03-21-12 01:22 AM
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  1. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Keyboard makes typing faster, although WP7 touch kb is very good, but I never used nor needed to use shortcuts.

    Honestly, I've never even thought about doing what you describe as an example... and I have multiple email inboxes, im chats, etc going.
    You never thought oppening a number of apps from home screen by simply pressing a button would be handy? Tasks, yahoo messenger, calculator, options, address book, search, memos, google talk, help, password lock phone, calendar, windows live messenger, compose, saved messages, browser, bbm and messages folder can be opened with one button. All buttons are also speed dials.

    Fast typing is only half the story.
    03-18-12 10:52 AM
  2. doejoe007's Avatar
    You never thought oppening a number of apps from home screen by simply pressing a button would be handy? Tasks, yahoo messenger, calculator, options, address book, search, memos, google talk, help, password lock phone, calendar, windows live messenger, compose, saved messages, browser, bbm and messages folder can be opened with one button. All buttons are also speed dials.

    Fast typing is only half the story.
    Nope, I just don't see how short cuts on keyboard are a bonus... and if that's the only thing that makes BB better than WM7... I'm sorry, RIM has already lost.

    If I had to name one thing about BB that makes me want to curb stomp it... the install/uninstall process for the apps. WM I can install/reinstall/uninstall apps in seconds. On BB I have to wait 20 minutes for the damned thing to reboot.

    I thought BB was great... but after using WM7.5 for a couple months, no way I'm ever going back to RIM Ecosystem. I even have a playbook... whose new "email" client is world behind what is on WM7.

    It all comes down to being fast, efficient, fluid vs slow/backwards.

    Sure, BBOS has a very nice email/calendar client... So does every other platform, what else does BB have? The apps suck, the devices are slow, the camera in my 9930 sucked compared to my new WP7 phone, etc.

    Oh there is BBM... whoopty doo
    03-18-12 11:09 AM
  3. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Maybe so but I can compose/respond to emails, set calendars, dial contacts, set memos, browse(overall with shortcuts and trackpad I navigate faster then on a full touch, even PlayBook, no need to zoom in to hit small or close together links) far faster on my 9900 then on any other platform.

    How fast I can install and uninstall apps is not a priority for me and never will be.
    Dapper37 likes this.
    03-18-12 11:20 AM
  4. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    Windows Live Messenger and Facebook with Facebook Chat are native apps, they come with the OS, check your facts mate. In fact I had to delete WLM as it installed it automatically.



    All Inboxes link automatically into the Messages folder.
    No. They're third party separate apps that need to be Installed and may or may not be preinstalled on the phone. 90% of the time those icons are only links ti the app in BB app world. This is stock functionality on Windows phone.

    I've owned a bb you can't fool me on that. :-D

    Windows phone has configurable linked in boxes. A bit different from bb.

    Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
    Last edited by N8ter; 03-18-12 at 11:44 AM.
    03-18-12 11:41 AM
  5. Dapper37's Avatar
    Looks like I ended up calling out or wp7 friends. Sorry, it was not my intesion. Looks to me that RIM actually offers something different with their eco system though, as aposed to being the 3rd apple? Imo.
    Last edited by Dapper37; 03-18-12 at 12:32 PM.
    03-18-12 11:53 AM
  6. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    No. They're third party separate apps that need to be Installed and may or may not be preinstalled on the phone. 90% of the time those icons are only links ti the app in BB app world. This is stock functionality on Windows phone.

    I've owned a bb you can't fool me on that. :-D

    Windows phone has configurable linked in boxes. A bit different from bb.

    Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
    Dude, I'm not talking about the virtual preload icons pushed as service books by carriers, Facebook, Twitter, Google Talk, Yahoo Messenger, Windows Live Messenger are apps made by Research in Motion(not third party) and they come as part of the OS and they integrate fully into the OS.

    You are wrong, sorry to burst your bubble.

    Edit- two ways you can get WLM on a BB, one from Appworld the other from the OS using desktop Manager, please notice who is the maker of the app
    Last edited by belfastdispatcher; 03-18-12 at 01:01 PM.
    03-18-12 12:01 PM
  7. doejoe007's Avatar
    Maybe so but I can compose/respond to emails, set calendars, dial contacts, set memos, browse(overall with shortcuts and trackpad I navigate faster then on a full touch, even PlayBook, no need to zoom in to hit small or close together links) far faster on my 9900 then on any other platform.

    How fast I can install and uninstall apps is not a priority for me and never will be.
    Good for you.

    I can respond to emails in seconds, I use my tablet to browse web (no need to zoom), dialing contacts is literally 2 taps on a WP7, etc.

    You should go to ATT store and try out some WP7 phones... Unless you're a hardcore diehard physical keyboard junkie, you'll be surprised at just how backwards BB experience really is, WP7 can literally do everything a BB can (bar BBM) and do it faster/better.
    03-18-12 01:05 PM
  8. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Good for you.

    I can respond to emails in seconds, I use my tablet to browse web (no need to zoom), dialing contacts is literally 2 taps on a WP7, etc.

    You should go to ATT store and try out some WP7 phones... Unless you're a hardcore diehard physical keyboard junkie, you'll be surprised at just how backwards BB experience really is, WP7 can literally do everything a BB can (bar BBM) and do it faster/better.
    Would you call people who buy laptops or desktop computers "hardcore diehard physical keyboard junkie"? If you do then consider me one, yes.
    03-18-12 01:13 PM
  9. doejoe007's Avatar
    Would you call people who buy laptops or desktop computers "hardcore diehard physical keyboard junkie"? If you do then consider me one, yes.
    I don't see your logic there... apples and oranges.
    03-18-12 01:26 PM
  10. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    I don't see your logic there... apples and oranges.
    I agree. Touch typing on a computer (or typewriter) keyboard is nothing like typing on a physical keypad or a virtual keypad on a mobile phone.
    03-18-12 01:29 PM
  11. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    I don't see your logic there... apples and oranges.
    My point was that I don't choose physical keyboard because I'm a hardcore diehard junkie, I choose it because it works best, everything else slows me down, way down.

    Of course, if you don't learn it properly ie all the shortcuts you are not taking full advantage of it so a virtual keyboard might not seem so bad. But using shortcuts you double your speed of everything you do on a Blackberry. If you don't use them you are seriously missing out.

    I remember N8ter left BB before he figured out you can hold a letter down to capitalize it and actually started a thread to complain he had to press caps to capitalize. Just an example, not picking on him.
    03-18-12 01:37 PM
  12. ubizmo's Avatar
    I have a WP phone, the Radar. I like it, and I think it is going to give RIM some real competition worldwide. But it's not there yet. Notifications in WP are barebones, for one thing. No auto-text. Can't rename photos on the device. No text reflow when zoomed in the browser. No settable system font or size. And BB's keyboard shortcuts really are a Big Deal.

    But as I say, I still like WP and I'm glad I have one. I think it has huge potential, if some of these shortcomings get fixed. And MS seems to be getting the key apps on board, which is a concern about bb10.


    Sent from my Radar 4G using Board Express
    03-18-12 02:20 PM
  13. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    I just watched a WP7.5 email demo, here's the problems I saw straight away(could be wrong though as I only go by the video):

    1. No options to reply, reply all or forward without opening the email first.
    2. Even when you open the email the options are not there on the main screen, you have to bring up another screen with them
    3. I see no "forward as" option to forward an email as sms, mms, I M client etc
    4. No find on page option to find a key word in an email
    03-18-12 02:37 PM
  14. ubizmo's Avatar
    I just watched a WP7.5 email demo, here's the problems I saw straight away(could be wrong though as I only go by the video):

    1. No options to reply, reply all or forward without opening the email first.
    2. Even when you open the email the options are not there on the main screen, you have to bring up another screen with them
    3. I see no "forward as" option to forward an email as sms, mms, I M client etc
    4. No find on page option to find a key word in an email
    You're correct on all counts, although I wouldn't describe any of these as "problems", with the possible exception of forwarding the email as something else, which I've never done but can imagine doing. No two platforms will do things the exact same way, and it's true that the BB keyboard allows for all kinds of efficiencies throughout the system. It's a big reason why the 9900 continues to be my main device.

    And WP, even now, does have some advantages over BBOS, notably it's integrated Office and SkyDrive features. It's predictive text is very good, but not as good as the Playbook's! But much better than BBOS's.

    As I said above, I think WP is very promising, and the fact that the Marketplace has more than 70,000 apps in so short a time shows how aggressively MS has been courting developers. To be sure, many of them are pretty poor, but there are also quite a few good ones, including some of the "name" apps: Skype, Kindle, Netflix, a good quality YouTube app, Amazon, Spotify, PageOnce, EverNote (not really needed with OneNote baked in), OpenTable, etc etc. Audible has indicated that their app should be ready this month.

    My concern for BB is that the BB platform is essentially stalled while everyone waits for BB10. MS and Nokia are using the time to generate interest, and HTC is on board and even Samsung is putting another WP horse into the race. So WP is gaining momentum, which makes it even more important for BB10 to work well and have a decent complement of apps right out of the gate.
    03-18-12 03:22 PM
  15. doejoe007's Avatar
    I just watched a WP7.5 email demo, here's the problems I saw straight away(could be wrong though as I only go by the video):

    1. No options to reply, reply all or forward without opening the email first.
    2. Even when you open the email the options are not there on the main screen, you have to bring up another screen with them
    3. I see no "forward as" option to forward an email as sms, mms, I M client etc
    4. No find on page option to find a key word in an email
    1. Yep. Do you often reply to emails without reading them? Tapping an email takes a second and you get access to those options.
    2. You click respond and it pops up a menu with reply/reply all/ forward. I see nothing wrong with thise.
    3. I've been using email since 1997, have been in mobile space since 2005 and I've NEVER seen anyone needing to or wanting to do this.
    4. I can see this being useful for some emails, but if an email is 1000+ words long I pull out my laptop.

    MS looked at common scenarios used by most consumers and optimized the **** out of them. RIM on the other hand seemed to optimize for obscure power users.

    Guess which ones are the top market?
    03-18-12 04:40 PM
  16. ubizmo's Avatar
    MS looked at common scenarios used by most consumers and optimized the **** out of them. RIM on the other hand seemed to optimize for obscure power users.

    Guess which ones are the top market?
    At the moment, neither. It's not that RIM optimized for "obscure power users" at all. But the presence of the keyboard makes possible a lot of things, so there's a higher ceiling for power users to find very efficient ways of getting things done. This is a strength of the BBOS, not a weakness.

    I'm 58 years old. I wear glasses. On my 9900 I can set the default system and browser fonts to what I like; on the HTC Radar I can't. Is this trivial? Not unless you assume that everyone using these phones is under 30 with perfect eyesight. So this is a real weakness of WP7. We just don't know if it'll be fixed in WP8.

    The more we use these devices, the more important the details of the human-device interactions become. If extended use causes eyestrain, that's not good. Android has Swype and a number of other installable keyboards available as apps. This is a strength of Android, because it allows people to choose how they interact with the device with their fingers. BBOS doesn't have this, but it does have various keyboard customization apps, such as ShortcutMe and QuickLaunch, and it's no accident that a lot of people use these.

    If I want to record a voice memo and send it in a highly compact .amr file as an email attachment, there's a native BB app for that. In WP I have to upload a .wav or .one file, which is much larger (and therefore more of a battery drain) to SkyDrive or some other cloud and then email a link.

    And BBOS has auto-text (Android has an app for it), which allows the user to create a personal shorthand if he wants. This is what I've done, and it accelerates my text input hugely. WP doesn't have it. Does that make me an obscure power user? Maybe. My Danger SideKicks had the same "obscure" feature, which is where I learned to appreciate the power of it, if you take it beyond fixing common typos.

    Another nice thing in BBOS is the way apps can put new options into system-wide menus. I don't think WP has any such capability. I don't know whether BB10 will either. This raises questions of the extent to which BB10 will have to give up features that BB users have gotten used to. We don't know, just as we don't know what WP8 will have.

    At the moment, BBOS is still a more versatile OS than WP7, and that's not surprising considering their relative levels of maturity.

    The people at MS aren't stupid. They've done something creative and crafted a new OS with its own distinctive look and feel. It's inevitable that some people won't have a good reaction to it at first, but I think it'll at least secure a place in the market as a true alternative and not just a clone of something else. What's more, the OS is built efficiently enough that devices with modest specs provide a smooth high-spec user experience--in contrast to the low-spec Android devices out there. MS is pouring resources into this, along with Nokia, and inch by inch getting some traction. With "Tango" devices they are competing head-on with RIM in the emerging markets, which is a very smart move.

    I'm not so interested in "which is better". My 9900 is still my main phone, for lots of reasons. But I really like what MS is doing with WP. I think they're being smart and making the right moves.
    03-18-12 05:46 PM
  17. Searzy's Avatar
    Yet they get a pass in the American media
    1.6% of the WW smart phone maket gets kinder reponces in the media than RIMs 16%.
    The media still likes to talk about how much better wp will get in the future, so much so they like to point out how poor RIM doesn't stand a chance.
    I call BS and am just highlighting the double if not triple standard RIM has to bare in the American media. I wonder why? But I guess I know.
    SO TRUE!!

    It's cause RIM isn't a Yankee Co., based in Silicon Valley.

    Had new RIM CEO Hiens been Hanson from America, RIM would get a break.
    03-18-12 07:07 PM
  18. Searzy's Avatar
    I had an HTC WM 6.1 Touch Diamond for only 3 reasons:

    1). TouchFlo 3D was sweet! (later became Sense)

    2). Phone design - was unique and original

    3). Most importantly - it had MS Office Mobile. Outlook Mobile sync'd perfect with desktop, and Office Mobile (Word, Excel, PowerPoint) had a fair amount of the desktop features.

    That WP selling point. Office. Plus, now they threw in xbox. Windows Media Player Mobile / Zune make viewing videos on your device from the net sometime much smoother.

    The WM OS was customizable (but for a programmer person who does it for kicks), but lacked apps, and had no app standards / uniformity - Apples strength.

    Android is successful because of customizing "open source". Every improvement Droids get is some new customization that someone did for kicks. A case of "can you top that". For free.

    But this open source has pitfalls - fragmentation / multiple versions and malware threats.
    Droid programming standards are now being implemented.

    WebOS is attempting the "open source" too, and I wouldn't be surprised if it caught on.

    ANYWAYS...

    IF the UI on a BB was more attractive and customizable, more people would buy it. These "outline" icons are lame.

    QNX is VERY nice for ease of use, but I haven't seen any visual eye candy from it.

    IF RIM licensed MS Office Mobile, plus with added BES BB security, and had a dedicated media program like WinMedia / Quicktime, it would win hands down.
    Last edited by Searzy; 03-18-12 at 07:40 PM.
    03-18-12 07:37 PM
  19. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    SO TRUE!!

    It's cause RIM isn't a Yankee Co., based in Silicon Valley.

    Had new RIM CEO Hiens been Hanson from America, RIM would get a break.
    I know right? That's why they gave Palm a pass too. The press American press loves Palm, HP and GMC. As long as it is an American company, performance means nothing.
    03-18-12 07:49 PM
  20. Villain's Avatar
    in termsof sales yeah RIMS ahead BUT have you actually used a wp& device? lmao is mangles and destroys every aspect of BBOS. myself I pumped for the nokia lumia 900 to release in canada and sell the 2 9900's I have.

    besides BBM I honestly can't think of one single asspect bbos has over wp7... apps vs apps is a sin to compare and even email is now laughable


    myself I useto frequently switch between my 9700 and LG optimus quantum but my LG got stolen.
    03-18-12 07:58 PM
  21. lnichols's Avatar
    I like what I see in the Playbook more than what I see in WP. I would hope that WP7, which isn't an iteration of any previous version of WP unlike BBOS 7 is better. Would be sad if they couldn't top and OS at the end of its lifecycle. Let's see how WP7.5 or 8 stacks up to BB10. Will be interesting to see how things shake out in the near future.
    03-18-12 08:36 PM
  22. Laura Knotek's Avatar

    If I want to record a voice memo and send it in a highly compact .amr file as an email attachment, there's a native BB app for that. In WP I have to upload a .wav or .one file, which is much larger (and therefore more of a battery drain) to SkyDrive or some other cloud and then email a link.
    Windows does not have any native program to play .amr files. Unless one has RealPlayer installed, he cannot listen to those voice notes if he is using a PC to check his email. The .amr files are great for sending voice notes to other BlackBerry users, but they are not good to send to folks who might be using a Windows PC.
    03-18-12 09:56 PM
  23. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    At the moment, neither. It's not that RIM optimized for "obscure power users" at all. But the presence of the keyboard makes possible a lot of things, so there's a higher ceiling for power users to find very efficient ways of getting things done. This is a strength of the BBOS, not a weakness.

    I'm 58 years old. I wear glasses. On my 9900 I can set the default system and browser fonts to what I like; on the HTC Radar I can't. Is this trivial? Not unless you assume that everyone using these phones is under 30 with perfect eyesight. So this is a real weakness of WP7. We just don't know if it'll be fixed in WP8.

    The more we use these devices, the more important the details of the human-device interactions become. If extended use causes eyestrain, that's not good. Android has Swype and a number of other installable keyboards available as apps. This is a strength of Android, because it allows people to choose how they interact with the device with their fingers. BBOS doesn't have this, but it does have various keyboard customization apps, such as ShortcutMe and QuickLaunch, and it's no accident that a lot of people use these.

    If I want to record a voice memo and send it in a highly compact .amr file as an email attachment, there's a native BB app for that. In WP I have to upload a .wav or .one file, which is much larger (and therefore more of a battery drain) to SkyDrive or some other cloud and then email a link.

    And BBOS has auto-text (Android has an app for it), which allows the user to create a personal shorthand if he wants. This is what I've done, and it accelerates my text input hugely. WP doesn't have it. Does that make me an obscure power user? Maybe. My Danger SideKicks had the same "obscure" feature, which is where I learned to appreciate the power of it, if you take it beyond fixing common typos.

    Another nice thing in BBOS is the way apps can put new options into system-wide menus. I don't think WP has any such capability. I don't know whether BB10 will either. This raises questions of the extent to which BB10 will have to give up features that BB users have gotten used to. We don't know, just as we don't know what WP8 will have.

    At the moment, BBOS is still a more versatile OS than WP7, and that's not surprising considering their relative levels of maturity.

    The people at MS aren't stupid. They've done something creative and crafted a new OS with its own distinctive look and feel. It's inevitable that some people won't have a good reaction to it at first, but I think it'll at least secure a place in the market as a true alternative and not just a clone of something else. What's more, the OS is built efficiently enough that devices with modest specs provide a smooth high-spec user experience--in contrast to the low-spec Android devices out there. MS is pouring resources into this, along with Nokia, and inch by inch getting some traction. With "Tango" devices they are competing head-on with RIM in the emerging markets, which is a very smart move.

    I'm not so interested in "which is better". My 9900 is still my main phone, for lots of reasons. But I really like what MS is doing with WP. I think they're being smart and making the right moves.
    The most epic reading comprehension failure I've ever seen on this forum.

    He asked which market was the top market... The consumer market or the business market. He was not talking about the companies or OSes in question.

    The iPhone phenomenon clearly illustrates which market is running things in mobile right now. It's all about consumer, even increasingly so in the workplace these days.

    And to the person upthread. Those apps are third party apps, they aren't stock functionality. Last time I went into an AT&T store and clicked on WLM on a BB7 device it went to AppWorld and wanted me to install. Third party refers to the app not being integrated into the OS as a simple feature of the OS - like the WP7 Messaging Hub. In that case, there is literally nothing to install. FBC and WLM is built into the base OS. It will work even if you have 0 applications installed, just like the stock email client or browser will work.
    03-18-12 10:10 PM
  24. n8ter#AC's Avatar
    That WP selling point. Office. Plus, now they threw in xbox. Windows Media Player Mobile / Zune make viewing videos on your device from the net sometime much smoother.
    The WP7 selling point is Office + Zune + Xbox (love using my phone as a remote :P ) + SkyDrive + Office WebApps + Exchange/SharePoint/Office365 in addition to the fact that Microsoft will be migrating more and more Windows features to Mobile in the future.

    In short, the ecosystem is the selling point - on a whole.

    Android benefitted much from the fact that the iPhone was only on one carrier here and people were yearning for an alternative that BB and WinMo could not provide. Google's ecosystem is still relatively weak especially when it comes to how their services are integrated and Apple's iCloud really is no match for Microsoft's services.

    The fact that it looks pretty and outperforms pretty much every other OS out there even on hardware from late 2009 is just icing.
    03-18-12 10:21 PM
  25. EveryApp Mobile's Avatar
    Windows phone is a serious contender. The performance of the operating system is quite amazing. Also, the tools for development are OUTSTANDING! I would like to call windows phone, iphones nemesis.... just like Windows OS to MacOS.
    Last edited by EveryApp Mobile; 03-18-12 at 11:35 PM.
    03-18-12 11:28 PM
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