[alby4ever]

Actually I think that was the perfect analogy, keep thinking to yourself that RIM is failing when they are still doing quite well and STILL in the lead. Maybe they won't be in the future and yes I do agree innovation is key to making sure they don't sink too far. Everyone thought Motorola was going to fail then Behold the Razr, then they start sinking again and now the moto Droid gets released and once again Motorola is doing very very well. One great item is all it would take from RIM. I'm not even a fanboy I just think people like the one above are pathetic because there opinion has to be the right one and doesn't know a good analogy.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Actually that's a terrible analogy. I'm not the only one who thinks RIM is failing - try reading the news. I'm sure that's why Crackberry pasted the article about how RIM can be at the top again? Keep ignoring reality, market trends, and business sense. And you should be looking at Palm, not Motorola - again, thinking helps.

An actual proper analogy would be to compare RIM to the Ford Pinto because BB fanboys love to say "it does what I need, so why do I need a fancy browser and apps?" A Ford Pinto does what you need for a car. It gets you from Point A to Point B. So Ford Pinto drivers ask why they would need today's cars with power windows (but I can manually roll down the windows myself!), CD players (today's music is garbage so why do I need this?), and yada yada yada.

The ignorance of BB fanboys who have never used other platforms is astounding. I've used the Bold 9000. Any other smartphone after that is a huge upgrade. If you don't understand how an archaic platform with horrible developer support doesn't spell doom, then you are pretty ignorant. That's why you see many "what's wrong with BB" threads and that's why there's a sticky thread up there that's all about switching from BB's.

For those who say BB's do all you need, that's great because I can see many scenarios where that's very true. For those who even think BB's hold a candle to Android and iPhone, ignorance is bliss ain't it? That's the beauty of free speech.

Keep trying.

[TheIgster]

I think the word "fanboy" should be banned from this forum.

[Exiled Bulldawg]

Yet latest numbers from RIM inducates a 45% GM on phones. That's not to shabby.

And remember that unlike the other manufscturers who must sell handsets to generate revenues, RIM gets a constant monthly revenue stream from activated phones, so the don't have to rely on double digit growth on new handsets.

As I have said before, the market is fickle. In the US, both Motorola and Nokia were the handsets people purchased, now both are third tier. Companies that do not innovate (Motorola or Palm,) wait too late to bring products to market (Palm or MS,) or generally antagonize their customers (Sprint, Dell, MS) get hit hard.

In so far as the recurring revenue from subscriber fees, that is a blessing and a curse. It could be why VZW doesn't really market Blackberry as hard as Android. The carrier gets paid the same for either plan, so why pay RIM? For "data conservation?" Please. VZW built its network out, and is about to build a 4G network in addition to it, so they aren't interested in conserving data - they want to sell the **** out of it! Having worked in telecom/cable, I can tell you those fees are looked at closely and any method of reducing the payment is discussed. TV Guide is a prime example. They get a monthly charge per subscriber, but that fee is looked at really closely.

If RIM doesn't remain top tier, they will lose their pricing power. Contract or no. It's a tough business, and if a company doesn't have a technical or consumer edge, pricing power doesn't exist. Don't believe me? Take a peak at what's going on in land line data plans. The posted prices aren't what people are paying, consumers can get specials and leave when the cherry price is over. Ever wonder why the cable companies used to offer the snazzy e-mail? It was considered a hook to keep the customer, that's why.

Why do all Android fanboys keep ignoring the fact that the blackberry browser problem has been fixed a long time ago by Opera and Bolt browser?
Does it really have to be a browser made by RIM? They work, they're fast and they're free, what more do you want? I thought that was the main point of apps, to make something better.
You really can't throw the browser in our face anymore.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Ok. I don't know where to begin with this. First, I will say I am not a "fanboy," I actually want a workable native browser on the Berry platform. I have used Bolt and Opera, however, they are limited by what they can and cannot do. They load slow. It's a common theme. Secondly, IMO RIM needs to step up - a first rate phone, with full capabilities. Really, the webkit should do that, however, as I have said before they are notorious for delays and slow roll outs.

When someone identifies so closely with a device any disagreement is "throw[ing] it in our face[s]" there might be an objectivity issue.

I really want a Berry that has a full browser. One that efficiently runs Java script. I never found one on the Berry platform that was as good as the native browsers on iPhone, Android, or WebOS. Which is a crying shame - RIM spent shareholder money to acquire the technology. Now, where is that technology?

I am holding off on any new contracts on the off chance RIM will produce a product to knock all of my socks off. That said, I am not going to hold my breath.

[Denise in Los Angeles]

Actually that's a terrible analogy. I'm not the only one who thinks RIM is failing - try reading the news. I'm sure that's why Crackberry pasted the article about how RIM can be at the top again? Keep ignoring reality, market trends, and business sense. And you should be looking at Palm, not Motorola - again, thinking helps.

An actual proper analogy would be to compare RIM to the Ford Pinto because BB fanboys love to say "it does what I need, so why do I need a fancy browser and apps?" A Ford Pinto does what you need for a car. It gets you from Point A to Point B. So Ford Pinto drivers ask why they would need today's cars with power windows (but I can manually roll down the windows myself!), CD players (today's music is garbage so why do I need this?), and yada yada yada.

The ignorance of BB fanboys who have never used other platforms is astounding. I've used the Bold 9000. Any other smartphone after that is a huge upgrade. That's why you see many "what's wrong with BB" threads and that's why there's a sticky thread up there that's all about switching from BB's.

For those who say BB's do all you need, that's great because I can see many scenarios where that's very true. For those who even think BB's hold a candle to Android and iPhone, ignorance is bliss ain't it? That's the beauty of free speech.
Keep trying.

Free speech is a right, yes... but please try to be less rude to others here
on CB. Insults and flaming comments or remarks are against the rules of
this forum.

I truly wish some Mod would start handing out warnings today, because
this has gone on way too long in this thread.

[belfastdispatcher]

Why oh why does RIM have to be at the top? Who cares if they are second? How is that failing? And by the way, Nokia is still at the top globally, USA market is not really that important, the world is big
RIM is after the world not USA or UK, they can sell far more cheaper handsets and make more profits while they're at it.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[TgeekB]

I think the word "fanboy" should be banned from this forum.

Thank you. My thoughts exactly.

[TgeekB]

Why oh why does RIM have to be at the top? Who cares if they are second? How is that failing? And by the way, Nokia is still at the top globally, USA market is not really that important, the world is big
RIM is after the world not USA or UK, they can sell far more cheaper handsets and make more profits while they're at it.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Because some people base their self-worth on the car they drive, the phone they carry, etc. They cannot be #2. Sad really.

[davidnc]

Debates like this are pointless.

My thoughts exactly (yawn),,,,,, use what works for you ,they both work for me for what they do.

But ,,the android browser is alot quicker tho , I have use bolt on my curve, and tour

[belfastdispatcher]

Because some people base their self-worth on the car they drive, the phone they carry, etc. They cannot be #2. Sad really.

I actually have a lot of respect for people I see with older blackberries. I see a lot of politicians with them, constantly on them
I was doing a lot of deliveries to them before local elections. Now I know it was the 8700 they were using.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Exiled Bulldawg]

Why oh why does RIM have to be at the top? Who cares if they are second? How is that failing? And by the way, Nokia is still at the top globally, USA market is not really that important, the world is big
RIM is after the world not USA or UK, they can sell far more cheaper handsets and make more profits while they're at it.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

LOL there is some merit to the argument! Maybe their goal is to be the lowest cost handset manufacturer. If that is the goal, then the 85X0 is a good start - low end hardware, cheap construction, old software, so it would definitely be a step in the right direction.

That said, I wouldn't want to work there if their goal wasn't to be number one. As trite as it may be today, what with giving everyone a trophy and worrying about everyone's self esteem, I seem to remember growing up learning second place was first loser and I should work harder until I won. Or, another way of saying it, being number two is being number two (as in restroom.)

EDIT: I drive an older vehicle, because it gets the job done. I don't get my worth from the things I own, I simply expect any tool to be first quality.

[belfastdispatcher]

LOL there is some merit to the argument! Maybe their goal is to be the lowest cost handset manufacturer. If that is the goal, then the 85X0 is a good start - low end hardware, cheap construction, old software, so it would definitely be a step in the right direction.

That said, I wouldn't want to work there if their goal wasn't to be number one. As trite as it may be today, what with giving everyone a trophy and worrying about everyone's self esteem, I seem to remember growing up learning second place was first loser and I should work harder until I won. Or, another way of saying it, being number two is being number two (as in restroom.)

Ah but you see, it's the profits that matter not the ranking. While we argue here the real owners are laughing all the way to the bank. Again, everybody is dismissing Nokia but they are still the no1 manufacturer. Who's making the cash? Nokia is.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[fecurtis]

You guys do realise that the touch screen blackberry is the odd one out, all qwerty blackberries also benefit from a lot of shortcuts in all the browsers, especially the standard one. How many flicks of the finger do you need to go to the bottom of the page? With blackberry just one, press b, r to refresh, p to view, copy or send page address, space for page down, t for top, the list go on.
Blackberry browsers might not be the fastest but as an overall experience in usability it's quite fast. Most people don't bother to learn all these shortcuts.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Yeah those were nice on my 8830, but it's no deal breaker to not have them. I'd still rather a touchscreen, much more real estate to actually view the pages on. And in overall experience in usability, it's not fast, it actually needs a lot to improve on. Luckily RIM is working on it. Going around a webpage on an iPhone or Android phone is a much better experience, you'd be foolish to argue otherwise.

[fecurtis]

Why oh why does RIM have to be at the top? Who cares if they are second? How is that failing? And by the way, Nokia is still at the top globally, USA market is not really that important, the world is big
RIM is after the world not USA or UK, they can sell far more cheaper handsets and make more profits while they're at it.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Considering that the US has one of the largest markets in the world, I'd say it's important...obviously it's fine to suck in the UK...that's just two countries...well an island and a part of another one.

Not being on top just shows a trend, people are going elsewhere for their phones. Their stock price shows investors have more faith in Apple and Google as RIMs stock is falling like dominoes despite strong sales.

You do have a point, RIM seems more interested in making low cost, high margin machines hence why the Curve is one of the most popular phones around...despite the fact that it doesn't do anything particularly well.

That seems to be the way RIM wants to do business, which is fine for them, so long as it makes them money. If that is the case, then Apple and Google can go at it to find out who the best high end smartphone maker is.

[fecurtis]

Ah but you see, it's the profits that matter not the ranking. While we argue here the real owners are laughing all the way to the bank. Again, everybody is dismissing Nokia but they are still the no1 manufacturer. Who's making the cash? Nokia is.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

I can see you aren't privvy to the industry.

Nokia is still the largest manufacturer of smartphones yes. They did it by volume, they build and sell a ton of cheap smartphones to markets all over the world.

Ironic...look at their shareholder value...it's been dropping for quite sometime. They're biggest problem though is having high revenues but crappy margins. If you notice, a company that loses 71% of its value in 3 years isn't "laughing all the way to the bank".

Profits don't matter as much as profit margins and shareholder value.

[mas3222]

Actually that's a terrible analogy. I'm not the only one who thinks RIM is failing - try reading the news. I'm sure that's why Crackberry pasted the article about how RIM can be at the top again? Keep ignoring reality, market trends, and business sense. And you should be looking at Palm, not Motorola - again, thinking helps.

An actual proper analogy would be to compare RIM to the Ford Pinto because BB fanboys love to say "it does what I need, so why do I need a fancy browser and apps?" A Ford Pinto does what you need for a car. It gets you from Point A to Point B. So Ford Pinto drivers ask why they would need today's cars with power windows (but I can manually roll down the windows myself!), CD players (today's music is garbage so why do I need this?), and yada yada yada.

The ignorance of BB fanboys who have never used other platforms is astounding. I've used the Bold 9000. Any other smartphone after that is a huge upgrade. If you don't understand how an archaic platform with horrible developer support doesn't spell doom, then you are pretty ignorant. That's why you see many "what's wrong with BB" threads and that's why there's a sticky thread up there that's all about switching from BB's.

For those who say BB's do all you need, that's great because I can see many scenarios where that's very true. For those who even think BB's hold a candle to Android and iPhone, ignorance is bliss ain't it? That's the beauty of free speech.

Keep trying.

Then I guess that's a bad analogy too as the Ford may have made the Pinto but because Toyota (a company that got too big) started failing due to recalls and Ford pushed to the Top. And all those extra features from your pinto analogy is not ignorance for not wanting them its preference. So I don't need a million apps and StudentDocket and docs to go works for me why should I choose to go to a phone that I don't like using? Its not ignorance its my needs. You sir, are the ignorant one if you really think people are jealous of other platforms. And no I did not compare to Palm due to it was basically a long lasting start up business so you sir, should be ranting on someone elses post. So while a company may not have the most exciting things for a period that doesn't mean they will fail and people always go back to who they can trust. And its not just being ignorant to better things out there its what you like. I don't like the iPhones UI and prefer the BB UI. Everyone has a preference and the grass is NOT always greener on the other side.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[fecurtis]

Because some people base their self-worth on the car they drive, the phone they carry, etc. They cannot be #2. Sad really.

Wrong, as stated its something a company should look out for, ask why they're losing market share and do what they can to compete...it's why focus groups exist.

If you're happy that a company be complacent, then hopefully you'll have no plans of starting your own business.

I personally don't consider overall market share or profitability when making a purchase, however, it is indicative of market trends.

There's a reason why their market share is falling alongside their shareholder value and there's a reason why a lot of developers won't support it to develop apps, if RIM is smart, they'd find out why and innovate instead of follow or worse do nothing (like Palm did until they FINALLY decided to come out with WebOS and the Pre).

Or they can do what Nokia is doing and focus on high volume smartphones (i.e. Curve)....look at both Palm and Nokia....they've certainly seen better days....those better days were back when they were actually innovative before deciding to stop since they were on top of the hill.

[Exiled Bulldawg]

Ah but you see, it's the profits that matter not the ranking. While we argue here the real owners are laughing all the way to the bank. Again, everybody is dismissing Nokia but they are still the no1 manufacturer. Who's making the cash? Nokia is.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

LOL Nokia actually has pretty stagnant earnings growth! I haven't ran the ROI or ROA, nor have I looked at the cash flow. But a quick glance at the quarterly earnings shows its flat, excluding the quarter ended 12/31/2010, which should be expected to be more (I would have to adjust the numbers for seasonality to get a true picture of earnings)

RIMM is steadily growing, although the growth is slow. Slow growth is worrisome with a high stock price.

[Exiled Bulldawg]

I can see you aren't privvy to the industry.

Nokia is still the largest manufacturer of smartphones yes. They did it by volume, they build and sell a ton of cheap smartphones to markets all over the world.

Ironic...look at their shareholder value...it's been dropping for quite sometime. They're biggest problem though is having high revenues but crappy margins. If you notice, a company that loses 71% of its value in 3 years isn't "laughing all the way to the bank".

Profits don't matter as much as profit margins and shareholder value.

Profits matter, but ROI and ROA matter a lot more. Making a $100 million yearly profit sounds nice.... unless that's on $3,000 million of invested capital. Then it's less than an investor could earn in other investments that are much safer. ROI matters for context. I agree with you.

[alby4ever]

Then I guess that's a bad analogy too as the Ford may have made the Pinto but because Toyota (a company that got too big) started failing due to recalls and Ford pushed to the Top. And all those extra features from your pinto analogy is not ignorance for not wanting them its preference. So I don't need a million apps and StudentDocket and docs to go works for me why should I choose to go to a phone that I don't like using? Its not ignorance its my needs. You sir, are the ignorant one if you really think people are jealous of other platforms. And no I did not compare to Palm due to it was basically a long lasting start up business so you sir, should be ranting on someone elses post. So while a company may not have the most exciting things for a period that doesn't mean they will fail and people always go back to who they can trust. And its not just being ignorant to better things out there its what you like. I don't like the iPhones UI and prefer the BB UI. Everyone has a preference and the grass is NOT always greener on the other side.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

You understand the tech industry a little bit better than belfastdispatcher but that isn't saying much (he used Nokia as a positive example = biggest fail).

So you're excluding Palm because they were a little startup? Gee then what is Google?

Everyone who actually knows the industry (aka not you) uses Palm as a reference because they at one time were the top of the food chain business device maker. Palm Pilots were the Blackberry's back then. Is this something hard to understand? Considering you still don't get a simple but valid analogy (and keep presenting horrible illogical analogies as a rebuttal), I wouldn't be surprised if you still don't get why Palm is always mentioned.

In regards to you defending the Pinto (the auto equivalent of a Blackberry), there's this thing called the "free market" where competition dictates who survives and who gets left behind. There will always be a few people who prefer a Pinto, but the entire industry (especially the leading competitors) is moving forward with new features that consumers want (more airbags, built-in navigation, etc). Because these features are being pushed out left and right to consumers, they want them more. Then they see the Pinto and realize it's a piece of junk.

Connect the dots. That's how analogies work. Seriously, try it.

[belfastdispatcher]

You understand the tech industry a little bit better than belfastdispatcher but that isn't saying much (he used Nokia as a positive example = biggest fail).

So you're excluding Palm because they were a little startup? Gee then what is Google?

Everyone who actually knows the industry (aka not you) uses Palm as a reference because they at one time were the top of the food chain business device maker. Palm Pilots were the Blackberry's back then. Is this something hard to understand? Considering you still don't get a simple but valid analogy (and keep presenting horrible illogical analogies as a rebuttal), I wouldn't be surprised if you still don't get why Palm is always mentioned.

In regards to you defending the Pinto (the auto equivalent of a Blackberry), there's this thing called the "free market" where competition dictates who survives and who gets left behind. There will always be a few people who prefer a Pinto, but the entire industry (especially the leading competitors) is moving forward with new features that consumers want (more airbags, built-in navigation, etc). Because these features are being pushed out left and right to consumers, they want them more. Then they see the Pinto and realize it's a piece of junk.

Connect the dots. That's how analogies work. Seriously, try it.

Is it a coincidence that Palm started going down when they didn't allow blackberry connect on their devices anymore? Also Nokia allowed this up to their E61 but not after on any of their business phones.

In one country I know people just got their wages slashed by 25% and the vat went up by 5% I seriously doubt they'll be rushing to buy androids or iphones anytime soon. At least Rim has the cheaper option as well as expensive one.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Exiled Bulldawg]

Is it a coincidence that Palm started going down when they didn't allow blackberry connect on their devices anymore? Also Nokia allowed this up to their E61 but not after on any of their business phones.

In one country I know people just got their wages slashed by 25% and the vat went up by 5% I seriously doubt they'll be rushing to buy androids or iphones anytime soon. At least Rim has the cheaper option as well as expensive one.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

LOL comparing Greece to a free market economy is like comparing the Soviet Union or the PRC to the US before Obama/Pelosi/Reid. Lookit, when the government can cut your wages, that's a problem. And in that type of socialism, "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need" leads to next to no disposable income. Heck, who NEEDS a phone anyway? Or electricity 24 hours a day? Come now!!! But "healthcare" is free!!!! Just overlook that half of wages and GDP are controlled by that wonderous efficient organization called government!!! All the efficiency of the Postal Service and all the caring and compassion of the IRS!!!! LMAO

If countries like Greece are RIM's target markets, they might as well get ready for a steady stream of foreign currency losses. If you don't know what that is, please look it up. It's why inflation kills trade.

I think the reason Palm failed was they took about 6 years to crank out a new OS. Nokia didn't turn out truly appealing devices for a couple of years. Does either sound familiar?

[fecurtis]

Is it a coincidence that Palm started going down when they didn't allow blackberry connect on their devices anymore? Also Nokia allowed this up to their E61 but not after on any of their business phones.

In one country I know people just got their wages slashed by 25% and the vat went up by 5% I seriously doubt they'll be rushing to buy androids or iphones anytime soon. At least Rim has the cheaper option as well as expensive one.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

Really? You used Greece as an example? When your country has gone damn near bankrupt because they spent money like its water and they don't have the flexibility to adjust their currency (most of us across the pond knew the Euro was a stupid idea) then the last thing people who are unemployed or just had my wages slashed, "What smartphone should I get now?" would be the last thing going through my mind.

Palm failed because they ignored the threat Blackberry poised...kinda like what RIM, to a certain degree, is doing with Apple and Google.

[fecurtis]

LOL comparing Greece to a free market economy is like comparing the Soviet Union or the PRC to the US before Obama/Pelosi/Reid. Lookit, when the government can cut your wages, that's a problem. And in that type of socialism, "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need" leads to next to no disposable income. Heck, who NEEDS a phone anyway? Or electricity 24 hours a day? Come now!!! But "healthcare" is free!!!! Just overlook that half of wages and GDP are controlled by that wonderous efficient organization called government!!! All the efficiency of the Postal Service and all the caring and compassion of the IRS!!!! LMAO

If countries like Greece are RIM's target markets, they might as well get ready for a steady stream of foreign currency losses. If you don't know what that is, please look it up. It's why inflation kills trade.

I think the reason Palm failed was they took about 6 years to crank out a new OS. Nokia didn't turn out truly appealing devices for a couple of years. Does either sound familiar?

I hope you aren't asserting that healthcare bankrupt Greece, far from it. Greece has had their "evil socialistic" healthcare system for decades as does countries that are actually very capitalistic...like Switzerland.

Inflation kills trade yes, but Greece can't manipulate their currency no matter how badly it wants to. Spain is having similar problems although not as dire as Greece.

Alas I digress, the thread is slowly moving off topic and don't wish to get into any political debates or anything.

[Exiled Bulldawg]

I hope you aren't asserting that healthcare bankrupt Greece, far from it. Greece has had their "evil socialistic" healthcare system for decades as does countries that are actually very capitalistic...like Switzerland.

Inflation kills trade yes, but Greece can't manipulate their currency no matter how badly it wants to. Spain is having similar problems although not as dire as Greece.

Alas I digress, the thread is slowly moving off topic and don't wish to get into any political debates or anything.

Might want to read the whole post. Nationalized health insurance didn't do them in. It was the culmination of the whole socialist system. The government in Greece required certain occupations, read nearly all occupations, retired early at full pay because they "were stressful" or exposed to "chemicals." Hairdressers were on that list. Socialism doesn't work because, well, folks work less under those systems. Just like Medicare/Medicaid exists like a parasite on all insured, tax payers and cash payers of health care. Obama put forth no plan. The one Congress passed will not put a bandaid on anyone. Ever. It just determines how hospitals and doctors get paid. It's actually nationalized health insurance, not "health care."

That's off topic for here, but rest assured the end of the Soviet Union, problems Greece, France, Argentina and other countries are having is because folks want something for nothing. And, yes all socialism is an abomination in my eyes. Who is anyone to tell me what I need? Or, worse, what my abilities are?

As I always tell my staff, there are no free rides. Grass, gas or ***, nobody rides for free... No, it's not in sexual manner, its about giving away "free" stuff or not collecting after the sale.

Either way, if RIM's strategy is bottom feeding, then its stock price won't be supported...

[fecurtis]

Might want to read the whole post. Nationalized health insurance didn't do them in. It was the culmination of the whole socialist system. The government in Greece required certain occupations, read nearly all occupations, retired early at full pay because they "were stressful" or exposed to "chemicals." Hairdressers were on that list. Socialism doesn't work because, well, folks work less under those systems. Just like Medicare/Medicaid exists like a parasite on all insured and cash payers of health insurance.

That's off topic for here, but rest assured the end of the Soviet Union, problems Greece, France, Argentina and other countries are having is because folks want something for nothing. And, yes all socialism is an abomination in my eyes. Who is anyone to tell me what I need? Or, worse, what my abilities are?

As I always tell my staff, there are no free rides. Grass, gas or ***, nobody rides for free..

Yeah true I agree that socialism typically doesn't work...it has been shown to work in some places (Denmark, Norway, Sweden) but not in others.

It's kinda like pointing at our economy and situation and stating "capitalism doesn't work". It does, like anything else, it depends on several metrics.

I love how a discussion on Apple, Google, and RIM somehow turned into socialism/capitalism/Greece.