01-27-09 04:26 PM
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  1. toddspch's Avatar
    I saw that Blackberry messenger isn't "private, since my BB goes thru my IT dept via Blackberry Enterprise Service.

    My question -- is anything "private" or secure? Any of the other IM applications (Yahoo Messenger, AIM, Google Talk, etc.)? How about my web browsing or if I access gmail or yahoo mail thru the web browser on the Blackberry?

    Thanks.
    01-27-09 08:10 AM
  2. jackie treehorn's Avatar
    I'm not a hundred percent sure, but I believe that if you are on bes everything can be monitored
    01-27-09 08:16 AM
  3. coachcurtisbusse's Avatar
    Yes I agree with addict, even if someone wants to come out with a IM or Messenger / Email they will detect it.

    Only thing that comes to mind is webbased messengers they are the same as Aim,Msn,Yahoo, ICQ, Skype. But are done on a website incrypted. But to completey honest I think they could detect that as well as they can see anything comming in or leaving the server....

    I think its unfair I know its theirs and you could be sendinh co. Secrets but. Since we all know the IT"s must do this we should use our own private phones or do it at home on our own PC's

    But I do hate snoops

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-27-09 08:23 AM
  4. toddspch's Avatar
    Thanks -- so far -- I should have clarified that the Blackberry is mine -- it's my personal phone thru Verizon and I pay the bill (I just get to submit the $44.99 expense for the BES so I can get company email). Not sure it that makes a difference.
    01-27-09 08:27 AM
  5. Spinny's Avatar
    Absolutely nothing that goes through a BES server is private. Technically, archives of anything that goes through BIS (or IM) servers is also subject to being seized if enough intimidation is involved. You cannot assume the privacy of anything that goes out on any network, unless you use some sort of end-to-end encryption--and even that can possibly be broken if, say, NSA is interested enough.
    01-27-09 08:31 AM
  6. Curve63049's Avatar
    Wait a second . . .

    I'm no techie, but I believe BIS and BES can co-exist on a single device.

    Email messages between the device and BES are encrypted . . . email between the device and BIS is not . . . isn't the later why some companies running BES *disable* (by means of an IT policy) BIS and PIN messaging - so that all email between the device and the "rest of the world" is encrypted?

    And PIN messages run only through RIM's servers, which is why some companies *disable* PIN messaging - because they can't see or control PIN messaging..

    Again, I'm not techie, but - if your IT policies allow it - BIS stuff runs through BIS; and BES stuff runs through BES.
    01-27-09 08:42 AM
  7. Spinny's Avatar
    But what prevents the owner of the BES server--or RIM--from being forced to turn over their records to various legal and/or government entities, especially in these times? My point is there's no such thing as real privacy if you're sending things over a network. The data can be kept where it's not available to casual inspection, but it can be gotten to.

    Maybe I'm just too paranoid.
    01-27-09 08:47 AM
  8. Curve63049's Avatar
    Technically, archives of anything that goes through BIS (or IM) servers is also subject to being seized if enough intimidation is involved. You cannot assume the privacy of anything that goes out on any network, unless you use some sort of end-to-end encryption--and even that can possibly be broken if, say, NSA is interested enough.
    I didn't understand the OP as asking whether *anyone* can read his messages if he hooked up to his company's BES.

    I believe his "concern" is this: he has a personal, private email (e.g., xxx@gmail.com) that he has synced to his BB, via BIS.

    Now, in addition, he wants to hook into his company's BES to get his work email synced to his BB.

    His question, I think, is this: can work "see" his personal, private emails?

    I think the answer is "no" - IF his work doesn't have an IT policy on his device disabling BIS, then his BIS email still pass through BIS.
    01-27-09 08:48 AM
  9. Spinny's Avatar
    You're probably right.
    01-27-09 08:50 AM
  10. Curve63049's Avatar
    But what prevents the owner of the BES server--or RIM--from being forced to turn over their records to various legal and/or government entities, especially in these times? My point is there's no such thing as real privacy if you're sending things over a network. The data can be kept where it's not available to casual inspection, but it can be gotten to.

    Maybe I'm just too paranoid.
    With PIN to PIN, RIM claims that it keeps no record of it. Therefore, PIN to PIN messages exist in only two places: the sender's device and the recipient's device. Delete it from both and the "message" never existed.
    01-27-09 08:51 AM
  11. Spinny's Avatar
    With PIN to PIN, RIM claims that it keeps no record of it.
    Interesting, I didn't know that. Thanks.
    01-27-09 08:55 AM
  12. coachcurtisbusse's Avatar
    I am not IT Tech, but if msgs are sent through a server or air waves any freqs I think they could be grabbed IMO, as far as stored on a HD or somEthing I can see where you coming from I think anytHing can be intercepted like a brett favre pass.
    01-27-09 09:48 AM
  13. Boots4283's Avatar
    EVERYTHING about your BB can be read by your BESadmin.
    01-27-09 11:50 AM
  14. SevereDeceit's Avatar
    My BES buddy logs messages from BlackBerry Messenger, e-mails, SMS's, call logs, etc. for 2 years on his servers. This is why they call BES "Big Brother"...
    01-27-09 11:56 AM
  15. toddspch's Avatar
    Thanks -- I'm still confused though. Would anyone know if there is a way to check if I'm actually sending emails, BBM's, etc. thru BIS or BES?
    01-27-09 12:09 PM
  16. jackie treehorn's Avatar
    What plan do you have?
    01-27-09 12:14 PM
  17. toddspch's Avatar
    Blackberry Enterprise $44.99/month with Verizon.
    01-27-09 01:49 PM
  18. jackie treehorn's Avatar
    Then it will be going throught bes
    Last edited by addict83; 01-27-09 at 01:52 PM. Reason: spelling
    01-27-09 01:50 PM
  19. amazinglygraceless's Avatar
    Then it will be going throught bes
    Not necessarily. The user could have just signed up for the wrong type of plan.
    If it is a personal phone and not attached to a corporate network a call to
    the carrier to switch to a personal plan is in order. That has come up quite
    a few times here.
    01-27-09 02:04 PM
  20. toddspch's Avatar
    Nope -- the BES plan was intentional -- I guess the conclusion is that because of the BES plan, everything goes thru my IT network?
    01-27-09 02:16 PM
  21. Bulldogwrst's Avatar
    Word to the wise..... Nothing on the network is private. RIM may not keep a database of PIN 2 PIN messages, the messages had to pass thur varies switches, routers, hubs, and servers to get from your device to the other party. The message is kept in memory until it has been marked as delivered and then still exists until it has been over written by another message. Anyone with access to those devices can monitor and with some affort even read your messages.
    01-27-09 02:18 PM
  22. amazinglygraceless's Avatar
    Nope -- the BES plan was intentional -- I guess the conclusion is that because of the BES plan, everything goes thru my IT network?
    In that case, Yes. The possibility exists. But keep in mind, just because a BES
    administrator CAN monitor almost everything DOES NOT mean they will. Best
    advice is to use your phone thinking that they do.
    01-27-09 02:20 PM
  23. Curve63049's Avatar
    Boots wrote:

    VERYTHING about your BB can be read by your BESadmin.
    I'm wondering how this can be since - my understanding - is that you could make PIN to PIN messages EVEN IF your company's BES was cratered.

    That's why - as I understand it - BB's (as opposed to other types of smart phones) are the "back-up" communications choice of emergency responders.

    Again, no techie - just going by what I've read about PIN to PIN (perhaps the authors of these pieces were wrong?)
    01-27-09 03:14 PM
  24. Spinny's Avatar
    A little Googling turned this post up:

    http://www.blackberryforums.com/gene...ml#post1246722
    01-27-09 03:22 PM
  25. Curve63049's Avatar
    A little Googling turned this post up:
    Spinny . . . .owww . . . reading that made my head want to explode!

    If IT wants to read the racy messages I send my wife, so be it.
    01-27-09 04:00 PM
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