02-03-12 12:30 AM
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  1. T
    it depends on the carrier. No VZW phones have the carrier IQ, so their HTC devices would not have them. tmobile HTC devices and sprints i think do
    Thanks. Somebody sent me that video some guy made showing his 'droid logging keystrokes and passwords and stuff like that. I guess it was logging everything he was doing, but I dunno. Pretty scary stuff. His 'droid must have been on one of the other major carriers (Sprint, T-Mobile, maybe AT&T?). So I guess if I want a 'droid without Carrier IQ spyware baked into the os, I should get a Verizon 'droid? That's pretty limiting, IMO ...
    12-20-11 06:59 AM
  2. howarmat's Avatar
    i am not sure what the full list of phones that have or do not have it installed. There is an app you can download and run that will state the phone has this installed. You can probably download and run it on the demo phone before buying though to see
    12-20-11 07:08 AM
  3. T
    i am not sure what the full list of phones that have or do not have it installed. There is an app you can download and run that will state the phone has this installed. You can probably download and run it on the demo phone before buying though to see
    Thanks again. Yes, I think that would be a good idea even if I went the used device route. I don't know why they had to go and do that. I haven't even bought a 'droid yet, and already I feel betrayed. It's not like I keep government secrets or anything, but I like to feel like my passwords are secure, etc. Seems like a lot of work when buying a device, having to run a virus scan and all before buying.
    12-20-11 07:17 AM
  4. SugarMouth's Avatar
    Time to upgrade. Has any Blackberry users tried an Android phone? I'd like to know their thoughts if it's just as good as blackberry or do you suggest staying with blackberry?
    If you are a Google apps user, Android will be your preference. Many companies are switching to Google apps because of the cost savings over Microsoft and Android is the phone to use with it.

    Personally I switch between Android, WP7 and iOS a couple times a year. They all are good. BB to me is very dated.
    12-20-11 08:37 AM
  5. omniusovermind's Avatar
    IMO, it depends on what is important to you. I don't think you can be the email and messaging capabilities of a BlackBerry. On the other hand, the web browsing on Android is light years ahead of BlackBerry.

    I've had a BlackBerry for past 2 years. I picked up a Droid Eris back in January and used it for about 3 months. Ended up coming back to my BlackBerry. The main reason was my work email through BES. Android just doesn't do a good job of synchronizing with Exchange, yet.
    this was the 2nd post in this thread and was the best answer. For pure "fun/play" android is better. But I will say Marine One's advice looks way off the mark. The Android OS is most definitely not 'cutting edge'. It's quite glitchy, and has to be spread out among a **** load of differing device makers, many of whom like to frig it up on a routine basis. Oh and Marine? I've had two android phones so far: Atrix 4G and Sammy SG2. But like the above quote said, my data use is 95% browser type activities, not email and messaging. But at least I'm actually honest about the shortcomings of Android. Honest enough to tell the OP that if they are more into pure email/messaging/social networking they'd be much better off with a BB. Android's social networking apps (especially FB) and yahoo email apps have blown huge chunks for months now too. If you want more to surf the web, play games, and related type activities, than go either android or iPhail (sorry. I hate Apple )
    12-20-11 09:37 AM
  6. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    For my email needs (admittedly Google-based), BB is too underpowered for my needs.
    12-20-11 09:48 AM
  7. Rickroller's Avatar
    The Android OS is most definitely not 'cutting edge'. It's quite glitchy, and has to be spread out among a **** load of differing device makers, many of whom like to frig it up on a routine basis.
    What does multiple makers of Android have anything to do with the OS and whether it's "cutting edge" or not? If facial recognition, automated "camera-man" videos, lapdock capabilities, Beam, Live widgets, etc aren't what you call "cutting edge"..then I'd be curious to know what is.

    But at least I'm actually honest about the shortcomings of Android. Honest enough to tell the OP that if they are more into pure email/messaging/social networking they'd be much better off with a BB. Android's social networking apps (especially FB) and yahoo email apps have blown huge chunks for months now too.
    How is Android not great for social networking? Because they are touch screen? Have you ever even used the Friends widgets available from HTC or Go Launcher or Launcher Pro? They are a full screen of dedicated feeds from Twitter and/or Facebook. No need to even go thru an app. If that's not being connected, i'm again curious as to what is.

    If you want more to surf the web, play games, and related type activities, than go either android or iPhail (sorry. I hate Apple )
    I agree here. If you want to surf, play games, email, keep connected socially with widgets, stream flash content from your phone to your tv, use your phone as a laptop as well, voice to text, remote access PC's, video chat with friends or relatives at long distance, or other related type activities, then go android or iPhail (minus the "flash" part).
    12-20-11 09:51 AM
  8. E92Vancouver's Avatar
    this was the 2nd post in this thread and was the best answer. For pure "fun/play" android is better. But I will say Marine One's advice looks way off the mark. The Android OS is most definitely not 'cutting edge'. It's quite glitchy, and has to be spread out among a **** load of differing device makers, many of whom like to frig it up on a routine basis. Oh and Marine? I've had two android phones so far: Atrix 4G and Sammy SG2. But like the above quote said, my data use is 95% browser type activities, not email and messaging. But at least I'm actually honest about the shortcomings of Android. Honest enough to tell the OP that if they are more into pure email/messaging/social networking they'd be much better off with a BB. Android's social networking apps (especially FB) and yahoo email apps have blown huge chunks for months now too. If you want more to surf the web, play games, and related type activities, than go either android or iPhail (sorry. I hate Apple )
    It depends on the manufacturer regarding the glitchiness I guess. I have always had the Nexus phones (Google Nexus 1, Google Nexus S and now the Samsung Galaxy Nexus) and the OS has been way better than any Blackberry I have owned.

    The Blackberry OS is very unstable, slow and freezes a lot meaning frequent battery pulls at inopportune times.

    Just when you need your Blackberry to make an important call, answer and important email or look up something on the web, it freezes. You have to pull the battery and it takes 10 minutes to reboot like some Windows 3.1 computer.

    My Android OS on a Nexus is way more stable. On the odd occasion that I have had to reboot, the phone is up and running in a minute or less.

    I have spend hundreds of hours over the years rebuilding the OS on my Blackberries.

    Typically, I would install an app from an approved vendor on App World and their app would corrupt my OS on my Blackberry making it freeze every hour. I would then have to wipe my Blackberry, install a new OS (sometimes I had to use JVM when the phone was bricked) and then install my apps one at a time over a week, to find the app that wrecked my OS. Before each app was installed, you would have to back up and then, install the app and then wait a few days to see if the phone was stable before installing the next app. I know way too much about Blackberries because of this.

    Before I learned how to reinstall the OS on a Blackberry, I would just send them back on warranty claims. To RIM's credit, they exchanged by 9800 7 times. The phone was never defective. The OS was just corrupted from one of their approved apps.

    In the 2 years that I have owned Androids, guess how many OS reinstalls I have done? ZERO!! This OS is rock solid compared to a Blackberry.

    If you don't use apps ad run your Berry bone stock, you probably won't have any OS issues. But if you do use apps, the Berry OS is fragile and easily corrupted.

    Android Ice Cream Sandwich is awesome!!!
    Last edited by E92Vancouver; 12-20-11 at 09:56 AM.
    12-20-11 09:53 AM
  9. ubizmo's Avatar
    In terms of email, BB offers one thing that I find very, very useful:

    Delete Message?
    On Mailbox & Handheld
    Oh Handheld

    If you use this feature much, you'll find that you really have to change your email behaviors when you don't have it.

    I think the app issue is worth thinking about carefully. The sheer number of apps on Android vs BB isn't all that relevant, but there may be certain specific ones that you really want. One of the things that made me try Android was the fact that it has a full-featured Kindle app, with support for highlighting and annotation. The BB Kindle app doesn't have those features. Since I use Kindle a lot, that's important to me. Android and iOS win on that score; BB and WP7 lose.

    I suggest that you think about which verbs best describe what you do with your phone, other than talking. For me, they are reading, writing, and listening. Watching and playing are not even close to those first three. I'm not implying that Android devices are no good for reading, writing, and listening; far from it. But BBs are good for these things too. For watching and playing, Android has the advantage. It's just a question of whether it's an advantage that matters to you.
    12-20-11 09:54 AM
  10. avt123's Avatar
    Thanks again. Yes, I think that would be a good idea even if I went the used device route. I don't know why they had to go and do that. I haven't even bought a 'droid yet, and already I feel betrayed. It's not like I keep government secrets or anything, but I like to feel like my passwords are secure, etc. Seems like a lot of work when buying a device, having to run a virus scan and all before buying.
    Sprint is disabling CIQ.

    Sprint has 'disabled use' of Carrier IQ software | The Verge
    12-20-11 09:59 AM
  11. E92Vancouver's Avatar
    • I don't like multimedia (not on a phone anyway).

    • Skype is okay on my laptop, but I don't need it on handheld device.

    • Gmail is just one of my email accounts and works fine on my Bold 9650 non-camera.

    • I don't need a wifi hotspot because I have a USB modem from my wireless carrier.

    • I don't need Netflix on a handheld device. In fact I don't know why anyone would want to watch a movie on a handheld device.

    • Yes, voice capability on my handheld is important. I just can't deal with the bs of poor call quality, dropped calls, and reboots/freezes during calls. How are 'droids in that department?

    I guess at this point I'm still not sure what to do. The market share thingy could still sway me one way or the other. I just don't know which way yet. I do need something that doesn't have spyware baked into the os. Do 'droids come with that spyware I keep seeing mentioned in news reports called Carrier IQ? (I heard the htc ones do.)
    Skype is awesome when travelling. I buy a local prepaid SIM card in the host country and I can dial any number back home. I use Skype to call friends over seas. It is like VOIP. Free and works well.

    Gmail on a blackberry is crippled. It does not have 2 way sync like on an android. Mark a message read on your android and it is marked read, instantly on your PC. Archive or delete it on your android and the same happens instantly on your PC. Do these tasks on your PC and it happens instantly on your android. Saves a lot of time.

    Voice capability on the android is second to none. On par with a blackberry and far superior to an iphone.

    Carrier IQ is even on blackberries. Here RIM talks about carrier IQ on blackberries:

    http://j.mp/rRUQWL
    12-20-11 10:02 AM
  12. Rootbrian's Avatar
    It depends on the manufacturer regarding the glitchiness I guess. I have always had the Nexus phones (Google Nexus 1, Google Nexus S and now the Samsung Galaxy Nexus) and the OS has been way better than any Blackberry I have owned.

    The Blackberry OS is very unstable, slow and freezes a lot meaning frequent battery pulls at inopportune times.

    Just when you need your Blackberry to make an important call, answer and important email or look up something on the web, it freezes. You have to pull the battery and it takes 10 minutes to reboot like some Windows 3.1 computer.

    My Android OS on a Nexus is way more stable. On the odd occasion that I have had to reboot, the phone is up and running in a minute or less.

    I have spend hundreds of hours over the years rebuilding the OS on my Blackberries.

    Typically, I would install an app from an approved vendor on App World and their app would corrupt my OS on my Blackberry making it freeze every hour. I would then have to wipe my Blackberry, install a new OS (sometimes I had to use JVM when the phone was bricked) and then install my apps one at a time over a week, to find the app that wrecked my OS. Before each app was installed, you would have to back up and then, install the app and then wait a few days to see if the phone was stable before installing the next app. I know way too much about Blackberries because of this.

    Before I learned how to reinstall the OS on a Blackberry, I would just send them back on warranty claims. To RIM's credit, they exchanged by 9800 7 times. The phone was never defective. The OS was just corrupted from one of their approved apps.

    In the 2 years that I have owned Androids, guess how many OS reinstalls I have done? ZERO!! This OS is rock solid compared to a Blackberry.

    If you don't use apps ad run your Berry bone stock, you probably won't have any OS issues. But if you do use apps, the Berry OS is fragile and easily corrupted.

    Android Ice Cream Sandwich is awesome!!!
    My 9900 and 9700 both boot within 2 minutes, I haven't had to do very many battery pulls. I haven't ever had a corrupt OS issue at all, I wouldn't say the OS for blackberries are very fragile at all. Mine has never frozen once when I needed to make a phone call, send an SMS message or compose/read/reply to e-mail. Maybe you just never had a great experience or didn't bother to update the OS when updates were already available on other carriers. Boot time, 10 minutes like a windows 3.1 computer? No way.
    12-20-11 10:05 AM
  13. omniusovermind's Avatar
    What does multiple makers of Android have anything to do with the OS and whether it's "cutting edge" or not? If facial recognition, automated "camera-man" videos, lapdock capabilities, Beam, Live widgets, etc aren't what you call "cutting edge"..then I'd be curious to know what is.
    stop it. I've had two androids, and all of those features have always been sporadic in their reliability.

    How is Android not great for social networking? Because they are touch screen? Have you ever even used the Friends widgets available from HTC or Go Launcher or Launcher Pro? They are a full screen of dedicated feeds from Twitter and/or Facebook. No need to even go thru an app. If that's not being connected, i'm again curious as to what is.
    Both of those launchers sit on top of the 'face' that device makers shove down your throat, ie. Sense, Motoblur etc. Unless you root. But then now we're saying "oh btw you have to root your phone to be optimal". FB for android sucks. Just look at the reviews. Yahoo email app for android is absolute garbage as well. Skype has been an ongoing drama for android. and the list goes on.

    I think your expectations of quality communication software differs from mine. I don't use nor do I care about social networking or BBM so I use an android. But I don't kid myself about android's weaknesses.
    12-20-11 10:05 AM
  14. Rootbrian's Avatar
    Skype is awesome when travelling. I buy a local prepaid SIM card in the host country and I can dial any number back home. I use Skype to call friends over seas. It is like VOIP. Free and works well.

    Gmail on a blackberry is crippled. It does not have 2 way sync like on an android. Mark a message read on your android and it is marked read, instantly on your PC. Archive or delete it on your android and the same happens instantly on your PC. Do these tasks on your PC and it happens instantly on your android. Saves a lot of time.

    Voice capability on the android is second to none. On par with a blackberry and far superior to an iphone.

    Carrier IQ is even on blackberries. Here RIM talks about carrier IQ on blackberries:

    RIM Explains How to Remove Carrier IQ From BlackBerry Devices - Mobile and Wireless - News & Reviews - eWeek.com
    Wrong. Only a select few have carrier IQ in the My Account apps. It's quite easy to remove it. Crackberry made an article on how to do that.
    12-20-11 10:07 AM
  15. E92Vancouver's Avatar
    My 9900 and 9700 both boot within 2 minutes, I haven't had to do very many battery pulls. I haven't ever had a corrupt OS issue at all, I wouldn't say the OS for blackberries are very fragile at all. Mine has never frozen once when I needed to make a phone call, send an SMS message or compose/read/reply to e-mail. Maybe you just never had a great experience or didn't bother to update the OS when updates were already available on other carriers. Boot time, 10 minutes like a windows 3.1 computer? No way.
    I am a super user. I have lots of apps and install beta OS all the time.

    Like I said, if you don't like apps, the BB is wonderful. The more apps you have, the longer the boot up time.
    12-20-11 10:07 AM
  16. Rootbrian's Avatar
    I am a super user. I have lots of apps and install beta OS all the time.

    Like I said, if you don't like apps, the BB is wonderful. The more apps you have, the longer the boot up time.
    Nine apps installed and boot time is the same. I once had 20 installed last week before updating to another OS due to the SIM toolkit ghosting on me, not an issue, but I do use that to examine my usage from WIND without having to use a computer. The boot time was the same 2 minutes with those 20 apps loaded.
    12-20-11 10:10 AM
  17. omniusovermind's Avatar
    edited out because I'm tired and grumpy and mean this morning
    Last edited by omniusovermind; 12-20-11 at 10:21 AM.
    12-20-11 10:14 AM
  18. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    In terms of email, BB offers one thing that I find very, very useful:

    Delete Message?
    On Mailbox & Handheld
    Oh Handheld

    If you use this feature much, you'll find that you really have to change your email behaviors when you don't have it.

    I think the app issue is worth thinking about carefully. The sheer number of apps on Android vs BB isn't all that relevant, but there may be certain specific ones that you really want. One of the things that made me try Android was the fact that it has a full-featured Kindle app, with support for highlighting and annotation. The BB Kindle app doesn't have those features. Since I use Kindle a lot, that's important to me. Android and iOS win on that score; BB and WP7 lose.

    I suggest that you think about which verbs best describe what you do with your phone, other than talking. For me, they are reading, writing, and listening. Watching and playing are not even close to those first three. I'm not implying that Android devices are no good for reading, writing, and listening; far from it. But BBs are good for these things too. For watching and playing, Android has the advantage. It's just a question of whether it's an advantage that matters to you.
    Yep, feel ya on the email. I use Gmail because IMAP works for me. I prefer both email boxes to be perfectly mirrored. I can archive ones I want to keep but not see. I have access to all emails in each account. In essence, for me, it is better than the BB way, coz I can keep/delete like on BB, and more.

    I had to rethink it, because I burned a LOT of time trying to mimic the BB way, which is what I was used to... but I understand someone wanting to keep it the way they like.
    12-20-11 10:56 AM
  19. kilted thrower's Avatar
    Both of those launchers sit on top of the 'face' that device makers shove down your throat, ie. Sense, Motoblur etc. Skype has been an ongoing drama for android. and the list goes on.
    That's not true at all. If you install Go, ADW, Regina, or any other countless launchers, they replace your phone using the stock launcher. You don't have to root the phone at all. What you have to do is change defaults in the system and then you can choose which launcher you want your phone to use.

    I don't know about skype. I use Tango and it works beautifully.
    12-20-11 11:45 AM
  20. T
    I wonder how they're gonna do that? Will they have to recall all the Android devices with Carrier IQ???
    12-20-11 11:54 AM
  21. qbnkelt's Avatar
    edited out because I'm tired and grumpy and mean this morning
    you've got NO IDEA now many times I do what you just did!!!!
    omniusovermind likes this.
    12-20-11 11:59 AM
  22. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    I wonder how they're gonna do that? Will they have to recall all the Android devices with Carrier IQ???
    Not satisfactory. They need to release a patch that COMPLETELY removes it. Not enough to just "stop" using it.

    Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
    12-20-11 12:02 PM
  23. avt123's Avatar
    I wonder how they're gonna do that? Will they have to recall all the Android devices with Carrier IQ???
    No recall needed. Push out an update that does not have Carrier IQ and it is gone. Shouldn't be too hard. They can even use the same OS version they have but just remove CIQ.
    12-20-11 01:04 PM
  24. omniusovermind's Avatar
    That's not true at all. If you install Go, ADW, Regina, or any other countless launchers, they replace your phone using the stock launcher. You don't have to root the phone at all. What you have to do is change defaults in the system and then you can choose which launcher you want your phone to use.

    I don't know about skype. I use Tango and it works beautifully.
    it is true. if you don't root and freeze the services running on say, motoblur as an example, some of them still run along with your third party launcher. the only thing switching defaults does is replace most of the UI facade, not several of the background services built into the device branded launchers.
    12-20-11 09:10 PM
  25. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    ^^^^ Not sure about the scourge known as Motoblur, but I believe you can kill Sense and use, say, LauncherPro unrooted.

    I do use a Sense-based custom ROM, so I am used to seeing HTC stuff running.
    12-20-11 09:36 PM
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