03-16-12 07:38 PM
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  1. Alex_Hong's Avatar
    Thanks. So to be clear, if you read the emails on the PC, the messages are marked as read instantly on your Berry. And if you delete an email from the PC, it is deleted instantly from your Berry?

    This functionality worked so so on my 9800 with a 5 hour time delay and the experience is even worse on my 9810 (i.e. takes longer if it works at all).
    i believe that is because the blackberry doesn't really pull information from the servers that often. the email is pushed to the device via NOC, when you read it on your BB it sends a read notification to the NOC, then the mail server. Which is a little irritating if you read an email on your desktop and it is not reflected on the BB. On the playbook its different though, since its activesync as well. So if you read it on your playbook it will be reflected everywhere except your BB.

    To be honest, Activesync these days are really quick as well. Probably as quick or slightly quicker than BIS by milliseconds. Plus it syncs as well. BB10 probably will be going that route too since playbook os 2.0 is already using it. So there's really no point arguing is there? peace.
    03-16-12 03:17 PM
  2. peargood's Avatar
    Thanks. So to be clear, if you read the emails on the PC, the messages are marked as read instantly on your Berry. And if you delete an email from the PC, it is deleted instantly from your Berry?

    This functionality worked so so on my 9800 with a 5 hour time delay and the experience is even worse on my 9810 (i.e. takes longer if it works at all).
    I don't ever delete emails from web, so I'm not sure about that. (Only delete on handheld)
    But this function works for reading emails on web. It's not instant Like *snap*, takes a few seconds, or delays don't last more than minutes. That's from what I remember... ...
    03-16-12 03:18 PM
  3. E92Vancouver's Avatar
    i believe that is because the blackberry doesn't really pull information from the servers that often. the email is pushed to the device via NOC, when you read it on your BB it sends a read notification to the NOC, then the mail server. Which is a little irritating if you read an email on your desktop and it is not reflected on the BB. On the playbook its different though, since its activesync as well. So if you read it on your playbook it will be reflected everywhere except your BB.

    To be honest, Activesync these days are really quick as well. Probably as quick or slightly quicker than BIS by milliseconds. Plus it syncs as well. BB10 probably will be going that route too since playbook os 2.0 is already using it. So there's really no point arguing is there? peace.
    Yes, you are right. Exchange Active Sync is the superior technology and is killing RIM. RIM now has know choice but to use Active Sync on their Playbook and OS10. Hurray!!! They are listening. Good riddance to BIS/BES.
    03-16-12 03:20 PM
  4. Foreverup's Avatar
    Yes, you are right. Exchange Active Sync is the superior technology and is killing RIM. RIM now has know choice but to use Active Sync on their Playbook and OS10. Hurray!!! They are listening. Good riddance to BIS/BES.
    Hahaha RIM is not getting rid of BIS/BES with BB10. It does way more than just have the NOC Push emails to the device. Like compression of data, pulling data from your email settings, maintaining your BBID. Also just cause it has activesync doesn't mean your typical Pop account from your ISP will make any use of activesync. So you should hope they don't rid of the NOC.

    And after your comments to Belfast if you do like this answer you can add me to that ignore list to.
    Last edited by Foreverup; 03-16-12 at 03:31 PM.
    03-16-12 03:29 PM
  5. OniBerry's Avatar
    Yeah, seems to be pretty quick, I mean I have never checked the status of one of my deleted e-mails from my handheld before(I mean right away, with the intent to time), but I have never experienced a 5 hour lag. I only use my BB, never really check my webmail. Don't go through the browser. So I am not sure what the issues may be with your account and syncing.
    03-16-12 03:29 PM
  6. peargood's Avatar
    I got tempted and tried it out. You are right! It doesn't sync from web to bb. OMG, my brains can officially be thrown away now.

    Learning new things everyday
    03-16-12 03:30 PM
  7. E92Vancouver's Avatar
    Hahaha RIM is not getting rid of BIS/BES with BB10. It does way more than just have the NOC Push emails to the device. Like compression of data, pulling data from your email settings, maintaining your BBID. Also just cause it has activesync doesn't mean your typical Pop account from your ISP will make any use of activesync. So you should hope they don't rid of the NOC.

    And after your comments to Belfast if you do like this answer you can add me to that ignore list to.
    I agree with you. BES is still important to corporations that require security. But for the consumer, BIS is being made less relevant because of Active Syncs ability to give push email to users such as Gmail customers on competing platforms.

    BTW, I found your response polite, respectful and informative unlike one other condescending poster on this forum.
    03-16-12 03:36 PM
  8. E92Vancouver's Avatar
    I got tempted and tried it out. You are right! It doesn't sync from web to bb. OMG, my brains can officially be thrown away now.

    Learning new things everyday
    Thanks for testing. I almost went out and bought a 9900!!!

    For me, this feature is important. If I am in a coffee shop and spend 45 minutes cleaning up my emails on my smartphone, I don't want to come home and have to do this again on my PC.
    03-16-12 03:36 PM
  9. reeneebob's Avatar
    Belfast, you are intentionally obtuse for the sake of arguing. If you continue to be harassing and belligerent, I will have no choice but to ignore you.
    E92, as much as this pains me, let it go. We have done this dance with Belfast before. We upload videos that prove him wrong and he continues to argue. You can provide all the proof in the world and he comes up with some new spin and ignores what you say. We (myself, accidental post and more) don't even bother because he's like a brick wall with an agenda.

    It's not worth the frustration.


    Sent from my brain using Tapatalk
    E92Vancouver and kevinnugent like this.
    03-16-12 03:39 PM
  10. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Thanks for testing. I almost went out and bought a 9900!!!

    For me, this feature is important. If I am in a coffee shop and spend 45 minutes cleaning up my emails on my smartphone, I don't want to come home and have to do this again on my PC.
    You don't have to, everything syncs from BB to PC, the other way around is the problem.
    03-16-12 03:41 PM
  11. peargood's Avatar
    Thanks for testing. I almost went out and bought a 9900!!!

    For me, this feature is important. If I am in a coffee shop and spend 45 minutes cleaning up my emails on my smartphone, I don't want to come home and have to do this again on my PC.
    I get what you mean. Lucky for me, I never have to clear my inbox, heh.

    I love me 9900 still!
    03-16-12 03:43 PM
  12. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    E92, as much as this pains me, let it go. We have done this dance with Belfast before. We upload videos that prove him wrong and he continues to argue. You can provide all the proof in the world and he comes up with some new spin and ignores what you say. We (myself, accidental post and more) don't even bother because he's like a brick wall with an agenda.

    It's not worth the frustration.


    Sent from my brain using Tapatalk
    Any chance you can stay out of this? You always have to but in.
    03-16-12 03:44 PM
  13. E92Vancouver's Avatar
    E92, as much as this pains me, let it go. We have done this dance with Belfast before. We upload videos that prove him wrong and he continues to argue. You can provide all the proof in the world and he comes up with some new spin and ignores what you say. We (myself, accidental post and more) don't even bother because he's like a brick wall with an agenda.

    It's not worth the frustration.


    Sent from my brain using Tapatalk
    Exactly! I am learning that he is not worth the time or bother. A lot of what he says is patently incorrect but the facts don't seem to matter to him. I could say Dublin is in Ireland and he would argue ad infinitum that it wasn't. Some people like to argufy. If you engage him, he gets progressively condescending and continues to debate in bad faith. Then he likes to let the insults fly as if that will get his point across. Unreal!!

    Thanks for the heads up.
    reeneebob likes this.
    03-16-12 03:53 PM
  14. Alex_Hong's Avatar
    for normal consumers, it really doesn't matter what protocol the mail servers are using to get emails, as long as it is "instant". Most would just complain why they have to pay additional fees just to get their emails, whereas on other platforms you don't have to. Plus with whatsapp now, the value of BIS is declining. Despite BBM still being the best IM client in my opinion.

    I don't see BES going away though, the security is just unbeatable at this point of time.
    What is the future of the BlackBerry Enterprise Server? Discussing the Mobile Device Management (MDM) Product Roadmap Inside BlackBerry for Business Blog
    But BIS, i'm not so sure at the moment to be honest. Though data compression does seem to be useful if you have a very limited data plan, or when you are overseas.

    Frankly, i know very little about email servers, protocols and what not. But the 2 way synchronisation of activesync does seem like a good solution. When i'm sitting infront of my desktop, i would just use the desktop to open any new emails. Which is the issue here. The notification lights are hard to ignore, so i end up having to go to my phone to mark all as read. Which = time consumed.

    ultimately, i am still standing on the sidelines.
    03-16-12 04:07 PM
  15. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Exactly! I am learning that he is not worth the time or bother. A lot of what he says is patently incorrect but the facts don't seem to matter to him. I could say Dublin is in Ireland and he would argue ad infinitum that it wasn't. Some people like to argufy. If you engage him, he gets progressively condescending and continues to debate in bad faith. Then he likes to let the insults fly as if that will get his point across. Unreal!!

    Thanks for the heads up.
    What exactly have I said in this thread that's incorrect?
    03-16-12 04:12 PM
  16. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Maybe this will explain it better to you:

    Push email - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Regardless of whether the receiver uses polling email, outgoing mail is generally pushed from the sender to the final mail delivery agent (and possibly via intermediate mail servers) using Simple Mail Transfer Protocol. However, if the receiver uses a polling email delivery protocol, the final step from the last mail delivery agent to the client is done using a poll. Post Office Protocol (POP3) is an example of a polling email delivery protocol. At login and later at intervals, the mail user agent (client) polls the mail delivery agent (server) to see if there is new mail, and if so downloads it to a mailbox on the user's computer. Extending the "push" to the last delivery step is what distinguishes push email from polling email systems. This right here, last sentence should make it clear

    Goodbye!
    Last edited by belfastdispatcher; 03-16-12 at 04:22 PM.
    03-16-12 04:19 PM
  17. E92Vancouver's Avatar
    for normal consumers, it really doesn't matter what protocol the mail servers are using to get emails, as long as it is "instant". Most would just complain why they have to pay additional fees just to get their emails, whereas on other platforms you don't have to. Plus with whatsapp now, the value of BIS is declining. Despite BBM still being the best IM client in my opinion.

    I don't see BES going away though, the security is just unbeatable at this point of time.
    What is the future of the BlackBerry Enterprise Server? Discussing the Mobile Device Management (MDM) Product Roadmap Inside BlackBerry for Business Blog
    But BIS, i'm not so sure at the moment to be honest. Though data compression does seem to be useful if you have a very limited data plan, or when you are overseas.

    Frankly, i know very little about email servers, protocols and what not. But the 2 way synchronisation of activesync does seem like a good solution. When i'm sitting infront of my desktop, i would just use the desktop to open any new emails. Which is the issue here. The notification lights are hard to ignore, so i end up having to go to my phone to mark all as read. Which = time consumed.

    ultimately, i am still standing on the sidelines.
    You are right about consumers not caring about what goes on behind the scenes but carriers care. Carriers have to pay RIM $5/subscriber per month for BIS access. Carriers don't have this cost when a subscriber has an iphone or Android because Apple and Google pay the Exchange Active Sync license cost to enable the mobiles to access an exchange enabled email server such as Gmail.

    What if carriers passed this $5 cost per month onto the consumer? It would make consumers think about which phone to buy.

    I have had Blackberries since 2003. Back the, the BIS/BES plan were a lot more expensive than the other smart phone data plans and you got way less data. RIM was greedy and now they are paying the price.
    03-16-12 04:20 PM
  18. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Here's a thought, what if MS decides to inflate the price for Exchange, what if Google decides not to pay for it anymore?

    Can anybody think of a few services that Google has pulled the plug on in the past?

    Remember Google has decided to charge for Google Maps, possible the reason Siri is not working outside US?

    I'd much rather rely on RIM complete inhouse services.
    03-16-12 04:27 PM
  19. Alex_Hong's Avatar
    Here's a thought, what if MS decides to inflate the price for Exchange, what if Google decides not to pay for it anymore?

    Can anybody think of a few services that Google has pulled the plug on in the past?

    Remember Google has decided to charge for Google Maps, possible the reason Siri is not working outside US?

    I'd much rather rely on RIM complete inhouse services.
    i think that is another plus point of BIS/BES. The NOC will monitor any type of mail server and "push" any new mails to a blackberry device. So even without exchange or IMAP...etc. the emails are pretty much "instant". Without the need for the device to actually poll for anything, saving battery and data. i think.....
    But still the problem is with getting things to syncs from PC to BB.

    am i correct in saying that???
    03-16-12 04:44 PM
  20. DenverRalphy's Avatar
    Here's a thought, what if MS decides to inflate the price for Exchange, what if Google decides not to pay for it anymore?

    Can anybody think of a few services that Google has pulled the plug on in the past?

    Remember Google has decided to charge for Google Maps, possible the reason Siri is not working outside US?

    I'd much rather rely on RIM complete inhouse services.
    Google Maps is still free. The only people that get charged are those who's websites top 25,000 map requests per day. Sure technically there's a charge, but realistically it's only charged to those who try to make a living or build a business on a free service which costs money to maintain.

    As for Microsoft... I'd seriously doubt they'd ever inflate their prices on Exchange licenses. They'd pretty much pushed the envelope on the licensing prices at its inception (and arguably would have made a lot more money in the past had they not charged as much as they did). If they were to inflate their prices, the industry would probably adapt and create a cheaper yet reliable alternative. Yes that's my own personal speculation, but I'm relatively confident in the opinion. IMHO, if Microsoft were to change their prices for licensing, they'd sooner lower the rate to encourage a faster/higher adoption rate.
    03-16-12 04:51 PM
  21. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    i think that is another plus point of BIS/BES. The NOC will monitor any type of mail server and "push" any new mails to a blackberry device. So even without exchange or IMAP...etc. the emails are pretty much "instant". Without the need for the device to actually poll for anything, saving battery and data. i think.....
    But still the problem is with getting things to syncs from PC to BB.

    am i correct in saying that???
    Yes, that's a problem and a blessing at the same time. Full sync can be dangerous.

    I like that I can delete an email from the phone but it can still stay on the server, I don't think you can have this and full sync together, surely it would really confuse things.
    Or I can save an email to the BB but delete it from the server.

    With full sync you would loose all these features. I like my BB to be an extension to the laptop, not a copy of it.
    03-16-12 04:52 PM
  22. E92Vancouver's Avatar
    i think that is another plus point of BIS/BES. The NOC will monitor any type of mail server and "push" any new mails to a blackberry device. So even without exchange or IMAP...etc. the emails are pretty much "instant". Without the need for the device to actually poll for anything, saving battery and data. i think.....
    But still the problem is with getting things to syncs from PC to BB.

    am i correct in saying that???
    Most of what you say is correct. If you have a pop account (i.e. an email address from your ISP typically), RIM servers will monitor that email every 15 minutes. This is called polling. If they find an email, they will push it to your phone. Once RIM servers find an email, they will poll every 3 minutes in case you have a conversation going back and forth.

    The fact that RIM's servers are doing the polling and not your mobile, saves battery life.

    Emails are only instant to the Blackberry if you have BES or a gmail, hotmail or yahoo account.
    03-16-12 04:52 PM
  23. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Google Maps is still free. The only people that get charged are those who's websites top 25,000 map requests per day. Sure technically there's a charge, but realistically it's only charged to those who try to make a living or build a business on a free service which costs money to maintain.

    Might explain why Apple is not using it for Siri? Outside US? Does Siri use Google Maps in US?
    03-16-12 04:54 PM
  24. reeneebob's Avatar
    Any chance you can stay out of this? You always have to but in.
    I also posted about the issues I've been having with the email being slower on my BB than my iPhone. You spun it to make it sound like I'm a liar. I have dealt with you in numerous threads where you in trying to prove iPhone users wrong (even in the iPhone sub forum no less) and you refuse to ever debate. It's your way or the highway. People have spent a lot of time providing evidence to you that you discard.

    I simply am trying to save yet another victim the headache.

    You in all the time - turnabout is fair play. But then it's only misinformation of you don't agree, when you say it well, it's factual. Even with video/empirical proof.


    Sent from my brain using Tapatalk
    03-16-12 04:55 PM
  25. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Most of what you say is correct. If you have a pop account (i.e. an email address from your ISP typically), RIM servers will monitor that email every 15 minutes. This is called polling. If they find an email, they will push it to your phone. Once RIM servers find an email, they will poll every 3 minutes in case you have a conversation going back and forth.

    The fact that RIM's servers are doing the polling and not your mobile, saves battery life.

    Emails are only instant to the Blackberry if you have BES or a gmail, hotmail or yahoo account.
    In case you missed it:

    Maybe this will explain it better to you:

    Push email - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Regardless of whether the receiver uses polling email, outgoing mail is generally pushed from the sender to the final mail delivery agent (and possibly via intermediate mail servers) using Simple Mail Transfer Protocol. However, if the receiver uses a polling email delivery protocol, the final step from the last mail delivery agent to the client is done using a poll. Post Office Protocol (POP3) is an example of a polling email delivery protocol. At login and later at intervals, the mail user agent (client) polls the mail delivery agent (server) to see if there is new mail, and if so downloads it to a mailbox on the user's computer. Extending the "push" to the last delivery step is what distinguishes push email from polling email systems. This right here, last sentence should make it clear

    Notice speed of email is not mentioned
    03-16-12 04:57 PM
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