02-17-15 01:32 PM
31 12
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  1. Easy-G's Avatar
    I remember BlackBerry 10 at launch being described as a platform for a more sophisticated smartphone audience. The idea was that the modern smartphones of the iPhone age had been around for 5-6 years. The iPhone catered to the non-savvy masses. The OS was restrictive, but straightforward, little to no learning curve. Things worked as expected - hit the on screen buttons, the Home button, you'll get where you need to go and do what you need to do.

    BlackBerry 10 was designed from the ground up to bring a higher level of performance on the OS level to mobile computing. The Hub, the gestures, the File Manager, and eventually BlackBerry Blend all served to make BlackBerry 10 devices less like a toy and more like a computer capable of desktop level productivity, designed to fit in your hand.

    At risk of sounding condescending, BlackBerry overestimated the readiness of the average consumer to make the shift to a more sophisticated UI. iOS, and Android from a customization standpoint, were capable of enough advanced interactions, sometimes with workarounds or jailbreaks or the right combination of apps, to keep the more capable users happy without alienating the less savvy masses.

    I'm just throwing thoughts out there, but I see my girlfriend's parents trying to use a Z10 and it's painful - holding it in the left hand while tapping keys with the right index finger. No flick typing, no swiping into the Hub, no swipe previewing of photos to share or delete. It's lost on them. But maybe it doesnt matter at this point, maybe it never did. If BlackBerry keeps making phones with the BlackBerry 10 philosophy, I'll keep buying them. Make that high margin enterprise service revenue, keep making innovative devices that make people say "Whoa. That's a big square display. It has a capacitive physical keyboard!? IT HAS AN AUTOMATICALLY DEPLOYING CAPACITIVE PHYSICAL KEYBOARD!?!?". As long as they control their inventory and keep the hardware division in the black, all is well in my book.

    Keep doing what you're doing, BlackBerry. CrackBerry Nation is with you.

    Posted via CB10
    02-15-15 10:05 AM
  2. r81984's Avatar
    Blackberry still does not have Cisco Anyconnect app to VPN.
    So....it is still not at a sophistication level of being a business phone yet.
    02-15-15 10:11 AM
  3. ClassicSwe's Avatar
    Amen! Coming from an iphone and just having changed to BlackBerry classic (3 days) i am super Happy i've made the switch. I love the keyboard and the system. The forums are a Great help, with snap sideloaded i lack for nothing! Keep going BlackBerry!

    Posted via CB10
    02-15-15 10:14 AM
  4. Easy-G's Avatar
    Blackberry still does not have Cisco Anyconnect app to VPN.
    So....it is still not at a sophistication level of being a business phone yet.
    Agreeing with you on the app side of things, but my argument is more about the OS and UI.

    Posted via CB10
    02-15-15 10:32 AM
  5. BBUniq01's Avatar
    Agreeing with you on the app side of things, but my argument is more about the OS and UI.

    Posted via CB10
    +1

    Posted via Classic
    02-15-15 02:03 PM
  6. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    My thoughts are simple. If the BB10 UI is not intuitive or too difficult (and, IMHO, far from it), BBRY is stupid for implementing it.

    The concept that simplicity can be negative is remarkably vapid to me (not that that is what OP is saying). If being able t use a device out of the box reduces a barrier to adoption, then that is what EVERY tech company should be doing.
    shaleem likes this.
    02-15-15 02:53 PM
  7. mikegcox's Avatar
    If people were not already conditioned to the home button of iOS, BB10 might be considered intuitive. I am so used to BB10, that when I use anything else, they seem overly complicated.

    iOS when it first came out Steve said all you need to know is to hit the home button. That is not the case anymore: press home button once to get to the icon grid you were at last. Press it again to get to the first page of icons. Double Press it to get to apps that are running. Doubletap it to get you to reachability. Each of these things were afterthoughts and are all compromises.

    BB10 was designed to account for all of the things that were tacked onto iOS. After buying an Android Moto-G as a cheap Tumblr viewer, I have come to realize why Steve Jobs was so mad at Google, it is very close to the same thing.

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by mikegcox; 02-15-15 at 04:04 PM.
    02-15-15 03:29 PM
  8. GadgetTravel's Avatar
    I remember BlackBerry 10 at launch being described as a platform for a more sophisticated smartphone audience. The idea was that the modern smartphones of the iPhone age had been around for 5-6 years. The iPhone catered to the non-savvy masses. The OS was restrictive, but straightforward, little to no learning curve. Things worked as expected - hit the on screen buttons, the Home button, you'll get where you need to go and do what you need to do.

    BlackBerry 10 was designed from the ground up to bring a higher level of performance on the OS level to mobile computing. The Hub, the gestures, the File Manager, and eventually BlackBerry Blend all served to make BlackBerry 10 devices less like a toy and more like a computer capable of desktop level productivity, designed to fit in your hand.

    At risk of sounding condescending, BlackBerry overestimated the readiness of the average consumer to make the shift to a more sophisticated UI. iOS, and Android from a customization standpoint, were capable of enough advanced interactions, sometimes with workarounds or jailbreaks or the right combination of apps, to keep the more capable users happy without alienating the less savvy masses.

    I'm just throwing thoughts out there, but I see my girlfriend's parents trying to use a Z10 and it's painful - holding it in the left hand while tapping keys with the right index finger. No flick typing, no swiping into the Hub, no swipe previewing of photos to share or delete. It's lost on them. But maybe it doesn’t matter at this point, maybe it never did. If BlackBerry keeps making phones with the BlackBerry 10 philosophy, I'll keep buying them. Make that high margin enterprise service revenue, keep making innovative devices that make people say "Whoa. That's a big square display. It has a capacitive physical keyboard!? IT HAS AN AUTOMATICALLY DEPLOYING CAPACITIVE PHYSICAL KEYBOARD!?!?". As long as they control their inventory and keep the hardware division in the black, all is well in my book.

    Keep doing what you're doing, BlackBerry. CrackBerry Nation is with you.

    Posted via CB10
    They didn't overestimate anything. They vastly underestimated the degree to which the ecosystem became the product rather than the handset. People messed around with phones when they had to. What they really wanted was to do what they wanted to do with their stuff (everything from contacts to project management data). BB just doesn't have that ecosystem.
    02-15-15 04:35 PM
  9. GadgetTravel's Avatar
    Agreeing with you on the app side of things, but my argument is more about the OS and UI.

    Posted via CB10
    Which virtually don't matter. Symbian fans used to talk about how much better the OS was than Android and iOS as well. Doesn't matter. More or less at all.
    Easy-G likes this.
    02-15-15 04:37 PM
  10. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    They didn't overestimate anything. They vastly underestimated the degree to which the ecosystem became the product rather than the handset. People messed around with phones when they had to. What they really wanted was to do what they wanted to do with their stuff (everything from contacts to project management data). BB just doesn't have that ecosystem.
    I agree.
    02-15-15 04:59 PM
  11. Easy-G's Avatar
    Which virtually don't matter. Symbian fans used to talk about how much better the OS was than Android and iOS as well. Doesn't matter. More or less at all.
    It's kind of crazy that the UI doesn't matter. I've been imagining how I could shift to Android, iOS, or Windows Phone. I think to myself, "How can I claw back what I'll lose from my Z30?". I neeeeeeed the Hub. Nothing will replace a swipe into the Hub. Maybe if there's a bottom-up-swipe notification centre, along with Snowball messenger, and Outlook for Android I would have a working compromise. Flick typing is not happening on other platforms and nothing else compares - not Swype, not Swiftkey. I'd like for BlackBerry to bring their virtual keyboard to other OS's to be honest. File Management and desktop clients are replaceable, but I really like Blend and where it's going. I'm locked into PC for my work software and I'm looking forward to Windows 10, so getting an iPhone without a Mac would feel like I was always falling short of its maximum potential. Windows 10 Phone might be worth a go, we'll see. Gizmodo's recent article on the "new features" looked very BB10 inspired - fine cursor control, actionable notifications, the settings menu. But then you're out of luck when it comes to Android apps and services. I'm locked into BlackBerry 10 for the foreseeable future and am quite happy here, hehe

    Posted via CB10
    nick13b likes this.
    02-15-15 06:24 PM
  12. GadgetTravel's Avatar
    It's kind of crazy that the UI doesn't matter. I've been imagining how I could shift to Android, iOS, or Windows Phone. I think to myself, "How can I claw back what I'll lose from my Z30?". I neeeeeeed the Hub. Nothing will replace a swipe into the Hub. Maybe if there's a bottom-up-swipe notification centre, along with Snowball messenger, and Outlook for Android I would have a working compromise. Flick typing is not happening on other platforms and nothing else compares - not Swype, not Swiftkey. I'd like for BlackBerry to bring their virtual keyboard to other OS's to be honest. File Management and desktop clients are replaceable, but I really like Blend and where it's going. I'm locked into PC for my work software and I'm looking forward to Windows 10, so getting an iPhone without a Mac would feel like I was always falling short of its maximum potential. Windows 10 Phone might be worth a go, we'll see. Gizmodo's recent article on the "new features" looked very BB10 inspired - fine cursor control, actionable notifications, the settings menu. But then you're out of luck when it comes to Android apps and services. I'm locked into BlackBerry 10 for the foreseeable future and am quite happy here, hehe

    Posted via CB10
    I just don't see much of a difference in UI. I use iOS primarily and BB and sometimes Android. I just don't get it when people make a big deal about the hub. Maybe a bit nicer than the built in mail app in iOS in some ways, but that's about it. Certainly nothing close to as significant as all of the cross device apps I would lose with BB10 if that was my sole phone.
    02-16-15 05:08 AM
  13. lnichols's Avatar
    Agreeing with you on the app side of things, but my argument is more about the OS and UI.

    Posted via CB10
    Yes but without the apps, then you are basically just at a better functioning BBOS device, which is great at communications and being productive with communications. I love BB10 but I'm not seeing a clear future for it without an improved app situation because the other platforms can do everything BlackBerry can, even if it isn't as elegant, but they can destroy BlackBerry in the app situation.

    Posted via CB10
    02-16-15 06:44 AM
  14. --TommesJay--'s Avatar
    Yes but without the apps, then you are basically just at a better functioning BBOS device, which is great at communications and being productive with communications. I love BB10 but I'm not seeing a clear future for it without an improved app situation because the other platforms can do everything BlackBerry can, even if it isn't as elegant, but they can destroy BlackBerry in the app situation.

    Posted via CB10
    It's more and more transitioning from a gap problem to a distribution problem IMO. Why? Because the Android runtime in BB10 really has come a long way. I get apps through SNAP and they really work like a charm on the Passport with 10.3.1 already. They even support background updates and notifications through the HUB with functional redirection from the HUB to the app as well as data sharing between the native apps and Android apps. BUT you don't get regular users to engage with a platform that's basically dependent on some shady sideloading stuff...

    Well I for one am very happy with the situation.

    Posted via CB10
    02-16-15 07:32 AM
  15. emanuscript's Avatar
    I'm in love with BB10 and I'm happy being back button free!!! Keep the gesture based OS, and advertise the HUB more it's the best part of BB10, It's genius!!!! Also the OS updates keep the phone feeling fresh!!!!! I have had my Z10 since 2013, and when my contract is up, I'm either grabbing a Z30 (if it doesn't feel too big in hand) or I'll just but another Z10. The form factor is perfect for me.

    Posted via CB10
    02-16-15 08:19 AM
  16. BBUniq01's Avatar
    If people were not already conditioned to the home button of iOS, BB10 might be considered intuitive. I am so used to BB10, that when I use anything else, they seem overly complicated.

    iOS when it first came out Steve said all you need to know is to hit the home button. That is not the case anymore: press home button once to get to the icon grid you were at last. Press it again to get to the first page of icons. Double Press it to get to apps that are running. Doubletap it to get you to reachability. Each of these things were afterthoughts and are all compromises.

    BB10 was designed to account for all of the things that were tacked onto iOS. After buying an Android Moto-G as a cheap Tumblr viewer, I have come to realize why Steve Jobs was so mad at Google, it is very close to the same thing.

    Posted via CB10
    Trying to close running apps in the background for iOS8 was ridiculous. My husband has the iPhone 6 for work and complained about it non stop for the first couple of weeks.

    Posted via Classic
    02-16-15 08:30 AM
  17. Bbnivende's Avatar
    As much as I like BB10, I would not recommend it. For instance some days my Android apps will fire up quickly and some days I need a hard boot. This may be related to anti virus checked. My point is that after owning a BlackBerry so long, I can live with these issues.


    I am willing to put up with some inconveniences but my spouse would not. She has her iPhone.
    Last edited by Bbnivende; 02-16-15 at 08:59 AM.
    02-16-15 08:44 AM
  18. anon1727506's Avatar
    Trying to close running apps in the background for iOS8 was ridiculous. My husband has the iPhone 6 for work and complained about it non stop for the first couple of weeks.

    Posted via Classic
    Yeah... it's just so difficult to double press the home button and swipe up the apps you want to close

    While on BB10 you really have to go into device monitor to find the apps that are running in the background... very surprising sometimes.
    JeepBB likes this.
    02-16-15 08:50 AM
  19. GLTruesdale's Avatar
    So is Blackberry the Porsche of smartphones? I kind of like the fact that I don't see someone with the same phone as me every time I step out the house. Yes, a phone is a phone but new Blackberries come across as more exclusive and "official" than other Smartphones to me.

    Posted via CB10
    02-16-15 10:52 AM
  20. Easy-G's Avatar
    So is Blackberry the Porsche of smartphones? I kind of like the fact that I don't see someone with the same phone as me every time I step out the house. Yes, a phone is a phone but new Blackberries come across as more exclusive and "official" than other Smartphones to me.

    Posted via CB10
    If it's a Porsche designed BlackBerry, then yes I agree, it's more exclusive in the same way the iPhone is more exclusive - nobody but BlackBerry makes BlackBerries, nobody but Apple makes iPhones. Android and Windows Phone have so many OEMs. I definitely like being able to show off the way we do things on a BlackBerry 10 phone. Most people don't give a second thought to the fact that there are other ways - sometimes better ways - of using a smartphone.

    Posted via CB10
    GLTruesdale likes this.
    02-16-15 11:27 AM
  21. BBrickk's Avatar
    The Blackberry 10 OS can be used with and without the gestures. I've noticed that through out the updates. Yet, we wondered why there's a Hub icon. The gestures are there for the daring, but if someone is not interested then they aren't forced to.
    02-16-15 11:43 AM
  22. Easy-G's Avatar
    The Blackberry 10 OS can be used with and without the gestures. I've noticed that through out the updates. Yet, we wondered why there's a Hub icon. The gestures are there for the daring, but if someone is not interested then they aren't forced to.
    As you say, the updates prove the company began back pedaling to accommodate users who were not comfortable with gestures to navigate the device.

    Posted via CB10
    02-16-15 01:10 PM
  23. dwisetyoaji's Avatar
    Now I remember for this thread:

    http://forums.crackberry.com/showthread.php?t=991789

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    02-16-15 01:16 PM
  24. lnichols's Avatar
    It's more and more transitioning from a gap problem to a distribution problem IMO. Why? Because the Android runtime in BB10 really has come a long way. I get apps through SNAP and they really work like a charm on the Passport with 10.3.1 already. They even support background updates and notifications through the HUB with functional redirection from the HUB to the app as well as data sharing between the native apps and Android apps. BUT you don't get regular users to engage with a platform that's basically dependent on some shady sideloading stuff...

    Well I for one am very happy with the situation.

    Posted via CB10
    I use SNAP too, on 10.2.1. The issue I see is Google is convincing more and more developers to tie into Play Services which either makes the performance of the app on BB10 sub par, or the app won't work at all. I already can't update to the latest in many apps because what used to work stopped, and this is with the Cobalt mods in place. I see the Android runtime becoming less useful over time as Play Services keep becoming a bigger part of Android apps. I'm sure people will keep making workarounds, but eventually Google will get things locked down IMHO.

    Posted via CB10
    02-16-15 04:57 PM
  25. Bbnivende's Avatar
    It is all hindsight now but think there was still a window if opportunity in the fall of 2011.

    They should have fully adopted Android apps for their Playbook.

    The new all touch phone could have been based on a mobile version of the Playbook and had Android apps in the BlackBerry store.

    I would have kept on selling and developing BBOS PKB models until BBX was mature.
    02-16-15 04:58 PM
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