting the latter. It's sad - I was really looking forward to a K3.
    What does "going to bat" mean? Does it mean not achieving a satisfactory ROI for its investors?

    If that's the case, better to just let it go.
    09-17-19 11:53 PM
  8. hoopitz's Avatar
    What does "going to bat" mean? Does it mean not achieving a satisfactory ROI for its investors?

    If that's the case, better to just let it go.
    It means that since BlackBerry faced any real competition in the smartphone industry, they've systematically destroyed their handset business. Some terrible decisions, bad luck and a whole lot of arrogance. They had 3 partners manufacturing their phones, and if they can keep TCL (which is seeming unlikely), they'll have 1.

    BlackBerry is lucky that any company actually sees enough value in the name to produce phones for them, and unless they have decided it's just not worth it for them anymore, they should be "going to bat" and trying to make it work for TCL. BlackBerry is just going to wind up sitting on a whole lot of patents that nobody cares about.
    phuoc, Gene Fells and Mecca EL like this.
    09-18-19 12:16 AM
  9. conite's Avatar
    It means that since BlackBerry faced any real competition in the smartphone industry, they've systematically destroyed their handset business. Some terrible decisions, bad luck and a whole lot of arrogance. They had 3 partners manufacturing their phones, and if they can keep TCL (which is seeming unlikely), they'll have 1.

    BlackBerry is lucky that any company actually sees enough value in the name to produce phones for them, and unless they have decided it's just not worth it for them anymore, they should be "going to bat" and trying to make it work for TCL. BlackBerry is just going to wind up sitting on a whole lot of patents that nobody cares about.
    You didn't actually answer my question though.
    09-18-19 12:18 AM
  10. app_Developer's Avatar
    It means that since BlackBerry faced any real competition in the smartphone industry, they've systematically destroyed their handset business. Some terrible decisions, bad luck and a whole lot of arrogance. They had 3 partners manufacturing their phones, and if they can keep TCL (which is seeming unlikely), they'll have 1.

    BlackBerry is lucky that any company actually sees enough value in the name to produce phones for them, and unless they have decided it's just not worth it for them anymore, they should be "going to bat" and trying to make it work for TCL. BlackBerry is just going to wind up sitting on a whole lot of patents that nobody cares about.
    But most of the valuable patents are not just smartphone specific. Like the cryptography patents for example. Those are still valuable and useful in many other things.

    BB isn’t trying to stay relevant in smartphones. They are much more focused on Cylance and cars and other things. This licensing was just an attempt to get some cash in the short term while those other things ramp up. That’s all this is. If it’s not generating enough cash to be worth it, BB will just move on. There is no business reason to bend over on this.
    pdr733 and rarsen like this.
    09-18-19 12:22 AM
  11. hoopitz's Avatar
    You didn't actually answer my question though.
    Of course it doesn't make sense to continue if there isn't a worthwhile ROI, but we don't know those numbers because BlackBerry doesn't disclose them.
    09-18-19 12:34 AM
  12. conite's Avatar
    Of course it doesn't make sense to continue if there isn't a worthwhile ROI, but we don't know those numbers because BlackBerry doesn't disclose them.
    Well, without those numbers, I suppose the rest is just idle chat. At the end of the day, we either believe BlackBerry is working in the best interest of its shareholders with respect of this agreement, or they aren't.
    Last edited by conite; 09-18-19 at 12:54 AM.
    09-18-19 12:37 AM
  13. bb9900user2018's Avatar
    Well, without those numbers, I suppose the rest is just idle chat. At the end of the day, we either believe BlackBerry is working in the best interest of its shareholders with respect of this agreement, or they aren't.
    Business decisions aren't always made on ROI; footprint

    Posted via CB10
    09-18-19 01:02 AM
  14. conite's Avatar
    Business decisions aren't always made on ROI; footprint

    Posted via CB10
    They are if it's the ONLY thing you do in that space.
    09-18-19 01:03 AM
  15. bb9900user2018's Avatar
    They are if it's the ONLY thing you do in that space.
    If that were the case they would have withdrawn from the handset business sometime ago - this isn't all about phones for Blackberry, there's still brand name equity in Blackberry - as long as it's not losing them money they stay and that's why I think something gets worked out with TCL/BBMo

    Posted via CB10
    09-18-19 01:09 AM
  16. conite's Avatar
    If that were the case they would have withdrawn from the handset business sometime ago - this isn't all about phones for Blackberry, there's still brand name equity in Blackberry - as long as it's not losing them money they stay and that's why I think something gets worked out with TCL/BBMo

    Posted via CB10
    BlackBerry's main businesses are and would be completely unaffected by whatever TCL does or doesn't do with the brand.

    Believe me, licencing is a PROFIT centre for BlackBerry Limited, and not a charity.

    If they can't make a satisfactory ROI, it will be dropped faster than you could imagine.
    pdr733, rarsen and BigAl_BB9900 like this.
    09-18-19 01:11 AM
  17. bb9900user2018's Avatar
    BlackBerry's main businesses are and would be completely unaffected by whatever TCL does or doesn't do with the brand.

    Believe me, licencing is a PROFIT centre for BlackBerry Limited, and not a charity.

    If they can't make a satisfactory ROI, it will be dropped faster than you could imagine.
    Yes I know we disagree here, and I understand what your saying, however I believe it's more about maintaining a footprint, even if that means breaking-even dollar-wise - there's a larger picture that Chen alluded to. No one is saying BBL is operating a chairty.

    Posted via CB10
    Sigewif likes this.
    09-18-19 01:21 AM
  18. conite's Avatar
    Yes I know we disagree here, and I understand what your saying, however I believe it's more about maintaining a footprint, even if that means breaking-even dollar-wise - there's a larger picture that Chen alluded to and that recognize. No one is saying BBL is operating a chairty.

    Posted via CB10
    Well, I can't possibly guess what that bigger plan might be then. I've always seen this licencing agreement as a last ditch effort (a hail Mary) to monetise some leftover mobile IP.
    BigAl_BB9900 likes this.
    09-18-19 01:24 AM
  19. bb9900user2018's Avatar
    Well, I can't possibly guess what that bigger plan might be then. I've always seen this licencing agreement as a last ditch effort (a hail Mary) to monetise some leftover mobile IP.
    Leverage the brand, we do it, others do it - doesn't have to be a profit center: blue sky projects, R&D aren't profit centers either.

    Posted via CB10
    09-18-19 01:36 AM
  20. conite's Avatar
    Leverage the brand, we do it, others do it - doesn't have to be a profit center: blue sky projects, R&D aren't profit centers either.

    Posted via CB10
    Leverage the brand to what end? For what? For where?

    BlackBerry's main lines of business don't need it. Cylance, UEM, and QNX-auto already have all the brand recognition they need - they are at or near the top in all 3.
    BigAl_BB9900 likes this.
    09-18-19 01:39 AM
  21. nevilleadaniels's Avatar
    After the first two major upgrades judy operating system they could chat start charging $20 per upgrade. Per unit. To the end users and take that out to the fifth major upgrade with ongoing security updates.

    And naturally no time out for those that do not take the upgrade.
    The 6 year life expectancy of the kernel would probably did it a rest .
    09-18-19 01:55 AM
  22. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Leverage the brand to what end? For what? For where?

    BlackBerry's main lines of business don't need it. Cylance, UEM, and QNX-auto already have all the brand recognition they need - they are at or near the top in all 3.
    Ring! Ring!
    Ahoy! (or was that Hoy,hoy!)..? (no not Hello)

    Well the tussle over the credit for the invention of the Telephone has been disputed from the beginning between the Canucks and the Yanks (no not hockey and baseball)...though basketball is a Canadian invention - and finally a Canadian team won the NBA championship this past year (Go Raptors!).....well okay with 90% American Players....but I digress...
    While Alexander Graham Bell was Canadian, he did work for AT&T so the link between the two countries in telephony is just that old!

    So there has always been a Canadian Telephone, Northern Telecom, then for a while there was the fancy Nortel multiline multifunction business/home phone.....and then there was the BlackBerry.
    BlackBerry HQ is less than 40km away from where the first telephone call in the World ever occured. (Brantford to Paris Ontario Canada).

    Obviously the telephone is as Canadian as Hockey and so BlackBerry must as a matter of national identity remain in the Smartphone marketplace. Two things the railroad and telephony helped forged Canada..more than almost any other country.....besides BB10 is just a really really good phone....and while BBAndroid is a compromise it is something....until something better comes along.
    That's not to say it should play it badly and bleed unnecessarily, but sometimes its necessary - though this particular situation doesn't appear to need a bloodletting.


    Maybe the next model in Canada at least should be called the "Alexandar Graham Bell" edition, or a maybe a special bb10 re-issue. Somebody running/owning BlackBerry ought to know this pedigree. You were passed the torch, don't snuff it out.
    09-18-19 02:20 AM
  23. bb9900user2018's Avatar
    Leverage the brand to what end? For what? For where?

    BlackBerry's main lines of business don't need it. Cylance, UEM, and QNX-auto already have all the brand recognition they need - they are at or near the top in all 3.
    so according to your view BBL-handset business should be done sometime this year or next or lets give it 2 yrs for good measure, ostensibly because they're not a profit center, I on the other hand disagree - so lets swap-spit next year (actually lets not do that) and compare notes in a year or two - now I'm sounding like a geologist.
    i_plod_an_dr_void and Sigewif like this.
    09-18-19 02:26 AM
  24. bb9900user2018's Avatar
    Ring! Ring!

    Obviously the telephone is as Canadian as Hockey and so BlackBerry must as a matter of national identity remain in the Smartphone marketplace.
    you got me at the telephone is as Canadian as Hockey
    i_plod_an_dr_void and Sigewif like this.
    09-18-19 02:32 AM
  25. yamahammer's Avatar
    Leverage the brand, we do it, others do it - doesn't have to be a profit center: blue sky projects, R&D aren't profit centers either.

    Posted via CB10
    It's hard to leverage a poisoned phone brand. BlackBerry Ltd is already heavy into R&D in cyber security and automotive, but there is no money nor desire to invest into phones that will have less than 0.1% of market share.
    09-18-19 02:33 AM
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