[duckid]

Can understand. I'm a little leary of new users as I think there will be plenty disgruntled RIM employees who were laid off that would love to go wherever and bash them true or not.

BTW does out of the box include apps you must download and or buy to make it do what you want or is that also using a work around?

A classic example is BB Maps with the AT&T issue. This is just not acceptable. AT&T didn't even install their suite to make up for it... I know this isn't a BB issue, more an AT&T issue, but you'd think as a partner RIMM would ensure that any phone would have this up and running to make their user experience the best it can be. Services/apps that just aren't even supported for BB is just reaffirming that developers/carriers don't care about what RIMM is doing anymore.

The ecosystem to download apps is terrible compared to iTunes. Finding, reviewing, testing and installing apps is night and day. The selection is poor and even if it is supported it is a reduced version to handle the outdated BB platform.

I have a question for you (and really anyone). Have you ever used an iPhone or Droid? After using one of those phones did you go back to a BB? And why? What do you love about your BB that you can't get with another phone? How much do you pay a month? Do you do anything besides call/text/email with your phone?

[kbz1960]

Thanks. Yes I have used them but not owned one or used for any amount of time. I stick with my bb because it really does everything I need, the peace of mind about security, data compression and a portal for my pb, bridge and all that comes with it. Yes I could get all of that from another phone, maker beside the security.

I pay the same per month as I would pay for owning an android, my carrier does not have iPhone but if they did I think the charges would be the same.

I did more on my phone before I got a pb, I did not enjoy the other things on my phone due to screen size, and I still use reading glasses when using the pb so even a 5" phone screen still wouldn't make me enjoy doing other things with it.

[joeldf]

AT&T actually stopped blocking BB Maps earlier this year. Lots of AT&T users noticed that the app suddenly showed up on their phones around that time. I don't even need the "launcher" I had used anymore.

Although, I do think Google Maps is still better.

[duckid]

AT&T actually stopped blocking BB Maps earlier this year. Lots of AT&T users noticed that the app suddenly showed up on their phones around that time. I don't even need the "launcher" I had used anymore.

Although, I do think Google Maps is still better.

Well the BB Maps on my wife's phone says it is experiencing an internal error when trying to access the app. I just figured it was AT&T still blocking the app. I uninstalled BB Maps and reinstalled it. Still has the same issue.

[mphillips828]

Is RIMM going to completely revamp their design of their phone and OS? Even with a complete overhaul their ecosystem is nonexistent and developers think of them last. It is an uphill battle for them for years and years.

One more major advance by either Apple or Droid and the Blackberry won't be able to catch up.

Again... they will either get bought out for their patents or they will go bankrupt (yes I know that is an extreme) by the time BB10 comes around. They will be behind the curve for a long long time.

Hey Duckid,

You are asking if RIM will completely revamp their design of their phone and OS right? Well if you knew ANYTHING about BB10 and what RIM is working on, even from the VERY short demo shown off you would have known that the OS is COMPLETELY different from the current BBOS and their phones will be different from what they currently offer as they are streamlining their product line. So they do have a brand new OS that will be extremely powerful and simple to use and offer many great features that iOS and Android do not offer and will not offer once BB10 releases.

On the ecosystem front, BBOS is not the best thats forsure, but BB10 Jam has proven that developers have a major interest in BlackBerry and BB10 as major app developers are now moving to the new OS and developing for it. BB10 will have all major apps once release, so ecosystem will no longer be a major selling feature for ANY phone on the market as they will all be on par with each other (of course iOS will always have the best Fart apps around tho!)

And as I said before, the new BB10 will offer features the iOS and Android will not offer when BB10 is released, and you may doubt me on this but Apple has announced the next major update to iOS, so we all know what the next "greatest most revolutionary update ever" from Apple will include, and it includes the ability to open apps by voice, and check MLB player stats through Siri, and Facebook integration (which BB has had for years), and a new Map App...sooooo absolutely nothing breakthrough coming anytime soon from Apple...and same goes for Android as they have announced their next major upgrade Jelly Bean, and again no major blow towards RIM and BB10

So you say RIM will be behind the curve for a long long time is completely wrong and you should definitely check your facts before saying what you said because nothing you said makes any sense and you have nothing to back it up. iOS will offer nothing special as I have stated, just a few nice little features to the system and same for Android. BB10 will offer brand new features that iOS and Android do not offer, and if you do not believe me do some research and find the patented technologies that RIM owns and has had leaked slides showing off BB10 features...things such as the new lock screen, glance/peak features, flow, SCREEN SHARING! which is amazing!, and many more great features that iOS and Android do not offer

[kill_9]

Deja vu. This is a replay of the BlackBerry PlayBook fiasco.

[duckid]

So you say RIM will be behind the curve for a long long time is completely wrong and you should definitely check your facts before saying what you said because nothing you said makes any sense and you have nothing to back it up.

I'm just gonna touch on this one sentence... no.

What I said is my opinion and my user experience so far. I know of only one other person with a BB and he knows he is missing out and is bummed that his work is forcing him to use one. Again my limited time using this BB Torch 9810 has been horrible and that isn't what you want for a first time user experience. I tried to find workarounds and met with hours of searching (and I'm not talking about just the BB Maps). I'm not looking for my phone to just call/text/email... is that what you only need your phone to do?

What you've said is what RIM has said they will offer in their latest OS which is now delayed. Which will from the look of it bring them closer to what the current phones offer... in Q1 2013... you realize that is 6-7 months from now? What RIM says and what RIM does is going to be a whole different story and by the time they DO what they say they are going to do the phone market could be in a whole new shift putting RIM even farther behind. Everything I have read about regarding BB10 or seen pictures of show RIM offering nothing new and special. Definitely nothing that will yank iPhone or Droid users away after they have already switched. RIM is simply playing catchup.

The FACT OF THE MATTER is RIM is behind the curve and has been for quite some time. It is a major reason why people are leaving BB in droves and why RIMM stock price is in a tailspin down 75% in a year and 50% YTD. People aren't waiting around for RIM to get their act together and they sure as aren't going to wait another 6-7 months before the next OS upgrade which will "hopefully" bring them inline with phones of today.

And one thing... iOS and Droid OS do not need to offer anything special in their next update... because they are leaps and bounds ahead of anything RIM has to offer. iOS and Droid are waiting on technological advances to implement new changes... RIM is waiting on?? Those OS and user experience have already set the bar high. The design of their phones have set the bar high. The ecosystem/ app development/ app store have set the bar high. RIM is behind the curve in phone design, OS and app support / user experience. Done, done and done!

Oh... RIM could eventually pull off a miracle... look at Apple back in the 80's - early 90s to where they are now. But RIM is the reverse of Apple meaning they had their heyday back around 2007 when they made the ultimate phone and "Crackberry" actually made sense. What they have done since then is really pathetic.

Pick apart my post all you want but it isn't going to change my fundamental user experience of BB which has been terrible. I will continue to try to make my wife's phone something more than a call/text/email phone while pulling my hair out the entire time. I don't know how you all do it when you actually have a choice in the matter.

Good day.

[duckid]

BTW to get back on top... I could see RIM releasing this probably in Q2. The reason I think this is because they are missing a major holiday buying time... Christmas. If they are so close to Christmas but still will release a major upgrade to their OS in Q1, and quite possibly the only thing saving them, I don't know why they wouldn't double their efforts to make the new OS ready for the holiday season.

I think there are major issues ahead of them especially with the latest 5,000 employees that will be fired which could potentially delay the OS further than they expect.

[silversun10]

nobody cares what you think, how about you ask a question about your BB and solve your problem, to get the most of your BB, after all you have one, make something work, tearing down BB is too easy

[madman0141]

Just had this idea about the remarks made around the iPhone 5 releasing...if BB10 releases in say Jan, Feb then it will give the market a time to cool down from the iPhone 5 hype and give way for BB10 to release untouched by other phones...

The problem with this is that if we are thinking about this strategy, would Apple not be thinking of this as well?

We all know Apple released their last iPhone in October last year, and there are rumours surrounding an iPad Mini...what if Apple does not want BB10 to have the hype alone come the new year and release the iPad Mini come Sept/Oct and release the new iPhone 5 right before Christmas so that the hype will still be around when BB10 releases..

Apple fanboys will have their iPad Mini to tide them over until the iPhone 5 releases 2 months later...lets hope Apple isn't thinking about this, and if they are lets hope they just want to release iPhone 5 ASAP (although Apple fans will clearly wait the additional 2 months for a phone, so they may understand their current market will wait around for much longer)

Maybe but I don't think apple considers BlackBerry as much of a threat as it use too. I may be wrong but with a latter release RIM is missing holiday sales.

[addicted44]

That would be a lawsuit waiting to happen.

[calicocat2010]

Duckid, just search the Forums because us CrackBerry Abusers and Addicts can probably Answer your questions.

Oh and another thing....Look at the threads that provide "Going to another smartphone" or "Those coming back...welcome home" Those posts are Filled with people stating their Reasons WHY they felt the need to return to BB from an Iphone, Windows, or Android Phone. Remember BlackBerries are Tools Not Toys.

[omniusovermind]

This train of thought is ridiculous. Yes, Blackberry will get more hype come February; but, it'll miss out on the Christmas shopping season! Not only that, it might suffer from a period of post holiday spending retraction.

It depends on which matters more: less advertising when everyone is spending or more advertising when no one is spending.

That's a good point and I want to expand on it. On top of your scenario, what about people who always allow a brand new technology to work out the bugs before they buy? IPhone5, windows phone 8, and the upcoming google branded 5.0 phones will be ripe for those people by the time bb10 launches. Those people will have to then wait a further few months longer for the bb10 growing pain phase which has already passed for the competition. Not only is RIM missing peak season now, but by the time their growing pain phase arrives, the others will already be gearing up for MORE improvements. They've set themselves up to be perpetually behind everyone else. You know what this tells me? BlackBerry OS is continuing to be to the competition what OS7 currently is now. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. All of the above doesn't even mention another problem RIM has taken heat for, which is their habit of announcing delays for every new OS.

For the first time ever i was willing to give a bb phone a chance for my next upgrade, but because I'm one of those buyers who let's a new OS cook for a few months, I'm not going to sit and wait for this company to continue to play catch up, especially when they raise my suspicion radar by repeating habits they operated under with the old CEO's. When a major restructuring in a company happens, followed by a lot of hype, and then the actions belie their words, that tells me in no uncertain terms I'm being lied to. When you keep repeating the same behavior while still expecting a different result, there's a word for that.

[abwan11]

There is a point we're technology advancements peek and I believe we have reached that point in mobile for now. Any game changer will come as a surprise to the industry and progress into the next big thing.

[travaz]

There is a point we're technology advancements peek and I believe we have reached that point in mobile for now. Any game changer will come as a surprise to the industry and progress into the next big thing.

And that is exactly what RIM is talking about. If you listen to what they are saying its not about a new phone its about mobile computing. The phone is but 1 part of a mobile computing system. Apple and Android may be more interested than you think about what RIM is creating. The iphone lacks many of the features that we have now. no multi tasking. A 5 year old OS that has been incrementaly updated. Siri was a flash in the pan that most people tired of shortly after they used it . There is no 4G Iphone. The home screen hasnt been changed since lauunch of the original IPhone. Apple may suddenly be an old OS the is very one dementional. Android is so fragmented because of the different manufactures of phones. I believe that Google wants to take control of Android so they can bring it to the next level. Grab your seats get a beer and sit back and watch the battle. Its going to be very interesting.

[kbz1960]

And that is exactly what RIM is talking about. If you listen to what they are saying its not about a new phone its about mobile computing. The phone is but 1 part of a mobile computing system. Apple and Android may be more interested than you think about what RIM is creating. The iphone lacks many of the features that we have now. no multi tasking. A 5 year old OS that has been incrementaly updated. Siri was a flash in the pan that most people tired of shortly after they used it . There is no 4G Iphone. The home screen hasnt been changed since lauunch of the original IPhone. Apple may suddenly be an old OS the is very one dementional. Android is so fragmented because of the different manufactures of phones. I believe that Google wants to take control of Android so they can bring it to the next level. Grab your seats get a beer and sit back and watch the battle. Its going to be very interesting.

The nice thing for me is that when I'm ready to upgrade the battle lines should be thinned and lines drawn.