1. Atrus's Avatar
    So, I've asked the question on here and did a search and fully understand that a BES administrator can see basically anything they want to on a user's BB.

    I e-mailed my administrator and asked how information is used on our server. The response was "The personal email, phone service, and text messages all run through the service provider. [Company name removed] only services the corporate email, calendar, and address book function using Lotus Notes."

    My question is to ask how does the information get to my phone? I have Verizon. Understandably, the administrator can access my phone to get internet logs and whatnot. What I'd want to know is, is everything flowing through their server? Or does it come off Verizon's network? Let's say I use Opera, what's the flow of information from crackberry.com to my device?

    Basically, I am in an organization with well over 100k people. I don't really see an admin going out of their way to check my phone. I do wonder, though, if I am streaming radio or something if it's using up bandwith and going through their server. That, IMO, is asking for an admin to check my phone.

    What is the flow for:

    Calls?
    Text Messages?
    Personal (yahoo, Gmail) E-Mail?
    Internet Browsing - Opera?
    Internet Browsing - BB?

    Is it Verizon-to-phone, or Verizon-to-company BES-to-phone?

    Hopefully the question makes sense.
    09-16-08 12:36 PM
  2. smaug's Avatar
    The BES is going to take any corporate emails that come in and push them to your phone. It also is going to sync your phone with your calendar, tasks, memopad..whatever else is in Lotus Notes. Everything else: texts, personal emails, browsing, will go through Verizon, and your BES server will never see it.

    With 100,000 users, they want to minimize the amount their servers are going to have to do, so I'm sure they keep it to the bare minimum.

    This is how it works from what I understand, I've never personally managed a BES or anything, though. I'm sure they could pull any history they wanted off your phone, but with 100,000 users, I highly doubt they'll be checking for anything, unless they think you are doing something illegal.
    09-16-08 12:41 PM
  3. sniffs's Avatar
    That is false that the BES wont ever see it. Everything done on the BB itself is captured in a log file on the phone of which the BES and BES admin have access to.

    The newest BES version, captures all phone call logs, sms, and browsing history, what urls you visit, how many times you visit them, etc.. The only thing I think it doesnt log is a BIS account.. but I haven't even looked to verify this.

    Your company has 100,000 BB users? that's AMAZING! How does your BES admin manage that? Wow.. you sure all 100,000 people have BB's? I go insane with my 2600 and i thought that was alot..

    The calls go through VZ's towers/servers to your phone.

    The BB data goes from Verizon's servers through RIM's network in Canada, then to your BB. If RIM's network goes down, all Blackberry specific data goes down also, even if Verizon's data network is still functioning.
    09-16-08 12:56 PM
  4. smaug's Avatar
    That is false that the BES wont ever see it. Everything done on the BB itself is captured in a log file on the phone of which the BES and BES admin have access to.

    The newest BES version, captures all phone call logs, sms, and browsing history, what urls you visit, how many times you visit them, etc.. The only thing I think it doesnt log is a BIS account.. but I haven't even looked to verify this.
    So you're saying that the server logs everything the person does, but the data itself doesn't go through it?
    09-16-08 12:58 PM
  5. sniffs's Avatar
    So you're saying that the server logs everything the person does, but the data itself doesn't go through it?
    It doesn't directly log anything that doesnt go through MDS. The BB itself logs this of which the BES can and does capture those logs. I forgot the key command but there's a way to view these logs and delete/clear them.

    Pretty much every single thing done on the BB is logged in one way, shape or form.
    Last edited by sniffs; 09-16-08 at 01:09 PM.
    09-16-08 01:04 PM
  6. smaug's Avatar
    It doesn't directly log anything that doesnt go through MDS. The BB itself logs this of which the BES can and does capture those logs. I forgot the key command but there's a way to view these logs and delete/clear them.

    Pretty much every single thing done on the BB is logged in one way, shape or form.
    I figured as much. I'm just curious what data goes through the BES, exactly.
    09-16-08 01:25 PM
  7. sniffs's Avatar
    The data that goes through the BES is all Outlook info, any sort of 3rd party apps that is set to go through MDS, such as IM software, NFL programs, etc. and then any browser other than AT&T's "MEdia Net" which goes directly out to the internet.

    PS. even though it does go directly to the internet, it's still logged.
    Last edited by sniffs; 09-16-08 at 01:33 PM.
    09-16-08 01:30 PM
  8. Atrus's Avatar
    Sniffs - so in my specific case, let's go with a hypothetical.

    I have Verizon. Let's say I use Opera Mini, if that makes a difference.

    On a Sat, let's say the BES goes down for a couple of hours. Understandably, I will not have any BES functions - calendar, e-mail, etc pushed to my phone during the outage.

    Would I still be able to have internet access during this time?

    I realize that the phone will log what I do, and then when the server is up and running an admin can request that info from my phone.

    I just want to know if everything other than the BES-specific application runs seperate from my company's network.
    09-16-08 05:56 PM
  9. sniffs's Avatar
    If the BES goes down you will still have internet access..

    If you install a program that gives you the option of what method to connect, then you can connect and bypass the MDS. Some 3rd party apps do this.
    09-17-08 10:05 AM
  10. somachu's Avatar
    I'm no BES admin so correct me if I'm wrong but...

    While BES has the options to log just about everything not every company enables these options when it comes to SMS, IMs, and other non exchange related stuff. They need at least BES 4.1 or higher to do this and the options are not enabled by default. There are a few reasons companies will not want to log all this data. Depending on a companys data retention policy (and how they communicate/enforce it) not keeping data like this can avoid legal liability issues. Also, with a huge company with that many BBs maintaining the DBs and that much information could be more effort then it's worth.

    I had similar concerns and still undecided what to do. I have a personal curve on our company BES. I asked our BES admin if we log SMS, IMs, and such and was told no. I don't manage the BES environment but have the access to look and check for myself to confirm. I'm not into anything that would get me in trouble if anyone was snooping but I don't like the idea of anyone being able to read what my wife might txt me in case they enable these settings BUT I'm required to be able to answer emails & respond asap.
    09-17-08 10:48 AM
  11. Atrus's Avatar
    Good to know, thanks guys. Can you list such a 3rd party software? I am totally new to the BB thing, so all I know of is the BB default program and Opera.
    09-17-08 12:38 PM
  12. sniffs's Avatar
    I'm no BES admin so correct me if I'm wrong but...

    While BES has the options to log just about everything not every company enables these options when it comes to SMS, IMs, and other non exchange related stuff. They need at least BES 4.1 or higher to do this and the options are not enabled by default. There are a few reasons companies will not want to log all this data. Depending on a companys data retention policy (and how they communicate/enforce it) not keeping data like this can avoid legal liability issues. Also, with a huge company with that many BBs maintaining the DBs and that much information could be more effort then it's worth.

    I had similar concerns and still undecided what to do. I have a personal curve on our company BES. I asked our BES admin if we log SMS, IMs, and such and was told no. I don't manage the BES environment but have the access to look and check for myself to confirm. I'm not into anything that would get me in trouble if anyone was snooping but I don't like the idea of anyone being able to read what my wife might txt me in case they enable these settings BUT I'm required to be able to answer emails & respond asap.
    I never turned on any sms/phone logging on my BES and I open PhoneCallLog_20080917, PINLog_20080917 or SMSLog_20080917 and it's full of info. So I believe it's ON be default unless changed.

    Basically, unless the higher ups ask me to monitor you, I dont, but it's ALL logged.
    09-17-08 03:46 PM
  13. Atrus's Avatar
    It's all logged on my device though, until requested by the BES admin, correct?

    And, if so, it seems I can clear those logs before it's requested, right?
    09-17-08 04:01 PM
  14. sniffs's Avatar
    no.. that info is captured in real time.. If you delete it off your device, it's still on the BES.
    09-17-08 04:02 PM
  15. Bla1ze's Avatar
    BES + Privacy = None

    Plain and simple...they can pull/snoop/look at/do whatever they want when attached to a BES.
    All depends on how far the BES Admin wants to dig, if you have secrets to hide..best not to try and hide them on a BES enabled BB.
    09-17-08 04:04 PM
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