1. micksh's Avatar
    Hi! I just got my first BlackBerry (9100) and I like it.
    However, I'm using grandfathered dumbphone unlimited data plan. I don't want to switch to BIS plan because there is no unlimited BIS and it is more expensive.

    BB browser works well (as opposed to many comments here). BB e-mail, maps, BB protect don't work though.
    BB e-mail only offers me to setup account with BES server which I don't have access to.

    I have Windows Server 2008 R2 running at home 24/7 and I have a license for MS Exchange server. If I set it up and download free BES Express will I be able to use it?
    My plan is to setup gmail, hotmail and other e-mail accounts through Exchange and BES so I can utilize BB e-mail client and maybe get push notifications.

    I have read "What is 'BES' & 'BIS'" and "BES and BIS: What's the Difference?" threads. I'm still unsure if BES requires any support from cell service provider.

    - Will it work without BIS plan?
    - Is it doable to set up BES Express with Exchange Server for a person without special knowledge? Or, would BlackBerry Email and MDS Services Simulator Package be sufficient and simpler?
    03-25-11 01:58 PM
  2. MobileMadness002's Avatar
    The short answer is you CANNOT have BES with BIS.
    03-25-11 02:05 PM
  3. NetworkGuy's Avatar
    You need the BIS plan to get the correct service books downloaded to your phone from your provider. Without these books, your phone won't do much. BES just adds a couple more service books to allow your phone to activiate with a BES server
    Last edited by NetworkGuy; 03-25-11 at 02:33 PM.
    03-25-11 02:31 PM
  4. micksh's Avatar
    The short answer is you CANNOT have BES with BIS.
    Thanks
    So, in my case BES should work on dumbphone data plan and carrier wouldn't even know I have BES, right?
    Has anyone tried to accomplish what I'm planing? Setup free BES Express for personal use?
    03-25-11 02:31 PM
  5. NetworkGuy's Avatar
    Thanks
    So, in my case BES should work on dumbphone data plan and carrier wouldn't even know I have BES, right?
    Has anyone tried to accomplish what I'm planing? Setup free BES Express for personal use?
    See my answer above..

    You still need BIS to get BESX working.
    03-25-11 02:35 PM
  6. micksh's Avatar
    You need the BIS plan to get the correct service books downloaded to your phone from your provider. Without these books, your phone won't do much. BES just adds a couple more service books to allow your phone to activiate with a BES server
    But BB e-mail client still offers me to connect to BES e-mail service. Why would it do that if I don't have correct books?
    And, for example, BB Maps app is completely missing on my device. That tells me that my BB is somehow limited.

    It's interesting. I bought unlocked BB from Canada. And AT&T somehow added its shortcuts to AT&T mall, media net, etc. It added AT&T Media Mall service book and other books too. But it didn't switch me to BIS plan automatically and I would like to keep it that way.

    I read this
    https www wireless att com /support_static_files/KB/KB49057.html

    And I see that I have
    Provisioning [PROVISIONING] Contains information to enable or disable the Enterprise Activation icon for devices using BlackBerry Handheld Software 4.0 and later.

    I don't have
    BES or Desktop [CMIME] *
    Contains information required to send/receive e-mail messages and perform functions, such as wireless e-mail reconciliation.

    But it says "The corporate e-mail service books may also be manually sent for the appropriate configuration" and there is a link to "Generating an encryption key manually using BlackBerry Enterprise Server."
    https www wireless att com /support_static_files/KB/KB48733.html

    I thought If I had a BES server I might be able to upload service books myself, no?
    If not, is there a workaround for adding missing service books?
    03-25-11 02:51 PM
  7. DangerMouseUK's Avatar
    Phone will nearly always have Enterprise Activation menu before BIS service books are pushed. Doesn't mean anything at all.

    For BES Express you need either BIS or BES service plan.

    For BES you need BES service plan

    There is no way you will get the phone working with BES without having BIS or BES on the phone, it really is that simple.

    Its not just a matter of you copying the service books over, if the service is not active at the carrier level, it will not work period.

    My suggestion, stop wasting time thinking about this, if you are planning on setting up a BESX server with Exchange 2010 you have a lot more pushing things to think about.

    Also as mentioned in another post there are issues with the SRPs being generated by RIM at the moment which will make your BESX server a bit faulty, to ensure trouble free setup I suggest you wait a few days before downloading and registering for BESX.

    Trust me on this one though, you will not get this working without a BES or BIS service activated by your carrier.
    03-25-11 05:53 PM
  8. Motorcycle Mama's Avatar
    There's NO work around.

    Even with your own BES server, you still need a plan data from a carrier.
    03-25-11 06:21 PM
  9. micksh's Avatar
    you will not get this working without a BES or BIS service activated by your carrier.
    Thanks, I understand it now.
    I was encouraged a bit by phrase "you CANNOT have BES with BIS" since I don't need it "with", I need "without".
    I will return to this when/if AT&T finds out that I'm using smartphone and forces me to use BIS data plan.
    03-25-11 06:23 PM
  10. DangerMouseUK's Avatar
    Realistically I'd just take the plunge and activate BIS, you really can't use a BlackBerry effectively without a BIS plan or BES plan with a BES hookup.

    There are a lot of other phones that outperform a BB when the BB is not hooked up at the carrier level.

    However the choice is yours, and I'm just giving advice.

    If you do take a plunge into the BESX/Exchange route, as mentioned in another recent post, I suggest you do not host it on a home connection there are numerous reasons why you shouldn't but basically its a bit of a no no for email routing, home dynamic IPs along with IP block lists and the like, there's many articles out there so I'm sure Google will help you.

    Also take note with what I said above and the issuing of SRPs !
    03-25-11 07:22 PM
  11. Jaguarr40's Avatar
    What about the new app that was just posted on CB that is now in app world that allows you as long as you have a BIS data plan to get a passcode from your Work IT person and activate through BIS from your BB.

    It said you simply DL the app to your BB and provide your email and passcode issued. This will DL the service books you need and there you go. BIS and BES.
    This has happened since there are no longer any taxes involved with BES.
    03-25-11 07:55 PM
  12. DangerMouseUK's Avatar
    Its not exactly like that - but no one was arguing whether you can hook up a BESX server to a phone with a BIS plan.

    All that app does is allow wireless activation, something that wasn't permissable before with BESX and a BIS plan. Before you had to do it over WIFI or USB and now this app allows over the wireless network.

    And off the record, BIS plans have long been known to work with BES it's not really big or clever though.

    The only thing a BES plan used to bring to the BESX party was wireless activation.
    03-25-11 08:17 PM
  13. micksh's Avatar
    Realistically I'd just take the plunge and activate BIS, you really can't use a BlackBerry effectively without a BIS plan or BES plan with a BES hookup.

    There are a lot of other phones that outperform a BB when the BB is not hooked up at the carrier level.
    Blackberry Pearl 9100 is good enough for me without BIS.
    No other smartphone is better for me because I don't like big touchscreen phones, I need something smaller with physical numeric keypad. OEMs don't make such smartphones anymore.

    The only major inconvenience is lack of BB e-mail client. But, I still use gmail app and mobile web mail. Will try other client apps like LogicMail.

    Only Blackberry-branded apps like BB maps don't work. But Google maps and Trapster work, as well as all other 3rd party apps.
    BB travel doesn't work but WorldMate Lite does. I'll manage without BB protect. And BB browser worked out of the box (I prefer Opera mini 6, though).
    I don't think I'm missing much without BIS. Am I wrong and I miss something else important?

    What about the new app that was just posted on CB that is now in app world that allows you as long as you have a BIS data plan ...
    That's the thing - I don't want BIS because AT&T does not offer unlimited data with BIS plans.
    In fact, I don't need BES either. I only wanted to use BESX as a workaround to get BB e-mail client working with my personal e-mail.
    Last edited by micksh; 03-25-11 at 08:22 PM.
    03-25-11 08:20 PM
  14. DangerMouseUK's Avatar
    As a general rule of thumb, any app that will work over the carrier APN and not the BlackBerry Gateway will work fine on your phone, like Opera Mini et all.

    If the formfactor is a perfect fit for you then really and truly stick with it, but to me having a BlackBerry without the push email, or the BB messenger, takes 50% of the reason why I like the BlackBerry away. The apps available for a BB are not as "polished" as on an iPhone for example or even some Android apps, so the major push towards a BB is its instant push connectivity, something that will only happen when connected via RIM.

    As I said though, each to their own, and everyone is allowed their own personal preference. If it works for you as it is, then thats good enough !

    I don't live in the US, in the UK all carriers BIS plans are unlimited subject to fair usage, they say data caps, but can't reliably enforce them. Another thing is, how much data do you expect to get through, are you media streaming or something, as I rarely even go near 300-400mb a month on my BB and I consider myself a heavy user.
    03-25-11 08:28 PM
  15. micksh's Avatar
    ...to me having a BlackBerry without the push email, or the BB messenger, takes 50% of the reason why I like the BlackBerry away. The apps available for a BB are not as "polished" as on an iPhone for example or even some Android apps...
    BB Messenger seems to work OK without BIS. I created an account and logged in. I have no use for it, though, because none of my friends use it.
    Skype and ICQ work well through IM+ Lite.

    Yes, lack of push e-mail seems to be the major drawback. I can live with that because of the reasons below.

    I know about apps, I have Android tablet for toys. For cellphone I would rather have Spartan set of apps, but dependability, decent call quality, small form factor, good screen and battery life - that's what I think BB 9100 has.
    In weak reception this little candy bar holds signal stronger than my friend's iPhones that are almost twice as large.

    I don't live in the US, in the UK all carriers BIS plans are unlimited subject to fair usage, they say data caps, but can't reliably enforce them. Another thing is, how much data do you expect to get through, are you media streaming or something, as I rarely even go near 300-400mb a month on my BB and I consider myself a heavy user.
    300-400MB is way more than average for Blackberry users, but for iPhone/Android users it's about average, I think. At least in US and depending on what study to believe.
    I used about the same on my dumbphone. Apart from regular web and RSS news it is mostly map data transfer for Trapster and some internet radio. Will be more with BB because it has so good battery life.

    It all is about possible emergency need in internet access. I travel a lot and if there is no local Wi-fi I need to tether. With tethering I may exceed maximum AT&T 2GB/month allowance for BIS/smartphone. It is OK with my existing unlimited dumbphone plan but it is costly with BIS plan. And I hate the idea of limited internet in general.

    As I've heard, at some point in future, AT&T eventually will discover that I'm using smartphone and will switch me to limited BIS plan. Then I will enjoy all Blackberry benefits for the price of losing unlimited data.

    Thanks a lot everyone for the help!
    03-26-11 02:36 AM
  16. DangerMouseUK's Avatar
    I hear you bro, and as I said - its all down to the users personal preference at the end of the day, what works for you, works for you.

    If you do ever decide to go down the BESX/BES route, I'd be more than happy to help you out.

    Good luck with whatever situation you decide to stick with !
    03-26-11 11:30 AM
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