06-09-19 11:22 AM
29 12
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  1. inurear's Avatar
    If the U.S. trade ban holds up on Huawei then their access to U.S. tech will have huge ramifications moving forward.

    Everything from Filesystem to WiFi are American patents available cheaply, but not freely, to tech companies all over. Even if Huawei is able to make Chinese only versions of all the hardware American patent free (and if the Brits don't do a similar ban restricting Huawei from using ARM) - the hurdle of a non-microsoft, non-google, non-american operating system is near impossible to overcome.

    If this ban holds out: here are my reasons why perhaps resurrecting a dead operating system makes more sense than making their own bastardized version of AOSP.

    1. Microsoft (a US company) makes $5-$15 on every Android device and ios device in the market holding the keys to the most valuable compute technology needed for software to run and communicate. Unless you go full Linux ( original Motorola ROKR ) it would be a near impossible feat.
    2. BlackBerry had a (and still has) a fully encompassing compute patent agreement with Microsoft and others) which turns all those patents "Canadian" if licensed through BlackBerry. (BlackBerry would have to administer BB10 though)
    3. Rewriting all of Google's services is hard - and creating a developer platform is equally crazy. Would need at least a billion dollar investment... That investment is significantly cheaper if they can convince BlackBerry to reinstate BB10 specifically for Huawei
    4. The latest version of BB10 had great flexibility with Android apps, providing fill in services for most Google services. Considering that there are plenty of super competant Chinese alternatives for each of these services, it's not unrealistic to do a full scale rewrite of each service on boarding a whole bunch of Googley competition looking for a way out of the chinese market. (Baidu, Alibaba, Tencent (qq.com), Yandex, GlobalDatabase, BangGood, WeChat, MoMo, ect)
    5. Variable length of the BAN. The possibility of this ban extending beyond a year requires a full stack alternative to be drawn out if Huawei dreams of surviving, however, the moment the ban gets lifted it is probably in the best interest of Huawei to switch back to the former Google/Microsoft stack used in their devices. Therefore, It would be more beneficial for them to invest in android pluggable services rather than rewrite a full operating system - meanwhile maintaining a course of having a complete stack alternative if the ban holds up for more than a year.


    I know it sounds outlandish, but being in Huawei's shoes, they are practically forced to either write their own version of Android without ANY US tech or find an alternative operating system. The greatest alternatives are completely devoid of Android (LG's WebOS, Samsung Tizen)

    as well, Other American alternatives are off the table: Amazon Fire OS, KaiOS, Windows or Firefox OS resurrection.

    Lastly, I'm assuming that the BlackBerry patent agreement extends beyond their Delaware patent company, permitting them to resale them as part of QNX and BlackBerry 10... If, BlackBerry operates these agreements out of Delaware, that would eliminate any musings I suggested.
    05-24-19 09:29 AM
  2. johnny_bravo72's Avatar
    They don't need BB10. They're developing their own OS.
    cribble2k likes this.
    05-24-19 09:37 AM
  3. Bla1ze's Avatar
    Huawei has already dumped time and money into their own OS. Can't see them abandoning it and going to use yet again someone else's OS. A couple of billion at this point is nothing to Huawei to keep plugging away at it on their own.
    dendron01 likes this.
    05-24-19 09:39 AM
  4. stlabrat's Avatar
    Op, it is just bad idea. IMHO. Canadian linked with US physically. Chinese was not treat canadian that well last year, even though huawei cfo attending university course at million dollar home, there are 2 citizens in China prison camp charged with spying with little evidence. If bb went to dark side, I am sure many canadian fan will dump bb asap. Not mention qnx is flourish in Cars.

    Posted via CB10
    05-24-19 10:00 AM
  5. Invictus0's Avatar
    They have their own OS but even if they didn't, why would Huawei use BB10 over AOSP, Sailfish, or Tizen?
    05-24-19 10:19 AM
  6. igor10000's Avatar
    That is really a bad idea.
    05-25-19 03:45 PM
  7. parryberry's Avatar
    BlackBerry could also face US sanctions if it was to cooperate with Huawei.
    05-25-19 07:10 PM
  8. Bbnivende's Avatar
    BlackBerry could also face US sanctions if it was to cooperate with Huawei.
    Yes I think that is correct. BlackBerry needs the USA market . Regardless, BB10 is effectively a forked Android anyway. BB10 needs Google Play too.
    05-25-19 07:41 PM
  9. Invictus0's Avatar
    BlackBerry could also face US sanctions if it was to cooperate with Huawei.
    Under current conditions, only if the licensed technology is at least 25% US sourced. Hypothetically I assume BB10 and QNX would be ok given their Canadian origin but not BB Android. I think Huawei has worked with QNX before but there's no chance they'd want to license BB10 IMO.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKCN1SS1A9
    05-25-19 11:43 PM
  10. chain13's Avatar
    Huawei is big matured fully working company, making small smartphone OS is easy for them
    05-25-19 11:49 PM
  11. A Noise Annoys's Avatar
    As much as I think that BB10 matured into the best OS I've ever used I truly don't understand why we can't stop flogging this dead horse. It's done. Dead. Finished. Shuffled off this mortal coil. Stuffed it.

    Let it lie in peace.
    05-26-19 06:29 AM
  12. Emaderton3's Avatar
    Would you really use one of their phones even if it had BB10 given all the concerns out there?
    05-26-19 07:13 AM
  13. brookie229's Avatar
    Would you really use one of their phones even if it had BB10 given all the concerns out there?
    Yes. Would it ever happen? - No.
    05-26-19 07:33 AM
  14. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Would you really use one of their phones even if it had BB10 given all the concerns out there?
    There are moral or ethical concerns because Huawei has apparently stolen IP. The misuse of IP seems to rampant in tech period. Companies sue each other for patent infringement on a regular basis. Huawei is a bad actor no doubt.

    The list of countries who spy using computers and phones is lengthy. The USA is a major player as well .

    If the USA has evidence of Chinese spying using Huawei then the ban should be permanent and not part of a trade war. Secondly, why would we expect TCL to be different. A Chinese company hoping to sell phones to Enterprise users.

    As far as BB10, BlackBerry would be blackballed in the USA if they were to sell their OS to Huawei. Regardless, Huawei would be in no better position than in just using open source Android.

    To succeed all Chinese OEM’s would have to get on board with a new OS. What will China do ?
    05-26-19 07:48 AM
  15. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    This idea is a non-starter for many technical, economic, political and strategic reasons. Leaving aside the technical, political an economic ones, even if Huawei was willing to use BB10, there is no way BlackBerry would give them access to the QNX code, because one of the biggest issues with Huawei is their theft of intellectual property. QNX is at the core of BB's IOS strategy.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    05-26-19 09:52 AM
  16. littlebuff's Avatar
    Why would they want BB10 when having their own work on an OS already? If the US keeps playing hard, that would push the Chinese to develope their own OS, chips and hardwares. They have the money and the ability to. The Chinese government would stand behind and support this. And they have a 1.5 billion population as a own market. If they could figure out the app gap, they would be out on the way to take on the world again.
    05-26-19 10:22 AM
  17. stlabrat's Avatar
    Money is not the only thing. Chip plant needed equipment, almost all are made in USA. Unless Chinese unify Taiwan, there is hard for them to catch up.. besides, the new OS and sdk put more effort into hard coded on chip to speed up processes. Yes, they can make asic,but fpga mostly made by US as well. With Intel scoped altera,limited choice exist. IMHO. Sorry to pop your bubble.


    Posted via CB10
    05-26-19 10:51 AM
  18. Invictus0's Avatar
    there is no way BlackBerry would give them access to the QNX code
    One of their LTE modems for cars works with QNX so I assume they must already have a license for it,

    https://www.slashgear.com/huawei-me9...hina-05307685/
    05-26-19 11:46 AM
  19. app_Developer's Avatar
    One of their LTE modems for cars works with QNX so I assume they must already have a license for it,

    https://www.slashgear.com/huawei-me9...hina-05307685/
    Just because QNX works with some hardware doesn’t mean the hardware manufacturer has a license to QNX.

    As the situation stands today Huawei has huge problems. BB10 wouldn’t even begin to solve those problems.

    And as others have said, even if BB10 would help, such a deal couldn’t happen in this environment.

    After this experience it would be foolish for China not to invest in their own chip architecture, totally independent of ARM. And their own OS. Both would take quite some time to do. There hasn’t been a totally new, from scratch, CPU architecture and instruction set in like 50 years anywhere in the world , right? I can’t think of any.

    Most of the world wasn’t even alive last time that was done
    05-26-19 03:38 PM
  20. Invictus0's Avatar
    Just because QNX works with some hardware doesn’t mean the hardware manufacturer has a license to QNX.
    True.

    After this experience it would be foolish for China not to invest in their own chip architecture, totally independent of ARM. And their own OS. Both would take quite some time to do.
    I wouldn't be surprised if this conversation is being had all over the world, it happened with regards to data storage and privacy after the Snowden leaks. Huawei having such a big consumer presence drives home how impactful US sanctions can be for the average consumer and business.
    05-26-19 04:48 PM
  21. sorinv's Avatar
    Besides the software, Huawei has to replace a lot of hardware in GaAs, SOI and SAW technologies which they do not have access to.
    The critical chips are designed and manufactured in US in technologies that do not exist elsewhere or are poorly done elsewhere.

    Even if China occupies Taiwan, they still can't get those technologies from TSMC.

    Part of the ARM IP was originally licensed from US. It's not British.

    Hardware and semiconductor technologies take longer and are a lot "harder" to develop than software when you start from scratch.


    Posted via CB10
    stlabrat likes this.
    05-26-19 05:12 PM
  22. app_Developer's Avatar
    I think (hope?) the current crisis will abate. this is in nobody’s best interest IMO. If China is forced to recreate all of modern computing again, it just means the rest of us will be locked out of what will soon be the largest and most powerful economy in the world.

    I’m hearing recruiters are calling a lot of people with hardware, microcode, compiler, OS backgrounds. Some people will be getting some huge raises.
    Last edited by app_Developer; 05-26-19 at 08:49 PM.
    05-26-19 08:25 PM
  23. stlabrat's Avatar
    Shanghai smic delist from US. A major Chinese chipmaker is delisting from NYSE but says it has nothing to do with the trade war

    Posted via CB10
    05-28-19 06:06 AM
  24. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Shanghai smic delist from US. A major Chinese chipmaker is delisting from NYSE but says it has nothing to do with the trade war

    Posted via CB10
    Simply no longer meeting listing requirements?
    05-28-19 07:53 AM
  25. stlabrat's Avatar
    Lower volume trade and high cost to maintain.

    Posted via CB10
    05-28-19 09:15 AM
29 12

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