12-14-11 09:45 PM
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  1. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    The real point is that almost no one cares about the background technical differences, period. That 2% extra battery life due to this technology difference is not selling phones. My phone and most others seem to work just like your BB in terms of push. People getting stuff instantly = happy people, despite the back end technology. Argue all you want about the technical details (assuming you are 100% correct), but it does not compel the choice for most people. The point is that you and others are trying to insinuate some better feature or better experience, but that is not what people see. I am productive on a Droid or iPhone because things get here immediately, just like on my BB.
    I care, anybody that travels abroad cares, and that "push" email you get on android or iphone only applies to gmail or exchange email accounts, if you have a hosted email like I do without paying extra for exchange you get no push, at all.

    Gmail on Android is fast and it should be but that's about it.

    BB on the other hand has push for ANY email account, so you see, when you say Android has "push" just like BB it's a bit misleading.
    12-09-11 09:00 AM
  2. phonejunky's Avatar
    It seems like you didn't bother to read what dbw1000 said Belfast. The point he was making is that most people don't care about push because the email comes just as fast. Most people don't care about the back end, because the email gets there. Point blank that's his point. Your saying they should but it doesn't seem to matter to the average consumer what you think (and I'm not being disrespectful when saying this or trying to be).
    12-09-11 09:48 AM
  3. gregorylkelly's Avatar
    So, what emails do have push (or something similar) on Android? Does Yahoo have push? I don't use gmail, so I personally don't care whether gmail is push or not.
    12-09-11 10:26 AM
  4. howarmat's Avatar
    yahoo does with their app, hotmail setup via activesync and any exchange (work) or activesync capable mail.
    phonejunky likes this.
    12-09-11 10:31 AM
  5. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    It seems like you didn't bother to read what dbw1000 said Belfast. The point he was making is that most people don't care about push because the email comes just as fast. Most people don't care about the back end, because the email gets there. Point blank that's his point. Your saying they should but it doesn't seem to matter to the average consumer what you think (and I'm not being disrespectful when saying this or trying to be).
    So if people are ignorant and they don't care it makes it ok? Sure gmail is fast but what about the rest?
    12-09-11 10:37 AM
  6. phonejunky's Avatar
    So if people are ignorant and they don't care it makes it ok? Sure gmail is fast but what about the rest?
    Yea that's exactly what it means, it's ok because they don't care. When they start caring I'm sure the phone makers will find a way to please them as they have been doing, with the exception of some who can't keep up. Also some companies like Yahoo have found ways to help customers around this with their own applications.
    Last edited by CrackberryBrandon; 12-09-11 at 11:00 AM.
    12-09-11 10:55 AM
  7. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Yea that's exactly what it means, it's ok because they don't care. When they start caring I'm sure the phone makers will find a way to please them as they have been doing, with the exception of some who can't keep up. Also some companies like Yahoo have found ways to help customers around this with their own applications.
    Good for you, I'm glad you don't care but me and many others do care and we understand the advantage of true push.

    Just because you don't care it doesn't mean it's not relevant for millions of people around the world and you can't come here and tell me it's the same.
    12-09-11 11:08 AM
  8. Rickroller's Avatar
    Just because you don't care it doesn't mean it's not relevant for millions of people around the world.
    Just because YOU care it doesn't mean it's relevant for millions of people around the world.

    cwutididther
    jebulls likes this.
    12-09-11 11:22 AM
  9. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Just because YOU care it doesn't mean it's relevant for millions of people around the world.

    cwutididther
    100% true except I'm not the one claiming that my email service is something it's not.
    12-09-11 11:29 AM
  10. phonejunky's Avatar
    Good for you, I'm glad you don't care but me and many others do care and we understand the advantage of true push.

    Just because you don't care it doesn't mean it's not relevant for millions of people around the world and you can't come here and tell me it's the same.
    I honestly don't know if you have a problem reading or comprehending Belfast. But I never stated anything about me not having push email. Seems like you like putting your own words into members post. You can go back over my post and correct me if I'm wrong. I have push email I use exchange on my iPhone just FYI. I also own a blackberry that I have push on. Both phones I use have push email. So next time you don't have to assume I don't.
    Last edited by CrackberryBrandon; 12-09-11 at 11:41 AM.
    12-09-11 11:38 AM
  11. avt123's Avatar
    The never ending argument on push continues...
    12-09-11 11:42 AM
  12. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    I honestly don't know if you have a problem reading or comprehending Belfast. But I never stated anything about me not having push email. Seems like you like putting your own words into members post. You can go back over my post and correct me if I'm wrong. I have push email I use exchange on my iPhone just FYI. I also own a blackberry that I have push on. Both phones I use have push email. So next time you don't have to assume I don't.
    This is how exchange activesync works from microsoft themselves. Does it sound like true push to you? The same as BB push?


    "A mobile phone that's configured to synchronize with an Exchange 2010 server issues an HTTPS request to the server. This request is known as a PING. The request tells the server to notify the device if any items change in any folder that's configured to synchronize in the next 15*minutes. Otherwise, the server should return an HTTP 200 OK message. The mobile phone then stands by. The 15-minute time span is known as a heartbeat interval.
    If no items change in 15*minutes, the server returns a response of HTTP 200 OK. The mobile phone receives this response, resumes activity (known as waking up), and issues its request again. This restarts the process.
    If any items change or new items are received within the 15-minute heartbeat interval, the server sends a response that informs the mobile phone that there's a new or changed item and provides the name of the folder in which the new or changed item resides. After the mobile phone receives this response, it issues a synchronization request for the folder that has the new or changed items. When synchronization is complete, the mobile phone issues a new PING request and the whole process starts over.
    Direct Push depends on network conditions that support a long-standing HTTPS request. If the carrier network for the mobile phone or the firewall doesn't support long-standing HTTPS requests, the HTTPS request is stopped. The following steps describe how Direct Push operates when a mobile phone's carrier network has a time-out value of 13*minutes:

    A mobile phone issues an HTTPS request to the server. The request tells the server to notify the device if any items change in any folder that is configured to synchronize in the next 15*minutes. Otherwise, the server should return an HTTP 200 OK message. The mobile phone then stands by.
    If the server does not respond after 15*minutes, the mobile phone wakes up and concludes that the connection to the server was timed out by the network. The device reissues the HTTPS request, but this time it uses a heartbeat interval of 8*minutes.
    After 8*minutes, the server sends an HTTP 200 OK message. The device then tries to gain a longer connection by issuing a new HTTPS request to the server that has a heartbeat interval of 12*minutes.
    After 4*minutes, a new e-mail message is received and the server responds by sending an HTTPS request that tells the device to synchronize. The device synchronizes and reissues the HTTPS request that has a heartbeat of 12*minutes.
    After 12*minutes, if there are no new or changed items, the server responds by sending an HTTP 200 OK message. The device wakes up and concludes that network conditions support a heartbeat interval of 12*minutes. The device then tries to gain a longer connection by reissuing an HTTPS request that has a heartbeat interval of 16*minutes.
    After 16*minutes, no response is received from the server. The device wakes up and concludes that network conditions cannot support a heartbeat interval of 16*minutes. Because this failure occurred directly after the device tried to increase the heartbeat interval, it concludes that the heartbeat interval has reached its maximum limit. The device then issues an HTTPS request that has a heartbeat interval of 12*minutes because this was the last successful heartbeat interval.
    The mobile phone tries to use the longest heartbeat interval the network supports. This extends battery life on the device and reduces how much data is transferred over the network. Mobile carriers can specify a maximum, minimum, and initial heartbeat value in the registry settings for the mobile phone."
    12-09-11 11:46 AM
  13. phonejunky's Avatar
    What in the world Belfast. You need help Man. I have no idea why you're explaining something to me I already know. I never made an argument of what true push was. Are you ok man? And why did you quote me when my post had nothing to do with what true push was lol.
    12-09-11 11:52 AM
  14. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    What in the world Belfast. You need help Man. I have no idea why you're explaining something to me I already know. I never made an argument of what true push was. Are you ok man? And why did you quote me when my post had nothing to do with what true push was lol.
    Then why say this? You make it sound like they're both the same:

    "I have push email I use exchange on my iPhone just FYI. I also own a blackberry that I have push on. Both phones I use have push email. So next time you don't have to assume I don't."
    12-09-11 11:55 AM
  15. avt123's Avatar
    Hey Bel, since it isn't true push then, maybe you should sue Apple, Google and everyone else who has a "Push" option listed in their OS. Since it isn't "true push", the lawsuit should be pretty easy to win.
    howarmat and jebulls like this.
    12-09-11 12:00 PM
  16. phonejunky's Avatar
    They are the same to the average both phones get their email quick and instant. Once again bringing up the point the average person doesn't care about the back end. Why would they when they are getting their email just as fast? An hey like AVT Said if it isn't push sounds like you have a good lawsuit on your hands.
    12-09-11 12:01 PM
  17. Accidental Post's Avatar
    Ultimately if your life depends on push, fetch, active-sync, or cloud stuff. You really need to pick up phone and dial.
    Last edited by Accidental Post; 12-09-11 at 12:05 PM.
    john_v likes this.
    12-09-11 12:03 PM
  18. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Hey Bel, since it isn't true push then, maybe you should sue Apple, Google and everyone else who has a "Push" option listed in their OS. Since it isn't "true push", the lawsuit should be pretty easy to win.
    Apple? Google? Surely you mean Microsoft

    Exchange is push the same way hspa+ os 4G.
    12-09-11 12:06 PM
  19. avt123's Avatar
    Apple? Google? Surely you mean Microsoft

    Exchange is push the same way hspa+ os 4G.
    Add MS to the list as well then. I'm saying anyone who has their email labeled "Push" when it's "not".

    We can't do anything about faux 4G, they are in the clear.
    12-09-11 12:11 PM
  20. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    They are the same to the average both phones get their email quick and instant. Once again bringing up the point the average person doesn't care about the back end. Why would they when they are getting their email just as fast? An hey like AVT Said if it isn't push sounds like you have a good lawsuit on your hands.
    Why do you feel the need to stick up for the average ignorant user that doesn't care?

    Are you gonna stick up for them when they come back from a trip abroad to a huge roaming bill?

    I never argued the speed of the email, just the "push" part.
    12-09-11 12:12 PM
  21. Rickroller's Avatar
    Why do you feel the need to stick up for the average ignorant user that doesn't care?

    Are you gonna stick up for them when they come back from a trip abroad to a huge roaming bill?

    I never argued the speed of the email, just the "push" part.
    Why do you feel the need to argue about what the "average ignorant user" worries about anyways? If they get their emails in a timely fashion, who really gives a ****e (besides you).

    And even the most "average ignorant users" I know look into data plans before travelling abroad, so they don't have "huge roaming bills" when they get back.
    Accidental Post likes this.
    12-09-11 03:10 PM
  22. phonejunky's Avatar
    Why do you feel the need to stick up for the average ignorant user that doesn't care?

    Are you gonna stick up for them when they come back from a trip abroad to a huge roaming bill?

    I never argued the speed of the email, just the "push" part.
    Well no one cares if it's push or not that was the point we were making from the very beginning. I even asked you why in the world did you lay out a long post that you clearly googled about the difference between push and exchange because no one cared about. The point we were making was most smartphone owners don't caree about the back end but more about the front end and if plain and simple their email was on their device in a timely fashion. You alone brought this whole push thing up on your own which I still have no idea why.
    12-09-11 03:18 PM
  23. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Well no one cares if it's push or not that was the point we were making from the very beginning. I even asked you why in the world did you lay out a long post that you clearly googled about the difference between push and exchange because no one cared about. The point we were making was most smartphone owners don't caree about the back end but more about the front end and if plain and simple their email was on their device in a timely fashion. You alone brought this whole push thing up on your own which I still have no idea why.
    Huh? I didn't bring it up, it was being discussed before I posted the extract from microsoft explanation of activesync email.

    Problem with the activesync is it's only supported for a few email accounts, gmail, hotmail and exchange hosted accounts. Everything else doesn't get push.

    I have a hosted account, no exchange, make it push on android or iphone. And no, I don't want to route it trough google apps.

    You set 10 email accounts as push on your iphone and watch the battery drop. Even the average ignorant user will notice that and plenty do and complain and end up setting to fetch.

    Funny how one "push" kills the battery and the other saves it, isn't it?

    Anyway, I'm done with this thread, I have no interest in the average user, very few "average" users on this site anyway.
    12-09-11 03:38 PM
  24. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Why do you feel the need to argue about what the "average ignorant user" worries about anyways? If they get their emails in a timely fashion, who really gives a ****e (besides you).

    And even the most "average ignorant users" I know look into data plans before travelling abroad, so they don't have "huge roaming bills" when they get back.
    International roaming plans are not free neither unlimited. With a blackberry you don't have to worry about it, you just get on the plane/car and go, no turning data off, no hunting for wifi.
    12-09-11 03:41 PM
  25. soccernamlak's Avatar
    International roaming plans are not free neither unlimited. With a blackberry you don't have to worry about it, you just get on the plane/car and go, no turning data off, no hunting for wifi.
    Having a BlackBerry doesn't suddenly make you immune to charges for voice or data used while abroad
    12-09-11 04:30 PM
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