1. r0v3rT3N's Avatar
    Many people may leave BlackBerry as they are going through this tough time, however don't they remember Apple in 1997? Maybe Bill Gates saved them then, however I think RIM can save themselves now. They really aren't doing THAT bad. We have to remember that there are other countries in the world! RIM is dominating in the smartphone market in multiple other countries, and this website is a reminder of that.

    The PlayBook: At first it wasn't doing that well, however after the sale it was on fire! It now owns 15% of the Canadian tablet market, and I'm pretty sure it's 21% of India's tablet market! That is pretty good for a tablet not even released a year ago! The app gap? Don't worry about that! Like I said before this tablet was released not even a year ago! They had between 2000 and 3000 app's when this tablet was just released! Now because of Android and Native developers there is about 10,000 app's on the PlayBook! That is a good start for BB10 phones! Now that OS 2.0 is released they are now fixing a ton of bugs and apparently O.S 2.1 is already being tested internally!

    BB10: This operating system is based off the PlayBook operating system so we know multiple things about BB10 already: it can multitask, it only supports dual-core processors or higher, it will have a very high-res screen, and will support HSPA+ and LTE! That is a good head start! If the rumor's about how BB10 will be made from QNX and TAT's Cascades are true, this will be a very fluid OS! When Cascades is released for developers we will have even more quality applications! All of the 'BB10 leaks' have looked very pretty, yes? RIM know's BB10 devices will have to be quality devices or they will remain in the position they are right in now! This company isn't stupid, they just sometimes act like they are...

    After all this is said and done I think RIM will either have a VERY solid 3rd position in the market, or will always be 'fighting' with Apple and Google for the 1st and 2nd position. However, this is just my opinion. I thought I should give us some light in a dark time, with all the 'Will RIM Survive' articles...
    Last edited by r0v3rT3N; 03-17-12 at 08:45 AM.
    kbz1960, Spencerdl and alnamvet68 like this.
    03-17-12 08:37 AM
  2. TGR1's Avatar
    Optimism is fine but must be tempered with some objectivity. While certainly not impossible, as always, there are some significant "ifs" involved for your scenarios to materialize.

    Re: tablets – as has been mentioned ad nauseum on this forum, it is not at all clear that:

    1) RIM can tolerate maintaining current pricing
    2) next gen PB sales will hold with increased (and IMO, more realistic) pricing
    3) tablet sales will grow with said increased pricing

    As it is, the tablets market has not been kind to most of the competitors and it may potentially shift considerably with the advent of Windows 8 (or whatever they will call it). Please take those tablet sales figures with a considerable grain of salt, as certainly the India one is based on shipment and not sales. It's somewhat disconcerting that RIM, like Samsung or Amazon, is not being very forthcoming about actual tablet sales numbers.

    Re: BB10 – Too many ifs and zero actual data for me to be all that comfortable. As MS/Nokia are clearly experiencing, a critically admired OS is not a slam dunk for success.

    As for your last point, it will be a very long time, if ever, that RIM will be competing at the same sales level with Apple or Google. One of those two would either have to make a giant misstep or decide to exit the market. I am not dissing RIM, just being realistic. IMO, it is much more likely that RIM is going to be in a dogfight with MS/Nokia on both the phone and tablet fronts.
    03-17-12 09:58 AM
  3. berklon's Avatar
    You can't really use Apple as a comparison. Apple came out and took the lead on the portable music market with the iPod, while other companies didn't take it seriously enough. Then they took the lead with the iPhone which the competition didn't have anything close to in comparison. And the same with the iPad.

    What is RIM going to do to take the lead on a product category that the competition either doesn't have or has but is very underwhelming? With regards to a smartphone and tablet - I don't see what RIM can do that's major enough that will set themselves apart from what's already out there.

    The Playbook is for beta testing BB10 for the phones... RIM's foray into the tablet market is over. They have no chance in competing.

    It's all about BB10 phones. As great as QNX is, I fear that when it's released it'll simply be a "been there, done that" product that lacks the quality and quantity of apps. Die hard BB fans will take to it - but I'm not sure it'll have enough for people to ditch their iPhones and Android devices and the huge support that's already behind those products.

    Timing is a huge factor, and RIM missed the boat by about 2 years unfortunately.

    RIM needs a product that no-one else has, or something the competition has but RIM winds up bringing it to a whole different level which will turn heads. BB10 on a smartphone isn't enough.
    Last edited by berklon; 03-17-12 at 10:30 AM.
    03-17-12 10:27 AM
  4. r0v3rT3N's Avatar
    They released the iPod, 4 years after they were revived...

    Sent from my BlackBerry Runtime for Android Apps
    03-17-12 10:44 AM
  5. berklon's Avatar
    They released the iPod, 4 years after they were revived...
    Yes, but they were nowhere near as successful a company until the iPod took off. Without the iPod, I don't think Apple would've been able to release an iPhone and take off from there. RIM needs something as game-changing as an iPod to stop their decline.
    03-17-12 11:15 AM
  6. hootyhoo's Avatar
    It should also be noted that the actual number of Playbooks sold in india are very small. Even though they may have 21%, the number of tablets sold there are not a big factor in world wide sales.
    03-17-12 11:58 AM
  7. Economist101's Avatar
    It should also be noted that the actual number of Playbooks sold in india are very small. Even though they may have 21%, the number of tablets sold there are not a big factor in world wide sales.
    158,000 sold between October 2010 and June 2011.

    Tablet Sales in India – An Overview!
    03-17-12 12:07 PM
  8. Economist101's Avatar
    Many people may leave BlackBerry as they are going through this tough time, however don't they remember Apple in 1997? Maybe Bill Gates saved them then, however I think RIM can save themselves now.
    Apple's comeback hinged on successfully entering new markets, not making a comeback in computers. They run a very profitable computer business, but their worldwide share remains at less than 10%. Meanwhile, 3/4 of their revenue now comes from iOS products, mostly the iPhone and iPad, and if RIM is to make a similar "comeback" it's going to have to find some new markets to do well in. Unfortunately, it doesn't appear that "tablets" will be one of them.
    03-17-12 12:10 PM
  9. r0v3rT3N's Avatar
    Really, then why did Bill Gates pay them 150 million if they didn't need it?

    Sent from my BlackBerry Runtime for Android Apps
    03-17-12 12:21 PM
  10. Economist101's Avatar
    Really, then why did Bill Gates pay them 150 million if they didn't need it?
    No one said they didn't need it, but it's ridiculous to suggest that the money "saved" the company. What "saved" the company was building products they could sell at a profit. The money helped keep them going long enough to get there, but the money without a plan would have simply delayed their bankruptcy. If loaning a nearly bankrupt company $150 million today could turn it into the most valuable company in the world 15 years from now, everyone would be loaning nearly-bankrupt companies money.
    03-17-12 12:29 PM
  11. berklon's Avatar
    No one said they didn't need it, but it's ridiculous to suggest that the money "saved" the company. What "saved" the company was building products they could sell at a profit. The money helped keep them going long enough to get there, but the money without a plan would have simply delayed their bankruptcy. If loaning a nearly bankrupt company $150 million today could turn it into the most valuable company in the world 15 years from now, everyone would be loaning nearly-bankrupt companies money.
    Right on the money.

    Now the question is, what will RIM offer that's not another "me too" product in order to turn the ship around? BB10 won't do it... it's just another OS for most people.
    03-17-12 01:26 PM
  12. CairnsRock's Avatar
    You can't really use Apple as a comparison. Apple came out and took the lead on the portable music market with the iPod, while other companies didn't take it seriously enough. Then they took the lead with the iPhone which the competition didn't have anything close to in comparison. And the same with the iPad.

    What is RIM going to do to take the lead on a product category that the competition either doesn't have or has but is very underwhelming? With regards to a smartphone and tablet - I don't see what RIM can do that's major enough that will set themselves apart from what's already out there.

    The Playbook is for beta testing BB10 for the phones... RIM's foray into the tablet market is over. They have no chance in competing.

    It's all about BB10 phones. As great as QNX is, I fear that when it's released it'll simply be a "been there, done that" product that lacks the quality and quantity of apps. Die hard BB fans will take to it - but I'm not sure it'll have enough for people to ditch their iPhones and Android devices and the huge support that's already behind those products.

    Timing is a huge factor, and RIM missed the boat by about 2 years unfortunately.

    RIM needs a product that no-one else has, or something the competition has but RIM winds up bringing it to a whole different level which will turn heads. BB10 on a smartphone isn't enough.
    Well said, I agree completely. Playbook is a BB10 beta platform and the upcoming 3/4G version is a logical step in the BB10 beta process.
    03-17-12 07:17 PM
  13. Rootbrian's Avatar
    I love seeing light being shed! Good positive news. THINK of the positive side!
    03-17-12 07:53 PM
  14. soren203's Avatar
    Optimism is fine but must be tempered with some objectivity. While certainly not impossible, as always, there are some significant "ifs" involved for your scenarios to materialize.

    Re: tablets as has been mentioned ad nauseum on this forum, it is not at all clear that:

    1) RIM can tolerate maintaining current pricing
    2) next gen PB sales will hold with increased (and IMO, more realistic) pricing
    3) tablet sales will grow with said increased pricing

    As it is, the tablets market has not been kind to most of the competitors and it may potentially shift considerably with the advent of Windows 8 (or whatever they will call it). Please take those tablet sales figures with a considerable grain of salt, as certainly the India one is based on shipment and not sales. It's somewhat disconcerting that RIM, like Samsung or Amazon, is not being very forthcoming about actual tablet sales numbers.

    Re: BB10 Too many ifs and zero actual data for me to be all that comfortable. As MS/Nokia are clearly experiencing, a critically admired OS is not a slam dunk for success.

    As for your last point, it will be a very long time, if ever, that RIM will be competing at the same sales level with Apple or Google. One of those two would either have to make a giant misstep or decide to exit the market. I am not dissing RIM, just being realistic. IMO, it is much more likely that RIM is going to be in a dogfight with MS/Nokia on both the phone and tablet fronts.
    Very true what is rim going to do when the playbook 2 comes out if it is not cheap people aren't going to be very happy
    03-17-12 07:56 PM
  15. Down-Low's Avatar
    hmmm should i buy an iphone
    03-17-12 08:43 PM
  16. Rootbrian's Avatar
    hmmm should i buy an iphone
    What do you want out of a phone?
    03-17-12 08:45 PM
  17. Rootbrian's Avatar
    hmmm should i buy an iphone
    What do you want in a phone that tailers to your needs?
    03-17-12 08:46 PM
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