[GTiLeo]

I can't see it. It's another hugely competitive market and bb10 with it's userbase starting at 0 won't attract big time developers without huge monetary expenditures, which they cant afford right now. Nor does it fit in with the business angle they are trying to target- though there efforts seem so unfocused I don't think that excludes anything .

Actually the whole thing seems a bit odd to me... I agree physical controls are much preferable... Having said that, im not sure many people want to carry around gamepads just to play on their tiny phone! Even more... While phones certainly compete with and may have knocked out the portable consoles, it's hard to imagine them cutting into console sales. Pretty fanboyish fantasy speculation i think.

its not to carry around a game pad its to play while at home on their TVs, you can't see this happening but its totally in the cards, its one device that can be turned around and used as a phone and a portable gaming device not just and at home console .nintendo is trying to already do that with the tablet controller, you don't need a TV to play anymore but you do need the console

wil lit happen who knows but to say it can't happen and they can't do it is dumb, if BB wanted to do it and threw tons of money in R&D, hardware and marketing they could do it the same way sony did it to nintendo and the same way microsoft entered the game with the Xbox.

once a gain will it happen who knows but i wouldn't rule it out

[RubberChicken76]

I can't see it. It's another hugely competitive market and bb10 with it's userbase starting at 0 won't attract big time developers without huge monetary expenditures, which they cant afford right now.

Agree that it's silly to suggest it will take over. Not quite sure that 'big time developers' are all ignoring it though. For all its faults, PlayBook actually got a decent number of good games and those games seem to be coming to BlackBerry 10 quickly.

Just looking at my games folder on PlayBook, I have games from Electronic Arts, Popcap, Rovio, Sega, Gameloft, Union, ZeptoLab, Fishlabs, Square Enix, InXile and a bunch of others. Dozens of games that are pretty good actually.

For a 'business device' from a 'business company', BlackBerry took a big step forward in this department. Like, they leaped from one side of the football field to the other.

[RubberChicken76]

its not to carry around a game pad its to play while at home on their TVs

That's my use-case. Can't beat the price of mobile games. If the Z10 and PlayBook have that nice HDMI output, why can't I just plug them into a tv, sit on the couch and play a game with a wireless controller? Or at least have the option to?

nintendo is trying to already do that with the tablet controller, you don't need a TV to play anymore but you do need the console

I wonder if that's Nintendo's next move or partially their next move? When I saw the controller for the Wii U, my immediate reaction was that they were going to build a tablet that could play on its own or beam to the tv by DLNA or something. They have the shop, they have the IP, they are building the content store, they have the virtual console, they have the tablet controller and they have the retail presence.

if BB wanted to do it and threw tons of money in R&D, hardware and marketing they could do it the same way sony did it to nintendo and the same way microsoft entered the game with the Xbox.

That's a big price tag for BlackBerry right now. Microsoft spent something like $5 billion more than they ever earned in XBox revenue for the first several years on the market. Even now, the business isn't always "in the black". Microsoft Reports Record Revenue, but Xbox Unit Disappoints | News & Opinion | PCMag.com

But Microsoft can afford to float the business via Windows and Office. That is, unless tablets not running Windows really eat into laptop and Windows License sales. But that's another discussion ....

[richardat]

Agree that it's silly to suggest it will take over. Not quite sure that 'big time developers' are all ignoring it though. For all its faults, PlayBook actually got a decent number of good games and those games seem to be coming to BlackBerry 10 quickly.

Just looking at my games folder on PlayBook, I have games from Electronic Arts, Popcap, Rovio, Sega, Gameloft, Union, ZeptoLab, Fishlabs, Square Enix, InXile and a bunch of others. Dozens of games that are pretty good actually.
r.

Yes, of course....as I said my comment was addressing competing with Samsung, Apple, and for that matter, Nintendo....the PS4(!), and xbox 720?

In any case, serious gamers tend to be up on the latest and greatest games, and they want them, so I think it might be even more important in that market to have serious developer support...not just eventually coming, but coming at least as early as on the other systems. Of course, if BB10 developed a big enough base, this would happen....I don't think anybody imagines that happening in the current generation though. If you just want to say it's a big step forward, then I think it's a good sign....it's good they have included gamepad support, beyond that we'll see what can develop. LOL....but yes...that article was...out in the ozone you must admit!

[richardat]

wil lit happen who knows but to say it can't happen and they can't do it is dumb, t

First, I didn't say "it can't happen" or "they can't do it", I said I "can't see it", and I explained why.

if BB wanted to do it and threw tons of money in R&D, hardware and marketing they could do it the same way sony did it to nintendo and the same way microsoft entered the game with the Xbox.
t

You may not understand this, but RIM actually doesn't have that much money in relation to the amount that might need to be spent to enter that space with an impact of the magnitude that article is talking about. Buying their way into that space will.....cost big time. Ask MS (as rubberchicken points out). They really should not spend money this way, they need it to take a shot at bb10 - that's what all the terminations/cost cutting was about .

So I will say "they can't do it" - since that's apparently what you want to hear from me. In the sense that, they could also develop an X spacecraft and start sending people into orbit.....but they "can't" do that either.

They certainly should do their best, while keeping costs to themselves minimal, to offer as much gaming as possible - that's an important feature of smartphones of course. I think that's what they'll do.

[mikeo007]

Yes, of course....as I said my comment was addressing competing with Samsung, Apple, and for that matter, Nintendo....the PS4(!), and xbox 720?

In any case, serious gamers tend to be up on the latest and greatest games, and they want them, so I think it might be even more important in that market to have serious developer support...not just eventually coming, but coming at least as early as on the other systems. Of course, if BB10 developed a big enough base, this would happen....I don't think anybody imagines that happening in the current generation though. If you just want to say it's a big step forward, then I think it's a good sign....it's good they have included gamepad support, beyond that we'll see what can develop. LOL....but yes...that article was...out in the ozone you must admit!

Lol, well as for the article being out in the ozone, just look at the source. If there's one thing these guys have done, they've made a name for themselves as a gag tech site.

Console gaming and mobile gaming are, and for the foreseeable future will continue to be separate entities.
Apple's iPods, iPhones and iPads have undoubtedly taken a bite out of the marketshare of other portable gaming devices (PSP, DS, etc) but they are simply no substitute for a dedicated non-portable gaming console.

Just looking at graphics performance, you can see how far behind phones are compared to consoles (not even going to mention dedicated PCs).

The most powerful mobile GPU currently available is probably the SGX 554mp4 in the iPad 4 (at least it was ~ last month).
It's capable of up to 77 GFLOPS.

The Adreno 225 in the Z10 is capable of somewhere around 13 GFLOPS.

The PS3 is capable of 230 GFLOPS. That's almost 3x more than the iPad4, and over 17x more than the Z10.
And this is a 7 year old console.

As a comparison, the just announced PS4 is capable of 1840 GFLOPS.

Now of course it would be silly to expect phones to be as powerful as consoles, given they're much smaller size and available power. Given that, it would be equally silly to expect then to somehow replace these dedicated gaming consoles.

[RubberChicken76]

Now of course it would be silly to expect phones to be as powerful as consoles, given they're much smaller size and available power. Given that, it would be equally silly to expect then to somehow replace these dedicated gaming consoles.

To a point. Dedicated consoles are bought by a range of people who have varying interests in games. There's no way a tablet will replace a console for me (I have a lot of consoles) but I guarantee you my friend's wife will not replace her Wii and XBox with the newer consoles now that she has an iPad. The extent of which these devices impact console and handheld sales (or don't) remains to be seen. There's certainly an argument that Wii U is performing below expectations right now because of this. Though, I'd argue though that it's partly because its missing killer Nintendo titles at the moment.

[RubberChicken76]

As an aside, video gaming was one of those "uh oh" moments for me with the old BlackBerry OS. I tried out the original iPhone and the 3G back in the day. At the time, I wasn't real impressed with them. They looked snazzy, the OS was cool, the touch screen was a novelty. But then they didn't copy and paste (sucked if you got a URL), struggled to make it into the afternoon on a charge, (sucked when I was on a business trip), didn't have a battery to replace (ditto) and I couldn't type on it anywhere near as quick as the emails needed to be answered.

But then I saw Resident Evil 4 on the thing and went, "wow". It looked like what was on my GameCube generally. It was a gigantic download - bigger and far more sophisticated and uncompromised than any BlackBerry game I'd seen. I looked at what was on my Bold (Brickbreaker and some side scrolling batman game) and went, "uh oh". Plus, it didn't reboot when it was done installing and didn't slow my phone to a crawl.

The old BlackBerry OS just never caught up. Even when they jacked up the graphics hardware a lot for BlackBerry 7, the games generally didn't make use of it. OS issues got in the way and game developers often ignored the GPU on newer devices to make the game run on older devices. Lowest common denominator for the biggest development.

Nice to see BlackBerry getting back in the game here. Even if people on iPhone and Android don't see anything amazing on it as a game platform, existing BlackBerry users will be beside themselves at the leap forward.

[mikeo007]

To a point. Dedicated consoles are bought by a range of people who have varying interests in games. There's no way a tablet will replace a console for me (I have a lot of consoles) but I guarantee you my friend's wife will not replace her Wii and XBox with the newer consoles now that she has an iPad. The extent of which these devices impact console and handheld sales (or don't) remains to be seen. There's certainly an argument that Wii U is performing below expectations right now because of this. Though, I'd argue though that it's partly because its missing killer Nintendo titles at the moment.

There will always be exceptions, but I'm speaking about the more general population.

To use a reverse example, take the super popular angry birds.

It's had hundreds of millions of purchases on phones and tablets. Yet it has sold a meager (in comparison) 1 million units on consoles. It's now a bargain bin game on clearance racks.

Mobile gaming is just a different market than console gaming.

[hurds]

I said this over a year ago.

A lot of people here are missing the point completely as die-hard tech geeks usually do.

This isn't about niche gaming. This is about the billions of people in the world. Xbox and Playstations are great, but they are largely niche platforms and it will go further that way.

It amazes me the same tech geeks that love specs and see it continually advancing now believe phones won't become as powerful as gaming system they now use. I know in some cases its already happened. When I bought my first iphone it had better specs than my computer.

Our phones will largely replace console gaming (don't worry tech geeks, you can still buy your xbox).

It doesn't need to completely replace console gaming but for the average person it will. Why dust off your Wii when your phone is right there, is already hooked up wireless, has a built in app store and can be used portably or on your big screen.

Just think of MASSIVE consumer markets that never will even think about buying an xbox (one example, India. Theres loads more unless you think the US is surronding by only water and is the only landmass in the world). Why buy a gaming cole/computer when all your gaming needs are met with your personal device.

RIM geniously made acquistions such as QNX, scoreloop and have developed the open-platform Gameplay for cross-platform gaming. Doesn't matter whos done it first. A pat on the back android for doing it, whether it was first or not we know 'droid-lovers cling to this. It matters whos doing it when its popularized. Its inevitably that this type of use of our phones will become more common. Looks like BB is primed for when it does. Looks ridiculouslyl easy to set-up. And they've got great developer suppor with API. As for content and game developers, do you think they rather be on an xbox that some people have, or a phone which pretty much every has.

As for the person who talked about user base? Honestly this is stupid. BB10 just came out, and guess what, its only going to grow. BB has made it ridiculously easy for all platforms to port their games over to BB so they will support BB and again the userbase is only going grow.

I dont know why so many of you whinge, ***** and moan about anything positive about BB. Get over it! BB rocks! And they keep doing amazing stuff.

[irrebkcalB]

It comes as no surprise to PlayBook owners that QNX devices are very good gamers (he wrote as he patiently awaited US release of the Z10 and "PB10").

[DragonFlyer]

I think QNX has the best platform to develope games on. With that being said I don't know anything except what I think. If there is anyone with a bit of knowledge in this department your opinion would be appreciated.

[loc5]

Cool.....Remove the phone feature, just sell the z10 as multimedia device + gaming just like iPod Touch. Or release BB10 for PlayBook.

[Savior4Life]

I can't see it. It's another hugely competitive market and bb10 with it's userbase starting at 0 won't attract big time developers without huge monetary expenditures, which they cant afford right now. Nor does it fit in with the business angle they are trying to target- though there efforts seem so unfocused I don't think that excludes anything .

Actually the whole thing seems a bit odd to me... I agree physical controls are much preferable... Having said that, im not sure many people want to carry around gamepads just to play on their tiny phone! Even more... While phones certainly compete with and may have knocked out the portable consoles, it's hard to imagine them cutting into console sales. Pretty fanboyish fantasy speculation i think.

This isn't about carrying around a controller... Did you even read the link? With the docking station it will be possible to connect it to your HDTV and use a third party controller instead of your phone.

[Savior4Life]

While I don't believe it will have any impact directly to PC and console gaming as they even stated in the article; hardcore gamers are still going to be console biased, but it will certainly be cost effective, baring there are some decent titles released. It is definitely offering more in the way of gaming then iOS or Android. They just need more big name developers......

[mikeo007]

It is definitely offering more in the way of gaming then iOS or Android. They just need more big name developers......

Far from it. The most important part of gaming is the games, and Blackberry isn't anywhere near the amount or quality that ios and android are.

I'm not sure what you are classifying as "offering more" since it's behind on the most important thing...

[Pete The Penguin]

I smell the next generation PlayBook...

Posted via CB10

[CrackedBarry]

Cool.....Remove the phone feature, just sell the z10 as multimedia device + gaming just like iPod Touch. Or release BB10 for PlayBook.

Blackberry is barely hanging on in the mobile market, what makes you think that they can take on yet another market with deeply entrenched players?

[CrackedBarry]

I think QNX has the best platform to develope games on. With that being said I don't know anything except what I think. If there is anyone with a bit of knowledge in this department your opinion would be appreciated.

You think that, because you don't know anything about gaming or gaming hardware.

Consoles are dying, yes, and there's a huge casual/semi-casual market up for grabs, yes. Apple looks more likely to take that market though, with Android as a distant second because of their piracy and basic OS problems.

Hardware wise the iPhone and iPad are much stronger than the Z10. The iphone5 and especially the iPad wipes the floor with it in terms of CPU and particularily GPU performance, its not even close. That's a big problem. The Z10 just doesn't have the hardware for HDTV gaming.

Software wise all the big developers support Apple and have a long relationship with them. More importantly though, all the development tools are proven and mature on iOS. There are very few game engines or development tools that are available for QNX, and the few that are available are immature and not as good as their iOS equivalents.

Both problems add up to Blackberry having absolutely no chance of pulling off a success in gaming in the foreseeable future.

For Blackberry to be even a minor player in this space, would cost an investment of billions of dollars over several years. And time and money, especially the first, is a resource that Blackberry just doesn't have right now.

[DragonFlyer]

You think that, because you don't know anything about gaming or gaming hardware.

If there is one thing I know its gaming. I have spent a lot of time studying the art of playing games. Gaming harware is a different story. In this area I could use an education.

Consoles are dying, yes, and there's a huge casual/semi-casual market up for grabs, yes. Apple looks more likely to take that market though, with Android as a distant second because of their piracy and basic OS problems.

I don't think I would consider piracy as a negative. People are attracted to things they can get for free and then if they like it they support it. Look at the music industry. Nobody has to pay for music but if they like it then they support it. For example lets take a game and put a price of $10.00 on it. I look at the game discription, sounds okay. I read a couple of reviews doesn't sound that good. I don't want to waste my money on it so I move on. Now if I know there is a way to get the game for free. I don't move on. I get the game and start playing with. I find myself liking the game a lot so I feel the need to support it so that I cotinue getting things that I really like. Now they just got a new customer that will keep coming back for more. This is not what I know, just what I think.

Hardware wise the iPhone and iPad are much stronger than the Z10. The iphone5 and especially the iPad wipes the floor with it in terms of CPU and particularily GPU performance, its not even close. That's a big problem. The Z10 just doesn't have the hardware for HDTV gaming.

I can't comment on CPU and GPU except that I think that CPU stands for computer proccessing unit. This HDTV thing though I know a little about. I have some HDTVs scattered throughout my house that I can connect my Blackberry to via HDMI cable and watch a video that I took with my BlackBerry 1080p HD video camera. This makes me think (but don't know for sure)that it does have the hardware for HDTV.

Software wise all the big developers support Apple and have a long relationship with them. More importantly though, all the development tools are proven and mature on iOS.

This is exactly what I used to think about my Atari. Boy was I wrong.

There are very few game engines or development tools that are available for QNX, and the few that are available are immature and not as good as their iOS equivalents.

You use the word immature. Do these QNX development tools have the ability to become as good as iOS?

Both problems add up to Blackberry having absolutely no chance of pulling off a success in gaming in the foreseeable future.

For Blackberry to be even a minor player in this space, would cost an investment of billions of dollars over several years. And time and money, especially the first, is a resource that Blackberry just doesn't have right now.

I really enjoyed reading your comments. They gave me a lot to think about. Looking forward to hearing back.

[loc5]

Blackberry is barely hanging on in the mobile market, what makes you think that they can take on yet another market with deeply entrenched players?

They're barely hanging on to mobile market that doesn't mean they don't think of other market. What did Thor say about mobile computing?
If they make playbook with wifi only, why not z10 but wifi only?
All I can say is I don't think that I'm going to buy a z10 phone as I already have a cell phone. I am willing to buy something from them to replace my mp3 player, my psp. I can also use this bb10 device as thin client, or install comwave ePhone and use it as voip phone.

[mikeo007]

If there is one thing I know its gaming. I have spent a lot of time studying the art of playing games. Gaming harware is a different story. In this area I could use an education.

Appreciate someone being honest when they're not that knowledgable on a subject they're discussing; just wanted to acknowledge that.

I don't think I would consider piracy as a negative. People are attracted to things they can get for free and then if they like it they support it. Look at the music industry. Nobody has to pay for music but if they like it then they support it. For example lets take a game and put a price of $10.00 on it. I look at the game discription, sounds okay. I read a couple of reviews doesn't sound that good. I don't want to waste my money on it so I move on. Now if I know there is a way to get the game for free. I don't move on. I get the game and start playing with. I find myself liking the game a lot so I feel the need to support it so that I cotinue getting things that I really like. Now they just got a new customer that will keep coming back for more. This is not what I know, just what I think.

Piracy is never a positive for a platform.

I can't comment on CPU and GPU except that I think that CPU stands for computer proccessing unit. This HDTV thing though I know a little about. I have some HDTVs scattered throughout my house that I can connect my Blackberry to via HDMI cable and watch a video that I took with my BlackBerry 1080p HD video camera. This makes me think (but don't know for sure)that it does have the hardware for HDTV.

The phone has the ability to output to an HDTV but it does not have the power to render high quality graphics on an HD screen.

You say you know games, so you'll understand this. Take the Xbox 360 for example. It can output full 1080p video, but the majority of games are only rendered in 720p. This is because even the Xbox doesn't have the power necessary to render high quality graphics at full HD resolution.

The z10 has less graphics "horsepower" than the top mobiles on the market, making it less than ideal for high quality gaming.

You use the word immature. Do these QNX development tools have the ability to become as good as iOS?

IMO they have the potential, but need to garner a lot more support first. The other big players have a big head start, but seeing SDks like unity promising eventual BB10 support is encouraging.

[RubberChicken76]

I don't think I would consider piracy as a negative. People are attracted to things they can get for free and then if they like it they support it. Look at the music industry.

You lost me a this. It's a huge negative in both cases if the game studios and the artists can't make money doing what they do. I used to work for a retail software company and every quarter, someone I knew was getting laid off because our software wasn't selling quite as well as forecasted. Meanwhile, you'd see it all over the pirate sites the day it launched, pirated versions sold on the streets for a couple of bucks and with tons of users in countries that didn't pay a dime for it.

Sucked for the developer that worked hard on it (often late into the night) and is now wondering where the mortgage payment is going to come from ...

You mentioned Atari's. Did you know that their two computer lines (Atari 8BIT and Atari ST) were partly killed because of rampant piracy on a user-base that was struggling to grow? Software houses started dropping support left right and center when the piracy problem became apparent.

It's never a good thing

[BoldtotheMax]

I don't ever see this taking off like a lot of you hope, which is funny in itself how a lot of you are pumped up about games now.

I remember when the general conces was you guys wanted a 'tool', not a 'toy.'

I personally think they should focus more on better/bigger name apps than games.

Then again it's all about being competitive in today's world and doing what you have to do to stay that way. So really not surprising, but I am surprised how faithful the BB fanatics are being they didn't care about 'gaming' at all.

Whatever keeps them in the game, but sorry won't take over consoles anytime soon... If at ever.

Sent from a galaxy far away!

[RubberChicken76]

I remember when the general conces was you guys wanted a 'tool', not a 'toy.'

"Us guys". We're all the same are we? I challenge you to find a reference on crackberry.com where the people that posted in this thread were dismissive of games?