02-09-11 08:43 PM
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  1. mb55's Avatar
    The GPS apps I have installed are Waze, Trapster, Blackberry Maps (came with the BB), and Google Maps. But I was under the impression that these don't use the GPS chip unless the app is actually turned on, was I wrong? If they do, should I simply disable the GPS in my options before I sleep? Or do a "battery pull" through the Quick Pull app every night?
    May I ask how do you close an app? Example for your Google Maps.
    Do you just press the back button to exit the app? Or do you press the BB Button and the menu pops up and you select Exit?

    If it is the former, your app is still running in the background. If it is the latter, you have closed your app.
    12-21-10 02:18 AM
  2. cre8tor's Avatar
    May I ask how do you close an app? Example for your Google Maps. Do you just press the back button to exit the app? Or do you press the BB Button and the menu pops up and you select Exit?
    I use the BB button to access the menu, then select Exit. I frequently hold the BB button down until all tasks appear to see if any unnecessary tasks are running, I'm very good about that.

    I'm using OS5 and in the Applications, it just shows all apps - it doesn't display how much CPU usage each app is utilizing. Is there a way to show background tasks for OS5?

    Anyway, there doesn't seem to have been an issue while using the BB throughout the day. The issue has been at night time when I sleep, when I do not use the BB at all. The battery should not be going from 100% to 50% during this time when just in standby mode.

    So the two major things I did today was disable GPS and change network setting from Global to 1XEV. The battery is now at 100% and I've just done a battery pull. I will check back tomorrow to see if doing any of the above helped.

    By the way, I'm still curious to know how other people's battery % drops overnight. I expect a little but not 50%. Anyone else, try charging your battery to 100%, then unplug it overnight and see what the % is the next day. It'd be interesting to see how other people's BBs do...
    12-21-10 02:41 AM
  3. mb55's Avatar
    I use the BB button to access the menu, then select Exit. I frequently hold the BB button down until all tasks appear to see if any unnecessary tasks are running, I'm very good about that.

    I'm using OS5 and in the Applications, it just shows all apps - it doesn't display how much CPU usage each app is utilizing. Is there a way to show background tasks for OS5?

    Anyway, there doesn't seem to have been an issue while using the BB throughout the day. The issue has been at night time when I sleep, when I do not use the BB at all. The battery should not be going from 100% to 50% during this time when just in standby mode.

    So the two major things I did today was disable GPS and change network setting from Global to 1XEV. The battery is now at 100% and I've just done a battery pull. I will check back tomorrow to see if doing any of the above helped.

    By the way, I'm still curious to know how other people's battery % drops overnight. I expect a little but not 50%. Anyone else, try charging your battery to 100%, then unplug it overnight and see what the % is the next day. It'd be interesting to see how other people's BBs do...
    Holding the BB button down will not show the background task running. It only shows apps running.

    Both OS 5 and 6 does not show background task.
    OS 6 shows the cpu utilization which can gives you a hint which app is using how much resources.

    You can do a test to turn off radio(cdma or gsm) for the night and see how how your battery fare.
    12-21-10 03:37 AM
  4. breakmedown's Avatar
    You can do a test to turn off radio(cdma or gsm) for the night and see how how your battery fare.
    That's what I would try. I would disable all the radios (including your network radio) and make sure the GPS is totally disabled. If the problem is duplicated, you know it's an application. If it's not, then you know it's a reception/GPS issue.
    12-21-10 05:22 AM
  5. cre8tor's Avatar
    I have a big sigh of relief today. My BB battery power is at 95%, so it only lost 5% overnight. That is more like it and that is what I expected for a new phone.

    So one of the two things I did yesterday influenced the cause of the battery drain (or perhaps both): 1) Turning the phone setting from Global to 1XEV or 2) disabling the GPS (to E911 only). It'd be interesting to pin-point which is significantly more responsible.

    What leads me to believe that GPS is involved is after mb55 mentioned that he thought some of my apps run background tasks. A possibility is that one of my GPS apps access my GPS chip at all times, even when the app is not turned on to see my location at all times. I don't think it could have been a news app, because those still had access to the internet all night long. Mb55, which apps were you referring to which you thought were not developed properly? By the way, I did uninstall Google Maps yesterday so that itself could be a possible third cause. I did this because I thought their Google accounts on the web is intrusive itself (if you don't log out of a Google account while you're browsing the net, they will be seeing every webpage you visit).

    What leads me to believe that the Global vs 1XEV setting is involved, is because the previous BB I had was a Curve 9330 and if I could remember correctly the sales rep said it could not be used globally so it most likely did not have the Global setting. There was no problem with battery life with this phone and I left the GPS setting enabled with the same GPS apps I have on my current phone. So that's strong evidence that the Global setting was the culprit.

    If I have time, I'll test it out and enable the GPS setting overnight tonight but leave the network setting at 1XEV to see how much influence the GPS has over the battery life. A possible future test would be to enable the GPS, but remove the suspected GPS apps.

    I hope someone else learns from this if they are having the same problem. You'll now know what to do...
    12-21-10 04:34 PM
  6. mb55's Avatar
    Mb55, which apps were you referring to which you thought were not developed properly?
    It was a general statement. Our company develops apps, and during testings, if such symptoms appears, it usually points to the apps calling the APIs in an inefficient manner and not optimized. A possibility is your GPS app is calling the GPS API, and not getting a response and keeps looping the process, or the checking intervals are too short apart, or they did not include any time-out intervals etc. There can be 1001 scenarios.

    I have no experience on your Global/1XEV settings. I do not use a CDMA phone.
    12-21-10 06:36 PM
  7. BoldtotheMax's Avatar
    Probably the GPS app, especially if it was doing what MB just mentioned...

    Me, I have wifi enabled, never messed with the back lighting and have GPS on, but only have Poynt and BB maps...

    I lose maybe 5-10% battery life over night if I don't charge.

    I generally charge every night though.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-21-10 07:34 PM
  8. cre8tor's Avatar
    A possibility is your GPS app is calling the GPS API, and not getting a response and keeps looping the process, or the checking intervals are too short apart, or they did not include any time-out intervals etc. There can be 1001 scenarios.
    That's definitely a possibility. In my case though, the problem seemed to get resolved after I disabled the GPS. If the GPS app kept calling and not getting a response, I probably would have gotten the same battery drain problem. So if the app did try to call and get a response, it most likely stopped after realizing that GPS was disabled.

    I was thinking more on the lines that the GPS app would be calling for the GPS chip constantly even when the app was not turned on, to get my location information but only if the GPS is enabled. If after realizing the GPS is disabled, then it would stop. But even that is speculation. I guess the safest policy is to disable GPS whenever you're not using it.
    12-21-10 09:11 PM
  9. cre8tor's Avatar
    I just wanted to update the thread. Last night I charged the battery to 100%, left the Mobile Network setting to 1XEV, but this time ENABLED GPS (Options -> Advanced Options -> GPS -> Changed GPS services to "Location On"). The next day, the battery was at 70%, so leaving the GPS enabled ate up 30% of the battery power without even using it.

    Alluding to what mb55 wrote early, does the battery get used because my GPS apps keep accessing the GPS chip all night long or does it get used just by the fact alone that the GPS chip is enabled (without apps trying to access it)? A possible future test would be to enable GPS but remove my GPS apps and see how the battery fares...
    12-22-10 04:43 PM
  10. mb55's Avatar
    I just wanted to update the thread. Last night I charged the battery to 100%, left the Mobile Network setting to 1XEV, but this time ENABLED GPS (Options -> Advanced Options -> GPS -> Changed GPS services to "Location On"). The next day, the battery was at 70%, so leaving the GPS enabled ate up 30% of the battery power without even using it.

    Alluding to what mb55 wrote early, does the battery get used because my GPS apps keep accessing the GPS chip all night long or does it get used just by the fact alone that the GPS chip is enabled (without apps trying to access it)? A possible future test would be to enable GPS but remove my GPS apps and see how the battery fares...
    Leaving the GPS on should not significantly drain your battery. I leave my GPS, WIFI and Bluetooth on 100% of the time and I do not have significant battery drain problems.
    12-22-10 08:39 PM
  11. cre8tor's Avatar
    Could you actually try to test it, leave your GPS, WiFi, and Bluetooth on, charge your battery to 100%, do a battery pull, then leave it on overnight and see what the battery power is the next day? The test should be during the night when you're sleeping, not during the day when you're using it because regular use will of course use the battery and this could mask any unusual battery drain if it exists.

    I experimented again and duplicated last night's test but this time I removed all apps which utilize GPS. So I had the Mobile Network setting at 1XEV and GPS enabled (Location On) but this time there were no apps to actually use the GPS. The battery power was at 100% before sleeping but today it's at 65% (similar to yesterday's result that had all GPS apps installed). So the battery was STILL drained about 35% overnight, even without the GPS apps. This would suggest that simply leaving the GPS enabled drains significant battery power, whether you do or don't have GPS apps installed. Note, this is also what the Verizon rep told me a few days ago (but I had to see for myself).

    Also note, if you charge your BB every night, then this is something you probably won't even notice & don't have to worry about. During the day if you use GPS, you probably still wouldn't notice a battery drain that's out of the ordinary - I don't. Since I use the GPS app during the day and I know that it uses more than average battery power, a drop in battery life does not raise an eyebrow for me during the daytime - and it still does last for a relatively long time during the day considering my use. For me, it was just surprising to see the battery get used significantly during the night when not in use.

    So at this point, I'm not complaining about the BB battery life. It lasts relatively long considering my usage during the day. I would just re-iterate the take-home message for those who may be OCD and who would want to know where and when all the battery power is going, for those who don't want to waste an ounce of battery life, or for those who don't charge every night. That message again is to disable GPS in your options when you're not using it, at least that's what I found.
    Last edited by cre8tor; 12-23-10 at 04:17 PM.
    12-23-10 04:11 PM
  12. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    You guys need to turn off the cellular radio on the device overnight and see what happens. I'll bet you the battery remains at 100-95% or so. If that's the case, then the issue is with the fact that the BB is boosting db level (radio power) to maintain a good network connection.
    12-23-10 04:33 PM
  13. JRSCCivic98's Avatar
    I just wanted to update the thread. Last night I charged the battery to 100%, left the Mobile Network setting to 1XEV, but this time ENABLED GPS (Options -> Advanced Options -> GPS -> Changed GPS services to "Location On"). The next day, the battery was at 70%, so leaving the GPS enabled ate up 30% of the battery power without even using it.

    Alluding to what mb55 wrote early, does the battery get used because my GPS apps keep accessing the GPS chip all night long or does it get used just by the fact alone that the GPS chip is enabled (without apps trying to access it)? A possible future test would be to enable GPS but remove my GPS apps and see how the battery fares...
    That part is incorrect. You can leave your GPS on and as long as no app polls the GPS chipset, it won't use any battery power. The setting for GPS in the Options menu simply tells the phone how it should behave when a certain app calls for GPS location. If an app never calls for a GPS prime, it won't do anything when Location On is set. Chances are good one of your GPS enabled apps has some bad code on it that's causing the GPS to constantly prime even though you don't think the app is running. Google Maps won't do this if it's not listed when you bring up the app switcher ribbon. I would uninstall Waze and Trapster or any other GPS aware app that you have and also make sure your Camera options are not set to GeoTag photos (regardless of if the camera app is running or not).
    12-23-10 04:40 PM
  14. cre8tor's Avatar
    I would uninstall Waze and Trapster or any other GPS aware app that you have
    I did uninstall all GPS apps I had and tested a second time and battery was still drained about 35% overnight, which is about the same amount drained when the apps were installed. This indicates that the apps are not the culprit and suggests that leaving the GPS enabled is responsible (I just finished writing all about it in the previous post).

    Note, that not only did the Verizon rep tell me to disable GPS to save battery life, it's written at the official Blackberry website on tips to save battery life: BlackBerry - Battery Power Saving Tips (under Network Connections, it says: Turn off unused connections when not in use, i.e. GPS, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth)
    Last edited by cre8tor; 12-23-10 at 05:08 PM.
    12-23-10 05:00 PM
  15. mb55's Avatar
    I suggest you backup your data and do a factory security wipe. This is the surest way to know there are no other 3rd Party apps. Then do the test. As mentioned, doesn't show in the app switcher does not mean the background task is not running.
    12-23-10 07:43 PM
  16. cre8tor's Avatar
    I think I'm just going to disable GPS whenever I don't need it. Based on my test, that seemed to solve the problem (whether GPS apps were installed or not).

    There may be bad apps out there that try to access the GPS chip even when not turned on, but I don't think I have one of them.

    So mb55, why don't you give it a try? Charge your battery to 100%, do a battery pull, then leave your wi-fi, bluetooth, and GPS on overnight. See what the battery reading is the next day. Then see the difference when you turn them all off.

    Like I said, this isn't going to matter to alot of people since alot of people charge their BB's overnight and they wake up to full charges the next day. To me I was curious where the extra battery power was going when it wasn't being charged overnight and I took measures to see if I had a defective phone. Thank god it appears I don't.
    12-23-10 08:03 PM
  17. cre8tor's Avatar
    I did one last test because I was curious about the effect that the Global setting had on battery life versus the 1XEV setting. So I charged the battery to 100% last night, did a battery pull, disabled GPS, and changed the Mobile Network setting from 1XEV to Global. The next day, the battery life was at 95%, so it had only dropped 5% overnight which is the same amount it dropped at the 1XEV setting (which doesn't seem out of the ordinary). So the Global versus 1XEV setting apparently did not have a significant effect on battery life. At least in my area it didn't (Los Angeles). Perhaps in other areas around the world it may have.

    This re-enforces the significance that GPS setting has on battery life. I've mentioned this before but I'll say it again, if you don't charge your battery every day, then it's probably wise to disable your GPS when you're not using it. Based on my testing and the official Blackberry website, it'll save battery power (significantly in my case).

    Again, here is the battery saving tips page from the official Blackberry website: BlackBerry - Battery Power Saving Tips I hope someone will benefit from this...
    12-24-10 03:00 PM
  18. mb55's Avatar
    Ok, I have tested as you have asked. I charged my Torch 9800 to 100%. Left it overnight with WiFi on, Radio on, GPS on, Bluetooth on.
    By morning, I have 95% battery power.
    12-24-10 06:49 PM
  19. cre8tor's Avatar
    Ok, I have tested as you have asked. I charged my Torch 9800 to 100%. Left it overnight with WiFi on, Radio on, GPS on, Bluetooth on. By morning, I have 95% battery power.
    Again, read the official Blackberry website on battery power savings: BlackBerry - Battery Power Saving Tips (especially under "Network Connections"). Your findings are inconsistent with what Blackberry recommends. And after what I've found myself through my own testing experience, I would never in good conscience tell a Blackberry newbie to leave their Wifii on, radio on, GPS on, and bluetooth on overnight without a charge and then tell them it won't eat battery power (or will only eat 5% battery power). I've actually gone out of my way to test this for the last several days (with and without GPS apps installed), rather than just frivolously post things at the top of my head that I "think" I know or read somewhere on the internet.

    When I started this thread, I was truly trying to get to the bottom of the issue, I wasn't trying to show anyone up or pretend I'm a really smart person. For that reason I would never post threads that weren't true - I've reported the exact percentage battery powers that I found in my BB in my testing - there is no reason to lie. I did it because I really wanted to find the answer and genuinely help someone who has the same issue and who could benefit from this thread. I would never put false values to save face and to help support previous threads I've already committed myself into saying. So anyone reading this entire thread, use your judgment when assessing credibility. Better yet, test it yourself!
    Last edited by cre8tor; 12-25-10 at 07:01 PM.
    12-25-10 05:38 PM
  20. Jude526's Avatar
    You should close out all apps you are using when you are done with them, don't keep them running. This will drain your battery for sure. Keep the backlight at 30 don't have it so bright. Clear out the cache on the browser as well as clearing out your event log and messages and emails if you don't need to save them. Doing these things will definitely help your battery life.
    12-25-10 10:01 PM
  21. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    I would say the signal strength has a lot to do with it, I bought an old 7230 from ebay and I activated a payg sim in it, took it off the charger at 7am and when I got home the battery was still at 100%. My house gets very very poor orange signal and overnight it dropped to 85%

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-26-10 03:42 AM
  22. FatOs's Avatar
    Okay so first of all, this is such an embarrassment to bb lol just had your phone for 2 weeks? And already giving probz! Okay so I think you should put your phone on standby (pressing the mute key) that saves power... I do that when ever I lock my phone, its such a habit. On the other hand, I doubt bb batteries have long life span. I have mine for over a month (second bb) and mine last less than 2days.

    Try the standby mode key then you let me know,

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-26-10 05:52 AM
  23. BoldtotheMax's Avatar
    Just because you are having problems with your phone dropping a significant amount of Battery power, does not mean everyone else will with the same actions as you took.

    I have done your tests a long while ago. I have everything enabled, minus BT as I never use it and drop from 5% to 10% in a given night from 100% charge overnight. Wifi on, GPS...so on and so forth.

    Maybe something is wrong with you battery? Or else like Civic said, could be bad/low signal, which strains the battery more.

    I am always on wifi/UMA at home to boot.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-26-10 08:19 AM
  24. cre8tor's Avatar
    Don't get me wrong, I don't believe I have a faulty battery. I think it's a normal battery. It only loses about 5% overnight without a charge. It's when I leave the GPS enabled (through Options -> Advanced Options -> GPS -> "Location On" for GPS Services) then it loses over 30% overnight without a charge, even after uninstalling all my GPS apps. Because of that I came to the conclusion that my GPS apps weren't responsible. Then I discovered the Blackberry website's tips to save battery power, BlackBerry - Battery Power Saving Tips, and they also indicate to disable GPS when not using it (under Network Connections) so I put two and two together. Now it's possible that a non-GPS app could be causing it (like a news app that wants to track where I'm located all the time) but I'm not going to bother with a factory reset and test every one of them (if I ever do, I'll be sure to write about it here). So the simplest solution in my case is to leave the GPS disabled when I'm not using it. That way no app has access to it, GPS related or not. So I believe this thread has been solved, I just wanted to communicate what I did step-by-step in case anyone else who experiences it can benefit, that's all. And to those folks out there who don't charge every night & who still rely on a single charge to last all week, no matter what anyone says I still wouldn't recommend them to leave their WiFi, GPS, or Bluetooth enabled overnight if they're not using it (based on my own experience and the recommendation of Blackberry).
    Last edited by cre8tor; 12-26-10 at 10:37 PM.
    12-26-10 10:01 PM
  25. rjl2001's Avatar
    Thanks for doing the tests and letting us know. I might also check to see how much battery my Bold 9650 loses overnight under the same circumstances. I had used a Bold 9700 for a while, and immediately noticed my battery life was much shorter when I got the 9650. This could also relate to different degrees of coverage with the new carrier, but my research seemed to indicate the Bold 9700 overall has a noticeably better battery life.

    Otherwise, I know they sell extended batteries that either fit in the original battery compartment or come with a bulged out battery cover. So far haven't decided to spend the money though, because like you mentioned I usually am able to charge it overnight. During the first couple weeks I had the 9650 I did a lot of trial and error testing myself and decided to dim the backlight, disable GPS in the settings when not using it, same for wifi and bluetooth.

    As a side note I use a couple sports score apps on my phone, and if I ever accidentally exit without fully closing it eats battery life super fast, probably wouldn't last more than ten hours or so. Think I accidentally did the same thing with Google Maps once or twice, didn't fully close out of it, and hours later the low battery warning came up.
    12-27-10 12:01 AM
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