1. the_boon's Avatar
    I may be in the minority here, but if Android improves it's gestures enough, I will no longer care about the PKB.

    I have found the VKB experience to be superior to PKB on BB10 for my text intensive use case (2-5K words a day).

    Unfortunately, on Android, I need the PKB for the shortcuts to offset the clunky nav keys.

    I'd be happy if BlackBerry just keeps refining the Hub and other tools aimed at business professionals whose work is similar to the "traditional" BlackBerry executive, because that's the user niche that Apple and Google have ignored.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    So then you may as well look into a Pixel 3 or 3a because they're gonna be getting (if not already) Android Q which is rumored to have expanded on the gestures that were introduced with P, and they're the smallest and (for 3a the lightest) phones I can think of, and guarantee of 3 years update which I believe is something you'd care about.
    Slap on the BB VKB and you should be good to go.

    That and your KEYone would make a nice combo.
    06-20-19 10:05 AM
  2. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    So then you may as well look into a Pixel 3 or 3a because they're gonna be getting (if not already) Android Q which is rumored to have expanded on the gestures that were introduced with P, and they're the smallest and (for 3a the lightest) phones I can think of, and guarantee of 3 years update which I believe is something you'd care about.
    Slap on the BB VKB and you should be good to go.

    That and your KEYone would make a nice combo.
    I'm not yet convinced Google's gestures will match BB10 for usability. Beyond that, I'm probably not likely to get another Android phone, period. Both Android and iOS have let me down too often for me to want either, but I think I hate the usability compromises on Apple less than I hate the privacy compromises on Android.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    06-20-19 10:10 AM
  3. the_boon's Avatar
    I'm not yet convinced Google's gestures will match BB10 for usability. Beyond that, I'm probably not likely to get another Android phone, period. Both Android and iOS have let me down too often for me to want either, but I think I hate the usability compromises on Apple less than I hate the privacy compromises on Android.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    So when January comes, you'll retire that Z10 for... an iPhone SE?
    That phone is already almost 4 years old and by then it'll have 1 year and 3 months worth of updates.
    But it's the only compact iPhone in existence.

    Oh well, at least there's this: (conite's favorite )
    https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...2F392277560013
    06-20-19 10:17 AM
  4. conite's Avatar
    So when January comes, you'll retire that Z10 for... an iPhone SE?
    That phone is already almost 4 years old and by then it'll have 1 year and 3 months worth of updates.
    But it's the only compact iPhone in existence.

    Oh well, at least there's this: (conite's favorite )
    https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...2F392277560013
    Barf.
    the_boon likes this.
    06-20-19 10:35 AM
  5. the_boon's Avatar
    Barf.
    Having personally owned one of these, if you have an iPhone SE it's a must-have.
    That being said, the key resistance is a bit too high so it takes more effort than any other smartphone keyboard I've used, and the clickiness is SO freaking loud that it makes the KEY2 spacebar sound like a stealth button. Definitely not sleeping-wife approved.

    I do like the key sculpting which is a straight rip-off of the Q10/Classic, which is probably why Chen jumped on that lawsuit.
    I can't wrap my head around why TCL didn't also copy that design for the LE since its not capacitive but it still has a nice keyboard nonetheless.
    06-20-19 11:09 AM
  6. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    So when January comes, you'll retire that Z10 for... an iPhone SE?
    That phone is already almost 4 years old and by then it'll have 1 year and 3 months worth of updates.
    But it's the only compact iPhone in existence.

    Oh well, at least there's this: (conite's favorite )
    https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...2F392277560013
    I think the answer is, "none of the above."

    I'm transitioning as much as possible to a 12.5 inch Linux laptop, which I carry everwhere. If the Librem 5 phone is decent, I'll throw $700 bucks at that to see how it works for email.

    If I have to carry an iOS or Android device for the occasional app or message, it will be something small and cheap, because I'll use it for only a few minutes a day. It will be a used device, and I won't even bother loading my personal information on it, so no paid apps, cloud storage, etc. I'll use a prepaid SIM card with an alias so that even my carrier doesn't know who I am.

    That may not be a solution for others, but it's working out well for me.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    06-20-19 11:11 AM
  7. cgk's Avatar
    It could be a variety of things. Perhaps BlackBerry just controls too many patents and design elements (doubt it, but possible) where developing a worthwhile PKB product has costs that outweigh the benefits for other OEMs.
    People (well mainly north Americans) forget that Nokia in its E range had plenty of keyboard phones and in many markets outsold BlackBerry. I guess that either Microsoft or HMD own these patents.

    Similar I have a really vague recollection that Motorola (and this Lenovo) can put a phone with a basically identical keyboard to a BlackBerry due to some contractual arrangement.

    The reason they dont is that it is a waste of resources.
    chain13 likes this.
    06-20-19 03:48 PM
  8. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Motorola has/(had?) a cross-licensing agreement with BB, which allowed Moto to use BB's keyboard patents. I don't know the status of that - Google may have those rights now, or Lenovo, or they may have expired.
    06-22-19 12:16 PM
  9. the_boon's Avatar
    Motorola has/(had?) a cross-licensing agreement with BB, which allowed Moto to use BB's keyboard patents. I don't know the status of that - Google may have those rights now, or Lenovo, or they may have expired.
    That's pretty cool, never knew that
    06-22-19 09:17 PM
  10. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    That's pretty cool, never knew that
    Moto had a LOT of mobile phone patents, so a cross-licensing agreement meant that they didn't have to fight with each other about what the other's patents were worth. They each got to use the other's patents. But, again, I don't know if that agreement has expired, was transferred, or what.
    06-22-19 09:49 PM
  11. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    These have a familiar look?

    Android One on BBMo devices-motorola-defy-pro1.jpg

    Android One on BBMo devices-mot-q9-2.jpg



    Android One on BBMo devices-cp_aa_99.jpg

    I had one of these, which was a Nextel "walkie talkie" phone, as a work phone, for a while. Definitely a BB-style PKB.
    06-22-19 09:56 PM
  12. the_boon's Avatar
    These have a familiar look?

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    I had one of these, which was a Nextel "walkie talkie" phone, as a work phone, for a while. Definitely a BB-style PKB.
    That first one definitely has a lot of "Bold" vibes to it.

    Even the spacebar and that signature space symbol on it.
    06-23-19 12:15 AM
  13. chain13's Avatar
    People (well mainly north Americans) forget that Nokia in its E range had plenty of keyboard phones and in many markets outsold BlackBerry. I guess that either Microsoft or HMD own these patents.

    Similar I have a really vague recollection that Motorola (and this Lenovo) can put a phone with a basically identical keyboard to a BlackBerry due to some contractual arrangement.

    The reason they dont is that it is a waste of resources.
    E71 was the last qwerty pkb phone I've ever had. The keyboard is soft with taller alphabet keys so comfort for typing, I prefer the this kb over any cheap clicky feel offer by BB qwerty back then. Also those tool buttons are more specific and useful compared to BB toolbelt. I remember using that calendar button just to made a date plan instead of business appointment Android One on BBMo devices-2682_ll_1.jpeg
    06-23-19 01:49 AM
  14. the_boon's Avatar
    E71 was the last qwerty pkb phone I've ever had. The keyboard is soft with taller alphabet keys so comfort for typing, I prefer the this kb over any cheap clicky feel offer by BB qwerty back then. Also those tool buttons are more specific and useful compared to BB toolbelt. I remember using that calendar button just to made a date plan instead of business appointment Click image for larger version. 

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    This E71 was the only PKB device that didn't look like a cheap Bold 9900 rip off.
    Can't say the same about the JioPhone 2...
    chain13 likes this.
    06-23-19 02:24 AM
  15. cgk's Avatar
    I had the E71 for the same reason - the blackberry just seemed like an inferior device and I could type all day on it.
    Laura Knotek and chain13 like this.
    06-23-19 03:02 AM
  16. the_boon's Avatar
    I had the E71 for the same reason - the blackberry just seemed like an inferior device and I could type all day on it.
    The key sculpting doesn't look nearly as aggressive on that E71 as on the Classic for example.
    06-23-19 08:16 AM
  17. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    This E71 was the only PKB device that didn't look like a cheap Bold 9900 rip off.
    Can't say the same about the JioPhone 2...
    Since the E71 came out long before the 9900, it was designed to appear more premium than Curve or 9000 at time. Still I preferred the 9000 with BBOS and BIS over Windows Mobile OS then. Email and battery life were far superior then...
    06-24-19 07:43 AM
  18. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Since the E71 came out long before the 9900, it was designed to appear more premium than Curve or 9000 at time. Still I preferred the 9000 with BBOS and BIS over Windows Mobile OS then. Email and battery life were far superior then...
    BIS is what made BlackBerry the winner that it was. Active Sync is what killed BlackBerry's advantage.

    I'd have kept my Palm Treo (hardware and software) over any BlackBerry... if Active Sync had been around at that point. Again... hard to believe that BlackBerry didn't buy Palm and their ready made mobile OS in 2010. Be interesting to know the development cost of BB10 for the next three or four years....
    06-24-19 08:23 AM
  19. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    BIS is what made BlackBerry the winner that it was. Active Sync is what killed BlackBerry's advantage.

    I'd have kept my Palm Treo (hardware and software) over any BlackBerry... if Active Sync had been around at that point. Again... hard to believe that BlackBerry didn't buy Palm and their ready made mobile OS in 2010. Be interesting to know the development cost of BB10 for the next three or four years....
    With the way the mobile spark played out, I sometimes wonder if they ever really expected BB10 to do anything beyond help string out the BBOS and BIS revenue stream. If they had just hired Chen 18-24 months earlier...

    That’s partly tongue in cheek and part serious.
    06-24-19 11:34 AM
  20. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    With the way the mobile spark played out, I sometimes wonder if they ever really expected BB10 to do anything beyond help string out the BBOS and BIS revenue stream. If they had just hired Chen 18-24 months earlier...

    That’s partly tongue in cheek and part serious.
    Yeah I doubt Mike or Jim were clueless about what really generated BlackBerry's revenues... they were clueless on how to move forward without it.
    06-24-19 11:52 AM
  21. Laura Knotek's Avatar
    Since the E71 came out long before the 9900, it was designed to appear more premium than Curve or 9000 at time. Still I preferred the 9000 with BBOS and BIS over Windows Mobile OS then. Email and battery life were far superior then...
    The E71 was a Symbian device, not a Windows Mobile device.

    When I switched from the E71 to the 9000, I immediately noticed the differences in the camera moreso than in the keyboard.
    elfabio80 and chain13 like this.
    06-24-19 11:52 AM
  22. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    The E71 was a Symbian device, not a Windows Mobile device.

    When I switched from the E71 to the 9000, I immediately noticed the differences in the camera moreso than in the keyboard.
    You are correct. I didn’t write complete thoughts. My spouse was the Nokia and Palm hardware fan at time and I had the BlackBerry and Windows preference. It was the “whatever AT&T sold Windows devices” until about 2010 or so. I just remember thinking how nice the E71 felt but no BIS available. Whatever AT&T Windows devices I had, I remember I was able to add some AT&T BIS package to it.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    06-24-19 01:15 PM
  23. chain13's Avatar
    This E71 was the only PKB device that didn't look like a cheap Bold 9900 rip off.
    Can't say the same about the JioPhone 2...
    True. For me, every blackberries back then other than bold are all just cheap clicky plastic.
    I had the E71 for the same reason - the blackberry just seemed like an inferior device and I could type all day on it.
    After that, nokia start making more qwerty phone, including in their xpressmusic line. Seriously here in Indonesia there was a time while qwerty phones are like slabs these days, before small cheap androids started taking over (galaxy mini, xperia mini, X8 etc).

    Android One on BBMo devices-images.jpeg.jpeg
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    07-05-19 09:12 AM
  24. the_boon's Avatar
    True. For me, every blackberries back then other than bold are all just cheap clicky plastic. After that, nokia start making more qwerty phone, including in their xpressmusic line. Seriously here in Indonesia there was a time while qwerty phones are like slabs these days, before small cheap androids started taking over (galaxy mini, xperia mini, X8 etc).

    Click image for larger version. 

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    It's funny that those two phones here looked like regular dumb feature phones at first glance but hid a full QWERTY underneath.

    However, the keys look awfully flat without any sculpting which would make typing accurately kind of difficult imo. Might as well type on a VKB
    07-05-19 09:54 AM
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