[donnation]

Could they possibly be any worse with how they handle announcements of when they are going to do things? Aside from the standard response of updates are "coming soon," now they are saying that announcements of updates are coming soon.

I've seen many people on here post that "The Priv is getting the Marshmallow update later in the 1st quarter of this year." That's not what Blackberry said. What they said was that they were going to make the announcement of when the Priv was going to get the Marshmallow update later in the 1st quarter of the year. I've never seen a company so bad with timelines and the announcement of updates to their devices. Why not just say "The Marshmallow update for the Priv will occur in the 2nd quarter of 2015," to avoid the confusion. Now when Blackberry (in no doubt late March) makes the announcement that the update for the Priv will happen sometime in the 2nd quarter they will again not give an actual timeline and just say "sometime in the 2nd quarter," which we all know could easily be delayed until the 3rd quarter. People will then **** and moan that they were late with an update again because Blackberry is so bad at just stating when actual updates (and releases of devices) actually is. I don't know who handles their PR, but they are just plain awful with it.

[conite]

Was this a formal announcement, or did Louks just answer a question off the cuff? I didn't see the video.

[donnation]

Was this a formal announcement, or did Louks just answer a question off the cuff? I didn't see the video.

During his presentation, Louks said that "News" regarding the Marshmallow update for the Priv would happen sometime later in the 1st quarter.

[zocster]

Heavy heartedly agreeing...

[howarmat]

yeah I noticed that he wasn't even saying marshmallow would be released this quarter. I am hoping that he misspoke and he meant it would be released and not just announced then again he said priv launch was magnitudes better than anything he had seen for a BB before and yet they wouldn't give us any clue at numbers when the time came.

[anon(9742832)]

News like this is a reason why BlackBerry loses ground all the time and companies looking to upgrade handsets are starting to look elsewhere. Corporate clients and commercial users like clear time lines and clear information. People also take notice when a company continue to push its OS 10 phones on its web site, but makes to bones about the fact that they are dead end products. I know at my company when the BB rep came around pushing the new priv (we did go with a small purchase from AT&T) all they talked about was the new phone this and the new commitment. One of my tec guys asked about the commitment end. After all he told the rep we have heard this all before, my guys did not want to go with any upgrade. We did and in another post I talk about that, but in the end BB needs to get is act together, if they can't be clear and honest than just say nothing. Other companies can be clear and will post regular updates with no issues at all, even when time lines change. This smoke and mirrors is getting real old. When there is cash on the line, I spend with companies that provide real insight and info, not a maybe or a possibility.

WOOF!

[Doggerz]

BlackBerry couldn't do any worse if they tried. You can't even make this stuff up. Gotten so used to reading anything they say and knowing it's BS that it just seems normal. I really do think it's just tragic incompetence but at times it feels like they have to be planning this with some sort of malice in their dark corporate heart.

Z30STA100-5 / 10.3.2.2876 / T-Mobile USA

[JulesDB]

But it's the absolute BEST in changing plans, objectives and operating systems...

Posted via CB10

[conite]

The problem is that BlackBerry is quite a small company. When Apple makes a commitment, and they're are getting late, they just spend a few extra million and hire more developers.

BlackBerry has very limited resources - always had. They are damned if they do, and damned if they don't. They are criticised for being quiet, but also criticised for making commitments that changing priorities or unforeseen problems make it impossible to meet.

Most small business owners here know that they can't possibly meet their own promises and commitments. If you publicly acknowledge that, you're dead. You just have to dance the dance. Some people will call you out on it from time to time, but you hope it goes away.

[donnation]

The problem is that BlackBerry is quite a small company. When Apple makes a commitment, and they're are getting late, they just spend a few extra million and hire more developers.

BlackBerry has very limited resources - always had. They are damned if they do, and damned if they don't. They are criticised for being quiet, but also criticised for making commitments that changing priorities or unforeseen problems make it impossible to meet.

Most small business owners here know that they can't possibly meet all their commitments. If you publicly acknowledge that, you're dead. You just have to dance the dance.

I get what you are saying, but their constant "coming soon" and "by the end of "X" date" is really comical at this point. If they don't know for sure when the Priv is going to be updated then why comment at all? Announcing that an announcement is coming later in the 1st quarter (which really means the end of the 1st quarter) is just awful communication. Why not just announce that it will be here in the second quarter. By saying that an announcement is coming later this quarter when it will be updated it just confuses people. Many people now think its coming 1st quarter because of that statement, when only the announcement of when its coming is happening this quarter. Its pretty much saying they have no idea when the OS is going to be updated at this point but will hopefully let us know by the end of this quarter, which is not only confusing but also just plain awful communication.

[conite]

I get what you are saying, but their constant "coming soon" and "by the end of "X" date" is really comical at this point. If they don't know for sure when the Priv is going to be updated then why comment at all? Announcing that an announcement is coming later in the 1st quarter (which really means the end of the 1st quarter) is just awful communication. Why not just announce that it will be here in the second quarter. By saying that an announcement is coming later this quarter when it will be updated it just confuses people. Many people now think its coming 1st quarter because of that statement, when only the announcement of when its coming is happening this quarter. Its pretty much saying they have no idea when the OS is going to be updated at this point but will hopefully let us know by the end of this quarter, which is not only confusing but also just plain awful communication.

Perhaps.

But I've also seen a few blogs and websites report "Marshmallow coming to Priv soon!" this morning.

It may irritate us, but it will probably have a positive affect on potential customers.

[donnation]

Perhaps.

But I've also seen a few blogs and websites report "Marshmallow coming to Priv soon!" this morning.

It may irritate us, but it will probably have a positive affect on potential customers.

And what you are reading is the whole problem. We don't know that its coming soon, we know an announcement of when its coming is happening later in the 1st quarter. These blogs you're reading are most likely confused like everyone else in that what Blackberry said could be misinterpreted that the update is coming in the 1st quarter, when only the announcement of when its coming is.

[conite]

And what you are reading is the whole problem. We don't know that its coming soon, we know an announcement of when its coming is happening later in the 1st quarter. These blogs you're reading are most likely confused like everyone else in that what Blackberry said could be misinterpreted that the update is coming in the 1st quarter, when only the announcement of when its coming is.

I get that. I really do.

But in the meantime, he hasn't really promised a specific timeline (because he can't right now), but he got a ton of free publicity assuring potential customers (Priv fence sitters) that it's "coming soon".

Just doin' the dance.

[JeepBB]

December 2016, I predicted it.

BB announcing announcements, I didn't predict that because that's too stupid.

My only thought is that they did this to head off criticism because of Louks widely misinterpreted "coming in the new year" words which gave the impression Marshmallow was imminent. Its clearly not imminent.

Its been shambolic for a while but BB is now becoming farcical.

[kirson]

I get that. I really do.

But in the meantime, he hasn't really promised a specific timeline (because he can't right now), but he got a ton of free publicity assuring potential customers (Priv fence sitters) that it's "coming soon".

Just doin' the dance.

You may be right. But "just doin' the dance" can range all the way from putting a positive spin on things to outright intentional misleading information. And in the latter case, getting those Priv fence sitters to take the plunge based on this misleading information yields only a very short term sale followed by a frustrated customer, a potential returned device, lots of bad press, and continued revenue declines. When you are a multi-billion dollar public company, you don't get to just do the dance...unless you're Blackberry. I fear this will catch up with them, and end up hurting them.

[ToniCipriani]

The problem is that BlackBerry is quite a small company. When Apple makes a commitment, and they're are getting late, they just spend a few extra million and hire more developers.

BlackBerry has very limited resources - always had. They are damned if they do, and damned if they don't. They are criticised for being quiet, but also criticised for making commitments that changing priorities or unforeseen problems make it impossible to meet.

Most small business owners here know that they can't possibly meet their own promises and commitments. If you publicly acknowledge that, you're dead. You just have to dance the dance. Some people will call you out on it from time to time, but you hope it goes away.

Case in point: BB10 on Playbook.

[conite]

Case in point: BB10 on Playbook.

Yup.

They eventually discovered that they couldn't effectively scale BB10 to run on 1 GB ram. Management got ahead of the engineers on that one, and made a promise they couldn't deliver.

[anon(9742832)]

While I understand they are a small company, but there are plenty of small companies that thrive with good information and good service. The small company claims or excuses are getting old. The announcement on Marshmallow will only push people to other products. If they have no date, then say nothing. People are getting tired of maybe....possible........leaked news......consumers don't make buying decisions based on a maybe..........companies look to companies that can be upfront. Not hide behind feel good information, or claims backed without numbers. Every time Chen opens his mouth, he puts a foot in. You can't sell phones if you do not advertise and BlackBerry does not. Also you have to pay for product placement in stores, again they do not. So the customer goes into AT&T to look for a new Android....what do they see?........everything but BlackBerry.........that will sell a lot of product. Its time to stop talking and start doing.

WOOF!

[AnimalPak200]

I think the problem with BlackBerry has always been the disconnect between the technical staff and the 'planning/exec' staff. I'm pretty sure the engineers know it will take them more than the promised time to overcome significant challenges that they are not communicating to the planning folks.

The slow speed is a symptom of having too few technical personnel, but the continually missed deadlines is a symptom of lack of communication and understanding between those doing the work and those setting the deadlines.

Posted via CB10

[early2bed]

Isn't the real problem that the Priv is using a modified version of Android and that comes at a significant price namely the time it takes to develop and test the modifications and to update all of the native apps? Why not accept that the timeline for launch of the Priv version of Android will likely occur on or about the time that the new version of Android ("N____") is introduced at Google I/O in May?

[TGR1]

The problem is that BlackBerry is quite a small company. When Apple makes a commitment, and they're are getting late, they just spend a few extra million and hire more developers.

BlackBerry has very limited resources - always had. They are damned if they do, and damned if they don't. They are criticised for being quiet, but also criticised for making commitments that changing priorities or unforeseen problems make it impossible to meet.

Most small business owners here know that they can't possibly meet their own promises and commitments. If you publicly acknowledge that, you're dead. You just have to dance the dance. Some people will call you out on it from time to time, but you hope it goes away.

BBRY even now at 6000+ is not what I would call a small company, particularly since it does not include manufacturing or retail. Max was about 20k employees (19k as recently as 2011).

"mythical man-hour" -hiring developers at the last moment for a late project is not efficient. What Apple did in the past was pull from other projects. Cost is it affects the other project.

In its heyday RIM had sufficient resources but weren't under pressure so they could afford to be "wasteful" and it wasn't all that apparent. Once the market changed and they didn't, these bad habits came glaringly to light. I agree with the OP- delivery and poor control of the message have absolutely been their Achilles heel and it doesn't seem to be changing despite repeated, highly publicized episodes. That is what I find troubling.

[conite]

I think the problem with BlackBerry has always been the disconnect between the technical staff and the 'planning/exec' staff. I'm pretty sure the engineers know it will take them more than the promised time to overcome significant challenges that they are not communicating to the planning folks.

The slow speed is a symptom of having too few technical personnel, but the continually missed deadlines is a symptom of lack of communication and understanding between those doing the work and those setting the deadlines.

Posted via CB10

I agree in principle.

Although, at times, there is value to over-promising. It can keep people from making other choices.

In this case it may push people into buying a Priv, thinking they will get Marshmallow earlier that they might have otherwise thought.

Of course, if you constantly do this, it will backfire, but most of the Priv audience never paid enough attention to BlackBerry to ever notice.

[JeepBB]

I agree in principle.

Although, at times, there is value to over-promising. It can keep people from making other choices.

In this case it may push people into buying a Priv, thinking they will get Marshmallow earlier that they might have otherwise thought.

Of course, if you constantly do this, it will backfire, but most of the Priv audience never paid enough attention to BlackBerry to ever notice.

"Over-promising" is, in my book, no different to lying.

And, yes, in BB's case they have done it before and it has backfired! There are many who will never buy another BB because of the lies told over the Playbook. I'm one of them.

If folk are persuaded to buy a Priv on the "promise" that Marshmallow is imminent, and it doesn't come until late this year... well, I suspect that will be the last BB phone many of them will buy.

Lying to your customers might win you that one-time sale, but it's not much of a long-term retention strategy.

[conite]

"Over-promising" is, in my book, no different to lying.

And, yes, in BB's case they have done it before and it has backfired! There are many who will never buy another BB because of the lies told over the Playbook. I'm one of them.

If folk are persuaded to buy a Priv on the "promise" that Marshmallow is imminent, and it doesn't come until late this year... well, I suspect that will be the last BB phone many of them will buy.

Lying to your customers might win you that one-time sale, but it's not much of a long-term retention strategy.

Yup. It's a balancing act for sure.

As for the PlayBook, I sincerely believe they thought they could bring BB10.

[JeepBB]

As for the PlayBook, I sincerely believe they thought they could bring BB10.

Yes, I'm sure they thought they could too. I'm also sure that they realised that they couldn't many, many months before they let the rest of the world in on that news. Months in which continued "BB10 is coming" promises were made and off the back of which many Playbooks were sold.

I don't appreciate being lied to. Few people do.

BB is already a laughing stock with their "coming soon" promises followed (eventually) by late and flawed products. Adding to that track record of under-delivery by gaining a reputation as liars won't help.

Though gaining a reputation as a company that is so uncertain of it's own abilities and competence to meet a production timeline that it needs to announce when it is going to make a further announcement won't help either.

I'm sure that Louks' CES statement was trying to undo the damage caused by his earlier statement that appeared to promise Marshmallow "in the new year". It hasn't worked. Half of the reports I've seen are saying that BB has promised Marshmallow this quarter, the other half are laughing at BB's continued failure to produce anything to a timescale. The half that now think it's imminent are going to be disappointed, while the other half will continue to think of BB as a technically incompetent organisation.

He should have kept his mouth shut IMHO. I think he's made matters worse, added to the confusion, and is likely to cause further reputational damage to BB.