01-23-18 12:21 AM
98 123 ...
tools
  1. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Back in the stone age when BlackBerry phones were almost exclusively enterprise devices issued to certain employees to get stuff done when away from their desks, it was understood that users would spend most of their time scanning messages and typing away furiously to get essential communications to the people who needed information to get their jobs done. BlackBerry phones were considered to be investments in productivity.

    If you watch most mobile users today, you will primarily see people scrolling through rich media content and watching video, with a few quick tweets or comments thrown in. It's rare to see someone who spends 75-90% of their time typing anymore.

    One big reason is that people in 2018 use phones more for connectivity than productivity. The mainstream market is for people who use their phones to "stay in touch" with their friends, family and coworkers via messages and social networking apps.

    There is nothing wrong with that, and the best phone for this mainstream market is one that emphasizes the display over the keyboard (virtual or physical), because users spend more time scrolling through feeds and navigating between apps than they spend typing.

    BUT, for those of us who spend a lot more time producing than consuming content on our mobile devices, it would be nice to see at least one phone optimized for typing first, and viewing second.

    This is what is completely missing in today's phones. We haven't seen a single Android or iOS device that considers writing to be the "killer app."

    The reason for this is NOT that effective writing is less valuable today. In fact, with content marketing being the primary business model for many companies, rapid, effective writing is MORE valuable than ever.

    The simple reason is that helping users write faster and better is LESS PROFITABLE than having them consume media on apps. We have phones that prioritize the app business model and not the productivity of users.

    That's the source of much of my personal frustration with both Android and iOS, and why I think of them as consumption and connectivity devices, rather than productivity devices.

    And THAT is why we have huge Frankenstein phones that prioritize seeing over doing, and why some of us refuse to give up BBOS and BB10 phones that are simply better for writing, with clean, uncluttered monochrome interfaces and almost half the device dedicated to the keyboard.

    I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on this topic.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Gallofa, rayporsche, Kuruz and 5 others like this.
    01-16-18 05:22 PM
  2. sorinv's Avatar
    Back in the stone age when BlackBerry phones were almost exclusively enterprise devices issued to certain employees to get stuff done when away from their desks, it was understood that users would spend most of their time scanning messages and typing away furiously to get essential communications to the people who needed information to get their jobs done. BlackBerry phones were considered to be investments in productivity.

    If you watch most mobile users today, you will primarily see people scrolling through rich media content and watching video, with a few quick tweets or comments thrown in. It's rare to see someone who spends 75-90% of their time typing anymore.

    One big reason is that people in 2018 use phones more for connectivity than productivity. The mainstream market is for people who use their phones to "stay in touch" with their friends, family and coworkers via messages and social networking apps.

    There is nothing wrong with that, and the best phone for this mainstream market is one that emphasizes the display over the keyboard (virtual or physical), because users spend more time scrolling through feeds and navigating between apps than they spend typing.

    BUT, for those of us who spend a lot more time producing than consuming content on our mobile devices, it would be nice to see at least one phone optimized for typing first, and viewing second.

    This is what is completely missing in today's phones. We haven't seen a single Android or iOS device that considers writing to be the "killer app."

    The reason for this is NOT that effective writing is less valuable today. In fact, with content marketing being the primary business model for many companies, rapid, effective writing is MORE valuable than ever.

    The simple reason is that helping users write faster and better is LESS PROFITABLE than having them consume media on apps. We have phones that prioritize the app business model and not the productivity of users.

    That's the source of much of my personal frustration with both Android and iOS, and why I think of them as consumption and connectivity devices, rather than productivity devices.

    And THAT is why we have huge Frankenstein phones that prioritize seeing over doing, and why some of us refuse to give up BBOS and BB10 phones that are simply better for writing, with clean, uncluttered monochrome interfaces and almost half the device dedicated to the keyboard.

    I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on this topic.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    I agree. There is nothing more productive than the passport at producing content.
    I am more productive with papers and editing theses and managing files than on my macbook.
    But like you say, most people don't work on their phones. They just watch.

    Posted via CB10
    Qorax likes this.
    01-16-18 05:58 PM
  3. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Here goes minus the sarcasm. I agree with your statement. I believe the KEYone is the attempt to do as you describe with productivity while attempting commercial success.
    jsimon208 likes this.
    01-16-18 06:02 PM
  4. Ment's Avatar
    Or companies have found that employees are 'getting the job' done with vkb along with apps, often on their own devices so buying pkb or requiring them for their employees doesn't make corporate or dollars sense.

    I think you might be extrapolating your own workflow to that of others.
    TGR1, cribble2k, Mecca EL and 2 others like this.
    01-16-18 06:20 PM
  5. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Or companies have found that employees are 'getting the job' done with vkb along with apps, often on their own devices so buying pkb or requiring them for their employees doesn't make corporate or dollars sense.

    I think you might be extrapolating your own workflow to that of others.
    No, I am not doing that at all! I know that many people can "get the job done" on today's phones. That's the mainstream market.

    My point is that most of those people are not actually producing a lot of content, either for internal or external consumption. They are using phones mostly to stay connected to people and consume content. That's great for them, and I don't want to change the phones they use.

    Also, I don't think VKB vs. PKB really matters much. I've worked mostly on a VKB for the past five years.

    The issue is that neither iOS or Android are interested in people who use their phones primarily for writing because those people don't generate as much money for them as people who download and use apps and other content.

    We have phones designed to maximize profit for the app stores.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Last edited by bb10adopter111; 01-16-18 at 11:37 PM.
    rayporsche and ppeters914 like this.
    01-16-18 06:32 PM
  6. Ment's Avatar
    No, I am not doing that at all! I know that many people can "get the job done" on today's phones. That's the mainstream market.

    My point is that most of those people are not actually producing a lot of content, either for internal or external consumption. They are using phones mostly to stay connected to people and consume content. That's great for them, and I don't want to change the phone's they use.

    Also, I don't think VKB vs. PKB really matters much. I've worked mostly on a VKB for the past five years.

    The issue is that neither iOS or Android are interested in people who use their phones primarily for writing because those people don't generate as much money for them as people who download and use apps and other content.

    We have phones designed to maximize profit for the app stores.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Perhaps you're bemoaning larger societal changes. People consume less written material these days, thus the market for written content that span multiple pages is less and workflow has adapted to this. Communicating in less than a paragraph is done fine with in IOS/Android.
    pdr733 and Mecca EL like this.
    01-16-18 06:56 PM
  7. meilenstein's Avatar
    You use what works for you. There's no need for any of us - including you - to justify your choices.
    Mecca EL, hjc73734 and elfabio80 like this.
    01-16-18 07:00 PM
  8. G_Unit MVP's Avatar
    My job doesn't require to be writing or creating content, but I know what you mean. When I was younger I used to have a gig writing articles for a tech magazine, and it didn't cross my mind -not even for a second- to write content or articles on a phone. I would never do that kind of heavy writing on a phone. In my opinion that is unconfortable, unproductive and unhealthy. Even with an amazing device like the Passport.

    For productivity, nothing beats a desktop computer, with a proper keyboard, a proper screen and a proper chair to allow a comfortable writing position.
    ppeters914, Qorax and Mecca EL like this.
    01-16-18 07:05 PM
  9. Emaderton3's Avatar
    It's also quite possible that those who do a lot of writing simply don't want to do it on a phone. I certainly don't in my profession.
    Wezard and Mecca EL like this.
    01-16-18 07:56 PM
  10. DallinCrump's Avatar
    I agree with you, OP. It is, indeed, much more profitable to facilitate content consumption over content creation on phones, which is why phones have gone all-touch and have only gotten bigger.

    Another reason I believe BBOS and BB10 phones were snubbed by app developers is that they weren't as accommodating to tracking and collecting personal data (browsing habits, contacts, location, etc.) for the purposes of monetization. Android and iOS were much more lucrative for developers in that regard.

    I wouldn't spend money on a KEYone, but if one happened to find its way to me as a gift I would probably find a use for it. There are things I enjoy about using iPhones and Androids, but I am deeply concerned about the negative aspects of modern smartphones, these devices and the apps that run on them have been designed to capture our attention quickly and for as long as possible because the longer you are engaged with them, the more personal data can be collected and monetized.

    "Legacy" BlackBerry devices (BB10 and older) were designed with a different purpose in mind - private and secure mobility. When I'm using one, I consider the lack of popular apps to be a desired feature, not a drawback.

    Also, I have never been able to type as well on a screen as I can with a BlackBerry physical keyboard. Try as I might to use swiping, flicking, auto-correct, and auto-complete, I have always preferred to type out each word in its entirety with auto-correct and auto-complete disabled. I guess that's just how my brain works.


    Posted from my BlackBerry Bold 9930
    rayporsche likes this.
    01-16-18 09:07 PM
  11. valer466's Avatar
    Things change with time. What worked once will not work forever.
    Mecca EL and Troy Tiscareno like this.
    01-16-18 10:19 PM
  12. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Well, yes, I suppose it's possible that people may stop using writing to communicate eventually, but we're a long way from that happening.

    The point isn't that the past was better. Saying that is just as stupid as saying the present is better.

    The point is that the design of the tools we use has a tremendous effect on how we use them. A phone that is well designed for typing (vkb or pkb) will encourage typing. A phone that is better designed for swiping, scrolling, and pressing icons will encourage that behavior.

    Apple and Google get paid when people install and use apps, "freemium" and paid content and browse commercial web sites. They don't get paid when people write emails to each other. The result is phones that are poorly designed for writing, with too much screen and fulcrums that place the thumbs far from the ideal typing position.
    01-16-18 11:15 PM
  13. G_Unit MVP's Avatar
    Well, yes, I suppose it's possible that people may stop using writing to communicate eventually, but we're a long way from that happening.
    But your original post was about creating content, not just communicating. I think most of Blackberry users agree that the physical keyboard is a more "robust" implementation. At least I do. Nothing more enjoyable that firing up emails with a keyboard...

    Apple and Google get paid when people install and use apps, "freemium" and paid content and browse commercial web sites. They don't get paid when people write emails to each other. The result is phones that are poorly designed for writing, with too much screen and fulcrums that place the thumbs far from the ideal typing position.
    Agree 100% with this.
    rayporsche likes this.
    01-16-18 11:23 PM
  14. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    It's also quite possible that those who do a lot of writing simply don't want to do it on a phone. I certainly don't in my profession.
    Sure, I would never use a phone to type if I didn't have to. There's no question that typing on a computer is superior in terms of speed, accuracy and access to supplemental tools, but the whole reason I carry a smart phone is so that I can communicate effectively when away from a computer. Over the past 14 years, I calculate that I've written over 10 million words on my Blackberries for my employers and clients, most of them in short to medium length emails.

    I write between 750,000 and 1,000,000 words a year on my phone (and more than that on my computer), so the ergonomics and design matter a lot to me. Heck, I write more than 100,000 words a year just on CB, almost all of it on my phones!
    01-16-18 11:24 PM
  15. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    In this photo, my middle three fingers are positioned under the fulcrum of my KEYone so that it is balanced. Look where my thumb is positioned in relation to the keyboard! This is a terrible device for serious typing in terms of efficiency, ergonomics and injury prevention.

    Using the KEYone with two hands doesn't fix the problem, as the balance is still all wrong, so that you have to engage a lot of small muscles just to keep the phone optimally positioned for typing with the thumbs.

    Ironically, the pop up VKB is almost perfectly positioned for typing on the KEYone, so the KEYone is actually the best VKB phone currently on the market in terms of typing ergonomics!

    The Bigger Problem with BlackBerry and Android-keyone-fulcrum.jpg
    01-16-18 11:32 PM
  16. conite's Avatar
    I spend much of my day typing on my KEYᵒⁿᵉ. I actually prefer typing on it to a full size keyboard.

    I have seen no loss in productivity since moving from BBOS to BB10 to Android with respect to "content creation". If anything, it has improved, as sharing between apps and with the cloud is vastly more capable.

    I'm also not a young pup anymore, and the larger screen is almost a necessity for me now.

    Being able to deal with social media, news consumption, or technical drawings and such, without having to put my phone down, gets me back to my "content creation" more quickly.
    Bbnivende and Mecca EL like this.
    01-16-18 11:40 PM
  17. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I spend much of my day typing on my KEYᵒⁿᵉ. I actually prefer typing on it to a full size keyboard.

    I have seen no loss in productivity since moving from BBOS to BB10 to Android with respect to "content creation". If anything, it's improved as sharing between apps and with the cloud is vastly more capable.

    I'm also not a young pup anymore, and the larger screen is almost a necessity for me now.

    Being able to deal with social media, news consumption, or technical drawings and such, without having to put my phone down, gets me back to my " content creation" more quickly.
    First, I'm happy that so many people have phones that they enjoy using and that facilitate their work and lives. I am not indicting mainstream phones that are much more useful than old-school Blackberries for anything to do with the Web, photographs, technical drawings, etc.

    All I'm saying is that those of us that really do type plain text in large quantities on our phones all day long are being expected to do so on devices that are not as well designed for that narrow purpose as phones a decade or more older.

    I'm not talking about which phones I like vs. which phones someone else likes. I'm saying that by prioritizing the HD display to facilitate the app store model, based on consuming content, modern smartphones have deprioritized the ergonomics of typing.

    If you have to grip a phone to keep it from toppling out of your hand, or if you have to use additional muscles to put your thumbs in the ideal typing position, then that phone is ergonomically inferior to one that balances naturally in the hand with the thumbs in the correct typing position.

    The KEYone is my favorite Android phone, by a wide margin, but it's still not as good a phone for pure text entry and editing as my Bold 9900 or Z10, both of which have superior ergonomics for typing.

    Of course, the KEYone is a far more flexible tool, which makes it a superior phone for many users, and that's great. But physics and biomechanics are not opinions. Using the KEYone for, say, two hours of straight typing on a train, is more stressful than using a purpose built text production appliance like the Bold 9900.

    It makes sense that the majority of cell phones emphasize the display. They sell better, and Apple/Google make more money post-sale from their HD-display devices. But it sure would be nice if there was one phone on the market optimized for written communications.
    01-16-18 11:56 PM
  18. conite's Avatar
    First, I'm happy that so many people have phones that they enjoy using and that facilitate their work and lives. I am not indicting mainstream phones that are much more useful than old-school Blackberries for anything to do with the Web, photographs, technical drawings, etc.

    All I'm saying is that those of us that really do type plain text in large quantities on our phones all day long are being expected to do so on devices that are not as well designed for that narrow purpose as phones a decade or more older.

    I'm not talking about which phones I like vs. which phones someone else likes. I'm saying that by prioritizing the HD display to facilitate the app store model, based on consuming content, modern smartphones have deprioritized the ergonomics of typing.

    If you have to grip a phone to keep it from toppling out of your hand, or if you have to use additional muscles to put your thumbs in the ideal typing position, then that phone is ergonomically inferior to one that balances naturally in the hand with the thumbs in the correct typing position.

    The KEYone is my favorite Android phone, by a wide margin, but it's still not as good a phone for pure text entry and editing as my Bold 9900 or Z10, both of which have superior ergonomics for typing.

    Of course, the KEYone is a far more flexible tool, which makes it a superior phone for many users, and that's great. But physics and biomechanics are not opinions. Using the KEYone for, say, two hours of straight typing on a train, is more stressful than using a purpose built text production appliance like the Bold 9900.

    It makes sense that the majority of cell phones emphasize the display. They sell better, and Apple/Google make more money post-sale from their HD-display devices. But it sure would be nice if there was one phone on the market optimized for written communications.
    Ergonomics is not the same for all. It depends on your typing style, your physical attributes, and your personal preferences.

    Eliminating all other tasks, I type plain text and "create" faster on my KEYᵒⁿᵉ than on any former BlackBerry device - and I've had them all.
    pdr733 likes this.
    01-17-18 12:03 AM
  19. co4nd's Avatar
    I never considered my Curve a good device to write on other than short texts and short emails. I would say I was only marginally more effective on it than I am today on my iPhone. Truth be told I hate typing on either. I do have to write content for distribution fairly often but when I do I always use a laptop or a desktop computer. And I don't really like laptops much either, though their exponentially better than any phone. There is really nothing better for serious writing than a full size mechanical keyboard. Most of the people I'm in contact with in my job have Laptops and are never to far away from them. Some use tablets with keyboard covers.

    I think you represent a niche of users that need physical keyboards on very portable devices and I see that as rather rare, especially with the variety of laptops and tablets available. The sales numbers on blackberries are evidence of this. I think for most of us for the limited text we produce on our phones iOS and Android is fine.

    In my job I see people continually have to revamp their workflows with every new version of windows or office or some other software they rely on, and complain how tasks are harder. I see organizations that implement ERP software and disrupt every workflow and seemingly make peoples jobs harder. I've seen both of these legitimately make peoples jobs harder. And I almost always see most people adapt and adjust to the new reality and make it all work for them. The fact is no matter how productive you think that BB10 devices makes you you're going to have to learn to use something else because it ain't coming back.
    pdr733 and Mecca EL like this.
    01-17-18 12:09 AM
  20. zer0ten's Avatar
    Totally agree with the OP. PKB devices should still have a place in the world. All laptops still have the PKB.

    But they have to put out a product with better specs. Snapdragon 625 and 3 GB of RAM just doesn't cut it.
    01-17-18 12:14 AM
  21. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I think it's interesting that so many readers assume I'm saying that PKBs are better than VKBs. I'm not, and I don't think that. I've used both PKBs and VKBs heavily for 14 years, and I don't have a preference.

    My issue is with the placement of PKBs at the very bottom of huge glass slabs like the KEYone or PRIV. These devices are Frankenstein compromises IMO that are in no way optimized for typing.

    The best typing experience I've found on Android is the VKB on the KEYone because it is positioned in the middle of the screen, exactly where the thumbs fall naturally while balancing the KEYone in two hands.
    01-17-18 12:35 AM
  22. lloupez's Avatar
    I've used my Passport to type like crazy, making summaries of articles I've read online and also during studying in college. I was encouraged to type by good memo apps and the best keyboard on a phone. DNote mad my habit worse. Lol. I could even touch-type on my Passport which I can't do on a VKB. Having a laptop is indeed good but I don't always want to bring my Macbook anywhere God forbid it get lost or stolen. To me OP you describe the essence of BlackBerry - those of us who wanted a phone that does what our laptops did but with added features like those keyboard shortcuts to sweeten the productivity potential. Ok you can program keyboard shortcuts on Windows and OS X but it wasn't implemented on a phone until BlackBerry. My old BlackBerry phones had so many memos that kept growing and growing as I got other BlackBerry phones - memos about things to do in a nearby town I've been to many times, memos about what the doctor told me, and the aforementioned school notes, etc. Something like over 700 memos and they were long. On previous BlackBerry devices I would max out the memo limit. While I could do this on an iPhone or Android, it's the traditional BlackBerry devices that have emphasized good typing productivity which is why I'm waiting for a good-enough Android device - I tried the KeyOne and after the Passport I can't deal with it. I tried Android and Windows Phone and went right back to BlackBerry because typing was a punishment and I can't always talk to type and it wasn't always that great to use to begin with. I wouldn't even consider Android if it weren't for the BlackBerry apps now available. There is now an Indiegogo project called Planet Gemini which is an any-network usable phone with a mini laptop-like keyboard complete with programable shortcuts and dual-boot Linux and Android for sale soon. Might want to check it out. So, trust me. I know exactly what you're talking about. We are mostly niche people here. Type on bro. PS having a VKB on BlackBerry isn't that bad either and when I got a Z30 I continued to type notes or look for excuses to type. As we all know, BlackBerry was all about typing and productivity. I, too, am weary of Orwellian app spying to monetize you data. I don't trust this anymore than government spying. This is partly why I'm still on BB10 still and having gone running to Google just yet.

    Posted via CB10
    01-17-18 01:07 AM
  23. Bbnivende's Avatar
    The folks I know who are all much younger than me, all use VKB's. None would would switch to a PKB. Most can type incredibly fast.

    It us hard to go to a PKB , if you always have used a VKB. I do not accept that certain phones are inherently more productive than others. Some users are more productive.

    I do agree that the best feature of a BlackBerry phone , both models , is the keyboard. That is what they should advertise.
    Mecca EL and pdr733 like this.
    01-17-18 01:26 AM
  24. dastillero1975's Avatar
    Back in the stone age when BlackBerry phones were almost exclusively enterprise devices issued to certain employees to get stuff done when away from their desks, it was understood that users would spend most of their time scanning messages and typing away furiously to get essential communications to the people who needed information to get their jobs done. BlackBerry phones were considered to be investments in productivity.

    If you watch most mobile users today, you will primarily see people scrolling through rich media content and watching video, with a few quick tweets or comments thrown in. It's rare to see someone who spends 75-90% of their time typing anymore.

    One big reason is that people in 2018 use phones more for connectivity than productivity. The mainstream market is for people who use their phones to "stay in touch" with their friends, family and coworkers via messages and social networking apps.

    There is nothing wrong with that, and the best phone for this mainstream market is one that emphasizes the display over the keyboard (virtual or physical), because users spend more time scrolling through feeds and navigating between apps than they spend typing.

    BUT, for those of us who spend a lot more time producing than consuming content on our mobile devices, it would be nice to see at least one phone optimized for typing first, and viewing second.

    This is what is completely missing in today's phones. We haven't seen a single Android or iOS device that considers writing to be the "killer app."

    The reason for this is NOT that effective writing is less valuable today. In fact, with content marketing being the primary business model for many companies, rapid, effective writing is MORE valuable than ever.

    The simple reason is that helping users write faster and better is LESS PROFITABLE than having them consume media on apps. We have phones that prioritize the app business model and not the productivity of users.

    That's the source of much of my personal frustration with both Android and iOS, and why I think of them as consumption and connectivity devices, rather than productivity devices.

    And THAT is why we have huge Frankenstein phones that prioritize seeing over doing, and why some of us refuse to give up BBOS and BB10 phones that are simply better for writing, with clean, uncluttered monochrome interfaces and almost half the device dedicated to the keyboard.

    I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on this topic.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    True. But real problem with BlackBerry is that they have Android, which is an open source OS, and they refused to really customize it to make it productive.
    rayporsche likes this.
    01-17-18 01:31 AM
  25. conite's Avatar
    True. But real problem with BlackBerry is that they have Android, which is an open source OS, and they refused to really customize it to make it productive.
    That's purely subjective.

    Personally I like a minimalist approach over heavy-handed skins/launchers.

    You also have to adhere to Material Design to maintain Google certification.
    Bbnivende likes this.
    01-17-18 01:40 AM
98 123 ...

Similar Threads

  1. BlackBerry KeyNOTE Device
    By n1nj4Lo in forum BlackBerry Concepts & Dream Devices
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 02-27-18, 09:15 AM
  2. Sold my BlackBerry keyone and got a leap
    By BB10lover79 in forum BlackBerry Leap
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 01-28-18, 06:14 AM
  3. Replies: 12
    Last Post: 01-18-18, 04:57 PM
  4. How do I voice call a contact from the Phone setting?
    By R1945 in forum BlackBerry KEYone
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 01-16-18, 05:38 PM
  5. Blackberry Link will not open on Windows 7
    By jpetrasovic in forum BlackBerry Classic
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-16-18, 03:08 PM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD